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Posts by AntiBurr

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  • Danforth concerned Republicans too closely tied to religious right

    08/26/2005 5:50:01 PM PDT · 23 of 55
    AntiBurr to lunarbicep
    What makes this even more curious is that Danforth is an ordained minister (Presbyterian I think).
    His family has always held strong religious views and donated a chapel to each of the universities of Missouri and Kansas.

    The Danforths were the founders of Ralston Purina Company of St.Louis.

  • Marines jump from planes, land with wings

    08/25/2005 4:18:35 PM PDT · 3 of 18
    AntiBurr to SandRat

    Side Note on the 240 foot tower at Ft. Benning, It was originally built as a ride at the 1939 New York World's Fair. It was moved to Benning early in WWII. Or so I was told when I was there in the early '60s.

  • High court decision forces Dallas to give black inmate retrial

    08/14/2005 9:20:44 AM PDT · 17 of 18
    AntiBurr to Shawndell Green
    "The ruling was not retroactive,"

    Would not a retroactive ruling constiute an ex-postfacto law?

  • Who Needs Free Will...

    08/07/2005 9:04:51 AM PDT · 23 of 23
    AntiBurr to Ode To Ted Kennedys Liver
    Aphorisms by their very nature are oversimplifications. This does not always change the truth of the aphorism.

    Heinlein was basically a Libertarian and, while not a complete libertairan myself, I tend to agree with most of their theses.

    Some have posted that "you can not legislate morals" and then diverge from morals to mores. That which is socially acceptable can not be legislated, but basic morality, right vs wrong, can and must be legislated.

  • Massive electric current tested in US

    07/29/2005 5:12:31 PM PDT · 55 of 87
    AntiBurr to steveo
    I went the other route, to Coulomb, since I knew that one Ampere is equal to one Coulomb flow in 1 second. One Coulomb is equal to 6.25x10^18 electrons flow.
    However, to get any flow, one must have a difference of potential, aka voltage. What voltage would be required to push 1.9x10 ^7 amperes and each Ampere equal to 1 coulomb what a number.
    OTOH, how do you measure current in amperes present for milliseconds, when the ampere is defined as one Coulomb of flow for 1 second?
  • Best athletes?

    07/23/2005 5:10:24 PM PDT · 16 of 17
    AntiBurr to The Other Harry

    Roberts was featured in several portions of "On Any Sunday" Originally made for Yamaha and starring Mert Lawill, H.D. #1 plate 1971, Malcolm Smith, winner of several International Six Day Trials competitions and Steve McQueen.

  • Best athletes?

    07/23/2005 5:04:42 PM PDT · 15 of 17
    AntiBurr to The Other Harry

    Jim Thorpe, hands down. Won Pentathalon and Decathalon single handed Stockholm 1912. Played Pro Baseball for the Giants under John McGraw and played semi pro football for years.

  • An Ironic Blow to the Firefox Hippies

    07/19/2005 4:25:20 PM PDT · 13 of 14
    AntiBurr to mattdono
    "And, I would note that if you are still using IE and/or Outlook (or Outlook Express), you really need to move to Firefox and Thunderbird. I haven't had 1 virus on my Windows machine since I started using them. Believe it or not, it's true."

    Yeah, I believed it, and downloaded both. Firefox crashed within three days and Thunderbird never worked at all. So I'm back with the ones that work even though I have to run garbage collection programs.

  • Employment numbers should jump / Economy will keep older workers on job

    07/17/2005 11:38:26 AM PDT · 16 of 23
    AntiBurr to BenLurkin
    There are other considerations than those mentioned in the article and the posts thus far. One is the "dumbing down" of the American populace.
    I realize that I am a fairly rare bird here, a genuine lifetime conservative who is also a blue collar worker. What I see in industry is a strong upsurge of people who are essentially unable to function dealing with any form of math or language. One recent helper when asked to get some quarter-inch bolts from the bin, said, "that's one over four isn't it?" I have had several helpers who can not read a ruler or tape measure.
    Another consideration is the almost total loss of the "work ethic"; the concept that work is, of itself, satisfying. I believe that it was Dr. Peter Drucker who wrote, "Job satisfaction is worth more than money."
  • Skeptics on seat-belt laws dig their heels in for free choice

    07/17/2005 11:02:49 AM PDT · 27 of 97
    AntiBurr to muawiyah
    "No doubt the fundamental problem with seat-belts is they are a gol-darned new-fangled gadget that no responsible driver ever needs.

    It's time to roll time back to the happy days of the 1950s where we can once again experience the thrill of launching ourselves out through the windshield of a Studebaker! "

    My parents owned a 1956 Ford which came equipped with seat belts. Lap belt only, but still was more than prior vehicles. These were available on the '55 for (I think) the first time; they were an extra cost option. Ford dropped the option for a few years because so few were willing to pay the extra dollars for the belts. I bought and installed them on my own '50 two door in '58.
    So, I don't think that I have a lot of resistance to using them.

    On the other hand, I definitely have a problem with the omnipotent government decreeing what I shall do for my own good. "It's for your own good" is what they told the Tom Cat just before his operation.

  • Thomas Jefferson

    07/17/2005 10:11:08 AM PDT · 48 of 48
    AntiBurr to Uhhuh35
    "The fact he owned slaves does not diminish his accomplishments."

    I don't believe that I made any comment on his slaveholding. Or on any hate, only that he had previously written a proposed constitution for Virginia and noted that Madison had access to it before the Constitutional Convention. The majority of the Virginia aristocracy were slaveowners and descended from slaveowners. Jefferson repeatedly tried to abolish slavery without success.

  • This Day In History Civil War July 17, 1864 John Bell Hood takes command of the Army of Tennessee

    07/17/2005 9:52:25 AM PDT · 20 of 23
    AntiBurr to MikeinIraq

    It was, indeed just what Sherman wanted:

    "About 10 A.m. of that day (July 18th), when the armies were all in motion, one of General Thomas's staff-officers brought me a citizen, one of our spies, who had just come out of Atlanta, and had brought a newspaper of the same day, or of the day before, containing Johnston's order relinquishing the command of the Confederate forces in Atlanta, and Hood's order assuming the command. I immediately inquired of General Schofield, who was his classmate at West Point, about Hood, as to his general character, etc., and learned that be was bold even to rashness, and courageous in the extreme; I inferred that the change of commanders meant "fight". Notice of this important charge was at once sent to all parts of the army, and every division commander was cautioned to be always prepared for battle in any shape. This was just what we wanted, vis, to fight in open ground, on any thing like equal terms, instead of being forced to run up against prepared intrenchments; but, at the same time, the enemy hav­ing Atlanta behind him, could choose the time and place of attack, and could at pleasure mass a superior force on our weak­est points. Therefore, we had to be constantly ready for sallies."

    --W.T. Sherman, "Memoirs" 1875

  • Thomas Jefferson

    07/13/2005 5:22:27 PM PDT · 19 of 48
    AntiBurr to Mr. Blonde
    I believe that Madison patterned his proposals on a proposed constitution for Virginia (not adopted) written by Jefferson. They were close, personally and politically for many years. There is no reason to doubt that Madison was familiar with Jefferson's work.
    The reason Jefferson was not involved in the Constitutional Convention was that he was ambassador to France at the time.
  • This Day In History | World War II July 10, 1940 The Battle of Britain begins

    07/10/2005 8:13:55 PM PDT · 6 of 6
    AntiBurr to mainepatsfan

    "Never, in the field of human conflict, have so many owed so much to so few." Winston Churchill on the Battle of Britain.

  • Best airplanes ever made?

    07/02/2005 7:56:13 PM PDT · 37 of 82
    AntiBurr to The Other Harry


    The Gooney Bird Poem

    "Tribute to the DC-3"
    was written by Oscar Brand.
    Our thanks to the folks from the
    "Yankee Air Force "
    who contacted Mr. Brand and he said
    that he had indeed written the poem.

    In '51 they tried to ground the noble DC-3,
    And so some lawyers brought the case before the CAB,
    The Board examined all the facts behind their great oak portal,
    And then pronounced these simple words, "The Gooney Bird's immortal."



    The Army toasts their SkyTrain now in lousy scotch and soda,
    The Tommies raise their tankards high to cheer the old Dakota,
    Some claim the C-47's best, or the gallant R4D,
    Forget the claim, they're all the same, the noble DC-3.


    Douglas built the ship to last, but nobody quite expected
    The crazy heap would fly and fly no matter how they wrecked it.
    While nations fall and men retire and jets get obsolete,
    The Gooney Bird flies on and on, at 11,000 feet.


    No matter what they do to her, The Gooney Bird still flies,
    One crippled plane was fitted out with one wing half the size,
    She hunched her shoulders, then took off, and I know this makes us laugh
    One wing askew, and yet she flew ... The DC-2 and a half.


    She had her faults, but after all, who's perfect in this sphere?
    Her heating system was a gem, we loved her for her gear.
    Of course, her windows leaked a bit when the rain came pouring down,
    She'd keep you warm, but in a storm it's possible you'd drown.


    Well now she flies the feeder routes and carries mail and freight,
    She's just an airborne office or a flying twelve ton crate,



    This page, and its contents are Copyright ©1995-2005, The DC3 Aviation Museum,
    All Rights Reserved, and are protected by U.S. and International Law.

  • Best airplanes ever made?

    07/02/2005 7:53:07 PM PDT · 36 of 82
    AntiBurr to The Other Harry
    I flew in a DC3 via American Airlines from Kansas City to St. Louis in the summer of '48. I agree that it is probably one of the two or three best designs of aircraft ever.

    The J-3 was actually designed by William Taylor of Taylorcraft fame who sold it to Piper. I once had an instructor prove that the Cub will fly backward if you have a headwind of 40 plus MPH. With a stall speed of 35, you can have an negative ground speed.

    Personally, the one I never flew in that I most admire is Canadian: The De Haviland Beaver aka the L-20. On floats, it is said that regardless of the load, if the tops of the floats are not submerged, it will come off the water and fly.

  • This Day in Civil War History June 5, 1862 Battle of Memphis

    06/06/2005 5:23:59 PM PDT · 17 of 22
    AntiBurr to wardaddy

    Ft. Negley has just been reopened in Nashville this year. according to an rticle in the Tenneseean sent by my sister.

  • This Day in Civil War History June 5, 1862 Battle of Memphis

    06/06/2005 5:21:49 PM PDT · 16 of 22
    AntiBurr to wardaddy

    Ft. Negley has just been reopened in Nashville this year. according to an rticle in the Tenneseean sent by my sister.

  • Accenture Voter ID List Survives Test (WI)

    06/03/2005 5:11:24 PM PDT · 3 of 5
    AntiBurr to Diana in Wisconsin
    "Dane County Circuit Judge Bill Foust ruled Thursday that Elections Board Executive Director Kevin Kennedy did not have the authority to sign a $13.9 million contract with Accenture LLP for creation and maintenance of a statewide voter registration list, but the state board - which retroactively affirmed Kennedy's authority - did.

    Is this what is called an ex-post facto law? I believe the Constitution bars them.

  • The Proof Is In The Pudding

    06/02/2005 5:59:13 PM PDT · 11 of 32
    AntiBurr to SubMareener

    I believe that Kissinger said of Nixon, "Paranoids have enemies too."

  • Gosh! A New Humous Restaurant!

    06/02/2005 5:51:54 PM PDT · 6 of 8
    AntiBurr to SJackson

    I thought that came in Potting Soil...oh, yeah that's HUMUS.

  • Clinton breaks deal with prosecutor - Now says charges against him as president were false

    06/02/2005 5:43:17 PM PDT · 65 of 114
    AntiBurr to cajun-jack

    Is this a paralell to McCarthy's refrence to Stuart Symington as an "Alledged Man"?

  • Evolution's Poker Hand

    06/02/2005 5:28:11 PM PDT · 82 of 83
    AntiBurr to Drammach

    I stand corrected.

  • Leftists accuse U.S. of harboring Cuban bomber (Terrorism Conference held in Havana)

    06/02/2005 5:05:35 PM PDT · 6 of 13
    AntiBurr to cardinal4
    "I would submit that communists holding a terror conference is hypocritical..

    Of course it is. My question is, Do we have an extradition treaty with Cuba? If not, what's their gripe?

  • Computer help ( vanity)

    06/01/2005 11:40:58 AM PDT · 29 of 33
    AntiBurr to LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget

    Yes, buy a Al Gore.

  • Evolution's Poker Hand

    06/01/2005 11:05:32 AM PDT · 69 of 83
    AntiBurr to Texas Eagle

    Not only do simple cells exist, the amoeba which is a one celled animal is literally a part of the first amoeba since they reproduce by division.

  • Evolution's Poker Hand

    06/01/2005 11:01:26 AM PDT · 68 of 83
    AntiBurr to Drammach

    Under the external hoof, horses have 5 digits

  • Official EU Statement on the "French Rejection"

    05/30/2005 8:24:24 PM PDT · 22 of 24
    AntiBurr to drt1
    "President of the European Council Jean-Claude Juncker"

    "Spoken in the true and peculiar vernacular of the Globalist Elites."

    "Being the bulwark of the Hohenzollern Empire, the Junkers controlled the military, leading in political influence and social status, and owning immense Estates. Their political influence extended from the German Empire of 1871 to 1918 through the Weimar Republic of 1919-1933. It was said that Prussia ruled Germany, the Junkers ruled Prussia, and through it the Empire itself."

    So what else is new?

  • Activist faces trial for officer assault

    05/30/2005 8:11:47 PM PDT · 7 of 9
    AntiBurr to tomkat

    Me Too

  • Bane of companies, PETA spy reveals self

    05/30/2005 8:08:40 PM PDT · 19 of 45
    AntiBurr to winner3000
    "Too bad PETA are such human haters.

    One of my favorite comments on this subject:

    "There are hidden contradictions in the minds of people who "love Nature" while deploring the "artificialities" with which "Man has spoiled 'Nature.'" The obvious contradiction lies in their choice of words, which imply that Man and his artifacts are not part of "Nature" -- but beavers and their dams are. But the contradictions go deeper than this prima-facie absurdity. In declaring his love for a beaver dam (erected by beavers for beavers' purposes) and his hatred for dams erected by men (for the purposes of men) the "naturist" reveals his hatred for his own race -- i.e., his own self hatred.
    In the case "Naturists" such self-hatred is understandable; they are such a sorry lot. But hatred is too strong an emotion to feel toward them; pity and contempt are the most they rate.
    As for me, willy-nilly I am a man, not a beaver, and H. sapiens is the only race I have or can have.
    Fortunately for me, I like being part of a race made up of men and women -- it strikes me as a fine arrangement and perfectly "natural." --Robert A Heinlien

  • Repeal the Seventeenth Amendment

    05/30/2005 7:30:41 PM PDT · 71 of 143
    AntiBurr to billbears

    I can't argue with your logic, however the Framers also had partisan problems. Madison denounced "Factions" in the Federalist Papers. Jefferson resigned as Secretary of State because of ideological differences with Hamilton (Treasury) over the Bank Bill and the "Report on Manufactures" which would have subsidized industry in the North East. Jefferson disliked the Bank which he said was set up to perpetuate the national debt instead of retiring it.

  • Repeal the Seventeenth Amendment

    05/30/2005 7:16:31 PM PDT · 62 of 143
    AntiBurr to muawiyah
    Let's see, returning southern states were required to pass the 13th Amendment in order to return to the Union. Then after they had returned, they voted against the 14th and then their votes were thrown out and Washington/Oregon was pushed through to provide the needed votes to pass the 14th.

    How could anyone not think this is illegal?

  • Repeal the Seventeenth Amendment

    05/30/2005 7:11:48 PM PDT · 60 of 143
    AntiBurr to muawiyah
    Wasn't aware that Arkansas did that. Missouri's governor and lt.governor went south and the bill of secession never received a vote. The senators remained in Washington but there was never an election or appointment of legislators to the Confederacy. The Blair family was the power in Union Missouri at the time. Frank P Blair, Union general was part of it.

    Arkansas passed an ordnance of secession.

  • Repeal the Seventeenth Amendment

    05/30/2005 7:05:36 PM PDT · 52 of 143
    AntiBurr to nicollo

    The Federal Reserve Act was brought up, and voted on on Christmas Eve when the majority of legislators were absent. Since we have no statement in the Constitution of a required Quorum, they can do that. It was signed into law before anyone knew about it. It had been voted down 3 times previously by the full house.

  • Repeal the Seventeenth Amendment

    05/30/2005 7:00:54 PM PDT · 48 of 143
    AntiBurr to Remember_Salamis
    "Thank you UNRATIFIED 14th Amendment!"

    Or at least illegally ratified 14th. That's when they learned to load the dice.

  • Repeal the Seventeenth Amendment

    05/30/2005 6:55:47 PM PDT · 45 of 143
    AntiBurr to muawiyah
    "If you have a legislature vote for a Senator, the only difference between that and having everybody in the state vote for a Senator is the number of voters!"

    The difference is that the state legislatures were more responsive to the voters of their respective states. If a U.S. Senator did not represent his state, the state legislature could and did remove him. An example: Jim Lane of Kansas was removed as Senator during the Cvil War and wound up committing suicide rather than face prosecution.

  • Repeal the Seventeenth Amendment

    05/30/2005 6:50:18 PM PDT · 41 of 143
    AntiBurr to Remember_Salamis
    "The Virginia and Kentucky Resolves of 1798 (see William Watkins, Reclaiming the American Revolution) were the work of state legislatures that instructed their senators to oppose the Sedition Act, which essentially made it illegal to criticize the federal government. "

    Technically this is correct however, The Virginia Reslolves were written by Madison and the Kentucky Resolutions were written by Jefferson who was out of government completely at the time. The Alien and Sedition Acts were typical of what was done at a later time in the name of "crisis". The Emergency Powers Act of 1933 saddled us with the Executive Order form of government which is nowhere listed in the Constitution. Essentially, it granted Emergency Powers to the President, (FDR) which are still in use today.
    At least the Alien and Sedition Acts had a "sunset clause" and they became automatically void on March 4, 1801. The day that Jefferson was sworn in as President.

  • Cigar fires up Israeli minister (Netanyahu's suit catches fire)

    05/30/2005 6:30:23 PM PDT · 9 of 31
    AntiBurr to wagglebee
    This brings to mind a passage from Joshua Slocum's "Sailing Alone Around the World"(1900)

    Slocum had stopped at his boyhood home of Briar Island in Nova Scotia when first setting out on his voyage and was reminiscing about his youth:

    "Lowry the tailor lived there when boys were boys. In his day he was fond of the gun. He always carried his powder loose in the tail pocket of his coat. He usually had in his mouth a short dudeen ; but in an evil moment he put the dudeen, lighted, in the pocket among the powder. Mr. Lowry was an eccentric man."

  • Open Letter to Saudis

    05/30/2005 6:15:45 PM PDT · 41 of 52
    AntiBurr to Noumenon

    Thanks for my new tag line

  • Why do they hate us? (Why Any Sane Person Hates Liberal Journalists)

    05/30/2005 5:44:50 PM PDT · 21 of 33
    AntiBurr to AmericanArchConservative
    This clown can't even give a proper quote. Two seconds on Google got: "Those who ignore the past are condemned to repeat it." Santayana
    Is my memory bad, or didn't the Israelis take their country away from the British (then called Aden) at gunpoint? Seems to me that was when Moishe Dyan lost his eye. Wasn't there a movie about that conflict? Something called "EXODUS" ?
  • Why do they hate us? (Why Any Sane Person Hates Liberal Journalists)

    05/30/2005 5:35:35 PM PDT · 17 of 33
    AntiBurr to Gorzaloon
    "I do not wish to understand the "feelings" of a cockroach, either; I want to step on it and poison every single last one of the species, without hard feelings, or anything personal- Just simply because it is an unpleasant job that needs to be done."

    Now you are really insulting cockroaches. Do you realize that though they are ugly and disgusting, cockroaches are not known to carry any disease?
    I can't say that for jihadists.

  • Attempt to identify WWI officer

    05/30/2005 3:03:34 PM PDT · 10 of 22
    AntiBurr to mountaineer

    I well understand your feelings. I have tried to find the area where the skirmishing took place that resulted in the death of my great grandfather. (only one g there) It is somewhere along the Black River in southern Missouri. The small campaign in November of '62 caused his death from pneumonia in January at St. Louis. Yes, it was 1863 and he was a private in Co. G, 26th IA Vol Inf. His brother served through Vicksburg and another served through the war and died on his way home, but he was Confederate.

  • Attempt to identify WWI officer

    05/30/2005 2:51:57 PM PDT · 9 of 22
    AntiBurr to Kolokotronis
    You have an advantage in that your vocation stimulates the use of memory. As a miner and electrician, it is more difficult for me to recall much of what I once knew. However, the following excerpt may revive a memory for you:

    Beneath, in the churchyard lay the dead
    In their night encampment on the hill
    Wrapped in silence so deep and still
    You could hear like a sentinel's tread
    the watchful night wind as it went
    creeping along from tent to tent.
    And the moonlight flowing over all.

    My grandfather lies in the Wadsworth National Cemetery at Leavenworth, KS. The plain white stone is marked simply:
    Marion Brubaker
    Sp Am War
    Whenever I visit there, I am always impressed with the peaceful beauty of the scene and another verse runs in my mind:

    IN FLANDERS FIELDS the poppies blow
    Between the crosses row on row,
    That mark our place; and in the sky
    The larks, still bravely singing, fly
    Scarce heard amid the guns below.
    We are the Dead. Short days ago
    We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
    Loved and were loved, and now we lie
    In Flanders fields.

    Take up our quarrel with the foe:
    To you from failing hands we throw
    The torch; be yours to hold it high.
    If ye break faith with us who die
    We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
    In Flanders fields.
    Lt.Col John McRae

  • This Day In History | Civil War May 30 1862 Confederates evacuate Corinth, Mississippi

    05/30/2005 2:28:44 PM PDT · 6 of 7
    AntiBurr to Colonel Kangaroo
    Halleck's relegation of Grant to "second in command" effectively isolating him from the army nearly resulted in Grant resigning. Sherman talked Grant into staying and that only hours before he would have left. Linclon did the only possible thing with Halleck, he kicked him upstairs and let Grant and Sherman get on with the war.
    Years after the war, Halleck told General Thomas that Grant had sent Logan to relieve him at Nashville because Thomas was so slow to attack. Grant did not know that there had been an ice storm which immobilized the army for several days. Thomas attacked when conditions allowed and the Battle of Nashville was the only one of the war that effectively destroyed an army..Hood's.
    Thomas died of a heart attack while writing a letter to Grant defending himself over the battle. Grant felt that "Old Brains" had effectively killed Thomas.
  • General John A. Logan's Memorial Day Order

    05/30/2005 2:12:30 PM PDT · 5 of 5
    AntiBurr to Rockitz

    As well you should be. With Blair of Missouri, Logan was among the best commanders of the Union to start out as a political appointment. Others, notably Ben Butler were far less successful. Logan briefly commanded the Army of Tennessee after McPherson was killed at Kennesaw Moutain and afterward commanded the 15th Army Corps which was Sherman's own corps originally. Sherman and Grant both spoke highly of him. Grant sent Logan to relieve Thomas at Nashville, but since Thomas had successfully carried out the attack when Logan arrived, he kept the letter in his pocket. An Honorable Man.

  • Woman Finds $3,000 in Garage-Sale Chair

    05/30/2005 1:44:00 PM PDT · 36 of 172
    AntiBurr to fish hawk

    True, but only as collector's items, Silver Certificates are no longer honored by the "Federal Reserve" and haven't been for over 20 years.

  • The senator's tale (on Chaucer and Sen. Byrd)

    05/30/2005 1:39:10 PM PDT · 2 of 6
    AntiBurr to 68skylark

    I rather think that Byrd should emulate the lover in "The Nun's Priest's Tale"

  • Mexico's Coming Collapse (and America's loss of jobs)

    05/30/2005 10:37:13 AM PDT · 5 of 12
    AntiBurr to Dr.Hilarious

    I tend to agree with you. Of course it depends on what skills he has, but it seems to me that something should have turned up if he was really trying.

  • The Neal Boortz Commencement Speech

    05/30/2005 10:12:35 AM PDT · 29 of 33
    AntiBurr to Sprite518

    Wasn't disagreeing, simply adding Boortz' own comment, more or less in rebuttal to the "Urbal Legend" comment.

  • The Class of 9/11

    05/30/2005 10:10:43 AM PDT · 6 of 6
    AntiBurr to MCH
    It's basically in the way that a person stands and how they answer civil inquiries. Even in my '60's I still tend to "Sir" people who are appointed over me. It hasn't hurt me yet. A while back, an aquaintance and I were talking about this and he asked me if I thought he had been in the military, and I told him that if he had, it was probably Navy since he did not have the posture of a soldier or Marine.

    Recall Sherlock Holmes identifying a retired Sgt Major of Marines from across the street..The same principle.