Posts by daniel1212

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  • The Heős Hou polemic is over: Radio Debate Matatics VS White & Svendsen on Perpetual Virginity Mary

    06/25/2017 10:06:12 AM PDT · 52 of 52
    daniel1212 to Iowegian
    And that's Bob Sungenis. He can listen to Matatics self-destruct on the level of not even being able to read a lexical entry properly and that doesn't even create a blip on his radar screen. Why? "Cuz Rome rules! WE ARE #1!" Just as the Cardinals will only get to the Super Bowl by purchasing tickets to it in 2008 (here in Phoenix), Rome will only get you the consolation prize of deception now, and destruction at the final judgment.

    An old thread I came across, but to which I would add that since this time [2003] geocentrist Sungenis apparently has much become a SSPX type traditionalist, and in conflict with some other Catholic apologists on the net.

    Meanwhile, as regards the linguistic argument at issue, here is an extensive examination of the basic argument by one who has quite a resume of scholarship, Robert Dean Luginbill, Ph.D. Greek here:http://ichthys.com/mail-Mary-full-of-grace.htm

    The phrase "hapax legomenon" is applied to the unique occurrence of a word in a corpus. It is not applied to the every specific form a word may take. In Greek, any given verb can potentially have hundreds of different forms (depending upon how one counts these). Therefore in any highly inflected language – like Greek, Hebrew, Latin, and virtually all of the ancient languages – trying to carry this concept which rightly belongs to core words over to individual forms is ludicrous. The word charitoo is not a true "hapax" in the Bible because it occurs more than 'once' (which is what hapax means), and because of the wide variety of forms any verb or substantive in Greek can manifest it makes no sense to apply this term to an individual form of a word and call it a "hapax" (or, alternatively, one can say such a thing, it's just that saying such a thing is meaningless). The point behind identifying a word as a hapax legomenon" (i.e., "mentioned/said only once [in the corpus]") is generally that one has very little information about what the word might mean precisely because it only occurs "once".

    If a word is a "hapax" only in a particular author or specialized corpus but appears elsewhere in the language, then the value of this "uniqueness" is greatly reduced. When one has multiple contexts to judge from, one is not in the same position as in the case of a true "hapax" where there is indeed only one single context on which to base one's decision about what a word might mean. As the matter at hand actually stands, moreover, in the case of charitoo, we have an abundance of riches: 1) it occurs elsewhere in the NT; 2) it occurs widely in the literature elsewhere; 3) it is a simple verbal formation on a very well attested noun – so much so as to make its essential meaning so crystal clear that even if this verb only occurred here in all of Greek literature there would still not be any serious doubt as to its meaning.

    Your correspondent does not really quibble with the essential meaning of the verb as reflected in every dictionary and every version, namely, "to bestow grace/favor upon". Where you correspondent falls down – and where he over-reaches the Greek scholars he is consulting – is in his attempt to take a simple verb form and make it bear a meaning it cannot bear. You mention that this fellow "really didn't mean that the Greek perfect form here meant that Mary was "perfect", but that is the essence of his argument. His translation is "Having been Graced with all Possible Grace both past present and future." Further he says that the "past" part means that "Mary was saved before ever falling in to sin". Clearly, this person's argument is entirely dependent upon making the perfect tense "magical" in the sense of infusing 'perfection,' even if he is trying to couch this lunacy in grammatical-sounding expressions:

    Hi Dr. Luginbill--Once again, I have a question for you about "full of grace". You pointed out that Eph. 1:6 uses the same verb and it doesn't mean "full of grace" there, and therefore, "sinless". A Catholic correspondent has found this by some scholar or other; what do you think of his argument?

    This argument is silly. Tense stems in Greek (and there are really only three which matter in such things: aorist, perfect, present) reflect 'aspect', which is something we have in English too (i.e., 'I go' = simple point action akin to the Greek aorist stem, vs. 'I am going' = repetitive action akin to the Greek present stem). These are not "magic", and investing them with layers of meaning invisible to the human eye and untranslatable into English is always a huge mistake (or a deliberate attempt to deceive). The Greek perfect has a meaning very similar to the English perfect, while the Greek aorist is very similar in meaning to the English past. By very similar I mean "essentially indistinguishable in the indicative mood". The only reason this issue of aspect even comes up is because Greek uses the different tense stems in places where we are no longer able to do so in English (i.e., while English users are generally unaware they even use a subjunctive, in Greek we can choose between present and aorist subjunctives in all contingent subordinate clause situations). This person's argument seems to rest entirely upon his quotation of Smyth. However, he misquotes Smyth by leaving out a critical part of the statement.

    ..If the perfect tense could do all the author claims, then every time it says anything about "knowing" in scripture (for oida is perfective in all of its forms), it would mean "knowing with a perfect knowledge that was conceived in eternity past": such a convention of translation would lead only to utter nonsense (cf. Acts 16:3).

    More here , by God's grace.

    Then you have RC apologist Akin on whether kecharitomene literally and uniquely mens "full of grace:"

    A reader writes:

    I was watching EWTN earlier and it was mentioned that only two people in the New Testament are referred to as “full of grace” – Jesus (John 1:14) and Mary (Luke 1:28). Of course I thought this would be a really neat thing to mention to my Protestant friends (especially if we’re talking about Jesus and Mary being the New Adam and New Eve).

    BUT I wanted to go beyond the English and examine the original Greek – but I don’t know a lot about Greek! So I have two twofold questions:

    (1) does John 1:14 use kecharitomene as fully (pardon the pun) as Luke’s usage in 1:28 or does John 1:14 follow more closely to Acts 6:8 when Stephen is referred to as “full of grace and power”?

    John 1:14 says that Jesus was plErEs charitos, which literally means "full of grace." (Those capital Es arepresent etas, so pronounce them like the e in "they"; the word is thus pronounced PLAY-RACE).

    Luke 1:28 uses kecharitomene, which literally means "one who has been graced" or "woman who has been graced" (since the gender is female). It doesn't literally mean "full of grace," though that is defensible as a free translation.

    Acts 6:8 refers to Stephen as plErEs charitos, so again it's literally "full of grace" and just the same as the description used of Jesus in John 1:14.

    If it is the latter, (2) does that mean there really isn’t a literal “full of grace” parallel between Luke 1:28 and John 1:14 or can I find that literal parallel somewhere else in the New Testament?

    Not that I'm aware of, and I'd almost certainly be aware of it if there were. http://www.jimmyakin.org/2005/10/kecharitomene_q.html

  • U.S. Bishop: No Funerals, Communion for People in Same-Sex ‘Marriages’

    06/25/2017 5:15:45 AM PDT · 49 of 51
    daniel1212 to Mrs. Don-o; HarleyD; metmom; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; ...
    Bishops' opinions on Muslims are just that --- opinions --- some manifestly wise, some manifestly not. Correcting the erring brother is always a good thing. Even if the erring brother is your bishop. Cf Canon 212

    That attitude essentially makes you an evangelical, since rather than your one duty being to follow your pastors as docile sheep, then it is your duty to ascertain the veracity of what is taught by examination of it in the light of your supreme standard.

    And which is what had led to the SSPV and SSPX divisions, yet is inconsistent with so much past historical RC teaching, while your dissent and theirs actually testifies to how Catholic teaching itself is indeed much subject to interpretation. Which, as regards Scripture being subject to the same, RCs tell us we need to submit to Rome for, which teaching and leadership they make subject to their interpretations.

    Now according to your interpretation, how do you see Canon 212 as saying that your judgment on what "represents Christ" can trump the judgment of your overall leadership? How can we be sure your judgement is correct?

    And that you are sanctioned to make your conflicting opinion known on a public forum (esp. as a mere peon in rank), and that this is consistent with past RC teaching? And that such teaching is not subject to interpretation?

    Also, thus far, your bishops overall judgment on canon law and on Muslims is validly subject to correction by you on a public forum, but what else may be added? Papal Encyclicals (including Social Encyclicals) Bulls? V2? The CCC? Anything less than so-called "infallible teachings?" How many are there?

  • U.S. Bishop: No Funerals, Communion for People in Same-Sex ‘Marriages’

    06/25/2017 5:15:09 AM PDT · 48 of 51
    daniel1212 to Arthur McGowan; LadyDoc
    Keep in mind that Cardinal Sean O’Malley was present. He can’t get enough of snuggling with the Kennedys, Kerrys, Bidens, etc. The fact that a priest was skulking around as Kennedy died was accepted as a sign that Kennedy died a Catholic. The fact that no priest gets near a Kennedy without being a pro-abortion lifelong Democrat, and that no public statement of repentance was made, was ignored.

    Well, that is your church (not that of the NT ), and your brethren according to what it manifestly believes ("I will shew thee my faith by my works" - James 2:18). not

  • U.S. Bishop: No Funerals, Communion for People in Same-Sex ‘Marriages’

    06/25/2017 5:13:55 AM PDT · 47 of 51
    daniel1212 to papertyger; Old Yeller
    But what do things like holy water sprinkled on the casket and incense scattered about, do for a dead body?

    The same thing the preacher giving the date the deceased "got saved" does.

    So there is no such thing as a "day of salvation" when one passes from death unto life, by effectual faith purifying the heart, or does this only occur via the act itself of sprinkling water, even on a morally cognizant innocent soul?

  • U.S. Bishop: No Funerals, Communion for People in Same-Sex ‘Marriages’

    06/24/2017 7:18:56 PM PDT · 45 of 51
    daniel1212 to Mrs. Don-o
    The “interpretation” is already there in Canon Law. There only remains to say, is this being followed, or not?

    No (the devil can be in the details), for as said, what constitutes "repentance before death" as well as what would qualify as "public scandal of the faithful" are indeed subject to interpretation, and manifestly so.

    Rather than doing what RCs insist we must do, which is to submit as docile sheep to the pope and his prelates as the interpreters of Scripture, and certainly of church teaching (and which also includes what your bishops say about Muslims), then you presume to correct them, which i do as well.

  • U.S. Bishop: No Funerals, Communion for People in Same-Sex ‘Marriages’

    06/24/2017 6:33:12 AM PDT · 35 of 51
    daniel1212 to HarleyD
    Pope Benedict even graciously responded to a letter from Teddy K. piously stating that he “never failed to believe and respect the fundamental teachings” of his church, and tried to be a faithful Catholic, etc.. Not a word of remorse about supporting abortion or promoting homosexual rights - which were part of his fight against discrimination, or promoting indolence and a welfare state.

    And what see from the report of the papal response is no chastisement, but it read in part: "The Holy Father ... was saddened to know of your illness, and has asked me to assure you of his concern and his spiritual closeness. He is particularly grateful for your promise of prayers for him and for the needs of the universal church.

    "His Holiness prays that in the days ahead you may be sustained in faith and hope, and granted the precious grace of joyful surrender to the will of God our merciful father. He invokes upon you the consolation and peace promised by the risen Savior to all who share in his sufferings and trust in his promise of eternal life.."

    "Commending you and the members of your family to the loving intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Holy Father cordially imparts his apostolic blessing as a pledge of wisdom, comfort and strength in the Lord." (http://www.thebostonpilot.com/articleprint.asp?id=10800

    And who was given a church funeral, as was Chavez, Mayor Menino, etc, thus showing their interpretation of canon law. Who needs to be openly preaching that sodomy and abortion are not sins when publicly known promoters of such are not Biblically disciplined but even graciously affirmed as members?

  • U.S. Bishop: No Funerals, Communion for People in Same-Sex ‘Marriages’

    06/24/2017 6:33:03 AM PDT · 34 of 51
    daniel1212 to Mrs. Don-o; HarleyD
    I’m not arguing from private interpretation. I’m arguing from Canon Law. People who violate Canon Law are objectively in the wrong: even a Bishop. Even a Pope

    Wrong: you are arguing about interpretation of canon law, for which RCs are too look to their prelates.

    As showed you

    And the local ordinary, no doubt with Ratzinger's knowledge, gave Teddy K and like anti-Christ pols ecclesiastical funerals, and which effectually conveys to the flock how canon law is to be understood, and again to which they are to look.

    What constitutes "repentance before death" means as well as what would qualify as "public scandal of the faithful" are subject to interpretation, and faithful RCs are not to be like evangelicals who examine the source to ascertain the warrant for a meaning, for "the [Roman] Church is essentially an unequal society, that is, a society comprising two categories of per sons, the Pastors and the flock...the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors." - VEHEMENTER NOS, an Encyclical of Pope Pius X promulgated on February 11, 1906.

    Epistola Tua: To the shepherds alone was given all power to teach, to judge, to direct; on the faithful was imposed the duty of following their teaching, of submitting with docility to their judgment , and of allowing themselves to be governed, corrected, and guided by them in the way of salvation. — Apostolic Letter of Pope Leo XIII (1885)

    While according to your knowledge, competence, and prestige, you may make your opinion known on matters as this to your pastors with reverence toward them, and make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, (Can. 212) - though in the past laity were forbidden to engage in public debate on such an issue as this - yet it is their judgment that is authoritative in Catholicism. Otherwise you must sanction schismatics who

  • WEEKLY GARDEN THREAD JUNE 23, 2017

    06/23/2017 7:24:28 PM PDT · 57 of 118
    daniel1212 to Black Agnes; MomwithHope
  • WEEKLY GARDEN THREAD JUNE 23, 2017

    06/23/2017 7:16:22 PM PDT · 56 of 118
    daniel1212 to greeneyes
    Here in MA we have a month to go to see any squash or many ripe tomatoes, but what are missing are the bees. I saw only the 2nd one this month, after a below average cool May.

    Meanwhile,

    Farming robots get to grips with weeding at Harper Adams

    6/23/2017, 11:05:53 AM · by Rebelbase · 17 replies
    BBC ^ | 6/23/17 | David Gregory-Kumar
    Researchers at Harper Adams University in Shropshire are trying to sow, look after and then harvest a field of barley using only robots and autonomous vehicles. No humans are allowed into the pilot-plot at all. We covered the project when it started and again here. They call it "Hands Free Hectare" and in the office we call it "Robocrop". Long story short the team are actually doing pretty well with a field of barley shoots that looks healthy if a bit patchy here and there. In fact, they're doing so well with their combination of off-the-shelf tech and nifty engineering...
  • U.S. Bishop: No Funerals, Communion for People in Same-Sex ‘Marriages’

    06/23/2017 6:39:28 PM PDT · 16 of 51
    daniel1212 to Mrs. Don-o
    I believe Ted Kennedy’s funeral was a scandal and a violation of Canon Law.

    But you are not the one to decide that, but which rests with the local ordinary and all they way up to the pope. Who, in this case, wrote a cordial reply, with no manifest rebuke, and even thanking Ted for his prayers, in response to his letter, delivered by Pres. Obama, which expressed no repentance but based commended himself.

    If Benedict implicitly sanctioned the treatment of Teddy K. as a member, fit for a RC funeral, then it is hardly likely that your present pope, and those who elected him, would agree with your private interpretation.

  • U.S. Bishop: No Funerals, Communion for People in Same-Sex ‘Marriages’

    06/23/2017 6:32:23 PM PDT · 15 of 51
    daniel1212 to aMorePerfectUnion
    And for abortion promoting politicians??

    Speaking of which,

    N Pelosi says homosexuality is ‘consistent’ with Catholicism. Are Church leaders taking her lead?,

    You already know many of their names: Catholic Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, for whom ‘gay’ marriage is a ‘core principle;’ Catholic U.S. Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy, who invented a national right for genderless marriage; Catholic former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, who has performed genderless marriages; Catholic House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, who asserts same-sex “marriage” is perfectly "consistent" with Catholicism; Catholic New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, Catholic Virginia Senator and 2016 Hillary Clinton running mate Tim Kaine and many others who energetically advocate for homonormativity.

    At the same time, these Catholic VIPs are becoming increasingly incapable of discerning the difference between male and female and the significance of complementarity. They now promote transnormativity.   

    Clearly, something is awry with prevailing views of marriage and human dignity among our Catholic elites when sodomy constitutes marital consummation and genitalia is no longer indicative of gender.  

    The fact that they continue to enjoy full communion with the Church despite broadcasting lies which defy natural law and deny the Gospel has only served to embolden them and invite others to follow their lead.

    The minds of leading Catholics have sunk from dullness, to darkness, to depravity, and they are intent on dragging each of us down with them – by force of law, if necessary –  and if not us, our children.  

    The bigger picture Is worse.  Much worse

    Put aside the world of North American Catholic political and societal elites for a moment. A far more grave threat stares us in the face.

    What will happen when a critical mass of the Church’s prelates and clerics similarly untether themselves from truth? What will happen when they find the ways of the world more attractive than the message of the Gospel, trading the Church’s magnificent magisterium for the whim of popular culture?  

    We are about to find out.

    Nudging away from truth, nullifying the work of the Holy Spirit

    Some high profile priests and bishops seem to be drawn to promoting the worldly empty promises Catholics reject at baptism: Fr. James Martin, SJ, editor-at-large for the Jesuit magazine America, recently appointed to the Vatican as a communications consultant; Joseph Cardinal Tobin, C.Ss.R., Archbishop of Newark, New Jersey; Bishop John Stowe of the Diocese of Lexington in Kentucky; Archbishop Vincenzo Paglia, now at the helm of the Pontifical Academy for Life and the Pontifical Pope John Paul II Institute for Studies on Marriage and Family.

    While the Vatican seems to be collecting and promoting pro-homosexualists and transgenderists, the nudge toward accepting these strange humanity-deforming ideologies is palpable here at home in North America.

    Just recently, the Diocese of San Diego announced that Fr. John Dolan, a priest with an LGBT-positive record, has been appointed by the Vatican to be an auxiliary bishop.

    In the Archdiocese of Baltimore, St. Matthew’s Parish has been promoting homosexuality and its compatibility with Catholicism for years.  

    In the Archdiocese of New York, Blessed Sacrament Church announced that its “Gay Fellowship” group partnered with Lady Gaga’s “Born This Way Foundation” to hold a fundraising dance in the parish hall on June 17.

    Even the Jesuit Chaplain to the U.S. House of Representatives, Patrick J. Conroy, suggests that Church teaching on homosexuality is “outdated,” calling it “a dead end.”  He implies that homosexual “marriage” is the only path to happiness for the same-sex attracted... Life Site News ^ | June 22, 2017 | DOUG MAINWARING

  • U.S. Bishop: No Funerals, Communion for People in Same-Sex ‘Marriages’

    06/23/2017 6:19:51 PM PDT · 10 of 51
    daniel1212 to marshmallow; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; kinsman redeemer; BlueDragon; metmom; boatbums; ...
    Those in same-sex "marriages" shouldn't present themselves to or be admitted to Holy Communion,

    Which in Catholicism is itself a corruption of what was manifestly believed by the NT church of Scripture .

    nor may they receive a Catholic funeral if they died without showing signs of repentence, Illinois Bishop Thomas Paprocki says.

    It's usually spelled "repentance" but even Teddy K was judged to have (invisibly) shown repentance and like other notorious pro-abortion, pro-sodomite public figures, was granted an ecclesiastical funeral, thus interpreting canon law for the multitudes which otherwise forbids it.

  • Jesus Christ And The Early Christian Church

    06/23/2017 6:04:31 PM PDT · 495 of 495
    daniel1212 to af_vet_1981
    The "he" in the root noun drops in favor the plural "vav" "tau" and "yodh" is added for first person possessive.

    Fine, yet regardless of the warrant for "my," it remains that as said, "you cannot certainly get that the church of Rome is the supreme infallible deterministic authority on Truth" out of that text, regardless of how many double posts you make.

  • Scripture and Tradition

    06/23/2017 5:59:40 PM PDT · 366 of 369
    daniel1212 to imardmd1
    It is worthy of note that crucifixion is not an instant process. Though its end is sure, it takes time.

    "Worthy of note!" I'll say. If our positional crucifixion by faith in the risen Lord Jesus, and signified by baptism, was indeed the practical reality in every believer, then there would be little left in the church epistles.

    The problem with a living sacrifice (cf. Rm./ 12:1) is that is can crawl of the altar.

  • The Silence of the Lambs: Are Protestants concealing a Catholic-size sexual abuse scandal?

    06/23/2017 4:33:26 AM PDT · 76 of 76
    daniel1212 to Morgana
    I know being fatherless is a major detrimental factor, and one that Scripture in particular focuses, and what you surmise has some merit.

    But overall what i think what we are seeing are the result of teachers raised in the sexual revolution, out of colleges that are largely brothels, and thus see nothing wrong with fornication with anyone.

  • Scripture and Tradition

    06/22/2017 6:12:48 PM PDT · 356 of 369
    daniel1212 to MHGinTN
    Any RC who describes "saved by faith alone" as meaning faith that is alone is either ignorant or engaging in deception, or is referring those who likewise are either ignorant or engaging in deception as to what sola fide historically meant.

    Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and His righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification;(d) yet is it not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love.(e) - http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/westminster-confession-faith/

    In his Introduction to Romans, Luther stated that saving faith is, a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn’t stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever.. .Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire! [http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/luther-faith.txt]

    “This is why St. Luke and St. James have so much to say about works, so that one says: Yes, I will now believe, and then he goes and fabricates for himself a fictitious delusion, which hovers only on the lips as the foam on the water. No, no; faith is a living and an essential thing, which makes a new creature of man... if I have previously seen a sinner, I now see in his changed conduct, manner and life, that he believes . So high and great a thing is faith.”[Sermons of Martin Luther 2.2:341]

    This is what I have often said, if faith be true, it will break forth and bear fruit. If the tree is green and good, it will not cease to blossom forth in leaves and fruit. It does this by nature. I need not first command it and say: Look here, tree, bear apples. For if the tree is there and is good, the fruit will follow unbidden. If faith is present works must follow.” [Sermons of Martin Luther 2.2:340-341]

    “We must therefore most certainly maintain that where there is no faith there also can be no good works; and conversely, that there is no faith where there are no good works . Therefore faith and good works should be so closely joined together that the essence of the entire Christian life consists in both.” [Martin Luther, as cited by Paul Althaus, The Theology of Martin Luther [Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1963], 246, footnote 99]

    What Augustine says is indeed true: He who has created you without yourself will not save you without yourself. Works are necessary for salvation, but they do not cause salvation; for faith alone gives life...Works save externally, that is, they testify that we are just and that in a man there is that faith which saves him internally, as Paul says: ‘With the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation’.” [What Luther Says 3: 1509]. [Ewald M. Plass, “What Luther says,” page 1509]

    if obedience and God’s commandments do not dominate you, then the work is not right, but damnable, surely the devil’s own doings , although it were even so great a work as to raise the dead...And St. Peter says, Ye are to be as faithful, good shepherds or administrators of the manifold grace of God; so that each one may serve the other, and be helpful to him by means of what he has received, 1 Peter 4:10. See, here Peter says the grace and gifts of God are not one but manifold, and each is to tend to his own, develop the same and through them be of service to others.” [Sermons of Martin Luther 1:244]

    Christ is the priest, all men are spiritual lepers because of unbelief; but when we come to faith in him he touches us With his hand, gives and lays upon us his merit and we become clean and whole without any merit on our part whatever. We are therefore to show our gratitude to him and acknowledge that we have not become pious by our own works, but through his grace, then our course will be right before God...[Sermons of Luther 1:152]

  • Scripture and Tradition

    06/22/2017 5:55:17 PM PDT · 355 of 369
    daniel1212 to MHGinTN
    May I add one point? ... A certain saved member of a Corinthian assembly was having his own mother as his wife. Paul admonished the assembly to put that one out for satan's destruction of his body so that his soul might be saved. Such an one will stand before the Bema Seat IN HEAVEN, 'naked' having escaped the Judgment as if by fire.

    I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:6-15)

    The judgment seat of Christ, which all will appear before, will manifest the manner of workmanship each one built the church with - which every believer is doing, directly or indirectly, by commission of omission - with one gaining or losing rewards based upon his labor (yet which God really deserves credit for, for all things are of Him. )

    But i do not think any will be without any rewards, or that many will be without some loss, at least if they were born again for long. Saving faith is that which effects obedience - "My sheep hear my voice and follow Me..." (Jn 10:27). Yet "in many things we offend all." (James 3:2)

    And as regards the grave incestuous man of 1Cor. 5, the purpose of the chastisement was not to save the man as by fire, but to bring necessary repentance by the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 5:5)

    But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:32)

  • Scripture and Tradition

    06/22/2017 4:55:12 AM PDT · 344 of 369
    daniel1212 to boatbums
    Much appreciated. Thanks be to God, but not all feel the same way!
  • Jesus Christ And The Early Christian Church

    06/22/2017 4:54:34 AM PDT · 491 of 495
    daniel1212 to af_vet_1981
    AntiCatholicism is not Christianity and is a stumbling block in recognizing the Messiah in the one holy catholic apostolic church.

    Rather, regardless of compelled assertions, rejection of antiCatholicism is not Christianity and is a stumbling block in recognizing the Messiah in the one holy catholic apostolic church, since it remains that Catholicism is the most manifest corruption of the NT church, with her distinctive not being manifest therein .

  • The Silence of the Lambs: Are Protestants concealing a Catholic-size sexual abuse scandal?

    06/22/2017 4:51:04 AM PDT · 74 of 76
    daniel1212 to Morgana
    You notice that to find out what’s going on in America’s public schools you have to read the Daily Mail UK? They sure tell you. Every day a new case of child sex abuse. More and more it’s a female teacher too! Sometimes have seen as many as three (3) stores posted in one day on that news forum.

    Yet the side bar (based on a few investigative glances i should not do) has soft porn.

    Who are these people doing this and why the sudden surge? Certainly don’t remember this happening when I was in school. What is different? What changed? I want to go back to the 80’s or 70’s when things were not this crazy

    Never happened in my schooling either, but the teachers today are overall products of the 60's revolution, inspired by the original rebel, and these proxy servants did as he did, climbing up some other way to power, taking over the admin office, and promoting perverse alternatives to what God has ordained.

    In rebellion against, and in contrast to Americans early evangelical ethos. .

    While iniquity was always a significant part of America, it was generally held as shameful and overall resisted by Church and State. Early on, in a pamphlet for Europeans titled Information to Those Who Would Remove to America (1754), Benjamin Franklin wrote, in part:

    “ ...serious religion, under its various denominations, is not only tolerated, but respected and practiced. Atheism is unknown there; Infidelity rare and secret; so that persons may live to a great age in that country without having their piety shocked by meeting with either an Atheist or an Infidel. And the Divine Being seems to have manifested His approbation of the mutual forbearance and kindness by which the different sects treat each other, and by the remarkable prosperity with which He has been please to favor the whole country.

    From Moral decline