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Posts by Elsie

Brevity: Headers | « Text »
  • Why Socialism Draws Crowds in Iowa

    06/01/2015 6:54:04 PM PDT · 32 of 33
    Elsie to redgolum

    yup

    Reaping the whirlwind

  • Why Socialism Draws Crowds in Iowa

    06/01/2015 6:53:07 PM PDT · 31 of 33
    Elsie to Kaslin

    Why just Iowa?

    Free stuff will ALWAYS draw a crowd!

  • Why Context is Important – the Lesson of Caesarea Philippi

    06/01/2015 6:52:02 PM PDT · 27 of 30
    Elsie to MHGinTN

    bump

  • Why I am No Longer a Dispensationalist

    06/01/2015 6:51:07 PM PDT · 830 of 831
    Elsie to Elsie

    bump again

  • BREAKING: Pope takes major step toward formal heresy

    06/01/2015 6:50:24 PM PDT · 740 of 777
    Elsie to Mark17
    Els meister, does this mean, that Joe Smith and St Peter are BOTH are at the Pearly Gates?

    No.

    It means that nobody tends to read for content; in context; these days.

  • The Polygamists are Coming!

    06/01/2015 6:47:52 PM PDT · 43 of 54
    Elsie to 22202NOVA

    Slightly off topic; but I knew a fella, who had a sister.

    He married a lady who had a brother.

    The sister and brother got married to each other.

    Genetically, the children of each marriage were more like brothers and sisters than cousins.

    (Would that make his sister also his sister-in-law?)

  • The Polygamists are Coming!

    06/01/2015 6:44:34 PM PDT · 42 of 54
    Elsie to 22202NOVA

    heh heh heh...

  • The Polygamists are Coming!

    06/01/2015 6:43:06 PM PDT · 41 of 54
    Elsie to oldfart
    That should be enough for the uber-religionists to trot out their arguments about God ordaining marriage as between one man and one woman.

    To get past that dead-horse, let me point out that NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE does it say that.

    Oh?


    Genesis 2

     

    18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”   (not 4 or 5)

    19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

    But for Adam no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.   (singular)  (Not a half rack)

    23 The man said,

    “This is now bone of my bones
        and flesh of my flesh;
    she shall be called ‘woman,’
        for she was taken out of man.

    24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

    25 Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.   (Not wives)

     

     

     

     Whinney!


  • The Polygamists are Coming!

    06/01/2015 6:36:10 PM PDT · 39 of 54
    Elsie to vpintheak
    They’ve worked hard and it’s paying off for them, while the rest of America slept thru it or has been apathetic to it.

    I think TOLERATED it comes closer...


     
    Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil ... a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment.
     Tolerance applies only to persons ... never to truth.
     
    America, it is said, is suffering from intolerance — it is not.
    It is suffering from tolerance.
    Tolerance of right and wrong, truth and error, virtue and evil, Christ and chaos.
    Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded.
     
     
    Fulton J. Sheen quote: "A Plea For Intolerance" (1931)
  • The Polygamists are Coming!

    06/01/2015 6:33:44 PM PDT · 38 of 54
    Elsie to tbw2
    What happens in group marriage when the two biological parents of a child are out-voted by the group on what to do with the kid?

    Ask CPS folks.

  • The Polygamists are Coming!

    06/01/2015 6:33:03 PM PDT · 37 of 54
    Elsie to freebilly

    I wonder what % will LIE about something?
    I wonder what % will STEAL something?
    I wonder what % will ...

    Seems like we are going to need a Savior!

  • The Polygamists are Coming!

    06/01/2015 6:31:34 PM PDT · 36 of 54
    Elsie to Fai Mao

    HEY!

  • The Polygamists are Coming!

    06/01/2015 6:31:08 PM PDT · 35 of 54
    Elsie to 2ndDivisionVet
    IIRC, the Bible says you’re married to every individual you have sex with.

    You mean THIS?


    1 Corinthians 6:16
    When you join yourself to a prostitute, you become one with her in body.

  • The Polygamists are Coming!

    06/01/2015 6:29:53 PM PDT · 34 of 54
    Elsie to Colofornian; StormPrepper; teppe; Normandy; WilliamRobert
    So, per Lds doctrine...as soon as Perry & his two wives arrives make it to the highest celestial kingdom...Perry becomes an eternal polygamist.

    Storm Prepper fully believes this.


    The Doctrine and Covenants

    Section 132

    Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.
    .
    .
    .
    58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.


     

    58 Now, as touching the law of the apriesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.

    59 Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was aAaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that bsent me, and I have endowed him with the ckeys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit dsin, and I will justify him.

    60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.

    61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

    62 And if he have aten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

    63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to amultiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be bglorified.

    64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.

    65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take aHagar to wife.

    66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.

  • The Polygamists are Coming!

    06/01/2015 6:27:55 PM PDT · 33 of 54
    Elsie to Alex Murphy
    I dunno - a 200+% jump in a decade isn't something to be ignored.

    Mere statistics...

    The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic.
    --Joseph Stalin


    We manage to IGNORE a million future Americans CHOICED to death each year; so why should this even make a blip on our moral radar?

  • The Polygamists are Coming!

    06/01/2015 6:25:17 PM PDT · 32 of 54
    Elsie to 2ndDivisionVet
    The Polygamists are Coming!

    And Cody is their leader!

  • A Gay Atheist Speaks a Timely Word to the Church

    06/01/2015 6:23:09 PM PDT · 13 of 14
    Elsie to reg45
    If he came running into MY church yelling, "The ROOF is on fire!"

    I'd darn sure pay attention!

    Remember all of the HEATHENS and the ass as well that GOD using to get HIS message into the thick skulls of the Jews?

  • Why Context is Important – the Lesson of Caesarea Philippi

    06/01/2015 4:29:12 PM PDT · 21 of 30
    Elsie to expat2
    Translations into other languages are notoriously prone to error, since many a word has slightly different meanings.

    Golly; that's just TOO bad!

    I guess everyone who has studied a little bit of the old languages is now qualified to...

    Be
    Their
    Own
    Interpreter...


    Ain't nobody got time fer dat!


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxrQmQ_kfDA

  • Why Context is Important – the Lesson of Caesarea Philippi

    06/01/2015 4:24:07 PM PDT · 20 of 30
    Elsie to expat2
    I will now post a cartoon with that title...


     
     
  • Why Context is Important – the Lesson of Caesarea Philippi

    06/01/2015 4:22:56 PM PDT · 19 of 30
    Elsie to expat2
    If Jesus was making a play on Peter’s name, then he was giving Peter the lead in propagating his Church, which is the Catholic point of view, and not referring to some nearby cliff.

    Your IF-THEN statement is not logical.


    #13


    Logical fallacies hide the truth, so pointing them out is very useful.
     
    1. Ad Hominem - Attacking the individual instead of the argument.
    Example: You are so stupid your argument couldn't possibly be true.
    Example: I figured that you couldn't possibly get it right, so I ignored your comment.
     
    2. Appeal to Force - Telling the hearer that something bad will happen to him if he does not accept the argument.
    Example: If you don't want to get beaten up, you will agree with what I say.
    Example: Convert or die.
     
    3. Appeal to Pity - Urging the hearer to accept the argument based upon an appeal to emotions, sympathy, etc.
    Example: You owe me big time because I really stuck my neck out for you.
    Example: Oh come on, I've been sick. That's why I missed the deadline.
     
    4. Appeal to the Popular - Urging the hearer to accept a position because a majority of people hold to it.
    Example: The majority of people like soda. Therefore, soda is good.
    Example: Everyone else is doing it. Why shouldn't you?
     
    5. Appeal to Tradition - Trying to get someone to accept something because it has been done or believed for a long time.
    Example: This is the way we've always done it. Therefore, it is the right way.
    Example: The Catholic church's tradition demonstrates that this doctrine is true.
     
    6. Begging the Question - Assuming the thing to be true that you are trying to prove. It is circular.
    Example: God exists because the Bible says so. The Bible is inspired. Therefore, we know that God exists.
    Example: I am a good worker because Frank says so. How can we trust Frank? Simple: I will vouch for him.
     
    7. Cause and Effect - Assuming that the effect is related to a cause because the events occur together.
    Example: When the rooster crows, the sun rises. Therefore, the rooster causes the sun to rise.
    Example: When the fuel light goes on in my car, I soon run out of gas. Therefore, the fuel light causes my car to run out of gas.
     
    8. Circular Argument - See Begging the Question
    Fallacy of Division - Assuming that what is true of the whole is true for the parts.
    Example: That car is blue. Therefore, its engine is blue.
    Example: Your family is weird. That means that you are weird too.
     
    9. Fallacy of Equivocation - Using the same term in an argument in different places but the word has different meanings.
    Example: A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Therefore, a bird is worth more than President Bush.
    Example: Evolution states that one species can change into another. We see that cars have evolved into different styles. Therefore, since evolution is a fact in cars, it is true in species.
     
    10. False Dilemma - Giving two choices when in actuality there could be more choices possible.
    Example: You either did knock the glass over or you did not. Which is it? (Someone else could have knocked the glass over)
    Example: Do you still beat your wife?
     
    11. Genetic Fallacy - Attempting to endorse or disqualify a claim because of the origin or irrelevant history of the claim.
    Example: The Nazi regime developed the Volkswagen Beetle. Therefore, you should not buy a VW Beetle because of who started it.
    Example: Frank just got out of jail last year; since it was his idea to start the hardware store, I can't trust him.
     
    12. Guilt by Association - Rejecting an argument or claim because the person proposing it likes someone whom is disliked by another.
    Example: Hitler liked dogs. Therefore dogs are bad.
    Example: Your friend is a thief. Therefore, I cannot trust you.
     
    13. Non Sequitur - Comments or information that do not logically follow from a premise or the conclusion.
    Example: We know why it rained today: because I washed my car.
    Example: I don't care what you say. We don't need any more bookshelves. As long as the carpet is clean, we are fine.
     
    14. Poisoning the Well - Presenting negative information about a person before he/she speaks so as to discredit the person's argument.
    Example: Frank is pompous, arrogant, and thinks he knows everything. So, let's hear what Frank has to say about the subject.
    Example: Don't listen to him because he is a loser.
     
    15. Red Herring - Introducing a topic not related to the subject at hand.
    Example: I know your car isn't working right. But, if you had gone to the store one day earlier, you'd not be having problems.
    Example: I know I forgot to deposit the check into the bank yesterday. But, nothing I do pleases you.
     
    16. Special Pleading (double standard) - Applying a standard to another that is different from a standard applied to oneself.
    Example: You can't possibly understand menopause because you are a man.
    Example: Those rules don't apply to me since I am older than you.
     
    17. Straw Man Argument - Producing an argument about a weaker representation of the truth and attacking it.
    Example: The government doesn't take care of the poor because it doesn't have a tax specifically to support the poor.
    Example: We know that evolution is false because we did not evolve from monkeys.
     
    18. Category Mistake - Attributing a property to something that could not possibly have that property. Attributing facts of one kind are attributed to another kind. Attributing to one category that which can only be properly attributed to another.
    Example: Blue sleeps faster than Wednesday.
    Example: Saying logic is transcendental is like saying cars would exist if matter didn't.
  • Roman Catholicism: The One True Church?

    06/01/2015 4:20:36 PM PDT · 842 of 846
    Elsie to editor-surveyor

    I think I know my audience.

    This is why I tend to post relatively short items that people can digest easily.

  • Why I am No Longer a Dispensationalist

    06/01/2015 4:18:49 PM PDT · 827 of 831
    Elsie to MHGinTN

    bump

  • BREAKING: Pope takes major step toward formal heresy

    06/01/2015 4:15:05 PM PDT · 736 of 777
    Elsie to verga

    Just like a True Scotsman would...

  • BREAKING: Pope takes major step toward formal heresy

    06/01/2015 4:13:54 PM PDT · 735 of 777
    Elsie to metmom
    The righteousness of Christ is credited to my account, so even if I were judged on my works, God would only see the works of Christ as if they were my own, so I’d be good anyway.

    Not if you're a Mormon.

    You ALSO gotta get past JS!

  • BREAKING: Pope takes major step toward formal heresy

    06/01/2015 4:13:12 PM PDT · 734 of 777
    Elsie to metmom

    ?

  • A Gay Atheist Speaks a Timely Word to the Church

    06/01/2015 12:14:27 PM PDT · 11 of 14
    Elsie to JoeFromSidney
    I strongly suspect that part of the problem has been a small but influential homosexual fraction of the priesthood.

    I happen to KNOW that the 'problem' is acerbated by the vast majority of good people who do nothing.


    Lightly lifted from Edmund Burke

  • A Gay Atheist Speaks a Timely Word to the Church

    06/01/2015 12:12:26 PM PDT · 10 of 14
    Elsie to Kaslin
    A Gay Atheist Speaks a Timely Word to the Church

    GOD speaks a TIMELESS message to Homosexuals:

     

    Genesis 13:13
    Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

    Genesis 18:20-21
    20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and
    their sin so grievous
    21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

    Genesis 19:4-7
    4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men
    from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
    5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them
    ."
    6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
    7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

    Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

    Doonesbury Cartoon for Feb/08/2013

    Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

    2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.


    Ezekiel 16:49-50
    49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
    50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.



    2 Peter 2

    1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
    2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
    3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
    4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
    5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
    6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
    7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
    8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
    9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
    10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
    11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
    12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
    13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done.
    Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.



    But there IS hope!!!

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11

    9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
    Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
    10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
    11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


    If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...
     

     
     
     
     
     
     


    The Health Risks of gay sex.

  • Why Context is Important – the Lesson of Caesarea Philippi

    06/01/2015 12:09:51 PM PDT · 15 of 30
    Elsie to expat2
    Now I need someone who knows both the original text and the Aramaic language.....

    Why?

    Have not multitudes of translations; by many hundreds of learned men; on all 57 sides of the aisle, already done this for us?

  • Why Context is Important – the Lesson of Caesarea Philippi

    06/01/2015 12:08:17 PM PDT · 14 of 30
    Elsie to expat2

    The words really don’t matter; the MEANING of the entire passage DOES!

  • Why Context is Important – the Lesson of Caesarea Philippi

    06/01/2015 12:07:26 PM PDT · 13 of 30
    Elsie to RnMomof7
    The Catholic tradition has taken Jesus’ pronouncement in Matther 16:18 to mean that Jesus was declaring that the church was to be built on the authority of Peter and the other disciples. It is true that they led the early church, so this would be a possible interpretation.

    The Protestant tradition has taken Jesus declaration here to say that His church was to be built upon the confession recognizing Him as the Messiah and the Son of the living God. This is a valid interpretation, as well, and is a practice supported by other scriptures.

    But many very prominent Catholic leaders and schaolars have declared:


    As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18, note the bishops promise in the profession of faith of Vatican 1,

     

    Likewise I accept Sacred Scripture according to that sense which Holy mother Church held and holds, since it is her right to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy scriptures; nor will I ever receive and interpret them except according to the unanimous consent of the fathers.http://mb-soft.com/believe/txs/firstvc.htm

    Yet as the Dominican cardinal and Catholic theologian Yves Congar O.P. states,

    Unanimous patristic consent as a reliable locus theologicus is classical in Catholic theology; it has often been declared such by the magisterium and its value in scriptural interpretation has been especially stressed. Application of the principle is difficult, at least at a certain level. In regard to individual texts of Scripture total patristic consensus is rare...One example: the interpretation of Peter’s confession in Matthew 16:16-18. Except at Rome, this passage was not applied by the Fathers to the papal primacy; they worked out an exegesis at the level of their own ecclesiological thought, more anthropological and spiritual than juridical. — Yves M.-J. Congar, O.P., p. 71

    And Catholic archbishop Peter Richard Kenrick (1806-1896), while yet seeking to support Peter as the rock, stated that,

    “If we are bound to follow the majority of the fathers in this thing, then we are bound to hold for certain that by the rock should be understood the faith professed by Peter, not Peter professing the faith.” — Speech of archbishop Kenkick, p. 109; An inside view of the vatican council, edited by Leonard Woolsey Bacon.

    Your own CCC allows the interpretation that, “On the rock of this faith confessed by St Peter, Christ build his Church,” (pt. 1, sec. 2, cp. 2, para. 424), for some of the ancients (for what their opinion is worth) provided for this or other interpretations.

    • Ambrosiaster [who elsewhere upholds Peter as being the chief apostle to whom the Lord had entrusted the care of the Church, but not superior to Paul as an apostle except in time], Eph. 2:20:

    Wherefore the Lord says to Peter: 'Upon this rock I shall build my Church,' that is, upon this confession of the catholic faith I shall establish the faithful in life. — Ambrosiaster, Commentaries on Galatians—Philemon, Eph. 2:20; Gerald L. Bray, p. 42

    • Augustine, sermon:

    "Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer.John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine , © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327

    Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18). John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 236A.3, p. 48.

    Augustine, sermon:

    For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, 'On this rock will I build my Church,' because Peter had said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus. The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins. For what the Church is essentially in Christ, such representatively is Peter in the rock (petra); and in this representation Christ is to be understood as the Rock, Peter as the Church. — Augustine Tractate CXXIV; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: First Series, Volume VII Tractate CXXIV (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.cxxv.html)

    Augustine, sermon:

    And Peter, one speaking for the rest of them, one for all, said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:15-16)...And I tell you: you are Peter; because I am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ; and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18); not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though; I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church. — John Rotelle, O.S.A. Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 270.2, p. 289

    Augustine, sermon:

    Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18)...Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 244.1, p. 95

    Augustine, sermon:

    ...because on this rock, he said, I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not overcome it (Mt. 16:18). Now the rock was Christ (1 Cor. 10:4). Was it Paul that was crucified for you? Hold on to these texts, love these texts, repeat them in a fraternal and peaceful manner. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1995), Sermons, Volume III/10, Sermon 358.5, p. 193

    Augustine, Psalm LXI:

    Let us call to mind the Gospel: 'Upon this Rock I will build My Church.' Therefore She crieth from the ends of the earth, whom He hath willed to build upon a Rock. But in order that the Church might be builded upon the Rock, who was made the Rock? Hear Paul saying: 'But the Rock was Christ.' On Him therefore builded we have been. — Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VIII, Saint Augustin, Exposition on the Book of Psalms, Psalm LXI.3, p. 249. (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf108.ii.LXI.html)

    • Augustine, in “Retractions,”

    In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: 'On him as on a rock the Church was built.'...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,' that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,' and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven.' For, 'Thou art Peter' and not 'Thou art the rock' was said to him. But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable. — The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1:.

    Basil of Seleucia, Oratio 25:

    'You are Christ, Son of the living God.'...Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it 'Peter,' perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: 'For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.' To whom be glory and power forever. — Oratio XXV.4, M.P.G., Vol. 85, Col. 296-297.

    Bede, Matthaei Evangelium Expositio, 3:

    You are Peter and on this rock from which you have taken your name, that is, on myself, I will build my Church, upon that perfection of faith which you confessed I will build my Church by whose society of confession should anyone deviate although in himself he seems to do great things he does not belong to the building of my Church...Metaphorically it is said to him on this rock, that is, the Saviour which you confessed, the Church is to be built, who granted participation to the faithful confessor of his name. — 80Homily 23, M.P.L., Vol. 94, Col. 260. Cited by Karlfried Froehlich, Formen, Footnote #204, p. 156 [unable to verify by me].

    • Cassiodorus, Psalm 45.5:

    'It will not be moved' is said about the Church to which alone that promise has been given: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' For the Church cannot be moved because it is known to have been founded on that most solid rock, namely, Christ the Lord. — Expositions in the Psalms, Volume 1; Volume 51, Psalm 45.5, p. 455

    Chrysostom (John) [who affirmed Peter was a rock, but here not the rock in Mt. 16:18]:

    Therefore He added this, 'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession. — Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew, Homily LIIl; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.LII.html)

    Cyril of Alexandria:

    When [Peter] wisely and blamelessly confessed his faith to Jesus saying, 'You are Christ, Son of the living God,' Jesus said to divine Peter: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church.' Now by the word 'rock', Jesus indicated, I think, the immoveable faith of the disciple.”. — Cyril Commentary on Isaiah 4.2.

    Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII):

    “For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.'

    “For all bear the surname ‘rock’ who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters.” — Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII), sect. 10,11 ( http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101612.htm)

    Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II): Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God. On it we can base an answer to every objection with which perverted ingenuity or embittered treachery may assail the truth."-- (Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II), para 23; Philip Schaff, editor, The Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers Series 2, Vol 9.

  • Roman Catholicism: The One True Church?

    06/01/2015 12:03:04 PM PDT · 840 of 846
    Elsie

    breathe!

  • Roman Catholicism: The One True Church?

    06/01/2015 12:02:12 PM PDT · 839 of 846
    Elsie to RitaOK

    Wanna tickle ‘em?

  • Roman Catholicism: The One True Church?

    06/01/2015 12:01:46 PM PDT · 838 of 846
    Elsie to knarf

    Oh heck!

    That’s half the fun of it!

    Do a cannonball just to get folks attention!

  • Rome, Her Saints, & the Gospel

    06/01/2015 12:00:06 PM PDT · 174 of 175
    Elsie to Al Hitan

    You seem determined to pick a fight.

  • Why I am No Longer a Dispensationalist

    06/01/2015 11:58:48 AM PDT · 817 of 831
    Elsie to HarleyD
    Galatians 3:15
    Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case.

    2Ti 3:16
    All scripture...


    No comment needed.

  • BREAKING: Pope takes major step toward formal heresy

    06/01/2015 11:56:21 AM PDT · 712 of 777
    Elsie to stonehouse01
    If a person doesn’t understand that we have free will, then the incredible choice that the Blessed Mother made in her Fiat will never be appreciated!

    The Sport or the Lounge model?

    CAn you post Scripture that shows Mary CHOOSING something?

  • BREAKING: Pope takes major step toward formal heresy

    06/01/2015 11:53:15 AM PDT · 711 of 777
    Elsie to StormPrepper
    Because you cherry pick everything.

    The opposite of cherrypicking must be ignoring.

    Like what MORMONs do by ignoring the very plain words of their GODs found here...


    The Doctrine and Covenants

    Section 132

    Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.
    .
    .
    .
    58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.


     

    58 Now, as touching the law of the apriesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.

    59 Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was aAaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that bsent me, and I have endowed him with the ckeys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit dsin, and I will justify him.

    60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.

    61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

    62 And if he have aten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

    63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to amultiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be bglorified.

    64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.

    65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take aHagar to wife.

    66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.

  • BREAKING: Pope takes major step toward formal heresy

    06/01/2015 11:51:28 AM PDT · 710 of 777
    Elsie to StormPrepper
    People have to follow the commandments of God and endure to end.

    And if they MISS one or BREAK one; then what?

  • BREAKING: Pope takes major step toward formal heresy

    06/01/2015 11:50:05 AM PDT · 709 of 777
    Elsie to StormPrepper
    If you teach anything other than this, you are not teaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Salt Lake City; we have a problem...


    "If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]
     
    There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith.
     
    "I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him.
     
    "It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"
     
    No man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
     
    If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.
     




    "He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."
    - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321
     
     
     
     
    "If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"
    - (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)
    There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"
    - Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
     
     
     
     
    "I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."
    - Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155
     
     
     
     
    "It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"
    - Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670


    They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.
    He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.
    He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.
    As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
    Who has made this so?
    Have I?
    Have this people?
    Have the world?
    No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.
    If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.
    If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.
    Can you pass without his inspection?
    No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
    In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.
    They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?
    They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
    Brigham Young,

    --JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

  • BREAKING: Pope takes major step toward formal heresy

    06/01/2015 11:48:54 AM PDT · 708 of 777
    Elsie to StormPrepper
    The prophets have said over and over that man is judged by his works, how can that happen if the works aren't his?

    Isn't it amazing what MORMON leave out to give a FALSE impression?


    Is a person's SALVATION determined by his works?

  • Whither Catholics’ Beliefs?

    06/01/2015 7:31:44 AM PDT · 52 of 56
    Elsie to Salvation; verga

    Nope.

    Proving you wrong again.

    (Thanks, verga, for this apologetic technique!)

  • Whither Catholics’ Beliefs?

    06/01/2015 7:30:00 AM PDT · 51 of 56
    Elsie to RnMomof7

    If Catholics want to push the oft-told fable; then THIS verse is where they should say Jesus ‘changed’ his name!

  • Whither Catholics’ Beliefs?

    06/01/2015 7:28:33 AM PDT · 50 of 56
    Elsie to MHGinTN
    To all on this Catholic caucus thread I would ...

    It IS???

  • Whither Catholics’ Beliefs?

    06/01/2015 7:27:08 AM PDT · 49 of 56
    Elsie to Cicero
    I should add that Peter’s name originally was Simon. But when He chose him, Jesus changed it to Peter (Petrus), which is the Latin for rock. But that should be familiar enough.

    Jesus CHANGED nothing.

    Familiar stories are not necessarily TRUE ones.



    NIV Matthew 4:18-19
     18.  As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen.
     19.  "Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
     
    NIV Matthew 8:14
      When Jesus came into Peter's house, he saw Peter's mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever.
     
    NIV Matthew 10:1-2
     1.  He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil  spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
     2.  These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
     
    NIV Matthew 14:28-31
     28.  "Lord, if it's you," Peter replied, "tell me to come to you on the water."
     29.  "Come," he said.   Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus.
     30.  But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, "Lord, save me!"
     31.  Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?"
     
    NIV Matthew 15:13-16
     13.  He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
     14.  Leave them; they are blind guides.  If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
     15.  Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."
     16.  "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
     

    As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'
    BEFORE the following verses came along.....


    NIV Matthew 16:13-18
     13.  When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
     14.  They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
     15.  "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
     16.  Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,  the Son of the living God."
     17.  Jesus replied, "
    Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
     18.  And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades  will not overcome it.
     19.  I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be  bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
  • Whither Catholics’ Beliefs?

    06/01/2015 7:25:01 AM PDT · 48 of 56
    Elsie to Cicero
    As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18, note the following bishops promise in the profession of faith of Vatican 1:

     Basil of Seleucia, Oratio 25:

    'You are Christ, Son of the living God.'...Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it 'Peter,' perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: 'For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.' To whom be glory and power forever. — Oratio XXV.4, M.P.G., Vol. 85, Col. 296-297.

    Bede, Matthaei Evangelium Expositio, 3:

    You are Peter and on this rock from which you have taken your name, that is, on myself, I will build my Church, upon that perfection of faith which you confessed I will build my Church by whose society of confession should anyone deviate although in himself he seems to do great things he does not belong to the building of my Church...Metaphorically it is said to him on this rock, that is, the Saviour which you confessed, the Church is to be built, who granted participation to the faithful confessor of his name. — 80Homily 23, M.P.L., Vol. 94, Col. 260. Cited by Karlfried Froehlich, Formen, Footnote #204, p. 156 [unable to verify by me].

    • Cassiodorus, Psalm 45.5:

    'It will not be moved' is said about the Church to which alone that promise has been given: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' For the Church cannot be moved because it is known to have been founded on that most solid rock, namely, Christ the Lord. — Expositions in the Psalms, Volume 1; Volume 51, Psalm 45.5, p. 455

    Chrysostom (John) [who affirmed Peter was a rock, but here not the rock in Mt. 16:18]:

    Therefore He added this, 'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession. — Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew, Homily LIIl; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.LII.html)

    Cyril of Alexandria:

    When [Peter] wisely and blamelessly confessed his faith to Jesus saying, 'You are Christ, Son of the living God,' Jesus said to divine Peter: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church.' Now by the word 'rock', Jesus indicated, I think, the immoveable faith of the disciple.”. — Cyril Commentary on Isaiah 4.2.

    Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII):

    “For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.'

    “For all bear the surname ‘rock’ who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters.” — Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII), sect. 10,11 ( http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101612.htm)

    Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II): Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God. On it we can base an answer to every objection with which perverted ingenuity or embittered treachery may assail the truth."-- (Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II), para 23; Philip Schaff, editor, The Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers Series 2, Vol 9.

  • Whither Catholics’ Beliefs?

    06/01/2015 7:24:10 AM PDT · 46 of 56
    Elsie to metmom
    Except those who trust Mary.

    Where would the world be without her?

    My Prayer to Our Mother Mary

    Hail and praise be unto thee, Mary, whom God Almighty has exalted above all of his other servants!!
    God has entrusted us unto your care and graciously grants any request that you make of Him on our behalf, if it is in accordance with His Divine Will.
    Our hearts burn with zeal as we honor you, Our Mother.
    We love you as a child loves a mother and you love us as mother loves her children.
    Please guide us, your little ones, to our Eternal and Almighty Father God through our prayers and through your love for us.
    Many in this world may slander and degrade you while still claiming to exalt God, please forgive them and pray for them for they may dishearten your devoted children.
    May we be made worthy of the promises of Christ through your prayers.
    You love us so freely and we are so unworthy of it.
    You love us because God and Christ loved us first.
    Mary, Mother, I love you.

    Amen.

     

     

    - Foundation Marypages - 

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    Any extra income generated will be donated to compassionate projects with a Catholic basis. We are registered at the Chamber of Commerce Flevoland under number 39100629.

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  • Whither Catholics’ Beliefs?

    06/01/2015 7:23:01 AM PDT · 45 of 56
    Elsie to Salvation
    Catholics profess only Christ. Are you familiar with the Creed?

    Not ALL 'catholics' seem to have gotten the memo.


     
     
     
    Bernadine: …all gifts, all virtues, and all graces are dispensed by the hands of Mary to whomsoever, when, and as she pleases. O Lady, since thou art the dispenser of all graces, and since the grace of salvation can ONLY come through thy hands, OUR SALVATION DEPENDS ON THEE.

    Bonaventure: …the gates of heaven will open to all who confide in the protection of Mary. Blessed are they who know thee, O Mother of God, for the knowledge of THEE is the high road to everlasting life, and the publication of thy virtues is the way of ETERNAL SALVATION . Give ear, O ye nations; and all you who desire heaven , serve, honor Mary, and certainly you will find ETERNAL LIFE.

    Ephem: …devotion to the divine Mother…is the unlocking of the heavenly Jerusalem.

    Blosius: To the, O Lady, are committed the KEYS and the treasures of the kingdom of Heaven.

    Ambrose: …constantly pray ‘Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since thou hast its KEYS.

    Fulgetius: …by Mary God descended from Heaven into the world, that by HER man might ascend from earth to Heaven.

    Athanasius: …And, thou, O Lady, wast filled with grace, that thou mightiest be the way of our SALVATION and the means of ascent to the heavenly Kingdom.

    Richard of Laurence: Mary, in fine, is the mistress of heaven; for there she commands as she wills, and ADMITS whom she wills.

    Guerric: …he who serves Mary and for whom she intercedes, is as CERTAIN of heaven as if he were already there…and those who DO NOT serve Mary will NOT BE SAVED.

    Anselm: It suffices, O Lady, that thou willest it, and our SALVATION is certain.

    Antoninus: …souls protected by Mary, and on which she casts her eyes, are NECESSARILY JUSTIFIED AND SAVED.

  • Whither Catholics’ Beliefs?

    06/01/2015 7:21:43 AM PDT · 44 of 56
    Elsie to Cicero
    Christ founded the Church and promised that the Gates of Hell would not prevail against it.

    That worked well!

    HELL seems to have had a MIGHTY tight grip on those CATHOLIC churches John mentioned in Revelation.

  • Whither Catholics’ Beliefs?

    06/01/2015 7:20:36 AM PDT · 43 of 56
    Elsie to Cicero
    I converted to Catholicism in college, not because it was “better” than Anglicanism, but because I gradually came to the conclusion that if there is only ONE true Church, it must be the Catholic Church.

    But first; didn't you have to be 'convinced' that there IS only one true one?

  • Whither Catholics’ Beliefs?

    06/01/2015 7:19:21 AM PDT · 42 of 56
    Elsie to NYer; narses

    Ya think you can coax narses out of hiding?