Posted on 12/11/2001 5:08:32 AM PST by tom paine 2
Edited on 09/03/2002 4:49:37 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
WASHINGTON -- President Bush's Social Security Commission is expected Tuesday to recommend three options for creating personal accounts for American workers in the retirement system, according to a draft final report from the panel.
At least two of the options would entail cuts in future benefits for Americans as the commission, named by Bush to recommend an overhaul of the program, said it wanted to suggest ways to forestall a projected insolvency in 2038.
I'm also very leery of "privatization" plans that seem to be little more than handouts to the financial services industry.
Bottom line: The wealthy want to STEAL your Social Security taxes.
The ONLY question you should ask is: How much in Social Security benefits will you lose for each dollar you put into a private account?
Huh? What do you mean?
I agree that the time is now to reform Social Security before I get left holding the chain letter with no more suckers to send it on to. I don't want to be at the bottom of this ponzi scheme when it all comes crashing down. And that's exactly where I'm going to end up, if the current system is allowed to go on, without significant change.
I've said it before, and I'll make this pledge again here: I'll forfeit every last dime I've paid into this ridiculous, paternalistic scheme, as long as the government lets me keep and invest/spend the 6.2% they currently confiscate before I even see it, so that they can "invest for my retirement future". I'll even leave the other 6.2% my employer is forced to "contribute".
How is it "stealing" if I get to direct the investment of my income into profitable securities and other investment vehicles? How is it "stealing" when the historical return (measured over decades) dwarfes the pathetic "return" that I can reasonably expect from government IOU's?
Finally, just how the hell is it "stealing" for me to have the use and control of MY F-ING MONEY THAT I'VE EARNED FROM THE SWEAT OF MY F-ING BROW now, when I might direct those funds into vehicles that demonstrate a far greater propensity to enable me to retire OR to purchase braces for my kids? Hmmmmmmmm?
Your statist paternalism is showing, and its nauseating.
Nearly SEVEN MILLION government employees pay no Social Security taxes and get no Social Security benefits based on the time they worked for government. This is unjust! We need to help these peole! We need to give them the benefit of Social Security! Are you with me? Do you want to help our suffering civil servants? We need to take action today to see those who work for we, the public, are not neglected and have the same pensions the rest of society does.
That's it, huh? That's the only question you think is worth asking?
How about: do you prefer 80% payroll taxes or dramatically slashing social security "benefits" when the boomer crowd retires?
How about: which is a better investment, government IOU's or mutual funds, blue chip securities, and municipal bond issues?
How about: do you think YOU are a better judge of the best use of your income, or should the government TELL you that you WILL set aside 6.2% of your income (11%+ if you take into account your employer "contribution", and you should)?
How about: what impact do you think it would have on the economy to have all of that money flowing into the market, rather than disappearing into the general budget of the federal government for use in funding porkbarrel projects in congressional districts or "midnight basketball" pilot projects?
The left hasn't had an original thought in decades. Their abject intellectual bankruptcy is most apparent when discussing this topic.
It's STEALING if you have to give up an inordinate amount of Social Security benefits for each dollar you put into a private plan.
Before you join the "privatization of Social Security" parade, read and understand all the parameters of the plan.
As Phineas Taylor Barnum said: "There's a sucker born every minute."
You got that right, pal. And right now, each of us under the age of 40 is a "sucker" in the extreme.
You left of center types don't know anymore than the rest of us about the "fine print" of any plan, because there isn't one yet. But, straight out of the box, we find you here, and elsewhere, issuing dire warnings about reductions in benefits. Here this, dullard: we understand full well that our "benefits" are going to be slashed if we do nothing and keep the system as is.
Why do you reflexively oppose significant reform that harnesses the power of the free market to give everybody the retirement investment choices currently most fully exploited by only the wealthy in our society?
The people I WANT brought into Social Security are our congress critters. Then you'd see real reform!
BTW, when I saw Tuco's name in the posts, I had to stop by. At least he's consistent. I just wish I could opt out of the whole damn system. If I make bad decisions, then I make bad decisions, and work part-time at Luby's instead of retiring at age 70 or so. I'm 47, with a kid due in March, so I won't be able to retire anyway! But I do not want my kids and grandkids to pay confiscatory payroll taxes on top of confiscatory income taxes just to pay for my generation's retirement!
AARP, please don't mail me anything, because I'm not buying into your BS.
simply this -- a number of the "reform" plans feature FORCING payroll contributions into 401k type accounts, which naturally will be managed by the Merrills, Travellers, and Fidelities of the world. Maybe I don't want to subsidize these jerks.
It's time this Ponzi scheme ended, I agree. I just don't want it turned into a fee-generating cash cow.
Who we?
Why should the benefits be slashed?
For a number of reasons, I'm with you on this 100%.
The ONLY question you should ask is: How much in Social Security benefits will you lose for each dollar you put into a private account?
What the heck are you talking about?
I've been paying into SS for some 25 years now. I've been contributing 6% (pe-tax) of my annual salary, with my employer contributing .66 on the dollar to a 401K for about 7 years now. I control the mix of that 401K plan - Stocks, Bonds, Money Markets.... Guess wich account has more money in it, and which one I will depend on for my retirement?
Moving SS into a private account isn't stealing a damn thing. In fact it's preventing theft from the FedGov. If SS had been set up that way from the begining, we wouldn't be worrying about it being insolvent in 2038.
Of course benefits will be slashed if nothing is done to the current ponzi nature of this government paternalistic scheme. Everybody, from Wellstone to Cheney understands this to be the case.
Don't play dumb on this one, Tuco. It's the foundation of every informed debate on the topic. Unless, you favor up to 80% payroll taxes.
Yeah, and we can't have that - it's the GOVERNMENT'S job to steal your Social Security taxes /sarcarm.
The ONLY question you should ask is: How much in Social Security benefits will you lose for each dollar you put into a private account?
Less than I'm gonna lose when the current system implodes before I retire.
At least they have options. I do not. I have to kick in money before I ever earn it. And you wife can retire after 20 years or so with two to five times what I will see. And this crap about her having to pay "part" of the bill is crap, she pays it all. Or rather, I pay it all. She does nothing to create weath.
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