Posts by Credo_ut_intelligam

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  • Behe Jumps the Shark [response to Michael Behe's NYTimes op-ed, "Design for Living"]

    02/12/2005 6:50:08 PM PST · 39 of 899
    Credo_ut_intelligam to All
    The first part of this article critiques two of Behe's publications which tout the eubacterial flagellum as the paradigm case for 'irreducible complexity'. Miller slices Behe's position to shreds. Perhaps you'll want to read it yourself.

    William A. Dembski, in UNCOMMON DISSENT, INTELLECTUALS WHO FIND DARWINISM UNCONVINCING has commented upon Miller's article and said Despite Miller's promises to the contrary, don't look for a refutation of irreducible complexity there. None of Miller's arguments against irreducible complexity withstands scrutiny.... Miller refers his readers to "four glittering examples of what Behe claimed would never be found." Go to the articles that Miller cites, however, and you'll find that Miller's four glittering examples not only fail to be detailed but also fail to be irreducibly complex. Miller isn't even in the right ballpark.

    Two suggestions: 1. Christians are not by definition nonintellectuals, and 2.We have a legitimate place at the conservative table.

  • Christianity trashed by Thomas Jefferson?

    11/13/2004 3:57:59 PM PST · 46 of 47
    Credo_ut_intelligam to DBeers

    Your intellect is truly dizzying! Your mind is clearly made up and thus I will not be able to confuse you with the facts. Carry on Don Quixote, I wish you well.

  • Christianity trashed by Thomas Jefferson?

    11/13/2004 1:11:19 PM PST · 43 of 47
    Credo_ut_intelligam to DBeers
    Whoaaaaaaaaaa! It seems that I pushed your buttons! Take a deep breath and reflect a bit. Yes I know that Jefferson signed the Declaration of Independence. I even know that he lifted the phrase life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness from John Locke, the father of the English Enlightenment, whose original phrase, by the way, originally was life, liberty, and property.

    You may believe an innocuous letter counters the 'officially' published and agreed to Declaration of Independence penned by our Founding Fathers No, actually no letter, whether innocuous or otherwise, counters the Declaration of Independence. But letters from the hand of the founders themselves go a long way to establish what they believed or did not believe.

    You quote the passage Laws of Nature and of Nature's God from the Declaration. Perhaps you do not recognize these as classic Deistic phrases which were used by most intellectuals of that era.

    Your crusade for 'truth' regarding this issue is based upon irrelevance (sic) relativist secular propaganda... What of your cause -please explain specifically, what the 'Cause of Christ' you champion is?

    Actually my pursuit of TRUTH is based upon a presuppositionalist theological commitment to the divinely revealed Scriptures. My epistemological stance is firm and impervious to the legends, myths, and passions of historians, revisionists, and liberals. The Cause of Christ that I champion is that Jesus is Lord of heaven and earth.

  • Christianity trashed by Thomas Jefferson?

    11/13/2004 6:10:02 AM PST · 27 of 47
    Credo_ut_intelligam to durasell

    In an 1819 letter to Willam Short, Jefferson wrote

    "Abstracting what is really his [Jesus] from the rubbish in which it is buried [the New Testament], easily distinguished by its lustre from the dross of his biographers [Matthew, Mark, Luke, John], and as separable from that as the diamond from the dunghill ... The establishment of the innocent and genuine character of this benevolent moralist [!] and the rescuing it form the imputation of imposture, which has resulted form artificial systems, [these artificial systems Jefferson footnotes as "the immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, ... the Trinity, original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of Hierarchy, &c."] invented by ultra-Christian sects, unauthorized by a single word ever uttered by him, is a most desirable object, and one to which Priestly [father of Unitarianism] has successfully devoted his labors and learning."


    As Christians we are obliged to speak the truth in all circumstances. The Cause of Christ is not helped when overzealous conservative writers seek to "return the nation to its biblical foundation" by doing what they so often charge liberals with -- rewriting history. The facts are what they are. The words and deeds of the leading men of the American revolution are readily accessible to any one who will take the time to search them out.

    Jefferson expressed on more than one occasion his expectation that in a few years the whole nation would embrace his Unitarianism.

  • The Founding Fathers and Deism

    11/08/2004 7:03:40 PM PST · 46 of 62
    Credo_ut_intelligam to All
    This has been a lively discussion indeed. Allow me to say that although my research of the writings of Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Henry and others has provided copious proof that most of the founding fathers did not personally embrace the Christian faith most were friendly toward it.

    In addition to the earlier quote from Jefferson I add this one from John Adams:

    The clergy of this province are a virtuous, sensible, and learned set of men and they do not take their sermons from newspapers, but the Bible; unless it be a few, who preach passive obedience. These are not generally curious enough to read Hobbes. It is the duty of the clergy to accommodate their discourses to the times.

    To Adams, a good preacher would be in touch with the Enlightenment and will have read Hobbes. Certainly any indifferent and unlearned minister who preached passive obedience could not have been expounding the Biblical text; such a man (in Adams'eyes) must have gathered his sermon material from the newspapers.

    The evidence against Adams and Jefferson in their own words irrefutably demonstrates that they rejected orthodox Christianity. The evidence against Madison and Henry, though less conclusive than that against Adams and Jefferson, is compelling.

    None of this is intended to disparage any of these men in regard to their usefulness in the founding of our nation. But again, we must deal with the facts;

    their embrace of Christianity on a personal level was comparable to that of John Kerry.

  • The Founding Fathers and Deism

    11/08/2004 12:35:15 PM PST · 23 of 62
    Credo_ut_intelligam to Conservative Coulter Fan
    BTW I errantly typed the date of Jefferson's letter as 1831. It was actually October 31, 1819. I shouldn't try to type so fast.
  • The Founding Fathers and Deism

    11/08/2004 12:23:14 PM PST · 18 of 62
    Credo_ut_intelligam to Conservative Coulter Fan
    With all due respect to and appreciation for Mr. Barton I must take exception to the oft repeated myth that America's founders were Christian. Unlike those he criticizes in his letter, I have, over the past four years, read more than ten thousand pages of primary source documents (including the writings of Jefferson and Madison).

    For example, in an 1831 letter to Willam Short, Jefferson wrote

    "Abstracting what is really his [Jesus] from the rubbish in which it is buried [the New Testament], easily distinguished by its lustre from the dross of his biographers [Matthew, Mark, Luke, John], and as separable from that as the diamond from the dunghill ... The establishment of the innocent and genuine character of this benevolent moralist [!] and the rescuing it form the imputation of imposture, which has resulted form artificial systems, [these artificial systems Jefferson footnotes as "the immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, ... the Trinity, original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of Hierarchy, &c."] invented by ultra-Christian sects, unauthorized by a single word ever uttered by him, is a most desirable object, and one to which Priestly [father of Unitarianism] has successfully devoted his labors and learning."

    Mr. Barton and his ilk, however sincere, produce and perpetuate myths founded on sloppy scholarship which yield careless (if not slanted) assertions.

    As Christians we are obliged to speak the truth in all circumstances. The Cause of Christ is not helped when overzealous conservative writers seek to "return the nation to its biblical foundation" by doing what they so often charge liberals with -- rewriting history. The facts are what they are. The words and deeds of the leading men of the American revolution are readily accessible to any one who will take the time to search them out.

  • America the Theocracy

    11/04/2004 1:08:24 PM PST · 18 of 57
    Credo_ut_intelligam to iheartusa
    Gary DeMar is a well known Theonomist known both to those in the Theonomy movement as well as those who refute them, as I do. Their fundamental mistake is making the Old Covenant community of Israel, with its mixed-multitude, composition the paradigm for the New Covenant people of God, the Church, which is made up of all those who are savingly joined to Jesus Christ.