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FAA worker says hijacked jetliners almost collided before striking World Trade Center
The Telegraph (online) ^ | 09/13/2001 | Albert McKeon

Posted on 12/10/2001 11:21:41 AM PST by GummyIII


The Telegraph Online


Staff photo by Dean Shalhoup
Several Nashua police officers block the entrance to the Boston Air Traffic Control Center on Northeastern Boulevard in Nashua Tuesday morning where they rushed shortly after two passenger aircraft that departed from Boston crashed into the World Trade Center buildings in New York.

FAA worker says hijacked jetliners almost collided before striking World Trade Center
Thursday, September 13, 2001
By ALBERT McKEON, Telegraph Staff , mckeona@telegraph-nh.com


Story Index
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The two hijacked jets that sliced into the World Trade Center nearly crashed into each other before reaching New York City, according to a Federal Aviation Administration employee who works in the Nashua control facility.

FAA air traffic controllers in Nashua have learned through discussions with other controllers that an F-16 fighter stayed in hot pursuit of another hijacked commercial airliner until it crashed in Pennsylvania, said the employee, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

By 10:30 a.m. on Tuesday, the military had taken control of U.S. airspace, the employee said. The jet crashed into a field at 10:37 a.m.

The incidents fell in line with a handful of incredible and unprecedented events that unfolded in America on Tuesday, said the employee, who worked in the control center that fateful morning. The center is one of 20 FAA facilities that monitor long-distance flights once they leave airports.

The morning's surreal moments included a controller, who had just arrived for work, discovering that his wife's American Airline flight was involved in the day of terror, the employee said.

Controllers never expected that the terrorists who hijacked the plane had their sights set on the north tower of the World Trade Center, the employee said.

Even as the tower burned, controllers still hadn't concluded that another hijacked plane - United Airlines Flight 175 - would slam into the other New York skyscraper, the employee said.

The terrorists, however, nearly had their plans dashed when the two planes almost collided outside the city, the employee said. "The two aircraft got too close to each other down by Stewart" International Airport in New Windsor, N.Y., the employee said.

Controllers have also learned that an F-16 fighter closely pursued hijacked United Airlines Flight 93 until it crashed in southwestern Pennsylvania, the employee said.

Although controllers don't have complete details of the Air Force's chase of the Boeing 757, they have learned the F-16 made 360-degree turns to remain close to the commercial jet, the employee said.

"He must've seen the whole thing," the employee said of the F-16 pilot's view of Flight 93's crash.

One air traffic controller - with the help of an assistant - monitored the flight patterns of the two jets that toppled the World Trade Center, the employee said. He directed American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175 - both Boeing 767 jets that had Boston to Los Angeles routes, the employee said.

The same controller handled Egypt Air Flight 990 when it crashed off the coast of Massachusetts in 1999, the employee said. Hijackers gained control of American Airlines Flight 11 around Gardner, Mass., the employee said. "American was just flying around, doing what it wanted," the employee said of the jet's approach to New York.

United Airlines Flight 175 remained in the hands of its pilots until Albany, N.Y., the employee said. Terrorists apparently seized United Airlines Flight 93 late in its interrupted route, the employee said.

The controller in charge of flights 11 and 175 noticed the American Airlines plane had encountered difficulties when its transponder - the device that sends an electrical radar pulse to air traffic control centers - shut off, the employee said. At that point, the plane veered from its course west, the employee said.

Soon after, the controller realized a hijacker stood in the cockpit when the plane's captain - John Ogonowski of Dracut, Mass. - turned on his microphone, the employee said. Ogonowski activated the microphone so the FAA could hear the terrorists' threats, the employee said.

The controller heard someone instruct, "'Nobody do anything stupid'" and no one would get hurt, the employee said. After that, the controller heard no more conversations, the employee said.

"That's all that was heard," the employee said. When it became apparent the plane had fallen into the hands of hijackers, a third controller began helping the controller and his assistant, a procedure followed during all hijackings, the employee said. FAA controllers also notified concerned government organizations such as the military, the employee said.

Then, controllers shut down all other air traffic quickly, the employee said.

But many of the aircraft didn't immediately answer FAA calls, the employee said.

Planes flying through the Nashua center's airspace on their way to Georgia or Florida were told to land at other airports and avoid the airspace of the hijacked flights, the employee said.

The controller spoke with United Airlines Flight 175 for quite some time after terrorists took command of American Airlines Flight 11, the employee said. FAA controllers never expected Flight 175 to hit the second World Trade Center tower because of that sustained contact with the crew, the employee said.

"It's not in anyone's mind they're hitting a target," the employee said. "When somebody takes a plane over, they try to negotiate a release with money," the employee said.

Many controllers also watched events unfold on the control center's television, the employee said.

"After the first plane hit, nobody imagined it would happen again," the employee said. "We all thought that was it. It totally caught everybody off guard."

The controller is "pretty disturbed" that he lost both planes, the employee said. He handled both flights because they shared similar routes on their intended journey to Los Angeles, the employee said.

Other controllers will handle the disasters in other ways, the employee said.

But controllers can feel rather helpless after such a tragedy because they "are just a voice in the air," the employee said. "You can't do anything."

Controllers will rally around each other, the employee said. Controllers are very supportive of one another, the employee said.

They are "like family - sitting shoulder to shoulder 40 hours a week," the employee said.

The employee wouldn't identify the controller who lost his wife, or her name.

She was a businesswoman who had just missed her flight the night before, the employee said.

"We're waiting to see what happens next," the employee said of the country's concern about the potential of more terrorist air attacks. "It pretty much opens the door to a bunch of stuff going on," the employee said of the terrorists' use of planes as weapons.

Albert McKeon can be reached at 249-3339.


Content © 2001 Telegraph Publishing Company, Nashua, New Hampshire.
Software © 1998-2001 1up! Software, All Rights Reserved


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
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I cannot find this article on FR, so I believe it has not been posted here. I realize this is an old article, but something jumped out at me while reading this.

FAA air traffic controllers in Nashua have learned through discussions with other controllers that an F-16 fighter stayed in hot pursuit of another hijacked commercial airliner until it crashed in Pennsylvania, said the employee, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

1 posted on 12/10/2001 11:21:41 AM PST by GummyIII (robinsmith43@earthlink.net)
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To: GummyIII
Well, it's new to me. I was out of the ocuntry when this happened and had not heard that the two airliners that hit the WTC nearly collided with each other.
2 posted on 12/10/2001 11:26:16 AM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: GummyIII
Was the FAA employee Linda Daschle?
3 posted on 12/10/2001 11:31:00 AM PST by NC Conservative
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Wow, do I hear "Its a Small World Afterall" playing in the backgroud?(though it does sound a bit tinny)
4 posted on 12/10/2001 11:43:44 AM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Diddle E. Squat
So you find something amusing about this catastrophy?
5 posted on 12/10/2001 12:18:01 PM PST by OldFriend
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To: GummyIII
This is the worst written news article I have read in a long time. It skips around from subject to subject and back again. Is it talking about the 2 planes into the towers or the crash in Penn.? Sometimes you don't know when you start reading the sentence. That's ridiculous.
6 posted on 12/10/2001 12:21:46 PM PST by 1L
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To: GummyIII
Although controllers don't have complete details of the Air Force's chase of the Boeing 757, they have learned the F-16 made 360-degree turns to remain close to the commercial jet, the employee said.
What's the cruising speeds of a 757 vs that of an F16? I would imagine that the 757 is a lot slower than an F16, is that why it had to make a lot of turns to stay in the same area?
7 posted on 12/10/2001 1:27:48 PM PST by lelio
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To: lelio
What's the cruising speeds of a 757 vs that of an F16? I would imagine that the 757 is a lot slower than an F16, is that why it had to make a lot of turns to stay in the same area?

Makes sense to me.... I'm asking questions. I don't have the answers. Have you seen anything else (articles, etc.) that talk about the F-16 in relation to Flight 93?

8 posted on 12/10/2001 3:53:09 PM PST by GummyIII
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To: 1L
This is the worst written news article I have read in a long time. It skips around from subject to subject and back again. Is it talking about the 2 planes into the towers or the crash in Penn.? Sometimes you don't know when you start reading the sentence. That's ridiculous.

Granted, you have to read closely, but I had no problem discerning which was which. There are really two stories in one, here. You've got to remember this is the local paper in the area where the controllers were that had to deal with this. It's not the NY Times. Secondly, it's what is contained in the article that interests me. Have you heard of an F-16 tailing/staying with Flight 93 anywhere else? If so, I'd appreciate a lead.

9 posted on 12/10/2001 3:56:38 PM PST by GummyIII
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To: GummyIII
Don't forget all the Brit papers are tabloids.
10 posted on 12/10/2001 3:58:21 PM PST by BunnySlippers
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To: GummyIII
...an F-16 fighter stayed in hot pursuit of another hijacked commercial airliner until it crashed in Pennsylvania...

.Not to take anything away from the passengers that crashed the United Flight in Pennsylvania but I wonder if the F-16 actually shot the United 757 down. Not that this would make a difference because we know the passengers did attack the hijackers and either way a larger catastrophe was averted.

By doing this the Fed's create American heroes while not dirtying their hands by shooting down a civilian airliner.

11 posted on 12/10/2001 4:10:58 PM PST by Austim
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To: BunnySlippers
Don't forget all the Brit papers are tabloids.

Maybe so, but since this paper is in NH.....

12 posted on 12/10/2001 4:11:39 PM PST by GummyIII
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To: Austim
Maybe so...

If it was your loved one on that plane....would you want to know exactly what brought it down?

13 posted on 12/10/2001 4:12:50 PM PST by GummyIII
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: dc hole
Flight 93 Timeline of Events
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Flight 93 Timeline

The following timeline is for United Airlines flight 93, scheduled to fly from Newark International Airport to San Francisco. The flight crashed in Pennsylvania.

This Pittsburgh Post Gazette has added a great timeline on 10/29/01 here. Read it.

--8:42 a.m.: United Airlines flight 93 takes off from Newark International Airport. (40 minute delay from schedule 8:02)

--9:16 a.m.: FAA informs NORAD that United Airlines flight 93 may have been hijacked. (reported as 9:20 am in Pittsburgh Post Gazette. 2 Airliners have crashed - Fighters have been scrambled already... the Air Force has 55 minutes to get there before Flight 93 goes down)

-- 9:30 a.m., six minutes after receiving their orders from the
defense sector, code-named Huntress, three F-16's were airborne, according to the Norad timeline.

Then the pilots received the most surreal order of the awful
morning. "A person came on the radio," General Haugen said, "and identified themselves as being with the Secret Service and he said, `I want you to protect the White House at all costs.' "
Tuesday October 16 12:06 AM EDT
'We Have Some Planes,' Hijacker Told Controller
By MATTHEW L. WALD with KEVIN SACK The New York Times

--9:35 a.m.: Flight 93 files a new flight plan, reverses course and heads towards Washington D.C. - presumably the White House.

Comment: This is widely reported - "ABCNEWS has learned that shortly before the plane changed directions, someone in the cockpit radioed in and asked the FAA for a new flight plan, with a final destination of Washington." This would have been a HUGE red flag - a problem aircraft diverts to the nearest field. I think the Pilot did this to signal Air Traffic Control.

--9:40 a.m.: Transponder signal from United flight 93 ceases and radar contact is lost. (still got 1/2 hour to get there)

--9:58 a.m. Todd Beamer's last call ends and fight begins. All cell calls end near this time.

--10:02 a.m.: After a review of radar tapes, a radar signal is detected near Shanksville, Pennsylvania.

-- 10:04 a.m. Johnstown-Cambria County Airport reports the plane is 15 miles south ad coming fast.

--10:06 a.m. Flight 93 Crashes near Shanksville, 124 miles from Washington D.C. 15 to 20 minutes away at 500mph. 7 to 10 minutes from D.C. at 1000mph. Remember, F-16 top speed is 1800mph and we had 3 F-16's aloft at 9:30am.

Comment: Do you still think there wasn't time to get a Fighter there? Hello?? Listen to what a former Pentagon Air Traffic Controller says...

All those years ago when I was in the Pentagon, this wouldn't have happened. ATC Radar images were (and are) available in the understructures of the Pentagon, and any commercial flight within 300 miles of DC that made an abrupt course change toward Washington, turned off their transponder, and refused to communicate with ATC, would have been intercepted at supersonic speeds within a max of 9 minutes by a Fighter out of Andrews. Period. Why these planes weren't, baffles me. If we could get fighters off the ground in 2 minutes then, we could now.

Full Official Timeline
http://europe.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.hijack.warning/
The informed defense officials laid out a timeline of the events surrounding the series of terrorist attacks as follows: (Times are EDT and reflect actual, rather than scheduled departure times of flights.)

--7:59 a.m.: American Airlines flight 11 takes off from Boston's Logan International Airport.

--8:14 a.m.: United Airlines flight 175 takes off from Boston's Logan International Airport.

--8:20 a.m.: American Airlines flight 11 stops transmitting IFF beacon signal while over the Hudson River.

--8:20 a.m.: American Airlines flight 77 departs Dulles International Airport near Washington.

--8:38 a.m.: Boston air traffic center notifies NORAD that American Airlines flight 11 has been hijacked.

--8:43 a.m.: FAA notifies NORAD that United Airlines flight 175 has been hijacked.

--8:44 a.m.: Otis Air National Guard Base in Mass. orders to fighters scrambled.

--8:46 a.m.: American Airlines flight 11 strikes the World Trade Center's north tower.

--8:47 a.m.: NORAD informed of the plane striking the World Trade Center.

--8:50 a.m.: United Airlines flight 175 deviates from its assigned flight path.

--8:52 a.m.: Two F-15 Eagles take off from Otis ANG Base in effort to intercept hijacked plane(s) after first plane has struck the World Trade Center.

--9:02 a.m.: United Airlines flight 175 strikes the World Trade Center's south tower (F-15 fighter jets from Otis ANG Base are still 70 miles away.)

--9:25 a.m.: FAA notifies NORAD that United flight 77 may have been hijacked.

--9:27 a.m.: (approximate time) NORAD orders jets scrambled from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia to head to intercept United Airlines flight 77.

--9:35 a.m.: Three F-16 Fighting Falcons take off from Langley AFB headed toward Washington area.

--9:37 a.m.: American Airlines flight 77 is lost from radar screens.

--9:38 a.m.: American Airlines flight 77 strikes the Pentagon.

--9:49 a.m.: F-16 fighter jets arrive over Washington, D.C. to perform Combat Air Patrol (CAP) over city. (The fighters broke the sound barrier and traveled supersonic at 720 knots to Washington, making the approximately 130 miles in 14 minutes.)

Comment: Would we really fly circles over D.C.? What is the AWACS for? I thought it tracked the skies and directed fighters. This was an easy mission for them. And would we really only have 3 (count 'em three) F-16's in the air. And what the hell happened to the F-15's? Could there have been 2 fighters over D.C. and the 3rd sent to intercept Flight 93?

An eyewitness of a friend of mine said he saw F-16's fly over the Pentagon 10 seconds after the crash. This jives with the NY Times article that has 3 F-16's launched at 9:30, 6 minutes after given the orders to scramble. That still seems way too late for me. You'd think they would have scrambled all available fighters much sooner.

In fact, Cheney says they knew of the 3rd Airliner threat not long after Airliner 2 crashed (9:02am). They had given the OK to fire around 9:15 according to Cheney in the Meet the Press interview, but the fighters weren't launched at that time? WTF?

Something to think about - after the incredible intelligence and military failure of Pearl Harbor heads rolled... but in these honorable times what happens? Bush says "Good Job"!

Article found here.

15 posted on 12/10/2001 4:18:52 PM PST by GummyIII
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To: dc hole
Can you point me to the article where I can read about the explosions Beamer mentioned?
16 posted on 12/10/2001 4:19:53 PM PST by GummyIII
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To: GummyIII
If it was your loved one on that plane....would you want to know exactly what brought it down?

I am not sure it would make a difference what brought the plane down. Unfortunately, the people who boarded the four planes on 9/11 had no chance of survival. However, I can see many reasons why the Government would want us to believe that good citizens prevented a larger disaster while not having to come out and say we did it. Moreover, the F-16 pilot would not have to go on Larry King to explain how it felt to shoot down a civilian airliner.

17 posted on 12/10/2001 4:25:45 PM PST by Austim
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To: GummyIII
I think this article, in large part, is BS ... the two aircraft controlled by terrorists hit WTC 1&2 approximately 20 minutes apart. Their plotted course from Boston to NYC didn't converge at any point ... except at the southern tip of Manhatten when they crashed into the WTC complex, once again, as I already pointed out ... twenty minutes apart.
18 posted on 12/10/2001 4:36:24 PM PST by BluH2o
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To: All
Secondary Debris Field

Excerpt from article: The NTSB theory is that a lot of lightweight paperlike material survived the crash fireball and escaped the 35 foot deep, wet mud crash site and floated at 10 mph 2 - 8 miles over more wet, muddy fields. And how did clothing, books and large engine parts blow there again? And is there stuff 2 to 8 miles away at the Pentagon crash? Or another crash you can think of? Oh yea, at Lockerbie and Flight 800 there was (both had in-air explosions).

19 posted on 12/10/2001 4:38:17 PM PST by GummyIII
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To: BluH2o
Did you read my comment after the article...that's not the part of the article I find interesting. Read the other linked articles, also.
20 posted on 12/10/2001 4:40:35 PM PST by GummyIII
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