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Posts by daniel1212

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  • Does Jesus Forbid Self-Defense?

    06/19/2018 3:36:15 AM PDT · 75 of 109
    daniel1212 to Theophilus
    What your priest does not ask is, "Does Jesus Forbid The Burning/Extermination of Heretics by the sword of men in the hand of the RC church?" And physical punishment by the same means against wayward members?

    Great post. I'll say this about heresy though, it's real and worthy of hell fire. Dealing with it is problematic, not dealing with it is just as perilous.

    Yes, heresy is serious, but the issue is the basis for determining it, how it is to be dealt with. Catholicism makes her presumed ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility the basis for what is Truth vs. error, which is heresy itself, and thereby sanctions coercive physical punishment to deal with those it deems to be heretical, and papal teaching required RC rulers to exterminate them, or else the people did not have to obey them. - Canons of the Ecumenical Fourth Lateran Council (canon 3), 1215; http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/lateran4.asp

    And which recourse is one of the many things Protestantism had to unlearn from Rome.

    The Church has the right, as a perfect and independent society provided with all the means for attaining its end, to decide according to its laws disputes arising concerning its internal affairs, especially as to the ecclesiastical rights of its members, also to carry out its decision, if necessary, by suitable means of compulsion, contentious or civil jurisdiction. It has, therefore, the right to admonish or warn its members, ecclesiastical or lay, who have not conformed to its laws and also, if needful to punish them by physical means, that is, coercive jurisdiction. — Catholic Encyclopedia Jurisdiction

    ► Q. 540. How did the Pope acquire and how was he deprived of the temporal power? A. The Pope acquired the temporal power in a just manner by the consent of those who had a right to bestow it. He was deprived of it in an unjust manner by political changes. - http://baltimore-catechism.com/lesson12.htm

  • ‘It was either me or the cat’: Georgia woman kills rabid bobcat with her bare hands

    06/19/2018 3:10:32 AM PDT · 35 of 38
    daniel1212 to DCBryan1
    Yankee’s take notice.

    My question is what is this doing in the liberal Washington Post? It is more like something you would see on Fox news. But WAPO provides it since a gun was not used, and it was a women, and the cat had rabies, therefore it passes the politically correct test, in which guns are not needed, and all animals are peaceful unless enraged by conservatives, and men are to be marginalized if possible. But if she or esp. a white male killed an attacking bobcat (isn't that name sexist?) with a gun, and it did not have rabies, then the story would likely not have gotten past the PO censors.

  • Does Jesus Forbid Self-Defense?

    06/18/2018 8:48:31 PM PDT · 70 of 109
    daniel1212 to Salvation; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; boatbums; ...
    As typical of Catholics, your priest restricts what Jesus taught to only the gospels, and substitutes the CCC in its place as further explanatory, thus once again he manifests that he is unfit to teach Christian doctrine. And he never really clearly answers the (admittedly difficult) question

    What Scripture also says is

    Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. (Romans 12:17-19)

    See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men. (1 Thessalonians 5:15)

    Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. (1 Peter 3:9)

    For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: (1 Peter 2:20-23)

    Thus retaliation is proscribed, and enduring persecution and wrongs is prescribed. Yet appealing to just laws, and exposing injustice and combating it, at least for principle sake and when it hinders the preaching of word of the Lord, is positively exampled:

    And as they bound him with thongs, Paul said unto the centurion that stood by, Is it lawful for you to scourge a man that is a Roman, and uncondemned? (Acts 22:25)

    And the keeper of the prison told this saying to Paul, The magistrates have sent to let you go: now therefore depart, and go in peace. But Paul said unto them, They have beaten us openly uncondemned, being Romans, and have cast us into prison; and now do they thrust us out privily? nay verily; but let them come themselves and fetch us out. (Acts 16:36-37)

    What your priest does not ask is, "Does Jesus Forbid The Burning/Extermination of Heretics by the sword of men in the hand of the RC church?" And physical punishment by the same means against wayward members?

    Time to sleep.

  • Why Paul is Important to Christianity

    06/17/2018 9:35:50 AM PDT · 28 of 39
    daniel1212 to HarleyD
    One of the most interesting facts about Paul is that he called himself the “chief of sinners”. While this may seem like a humble and modest view of himself, John MacArthur makes an interesting point that this view was given and inserted under the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Which means that Paul was indeed the chief of sinners. The text cannot lie. No one was worst then Paul. Paul, before his conversion, will always be the chief of sinners.

    It is not a sound hermeneutic that since the Holy Spirit inspired a statement that it must be literal, yet Paul can be called the chief of sinners ("sinners; of whom I am chief:" (1 Timothy 1:15; cf. Acts 8:3; 9:1,5,13; 22:4; 26:9-11; 1Co 15:9; Ga 1:13; Php 3:6) "because I persecuted the church of God," (1 Corinthians 15:9) "how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:," (Galatians 1:13) for " I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth," (Acts 26:9) and thus, "breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord," (Acts 9:1) "made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison." (Acts 8:3) Passionate Saul/Paul was a "verb" of a man, for evil and then good.

    And by persecuting the body of Christ, church of God, and even being a party to the murder of the manifest man of God, deacon Stephen, (Acts 7) Paul was persecuting and murdering Christ. Thus thus the Lord's question and statement, "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?....I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.". (Acts 9:4-5)

    And as manifest in his teaching and his pastoral care, by the Spirit of Christ Paul is ever most mindful of the church as the body of Christ, (Col 1:18) and its members as being bought with so great a price.

    Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (Acts 20:28)

    Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. (Romans 14:15)

    And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? (1 Corinthians 8:11)

    Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches. Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not? (2 Corinthians 11:28-29) And as the one new man manifesting the grace and wisdom of God. (Ephesians 3:10,21; 5:2; Col. 1:17)

    More so than pastoral Peter., "church" and "churches" Paul" are seen together.

    However, Paul cannot be called the chef of sinners in guilt, for as he confessed he,

    was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief . (1 Timothy 1:13)

    For Paul in utmost sincerity actually thought he was obeying the living and true God, and in fact in another wholly inspired statement could even confess,

    And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day. (Acts 23:1)

    Which is certainly not what I can say, and there are sins of ignorance versus disobedience to known Truth, perhaps out of weakness, and worse, willful impenitent rebellion to the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and guilt and punishment is determined in accordance with the level of light and and grace given. .

    Thus while the Lord prayed, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do," (Luke 23:34) He also foretold, "Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes." (Matthew 11:21) "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." (Luke 12:48)

    The worse sin is that of apostasy, after one is enlightened.

    Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:25-31)

    David grievously sinned, and must have subdued his conscious during the period of his sins against Uriah the Hittite, yet when convicted thru Nathan then he repented immediately and was forgiven (if not without consequences). And could claim that in the overall sense (which is what we seem to see in such statements that says certain men were perfect or blameless or do not sin: 2 Chronicles 15:17; Luke 1:6; 1 John 5:18) "I have kept the ways of the Lord, and have not wickedly departed from my God." (2 Samuel 22:22)

    Given that, and understanding the great accomplishments of Paul, one can see what the Holy Spirit can do in us if we submit our lives to Him.

    Yes, and that

    But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work. (2 Timothy 2:20-21)

    I have a ways to go in this.

  • I saw a Tsunami hit the United States

    06/17/2018 9:32:35 AM PDT · 107 of 159
    daniel1212 to Jim 0216; metmom; Catsrus; ducttape45; Mr Rogers
    God exhausted ALL his wrath, punishment, and condemnation for all the sins of every one that has ever and will ever live on the body of his Son, Jesus Christ, on the cross (1 John 2:2) and in doing so, God has righteously reconciled the world to himself (2 Cor 5:19). God fully and completely judged America’s sins 2000 years ago on the cross of Christ and would be committing unrighteous double jeopardy if he were to judge the same sins again now.

    Jesus died for ALL the sins of the WHOLE world (John 1:29; 1 John 2:2)

    So, I repeat. God exhausted ALL his wrath, punishment, and condemnation for all the sins of every one that has ever and will ever live on the body of his Son, Jesus Christ, on the cross (1 John 2:2) and in doing so, God has righteously reconciled the world to himself (2 Cor 5:19).

    Which is absurd. The fact that the Lord laid all our sins upon Christ who paid the price for our forgiveness simply does not mean that God has exhausted ALL his wrath, punishment, and condemnation for all the sins of every one any more than it means the lost are saved simply because Christ died.

    He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. (John 3:36)

    The NT clearly states that God yet manifests wrath, exercises punishment for sins and condemn the same, and will do so.

    Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. (Matthew 23:34-35)

    Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. (1 Thessalonians 2:16)

    For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:26-31)

    In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9)

    Moreover, while the chastisement of our peace was upon Christ, yet even chastisement of Christians is a form of condemnation, wrath and punishment for sin, although the purpose is to work repentance, and holiness.

    For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:29-32)

  • I saw a Tsunami hit the United States

    06/17/2018 8:48:00 AM PDT · 105 of 159
    daniel1212 to The Truth Will Make You Free; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; ...
    e House of Representatives stay in the hands of the Republicans and will move much more to a conservative position

    he Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord will return once again across the land.”

    “I will come to America with another wave of revival, this will be the third wave and will crash against the shores so intensely that the nation will awaken to righteousness again.

    “As a sure sign of these things coming to pass there will be a wave of conservatives elected during the midterm election in November 2018, it will be Breaking News. They will carry the House and the Senate and I will uproot, replant and rebuild the nation.

    -Prophet Charlie Shamp [Sham]

    More pseudo-prophecy by a wishful wannabe "prophet" who evidently sees America being the focus of God's concern, and not the church. I certainly want to see this come true, and some might, but it would likely take a nuclear attack for the kind of transformation dreamed of here. Meanwhile the focus of God is on His body, the church, which He bought with His own sinless shed blood, (Acts 20:28) and which is where judgment must begin. (1 Pet. 4:17)

  • Why Paul is Important to Christianity

    06/17/2018 4:41:35 AM PDT · 24 of 39
    daniel1212 to unlearner; pcottraux
    Excellent article, however, I wish to point out that Paul was not a Levite—Levi being the priestly tribe. He was a Benjamite. He could have risen to be a highly respected leader in Israel, but becoming the high priest or any priest was never an option for him.

    Good point. Iron sharpeneth iron.

  • Why Paul is Important to Christianity

    06/17/2018 4:39:57 AM PDT · 23 of 39
    daniel1212 to ARA; metmom
    Apparently, Luke actually traveled with Paul on a few different occasions.

    Where do you find this?

    It is understood that Luke, the author of Acts, was with Paul for a considerable part of his ministry..

    Act 16:10  And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them. 

    And when it was determined that we should sail into Italy, they delivered Paul and certain other prisoners unto one named Julius, a centurion of Augustus' band. (Act 27:1)

    Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you. (Colossians 4:14)

    Only Luke is with me. Take Mark, and bring him with thee: for he is profitable to me for the ministry. (2 Timothy 4:11)

  • Why Paul is Important to Christianity

    06/17/2018 4:31:05 AM PDT · 21 of 39
    daniel1212 to Luircin; Salvation
    I know plenty of people who would LOVE to see all of Paul’s writings purged from the New Testament, sad to say.

    Or at least marginalized in order to extrapolate from the gospels an understanding which is foreign to that of the NT church. From the separate celibate class of sacerdotal priests uniquely offering the Lord's supper as a sacrifice for sins whereby they spiritually feed the church, to looking to Peter as the first of a line of infallible popes reigning over the church from Rome, to praying to created being in Heaven, to exalting the Mary of Catholicism as a almost omnipotent (by grace) demigoddess savior, whom the church primarily called upon, to the act of baptism rendering one born again, to becoming good enough thru Purgatory (and atoning for sins therein) to enter Heaven. And more.

  • Why Paul is Important to Christianity

    06/17/2018 4:18:14 AM PDT · 20 of 39
    daniel1212 to Salvation; pcottraux; Luircin
    Jesus Christ is much more important than Paul.

    Obviously, and the article expresses that it is in that interest that Paul is important:

    There’s no serious doubt to whether Jesus actually lived or that He was crucified. The real question is whether or not He rose again, which would definitively prove whether He was who He claimed to be. His followers play an important role here, because if He didn’t rise from the dead, they lied or fabricated the resurrection somehow.

    It is as a most unlikely but profound witness to the resurrection of Christ that Paul is focused on.

    However, Catholics typically evidence a marginalization of Paul and even the rest of the NT in order to prevent the gospels from being understood in the light of Acts and the epistles which explain the gospels. For the gospels do not show how the NT church understood the gospels, and in which Catholic distinctives are not manifest .

  • Why Paul is Important to Christianity

    06/17/2018 4:05:12 AM PDT · 19 of 39
    daniel1212 to pcottraux; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; boatbums; ...
    The men with him heard the voice but didn’t see anyone...Therefore, the men accompanying Paul really did hear the voice.

    Overall well done and written, except for this technicality, which pertains to a false charge of contradiction by adversaries:

    And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice , but seeing no man. (Act 9:7)

    And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. (Act 26:14)

    And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. (Act 22:9)

    But the word for "voice" ("phōnē) can simply mean "sound" versus a the articulation, as in John 12:28-29:

    Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

    Thus the men traveling with Paul fearfully heard a sound without an apparent source, but did not hear the words "Saul, Saul," etc).

    And what we need is "ears to hear:" Deuteronomy 29:4 Ezekiel 12:2 Matthew 11:15 Matthew 13:9 Matthew 13:43 Mark 4:9 Mark 4:23 Mark 7:16 Luke 8:8 Luke 14:35

  • If you are zotted or banned - can you re-register under a new name? Vanity

    06/16/2018 6:47:39 PM PDT · 172 of 205
    daniel1212 to ratzoe; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; boatbums; ...
    Always enjoyed Mia T’s posts but they were so graphic heavy, I imagine it was hell on bandwidth. Heard that she was banned but never knew why.

    Then there was Quix on the RF, as well as others after some Catholics protested against some Protestants attacking their faith (too much), which was in response to too much Catholic promotion and attacks on Protestants, which are allowed.

  • Church attendance linked with reduced suicide risk, especially for Catholics, study says

    06/16/2018 2:12:44 AM PDT · 172 of 172
    daniel1212 to Mrs. Don-o
    (((sigh))) Canon 212 And tagline.

    (((sigh))) You have also tried this before, but the only thing in Canon 212 that you can try to invoke in defense of public dissent is ,

    §3. According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons.

    I presume you consider yourself and cohorts to have the required knowledge, competence, and prestige, but invoking this shows how subject to interpretation Catholic teaching can be - the very thing RCs promote the magisterium as being the answer to.

    You posted this in response to a list of papal teaching and the prohibition of public contradiction , and under the pretext of making "their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful" and having a "just and reasonable cause" RCs take it upon themselves to engage with those Rome (doctrinally) defines as "heretics," and publicly dissent from obedience to the pope, even with encyclicals, and often speak contrary to showing "reverence toward their pastors, and "the dignity of persons."

    You can argue that you do not agree with those who disparage your pope and prelates and "Christian faithful," but i do not see you censuring such, while you dismiss as excoms those whom Rome manifestly affirms as members those who conservative "true" Catholics reject.

    And besides the modern contradiction with past RC teaching (below), I am not impressed with Canon 1212 or your interpretation of it as sanctioning even your debates. At best Canon 1212 is too broad and ambiguous to do so, and you are not simply making your opinions known to the "Christian faithful" - which would to be "faithful" as per Rome would mean Catholics as per canon 831 which forbids writing in media which are accustomed to attack openly the Catholic religion, as we do here - but are engaging in debate with "heretics" as per heretical Rome, as well as non-Christians.

    All in all, what we have are RCs not following leadership with its current application/interpretation/clarification of historical RC teaching as docile sheep, but setting themselves up as judges of what is valid Catholic teaching based upon their interpretation of what that is, and interpreting modern teaching as sanctioning this.

    For paradoxically, it is often traditional RCs who oppose modern changes who invoke canon 212 as supporting their public protests, yet canon 212 is a modernist adaptation to free speech values, without which then they would not be able to invoke canon law as supporting their public protests and debates, based upon their interpretation of it.

    For in the past, RC were enjoined,

    We furthermore forbid any lay person to engage in dispute, either private or public, concerning the Catholic Faith. Whosoever shall act contrary to this decree, let him be bound in the fetters of excommunication. — Pope Alexander IV (1254-1261) in “Sextus Decretalium”, Lib. V, c. ii: http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Religious_Discussions

    Commenting on this, the Catholic Encyclopedia states, in part,

    This law, like all penal laws, must be very narrowly construed. The terms Catholic Faith and dispute have a technical signification. The former term refers to questions purely theological; the latter to disputations more or less formal, and engrossing the attention of the public.... ..but when there is a question of dogmatic or moral theology, every intelligent layman will concede the propriety of leaving the exposition and defense of it to the clergy. But the clergy are not free to engage in public disputes on religion without due authorization...That this legislation is still in force appears from the letter addressed to the bishops of Italy by Cardinal Rampolla in the name of the Cong. for Ecclesiastical Affairs (27 Jan., 1902) - www.newadvent.org/cathen/05034a.htm

    Can. 831 §1 Unless there is a just and reasonable cause, no member of Christ's faithful may write in newspapers, pamphlets or periodicals which clearly are accustomed to attack the catholic religion or good morals. Clerics and members of religious institutes may write in them only with the permission of the local Ordinary. - http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_P2P.HTM

    “the Church forbids the faithful to communicate with those unbelievers who have forsaken the faith they once received, either by corrupting the faith, as heretics, or by entirely renouncing the faith, as apostates, because the Church pronounces sentence of excommunication on both.” St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica; http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3010.htm

    And currently,

    Can. 831 §1 Unless there is a just and reasonable cause, no member of Christ's faithful may write in newspapers, pamphlets or periodicals which clearly are accustomed to attack the catholic religion or good morals. Clerics and members of religious institutes may write in them only with the permission of the local Ordinary. - http://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0017/_P2P.HTM

  • Peter as rock

    06/15/2018 6:29:14 PM PDT · 464 of 492
    daniel1212 to ravenwolf
    So what he said in his own language is all that matters.

    The Spirit of Christ inspired the recording of what the Lord said in Greek, with it greater ranges of expression, and provided more and expanded revelation thereby. And as a study of duplicate accounts evidences, sometimes the Spirit of Christ rephrased or expanded (or contracted) on what the Lord said, in giving a more comprehensive revelation.

    Therefore we must go by the Greek. Meanwhile, what the Lord said is not all that matters, but what He meant, and there would be no debate if what He said was not taken to mean that Peter was the first of a line of infallible popes reigning over the church, to whose sppsd successors we are all supposed to look to (until their sppsdly Divinely guided church elects on they do not like.

    But as stated, a study of the words for rock and stone in the the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (including how they understood the OT and gospels), shows that this Rock was the subject of Peter's confession, not Peter himself, his humble street-level leadership notwithstanding.

  • Study: AC/DC’s ‘Highway To Hell’ More Theologically Accurate Than 96% Of Modern Worship Songs-SATIRE

    06/15/2018 9:55:53 AM PDT · 62 of 63
    daniel1212 to FNU LNU
    By the way, all the passages you refer to in your length response are dealt with in the link I posted much earlier. Did you take any time to examine that serious study? If not, why should I respond to your lengthy one?

    I was dealing with the overall denial of eternal torment - which is the only reality that would have much of a deterrent effect which would warrant the equivalent of plucking your eye out versus fulfilling lusts for decades and simply facing annihilation - but i hope to provide a analysis of your linked PDF (which format is not designed to be quoted from) when i have the energy and time warrants it. .

  • Church attendance linked with reduced suicide risk, especially for Catholics, study says

    06/14/2018 6:31:51 PM PDT · 168 of 172
    daniel1212 to Mrs. Don-o
    I have never defended the disgraceful, scandalous violations of Canon Law by even the highest-positioned men in the Church. I noted, promptly, when it happened, Abortion Enthusiast Ted Kennedy’s grand funeral honors at the Cathedral in Boston, which looked and smelled like a canonization, when it should have featured a sermon on the terrible certainty of God’s Judgment and the chanting of the Dies Irae. Though I have decried Catholics’ failings frequently, perhaps I can leave it to you to do so continuously.

    And just who are you to charge your leadership with disgraceful, scandalous violations of Canon Law? You mean to tell me that the laity are to ascertain the validity of the words and actions of Catholic leadership, from the pope down, based upon their judgment of what valid Catholic teaching is and means?

    That essentially makes you a evangelical, who are to ascertain the validity of church teaching based upon their judgment of what ancient church teaching says. After all the NT church began in dissent from the judgment of the historical magisterium, as the laity ascertained an itinerant Preachers and His disciples were Scriptural men of God.

    In contrast, 'the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors," "to suffer themselves to be guided and led in all things that touch upon faith or morals by the Holy Church of God through its Supreme Pastor the Roman Pontiff," "of submitting with docility to their judgment," with "no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed... not only in person, but with letters and other public documents ;" and 'not limit the field in which he might and must exercise his authority, " for "obedience must not limit itself to matters which touch the faith: its sphere is much more vast: it extends to all matters which the episcopal power embraces," and not set up "some kind of opposition between one Pontiff and another. Those who, faced with two differing directives, reject the present one to hold to the past, are not giving proof of obedience to the authority which has the right and duty to guide them," "Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent." (Sources http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3578348/posts?page=14#14)

    And at one time the like of you were forbidden to engage in public debate the likes of me, while "religious submission of mind and of will" is required of non-definitive, non-infallible teaching of the universal Magisterium, which forbids public contradiction of the teaching.

    Religious assent (religiosum obsequium) has never been compatible with what the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith defines as "dissent," that is, "public opposition to the Magisterium of the Church" - http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19900524_theologian-vocation_en.html

  • Study: AC/DC’s ‘Highway To Hell’ More Theologically Accurate Than 96% Of Modern Worship Songs-SATIRE

    06/14/2018 6:01:22 PM PDT · 56 of 63
    daniel1212 to wbarmy; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; boatbums; ...

    In contrast to so many classic hymns: http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/WorshipHymns.html

  • Study: AC/DC’s ‘Highway To Hell’ More Theologically Accurate Than 96% Of Modern Worship Songs-SATIRE

    06/14/2018 11:58:58 AM PDT · 49 of 63
    daniel1212 to FNU LNU; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; boatbums; ...
    Our popular concept of hell is Roman Catholic tradition, pure and simple.

    You can only wish there was no eternal torment, which Rome and many other churches are as gates to for multitudes. The angels are not going to cast the tares into a garbage dump in Israel for not being goats (and not believing in the lamb of God), but such represent a literal reality. Those in Hades will end up in the Lake of Fire.

    And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 8:11-12)

    Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable. (Luke 3:17)

    There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. (Luke 13:28)

    The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:41-42)

    So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:49-50)Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 22:13)

    The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 24:50-51)

    And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 25:30)

    When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: (Matthew 25:31-32) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (Matthew 25:41) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:46)

    And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. (Mark 9:43-48)

    And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. (Luke 16:22-24)

    Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Luke 16:27-28)

    Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. (2 Thessalonians 1:9-10)

    The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (Revelation 14:10-11)

    And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Revelation 19:20)

    And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

    Note: attempting to disallow eternal torment on disputable grammatical grounds cannot prevail since it is hardly tenable that the Lord's dire warnings, including hacking off appendage or gouging out eyes to avoid be cast into unquenchable hell fire, would have much of a deterrent effect if this simply refers to being burned up. Being able to indulge in decades of fulfilling lusts in exchange for momentary punishment would be considered worth it by most who seek to fulfill such.

    Moreover, people will be cast into the same lake of fire the devil will, who shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever, and the beast and false prophet were still there after 1,000 years.

    In addition,the account of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31 not a parable, in which real names are never used, and which stories employ known physical realities which correspond to spiritual realities (i.e. "tares" = "the children of the wicked"), and never teach science fiction in this correspondence. However, if there is no such thing as being cognizant of torment after death, then for the first and only time the Lord would be engaging in science fiction. And it is also stretch to make the rich man in Hell correspond to some mere spiritual reality that is not that of the afterlife and Hell.​

  • Church attendance linked with reduced suicide risk, especially for Catholics, study says

    06/14/2018 5:11:19 AM PDT · 166 of 172
    daniel1212 to Mrs. Don-o
    Though it's true that in a sense, Catholicity is permanent (not even excommunication takes away the permanent "mark" of baptism), it's baptism itself which is recognized as one's entry into the Catholic Church. All of my baptized RCIA students --- baptized in the Name of the Trinity in any church, Lutheran, Church of God in Christ, whatever --- are received by Confirmation, since they are already baptized, and we recognize that. So you can say all the validly baptized are, in that sense, Catholic. Even my husband, who was baptized in the Baptist church. The Catechism would call him certainly, but imperfectly, Catholic. Paragraph # 838 "Those who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church." I sometimes find it confusing when one word is used in different senses.

    The issue is not that Ted Kennedy Catholics are manifestly considered Catholic in the sense as your husband is, but as formally Catholic, members of your church of such standing as to be given ecclesiastical funerals, under the watchful eye of the Vatican no less. Thereby showing her interpretation of canon law, regardless and contrary to your rendering such to be excommunicated latae sentenciae. Biblical, what we do is the evidence of what we really believe, not mere professions. (Ja. 2:18)

    Of course, once again you have been corrected on this before , but continue in your compelled defense of error.

  • Church attendance linked with reduced suicide risk, especially for Catholics, study says

    06/14/2018 5:11:06 AM PDT · 165 of 172
    daniel1212 to Mrs. Don-o
    I think the OT custom of praying for the dead (as in 2 Maccabees) influenced the early church, too, to pray for those who had died (as when Paul prayed for Onesiphorus). It shows up on the walls of the catacombs, which means quite early indeed: "Ora pro me." This would be pointless if the person who had died had instantly gone to his final destination, Heaven or Hell.

    As you have been >shown before, 2 Maccabees was not part of your indisputable (for RCs) canon for most of your history, but regardless, this does not teach Purgatory, but instead it advocates offerings with prayers for those who were lost, who were clearly said to have died due to idolatry, that they yet might be in the resurrection (of the just), "in that he was mindful of the resurrection." (2 Maccabees 12:43)

    Thus all you can invoke this text from the Deuteros for is for praying for the dead, even for those who died due to mortal sin ("Now under the coats of every one that was slain they found things consecrated to the idols of the Jamnites, which is forbidden the Jews by the law. Then every man saw that this was the cause wherefore they were slain...they saw before their eyes the things that came to pass for the sins of those that were slain" - 2 Maccabees 12:40,42), for whom according to Rome there is no hope.

    Thus RCs must resort to special pleading that maybe they repented in their dying moments, but died anyway due to idolatry. And again, the offerings for them was in hope that they may see the resurrection, which those in purgatory are assured of, not that they may escape from purgatory.

    Thus if you want to use this verse as instruction for praying for the dead, then you could conceivably even pray for Hitler to be part of the resurrection of the just, but not that he might get out of Purgatory, since in erroneous RC theology. being in that place constitutes assurance of salvation.

    However, while the Holy Spirit records approx. 200 prayers in Scripture in exampling and teaching how to pray and exhorting the same, there are zero prayers to Heaven anywhere in Scripture addressed to anyone in Heaven but God, except by pagans.

    And praying for the dead was a latter development among some Jews, flowing from paganism.

    ...it should come as no surprise that we do find instances, particularly in the domain of popular belief, in which non-Christians prayed for the suffering dead in the other world...

    These practices developed around the beginning of the Christian era. They were a phenomenon of the times, particularly noticeable in Egypt, the great meeting ground for peoples and religions. Traveling in Egypt around 50 s.c., Diodorus of Sicily was struck by the funerary customs: "As soon as the casket containing the corpse is placed on the bark, the survivors call upon the infernal gods and beseech them to admit the soul to the place received for pious men. The crowd adds its own cheers, together with pleas that the deceased be allowed to enjoy eternal life in Hades, in the society of the good.

    The passage cited earlier from the Second Book of Maccabees, which was composed by an Alexandrian Jew during the half-century preceding Diodorus's journey, should no doubt be seen against this background... It then becomes clear that at the time of Judas Maccabeus--around 170 s.c., a surprisingly innovative period—prayer for the dead was not practiced, but that a century later it was practiced by certain Jews. (The Birth of Purgatory By Jacques Le Goff. pp. 45,46 , transcribed using Free Online OCR - convert scanned PDF and images to Word, JPEG to Word, emp. mine)

    Also, as for these Maccabean Jews, a Jewish site tells us that the rededication of the Temple was,

    led by Judas Maccabeus, third son of Mattathias the Hasmonean, whose successors established the Hasmonean high priesthood dynasty. But which were not a valid high priesthood due to invalid lineage, (Genesis 49:10) being not of the lineage of David, as the Zadoks were, and their line ended up opening the door to the Roman conquest. Their control ended when Herod eliminated every male in the Hasmonean line. (Though The Herodian Dynasty had Hasmonean blood thru two sons and two daughters. through Mariamne.)

    Due to the unpopularity of its founders, Hanukkah itself came to be largely ignored within a few decades after its origins. Then when Rome’s crushing power began to be felt in Palestine, the people recognized in Hanukkah a message of hope that new Maccabees would rise and independence would be restored. - The Hasmonean Dynasty | My Jewish Learning