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Posts by Elsie

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  • Let’s Start Calling Progressive Catholics What They Really are: ‘Mainline’

    02/24/2017 1:29:03 AM PST · 34 of 34
    Elsie to Rashputin
    If it waddles like Luther and quacks like Luther, it's Protestant whether they claim to be Brothers of Bubba, Evangelicals, or anything else that's popularized at a given time.

    Once a Catholic; ALWAYS a Catholic is what I've heard preached here!

  • Let’s Start Calling Progressive Catholics What They Really are: ‘Mainline’

    02/24/2017 1:27:21 AM PST · 33 of 34
    Elsie to kearnyirish2
    Soon our Catholic parishes will be the same.

    And Katy Perry will buy them!

  • Let’s Start Calling Progressive Catholics What They Really are: ‘Mainline’

    02/24/2017 1:25:06 AM PST · 32 of 34
    Elsie to RINOphobic
    My church has been hijacked by a secular liberal pope.

    Who was VOTED into office by...

  • Let’s Start Calling Progressive Catholics What They Really are: ‘Mainline’

    02/24/2017 1:24:13 AM PST · 31 of 34
    Elsie to Rashputin
    Including the Jesuits who had one of their illustrious little twits just say, "all doctrine is open to discernment" which boils down to exactly what Luther preached.

    How do you like your current pope?

  • Let’s Start Calling Progressive Catholics What They Really are: ‘Mainline’

    02/24/2017 1:23:13 AM PST · 30 of 34
    Elsie to BlessedBeGod
    This order wasn’t always a small band of elderly women. In fact,
    the Sisters of the Immaculate Heart of Mary (IHM) were among the largest and most successful teaching orders in America
    at the time of the Second Vatican Council (1960-64).

    IHM sisters gathered in Hollywood, CA, mid 1960s. Photo via

    Their sudden collapse is a searing instance of how too many Catholics misread Vatican’s II message of renewal as a call to surrender to worldly, secular influences.

  • Can I lose My Salvation?

    02/24/2017 1:15:07 AM PST · 339 of 339
    Elsie to amorphous
    ...and the very righteous.

    What about the not_quite_as_righteous?

  • The Meaning of Grace

    02/24/2017 1:13:19 AM PST · 175 of 176
    Elsie to ADSUM
    So to some extent your opinions are then based on the teachings of the Catholic Church (early fathers) except where you or your church disagreed with the teachings of the Catholic Church in the form of heresy.


    This Prot goes right along with some of the stuff your ECFs put out; namely...

    As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18, note the following bishops promise in the profession of faith of Vatican 1:

     Basil of Seleucia, Oratio 25:

    'You are Christ, Son of the living God.'...Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it 'Peter,' perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: 'For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.' To whom be glory and power forever. — Oratio XXV.4, M.P.G., Vol. 85, Col. 296-297.

    Bede, Matthaei Evangelium Expositio, 3:

    You are Peter and on this rock from which you have taken your name, that is, on myself, I will build my Church, upon that perfection of faith which you confessed I will build my Church by whose society of confession should anyone deviate although in himself he seems to do great things he does not belong to the building of my Church...Metaphorically it is said to him on this rock, that is, the Saviour which you confessed, the Church is to be built, who granted participation to the faithful confessor of his name. — 80Homily 23, M.P.L., Vol. 94, Col. 260. Cited by Karlfried Froehlich, Formen, Footnote #204, p. 156 [unable to verify by me].

    Cassiodorus, Psalm 45.5:

    'It will not be moved' is said about the Church to which alone that promise has been given: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' For the Church cannot be moved because it is known to have been founded on that most solid rock, namely, Christ the Lord. — Expositions in the Psalms, Volume 1; Volume 51, Psalm 45.5, p. 455

    Chrysostom (John) [who affirmed Peter was a rock, but here not the rock in Mt. 16:18]:

    Therefore He added this, 'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession. — Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew, Homily LIIl; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (

    Cyril of Alexandria:

    When [Peter] wisely and blamelessly confessed his faith to Jesus saying, 'You are Christ, Son of the living God,' Jesus said to divine Peter: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church.' Now by the word 'rock', Jesus indicated, I think, the immoveable faith of the disciple.”. — Cyril Commentary on Isaiah 4.2.

    Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII):

    “For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.'

    “For all bear the surname ‘rock’ who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters.” — Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII), sect. 10,11 (

    Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II): Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God. On it we can base an answer to every objection with which perverted ingenuity or embittered treachery may assail the truth."-- (Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II), para 23; Philip Schaff, editor, The Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers Series 2, Vol 9.

    Too bad you Catholics do not!!

  • Witches Worldwide are Planning to Cast a Spell on Trump on 2/24/17. Here's how to Join Them.

    02/23/2017 6:49:11 PM PST · 88 of 88
    Elsie to Mark17


  • Maxine Waters Brings Culture and Civility Back to Our Public Discourse

    02/23/2017 2:36:52 PM PST · 26 of 26
    Elsie to generally
    ...and here it is!!

  • Witches Worldwide are Planning to Cast a Spell on Trump on 2/24/17. Here's how to Join Them.

    02/23/2017 2:31:15 PM PST · 81 of 88
    Elsie to grey_whiskers; Mark17

    Now it’s time for a limerick:

    The Dem women are such crazy bitches;
    they now try to rely upon witches.
    They cast out a spell;
    that is straight from Hell.
    But their oxen will all fall in ditches.

  • Witches Worldwide are Planning to Cast a Spell on Trump on 2/24/17. Here's how to Join Them.

    02/23/2017 2:26:38 PM PST · 80 of 88
    Elsie to freedumb2003
    They get a kind of witch constipation

    No $h|+???

  • Witches Worldwide are Planning to Cast a Spell on Trump on 2/24/17. Here's how to Join Them.

    02/23/2017 2:25:33 PM PST · 79 of 88
    Elsie to PROCON

    Monkey chuckles and cats of white;
    May our Donald survive the night!

  • Witches Worldwide are Planning to Cast a Spell on Trump on 2/24/17. Here's how to Join Them.

    02/23/2017 2:24:17 PM PST · 78 of 88
    Elsie to MoochPooch
    I hope they run a test with Spelcheck® first!

    With eye of toad and ear of bat,
    May Donald's wife get awfully FAT!

    May bad things happen to DJTrump;
    Using water from this hollow stump.

  • Feds paid $1 billion in Social Security benefits to individuals without SSN.

    02/23/2017 2:18:23 PM PST · 48 of 48
    Elsie to grobdriver

    I shudda read ahead

  • Feds paid $1 billion in Social Security benefits to individuals without SSN.

    02/23/2017 2:17:59 PM PST · 47 of 48
    Elsie to gattaca
    Feds paid $1 billion in Social Security benefits to individuals without SSN.


    How is this even POSSIBLE??

  • Can I lose My Salvation?

    02/23/2017 2:15:49 PM PST · 327 of 339
    Elsie to kosciusko51
    Will we have free will in Heaven? If not, won’t we be just marionettes?

    Well; according to the Book...

    1 Corinthians 2:9

    However, as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him.


    02/23/2017 2:13:47 PM PST · 103 of 103
    Elsie to Pilgrim's Progress


  • The Meaning of Grace

    02/23/2017 2:11:53 PM PST · 156 of 176
    Elsie to ADSUM
    The only reason you and I have the New Testament canon is because of the trustworthy teaching authority of the Catholic Church.


    Like what is shown in the LAST book that Rome decided was canon?

    The one that SHOWS the horrible Catholic TEACHING that the seven churches in Asia were following?

  • The Meaning of Grace

    02/23/2017 2:09:59 PM PST · 155 of 176
    Elsie to ADSUM
    What do you have? Personal opinion.

    When we ALL know that CATHOLIC opinion is what counts in this world!

  • The Meaning of Grace

    02/23/2017 2:08:55 PM PST · 154 of 176
    Elsie to ADSUM
    Your assumptions don’t meet the test of Truth.

    The way it's written:
    Galatians 4:4-5
    But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.
    The way Rome teaches it:
    Galatians 4:4-5
    But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a....
    Ark of the Covenant,
    Cause of Our Joy,
    Cause of our Salvation ,
    Comfort of the Afflicted,
    Destroyer of Heresy,
    Ever-virgin ,
    Favoured Daughter of the Father,
    Gate of Heaven,
    Health of the Sick,
    Help of Christians,
    Holy Mary,
    Holy Mother of God,
    Holy Virgin of Virgins,
    House of Gold,
    Joy of the Just,
    Mirror of Justice,
    Morning Star,
    Most Holy,
    Mother Admirable,
    Mother Inviolate,
    Mother Most Amiable,
    Mother Most Chaste,
    Mother Most Pure,
    Mother of Christ,
    Mother of Divine Grace,
    Mother of God,
    Mother of Good Counsel,
    Mother of Mercy,
    Mother of Orphans,
    Mother of Our Creator,
    Mother of Our Redeemer,
    Mother of Sorrows,
    Mother of the Church,
    Mother of the Poor,
    Mother of the Word,
    Mother Thrice Admirable,
    Mother Undefiled,
    Mystical Rose,
    Nova Eva (the New Eve),
    Our Lady of Compassion,
    Our Lady of Confidence,
    Our Lady of Victory,
    Our Lady, Star of the Sea,
    Our Mother of Perpetual Help,
    Queen Assumed Into Heaven,
    Queen Conceived Without Original Sin,
    Queen of All Saints,
    Queen of Angels,
    Queen of Apostles,
    Queen of Confessors,
    Queen of Families,
    Queen of Heaven,
    Queen of Martyrs,
    Queen of Patriarchs,
    Queen of Peace,
    Queen of Prophets,
    Queen of the Most Holy Rosary,
    Queen of Virgins,
    Ravisher of Hearts,
    Refuge of Sinners,
    Seat of Wisdom,
    She Who Shows the Way,
    Singular Vessel of Devotion,
    Spiritual Vessel,
    Spouse of the Holy Spirit,
    Tabernacle of the Lord,
    Temple of the Most Holy Trinity,
    Throne of Wisdom,
    Tower of David,
    Tower of Ivory,
    Treasure House of God's Graces,
    Untier of Knots,
    Vessel of Honor,
    Virgin God-bearer,
    Virgin Most Faithful,
    Virgin Most Merciful,
    Virgin Most Powerful,
    Virgin Most Prudent,
    Virgin Most Renowned,
    Virgin Most Venerable          born under the law, to HELP redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship; and,  sooner or later;  not spend TOO much time in Purgatory.

  • Maxine Waters Brings Culture and Civility Back to Our Public Discourse

    02/23/2017 4:47:17 AM PST · 23 of 26
    Elsie to generally

    Yes; there IS one even shorter!!

  • Just what really IS going on in Sweden?

    02/23/2017 4:40:26 AM PST · 27 of 39
    Elsie to Kartographer

    Well; they started out mighty strong last year; but when it was all over it was a .500 season.

  • Just what really IS going on in Sweden?

    02/23/2017 4:36:53 AM PST · 26 of 39
    Elsie to richardtavor
    I have Jewish fiends who live there andthey say it is much worse than reported even by Fox.

    And vicious they are!!

  • The Meaning of Grace

    02/23/2017 4:34:16 AM PST · 129 of 176
    Elsie to metmom; Normandy; StormPrepper; teppe
     All believers WILL be in heaven with God.
    Not GOD the Father.  Not according to MORMONism.


    HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):

    Celestial - for Mormons who have kept ALL of the laws and ordinances of their church.                                                        (Where the Father lives.  Only about 15% of Mormons have a VALID TR card.)
    Terrestrial - for religious people who aren't Mormons and for Mormons who have not met the requirements of the Church.     (Where approximately 85% 0f Mormons will end up)
    Telestial - where unbelievers go

    The Doctrine and Covenants
    Section 76
     92 And thus we saw the glory of the celestial, which excels in all things—where God, even the Father, reigns upon his throne forever and ever;
     93 Before whose throne all things bow in humble reverence, and give him glory forever and ever.
     94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;
     95 And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion.
    Those who inherit terrestrial glory will “receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.  (click view more) 
  • The Meaning of Grace

    02/23/2017 4:31:12 AM PST · 128 of 176
    Elsie to metmom
    Jesus said to them,  “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

    OK, Literally, that means anyone who partakes of the eucharist will never become hungry or thirsty again.

    Is that true for Catholics. Can they cease eating and drinking for the rest of their lives? Jesus said it. Literal or figurative?



    Whatcha tryin' to do here; blow up EVERY Catholics head?

    How can THEY say one thing is LITERAL and the other is NOT??


    02/23/2017 4:27:24 AM PST · 98 of 103
    Elsie to Jamestown1630
    “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function.”

    Like THIS???

    What's for dinner?

    D&C 49:18-19 

    18 And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God;
    19 For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in

    D&C 89:12-13 

    12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;
    13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

    It must be tough; being a Mormon.   Having to face Scripture that state two oppossing ideas and somehow managing to believe BOTH of them!  It's no WONDER that Utah leads in Prozac usage!

    02/23/2017 4:25:11 AM PST · 97 of 103
    Elsie to fuzzylogic
    I pray for him, would you?

    Sure do!

    His sin(s) are no worse than mine.


    02/23/2017 4:24:05 AM PST · 96 of 103
    Elsie to Jamestown1630; Guenevere

    I guess my veiled replies in 61,62 and 63 have confused folks.

    The straight men delivered really good lines to riff into staements about homosexuals; but I chose not to do so.


    02/23/2017 4:14:23 AM PST · 95 of 103
    Elsie to Pilgrim's Progress
    You are pitiful.

    Why do you judge this to be so?

  • Pipeline Protesters Ruin Tribe’s Casino Revenue and Set Fire to Camp

    02/23/2017 4:03:35 AM PST · 44 of 47
    Elsie to Spunky

    What he is influencing is gonna get a LOT of people killed someday.

  • Pipeline Protesters Ruin Tribe’s Casino Revenue and Set Fire to Camp

    02/23/2017 4:02:55 AM PST · 43 of 47
    Elsie to UCANSEE2

    Iron Eyes Cody (born Espera Oscar de Corti April 3, 1904 – January 4, 1999) was a Sicilian-American actor. He portrayed Native Americans in Hollywood ...

  • Pipeline Protesters Ruin Tribe’s Casino Revenue and Set Fire to Camp

    02/23/2017 4:01:56 AM PST · 42 of 47
    Elsie to UCANSEE2
    The land they were on was FEDERAL LAND.

    This land is your land This land is my land

  • Excited reports of 'habitable planets' need to come back down to Earth

    02/23/2017 3:57:34 AM PST · 44 of 74
    Elsie to Axenolith
    SETI is privately funded now.

    Who'd be silly enough to waste their OWN money on this?

  • Excited reports of 'habitable planets' need to come back down to Earth

    02/23/2017 3:56:21 AM PST · 43 of 74
    Elsie to Bubba_Leroy
    We now know that complex organic molecules are common throughout the galaxy.

    Yesterday, I found a VERY complex assembly of organic molecules in my yard.

    It weighed a few pounds, I suppose, and looked VERY similar to living organisms that scamper from tree to tree; performing inhuman feats of aerobatic gymnastics.

    I couldn't tell how many minutes (hours?) had passed since this assembly actually was a LIVING complex assembly of organic molecules; but it sure wasn't when I lifted it by it's bushy tail.

    It appeared to be missing nothing that would have caused it to be NON-living: no holes, no leakage - just no LIFE!!

    In all of human experience; we've NEVER detected LIFE coming from NON-life.

    It ALWAYS takes something LIVING to propagate itself.

    One of the greatest space traveler of our time has said repeatedly...

  • Can I lose My Salvation?

    02/23/2017 3:37:52 AM PST · 272 of 339
    Elsie to metmom
    So it’s His will for all to be saved, but it’s also His will for us to make the response.

    You've stated it as I believe it.

  • Can I lose My Salvation?

    02/23/2017 3:36:21 AM PST · 271 of 339
    Elsie to boatbums

    I think there is a difference in falling into sin again vs not Believing that Christ can SAVE you from that sin.

  • How to Win Wars

    02/22/2017 4:06:40 PM PST · 8 of 9
    Elsie to Kaslin
    How to Win Wars

    Intend to.


    02/22/2017 4:06:04 PM PST · 68 of 103
    Elsie to AlanGreenSpam

    An enraged Yorkie can attach it’s fangs on anyone’s ankle; but a mere twitch of the leg will send it flying.


    02/22/2017 4:04:45 PM PST · 67 of 103
    Elsie to The Toll
    Many won’t admit it because the guy is a homosexual but, he is incredibly effective at what he does.

    And a whore; Rahab; was in the lineage of Jesus...


    02/22/2017 4:03:46 PM PST · 66 of 103
    Elsie to fuzzylogic
    It seems FR has a mix of old-school conservatives that hate somebody only for being gay and others that love him for everything his is, except being gay - big difference.

    Which of these two groups you've defined will you place me into??

    A BIBLICAL Message to LGBT folks EVERYWHERE!

    Genesis 13:13
    Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

    Genesis 18:20-21
    20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and
    their sin so grievous
    21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

    Genesis 19:4-7
    4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men
    from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
    5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them
    6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
    7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

    Leviticus niv

    18:22 Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

    20:13 If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.


    Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

    Doonesbury Cartoon for Feb/08/2013

    Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

    2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

    Ezekiel 16:49-50
    49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
    50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

    Romans 1     New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
     18 The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19 For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse; 21 for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.

    24 Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. 29 They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. 

    2 Peter 2

    1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
    2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
    3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
    4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
    5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
    6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
    7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
    8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
    9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
    10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
    11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
    12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
    13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done.
    Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.

    But there IS hope!!!

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11

    9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
    Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
    10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
    11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

    If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...


    The Health Risks of gay sex.

    02/22/2017 4:02:03 PM PST · 65 of 103
    Elsie to RedWulf
    Then they be usin' #24 here...

    Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation

    Note: The first rule and last five (or six, depending on situation) rules are generally not directly within the ability of the traditional disinfo artist to apply.
    These rules are generally used more directly by those at the leadership, key players, or planning level of the conspiracy or  coverup.

    1. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.  Regardless of what you know, don't discuss it -- especially if you are a public figure, news anchor,  etc. If it's not reported, it didn't happen,  and you never have to deal with the issues.
    2. Become incredulous and indignant.  Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus  on side issues which can be used show the topic  as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the  'How dare you!' gambit.
    3. Create rumor mongers.  Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations. Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. This method which works especially well with a silent press, because the only way the public can learn of the facts are through such 'arguable rumors'. If you can associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify it a 'wild rumor' from a 'bunch of kids on the Internet' which can have no basis in fact.
    4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's  argument which you can easily knock down to make  yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges.  Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.
    5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule.  This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger'  ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs',  'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics',  'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others  shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.
    6. Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet  and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism, reasoning -- simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's viewpoint.
    7. Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could be taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal  agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.
    8. Invoke authority. Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough 'jargon' and 'minutia' to illustrate you are 'one who knows', and simply say it isn't so without discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources.
    9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.
    10. Associate opponent charges with old news. A derivative of the straw man -- usually, in any large-scale matter of high visibility, someone will make charges early on which can be or were already easily dealt with - a kind of investment for the future should the matter not be so easily contained.) Where it can be foreseen, have your own side raise a straw man issue and have it dealt with early on as part of the initial contingency plans. Subsequent charges, regardless of validity or new ground uncovered, can usually then be associated with the original charge and dismissed as simply being a rehash without need to address current issues -- so much the better where the opponent  is or was involved with the original source.
    11. Establish and rely upon fall-back positions.  Using a minor matter or element of the facts, take the 'high road' and 'confess' with candor that some innocent mistake, in hindsight, was made -- but that opponents have seized on the opportunity to blow it all out of proportion and imply greater criminalities which, 'just isn't so.' Others can reinforce this on your behalf, later, and even publicly 'call for an end to the nonsense' because you have already 'done the right thing.' Done properly, this can garner sympathy and respect for 'coming clean' and 'owning up' to your mistakes without addressing more serious issues.
    12. Enigmas have no solution.  Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to lose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues.
    13. Alice in Wonderland Logic. Avoid discussion of the issues by reasoning backwards or with an apparent deductive logic which forbears any actual material fact.
    14. Demand complete solutions. Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely, a ploy which works best with issues qualifying for rule 10.
    15. Fit the facts to alternate conclusions.  This requires creative thinking unless the crime  was planned with contingency conclusions in place.
    16. Vanish evidence and witnesses.  If it does not exist, it is not fact, and you won't have to address the issue.
    17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys  listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can  'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.
    18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how 'sensitive they are to criticism.'
    19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule.  Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant  and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.
    20. False evidence. Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations -- as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.
    21. Call a Grand Jury, Special Prosecutor, or other  empowered investigative body. Subvert the (process) to your benefit and effectively neutralize all sensitive issues without open discussion. Once convened, the evidence and testimony are required to be secret when properly handled. For instance, if you own the prosecuting attorney, it can insure a Grand Jury hears no useful evidence and that the evidence is sealed and unavailable to subsequent investigators. Once a favorable verdict is achieved, the matter can be considered officially closed. Usually, this technique is applied to find the guilty innocent, but it can also be used to obtain charges when seeking to frame a victim.
    22. Manufacture a new truth. Create your own expert(s), group(s), author(s), leader(s) or influence existing ones willing to forge new ground via scientific, investigative, or social research or testimony which concludes favorably. In this way, if you must actually address issues, you can do so authoritatively.
    23. Create bigger distractions. If the above does not seem to be working to distract from sensitive issues, or to prevent unwanted media coverage of unstoppable  events such as trials, create bigger news stories (or treat them as such) to distract the multitudes.
    24. Silence critics. If the above methods do not prevail, consider removing opponents from circulation by some definitive solution so that the need to address issues is removed entirely. This can be by their death, arrest and detention, blackmail or destruction of theircharacter by release of blackmail information, or merely by destroying them financially, emotionally, or severely damaging their health.
    25. Vanish. If you are a key holder of secrets or otherwise overly illuminated and you think the heat is getting too hot, to avoid  the issues, vacate the kitchen. .

    How to spot the professional disinfo players by one or more of seven (now 8) distinct traits:


    02/22/2017 3:59:18 PM PST · 63 of 103
    Elsie to servo1969

    Nope... ain’t gonna do it!


    02/22/2017 3:57:14 PM PST · 62 of 103
    Elsie to Jamestown1630
    I’m on Milo’s side in this; but I can’t believe that Trump ever really considered Milo for that position.

    After resisting the first; the second has become easier.


    02/22/2017 3:56:13 PM PST · 61 of 103
    Elsie to Guenevere
    I feel sorry for Milo, but I never felt comfortable with his position at Breitbart

    I simply MUST avoid swatting at this softball!


    02/22/2017 3:54:12 PM PST · 60 of 103
    Elsie to \/\/ayne
    “These things do happen perfectly consensually."

    So; is this statement INcorrect?

  • Pipeline Protesters Ruin Tribe’s Casino Revenue and Set Fire to Camp

    02/22/2017 3:51:43 PM PST · 29 of 47
    Elsie to Spunky
    Soros: mound of the dead

    Mound (soros) in which the Athenian dead were buried after the Battle of Marathon


  • Excited reports of 'habitable planets' need to come back down to Earth

    02/22/2017 3:48:31 PM PST · 19 of 74
    Elsie to freedumb2003


  • Excited reports of 'habitable planets' need to come back down to Earth

    02/22/2017 3:47:10 PM PST · 16 of 74
    Elsie to Salman
    Bend over and look between your feet:

    an inhabitable planet.

    Whatever shall we do with it?

  • Last Night in Sweden

  • New York City’s broken windows policing helps Trump deport immigrants, pol says

    02/22/2017 3:42:27 PM PST · 25 of 25
    Elsie to miss marmelstein
    The mayor has basically gotten rid of broken windows - unless the sloppy homeless living on the sidewalks are now considered an art exhibit.

    Meanwhile; on the OTHER side of the continent...