Sorry for any typos. I had to type this in by hand from the magazine. There is no link.

ATF has been using info from checks

Bang

They Have a Nice Term for It, But a Database Is a Database cops use it too---------------------------------------AFT Database [ Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | Top | Last ]

Thanks for the link. I missed that article.

bttt

Remember that when a politician says "This check will NEVER be used for registration", he is lying. When he says, "registration will never lead to confiscation", he is lying.

By using these lists to persecute gun owners, these useful idiots create an environment where it becomes better for those wanting guns to acquire them secretly and "illegally."

I originally wanted to post this as humorous, but it really is scary! This slow and stead incrementalism strategy will swallow us up, if we do not recognize it!

Enjoy.

ATF GUN PURCHASE FORM

Funny link!

It's been a while since I looked at the relevant laws, but I don't think there's any central record of gun purchases - certainly not all the way back to '92. As far as I can recall, the ATF records are kept in the physical possession of the seller. So how would this registry be compiled? I may be wrong, but something seems not to add up here.

try this link

Confiscation of Registered Guns Begins in Illinois

I looked at the relevant laws, but I don't think there's any central record of gun purchases - certainly not all the way back to '92. As far as I can recall, the ATF records are kept in the physical possession of the seller.

That is true for most purchases (you are speaking of the 4473 forms). I believe it's different for multiple purchases in the same week. Different record keeping. I think that's why you'll notice they have not compiled a list of ALL gun owners, although they probably would like that. Note however that they have gained access to at least some 4473s, probably just the ones from Illinois.

Thanks. That's a better article than the American Handgunner one, so I hope you don't mind if I post it here:

Confiscation of Registered Guns Begins in Illinois

The Chicago Police Department and the Illinois State Police have teamed up to make good on Mayor Daley's pledge that, if it were up to him, nobody would have a gun. Daley and his elite "CAGE" unit are apparently taking advantage of gun privacy loopholes to pinpoint certain individuals for inclusion in the confiscation program.

The ISRA is following up on leads in one case that has disturbing implications. An elderly first-generation Chicago resident was recently paid a visit by an Illinois State Police trooper. After asking to come inside the man's home, the trooper asked if the man owned a gun - to which he replied yes. The trooper then directed the individual to surrender the firearm. The man complied with the officer's demand and the trooper left with the gun. And the story gets better...

The gun in question was purchased legally by the man in the 1970s shortly after he became a U.S. citizen. When Chicago's infamous gun registration scheme went into effect in the early 1980s, the man registered the firearm as per the requirement. However, over the years, the fellow apparently forgot to re-register the firearm, and forgot to renew his Illinois FOID Card.

So...what does this all mean?

In the last edition of The Illinois Shooter, we reported on the activities of a shady taskforce known as the Chicago Anti Gun Enforcement (CAGE) unit. This elite squad, operated jointly by the Illinois State Police, the Chicago Police Department, and the Cook County State's Attorney's Office, supposedly exists to identify illegal gunrunners. However, information gained by the ISRA makes it clear that the CAGE unit is targeting law-abiding citizens, not criminal gunrunners.

Thanks to a ruling by a liberal federal judge, the CAGE unit now has the name of every single person in the United States who, since 1992, lawfully purchased more than one handgun in the period of a week. The CAGE unit also has all the makes, models and serial numbers of those guns. In essence, the Chicago Police Department is now registering guns and gun owners nationwide.

The ISRA has also learned that the CAGE unit has compiled a list of families where more than one person in that family holds a FOID card. Acting on that information, the CAGE unit is now contacting gun shops where those families have shopped, and is illegally registering all guns purchased by those families.

Now, it appears that the CAGE unit is scrubbing Chicago's gun registration list against the list of FOID card holders. Indications are that folks who have let their registrations and FOIDs lapse will have their guns confiscated. We have to wonder how long it will be until state troopers show up at the doors to confiscate the guns of non-Chicago residents who have let their FOIDs expire.

More later as this story develops.

Source: Illinois State Rifle Association

ATF sent a dealers aplication form to me the last time I bought.After calling ATF they said they get many calls back by people like me explaining the guns are not straw buys.When will this info be handed to thieves?

Might this play a role in a certain novel?

How is it that supposidly that Illinois is getting the information? I don't see how it would be possible for IL to get the info from outside their state?

One of the other activities that the Chicago cage unit is involved in is setting up sting operations on gun shops in the collar county around Chicago, Chucks gun shop was a resent target.

How is it that supposidly that Illinois is getting the information? I don't see how it would be possible for IL to get the info from outside their state?

The ATF retains Multiple Purchase Forms. I got this from a Brady Law FAQ page:

19. Q. What is the change regarding the multiple sales report?

A. In addition to furnishing multiple sales reports to ATF, licensees arerequired to submit such reports to the "department of State police or Statelaw enforcement agency of the State or local law enforcement agency of thejurisdiction in which the sale or other disposition took place."

This is followed by:

20. Q. Can the CLEO or other law enforcement official maintain a file ofReports of Multiple Sales received from a licensee?

A. No. The law prohibits keeping records more than 20 days after the datethe form is received by the CLEO. Exceptions would be for those formsinvolving prohibited persons.

Now this confuses me, because it would appear that the ATF is not supposed to keep them -- but then again, this answer doesn't specifically mention the ATF, only the state LEOs. I'd have to find the actual text of the law to see if the ATF is covered. And even then, maybe there was a subsequent law that allows the ATF to retain these records (which are entirely different from the NICS checks).

The above quotes are from the following link:

http://nsi.org/Tips/bradyhandgun.html

Anyone who believes that the records really and truly disappear in this day and age is pretty naive.

Might this play a role in a certain novel?

I'd say that in a fictional hypothetical world, these gun gestapo goons have made their choice and will have to live with it.