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Posts by exhaustguy

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  • Colo. Democrats' gun-control bills get first votes

    02/20/2014 4:20:31 AM PST · 6 of 6
    exhaustguy to ironwill
  • Michael Dunn trial: Man accused of shooting teen over music

    02/14/2014 9:37:22 PM PST · 76 of 76
    exhaustguy to Lurker

    That would be equivalent to around 250,000 homicides in the U.S. today (actual number is around 16,000). Dodge City population in 1876 was about 1,200.

  • Satanists seek spot on Oklahoma Statehouse steps

    12/12/2013 9:02:09 PM PST · 12 of 12
    exhaustguy to POWERSBOOTHEFAN

    How about the Hindu monkey god?

  • Van ISD latest to allow staff to carry firearms (Texas)

    02/28/2013 4:24:15 PM PST · 3 of 3
    exhaustguy to BobL
  • Convicted of killing his neighbor, Trevor Dooley talks of race but not remorse

    12/24/2012 2:00:24 PM PST · 5 of 6
    exhaustguy to LtKerst

    Probably did not get the chance since Dooley was charged after two days. Zimmerman was charged a few weeks after the tweet (over six weeks after the shooting).

  • Convicted of killing his neighbor, Trevor Dooley talks of race but not remorse

    12/24/2012 1:42:24 PM PST · 1 of 6
    exhaustguy
    Interesting Stand Your Ground case in Florida.
  • Armed Teacher Training Program to Provide Free Training to Educators(OH)

    12/22/2012 11:22:43 AM PST · 7 of 19
    exhaustguy to MtnMan101

    The guy open carry with the preschoolers. How would you feel about him teaching a room full of middle school band students - being the middle of them adjusting an instrument with lots of grabby hands all around?

    By the way several Israelis have commented that this is not the normal state of affairs in virtually the entire country.

    http://www.israeltoday.co.il/NewsItem/tabid/178/nid/23572/Default.aspx

    http://jewishpreppers.com/2012/12/are-israeli-teachers-armed/

    Finally they are at a state of war with every country around them as well as the Palestinians. Who are we at war with in the U.S.?

    Not saying I disagree with CCW for teachers, but just some thoughts as individuals consider this a solution for the U.S. The Israel solution would cost the U.S. approximately $10B (one armed LEO or equivalent at every public school).

  • NRA chief urges armed guards in 'every single school,' dismisses calls for gun control

    12/21/2012 10:50:55 AM PST · 56 of 102
    exhaustguy to exhaustguy

    I met to say magazine and not clip. I know the difference before I am corrected.

  • NRA chief urges armed guards in 'every single school,' dismisses calls for gun control

    12/21/2012 10:48:54 AM PST · 54 of 102
    exhaustguy to Dr. Sivana

    How effective was Neil Gardner (armed security) at Columbine? Why didn’t he run into Columbine and take down the shooters? One of a two of first responders to the Sikh Temple shooting was shot even though he was forewarned and working with his partner. The same for the Ft. Hood shooting with one wounded as a team of two first responders encounter the shooter outside the building.

    Four cops were killed in a local coffee shop.

    Four cops killed including two SWAT by Mixon in Oakland.

    Most recently two cops killed outside a grocery store in Kansas.

    The Newhall shooting is instructive as to what happens when you are outgunned (so unless the security is carrying a long rifle with a 30 round clip he would have been outgunned).

    Remember based on statistics and the population of the U.S. you can go 80,000 years without encountering a mass shooting event. Guards have marvelous training but, unless you are in an active combat zone, it is difficult to keep your guard up.

    Not to say that you could have some deterence value to an armed uniformed officer at the only entrance to a school. That is usually the first target.

    Of course a couple of husky 12 year olds should have been able to take Lanza down.

    Video of police station shooting. What would have happened with a single armed officer at the entrance of a school? In this case that was the first one to go down. Lamar Moore was using a 20 gauge pump action shotgun (Moosberg Model 500 which carries from 5 to 8 rounds). I don’t know what load or which version he was using. Consider how long it takes to reload a shotgun compared to a magazine fed weapon, how many rounds can be fired before reload (max 8 vs. 30), and how fast a semiautomatic fires in comparison to a semiautomatic weapon.

    http://www.freep.com/article/20110128/NEWS01/110128009/Watch-video-released-by-Detroit-police-showing-police-station-gun-battle

    Of course a couple of husky 12 year olds should have been able to take Lanza down.

  • High-Capacity-Magazine Bans (They won't help much either)

    12/19/2012 9:19:32 PM PST · 10 of 18
    exhaustguy to SeekAndFind

    In an old WWII documetary on the M1 it indicated that one man using a M1 can do nearly as much damage as 3 men using a Springfield bolt action.

    The M1 Garand used a 8 round clip.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo0NLKAvmDM

  • Best holster for teachers?

    12/19/2012 8:00:17 AM PST · 23 of 25
    exhaustguy to Squantos

    For $400 for the Magna-trigger I like the idea very much. Would it be an onerous requirement to make those who work in current “No Gun Zones” use a Magna-trigger? I was thinking teachers, but someone brought up nurses as well who are even more exposed to having a gun grabbed during the performance of their duties.
    Parents and other CCWs who do not directly interface with students/teachers probably could carry with their normal holster and practice normal safety procedures.

  • Best holster for teachers?

    12/18/2012 10:20:37 PM PST · 1 of 25
    exhaustguy
  • DOJ: Murders of School-Age Children Down 42%; Only 1% Take Place at School

    12/18/2012 9:58:51 PM PST · 12 of 17
    exhaustguy to newbie2008

    Great compilation of statistics which contradicts the positions of Huckabee, Fischer, and Dobson that enforcement of the establishment clause of the Constitution is not a reason for the shooting in Sandy Hook. If it was then we would expect the trend to be in the other direction (not the mention the trend in other countries that are less Christian than ourselves).

    As difficult as it is to say, Cost Benefit Analysis should be applied to this issue like any other. While it is awful does putting a locked up M4 in every principal’s office make sense (Gohmert). Or armed LEOs in every school. I don’t see any issue with CCW’s having their guns in their holsters on school grounds, but is there any risk of such weapons being seized as teachers interact in close proximity with many students? I am surprised that Snyder refused to sign the Michigan bill. I doubt the effectiveness in this case though.

  • The Dead Soul of Adam Lanza

    12/18/2012 12:38:45 AM PST · 14 of 28
    exhaustguy to Yaelle

    Or in the Old Testament where God commands the Israelites to kill everyone including the children (read Deut. 7:1-2,20:16-17 and Joshua for details). Also John Chivington, Indian fighter, who said “nits make lice” and to get big and small scalps alike.

  • The student debt explosion: Higher education bubble threatens to add to nation’s economic woes

    12/18/2012 12:08:08 AM PST · 12 of 13
    exhaustguy to wildbill

    I have not come across those teachers in my school district. I have only come across one “bad” teacher in my interaction over 12 years and two children. The one “bad” teacher knew what to do - he was just lazy and focussed on sports and not the classroom (I Homeschooled my daughter in English for two years for that reason).
    It does come down to you get what you pay for. I am amazed at the quality of some of the teachers even with the pay (for example a math/engineering teacher could make twice as much as my employer than he makes teaching my daughter). Folks like to discount English teachers, but they have probably the hardest job if they are doing their work well (giving feedback on lots of writing). Grading math and science problems is easy by comparison (note I am an engineer). Social Studies and Foreign Language teachers also have great value (I cringe when I hear some of my engineering coworkers badmouthing social studies teachers - some of the most important topics in society are discussed in those classes and good ones have lots of writing assignments as well).

    Finally you have the teachers who have to deal with the unruly students that make learning difficult at best. At the end of the day that is the problem in my school district. My daughter’s engineering class is a zoo, and it is a shame because she really loves the topic and the teacher who is an engineer has a lot to teach.

  • The student debt explosion: Higher education bubble threatens to add to nation’s economic woes

    12/17/2012 2:50:48 PM PST · 8 of 13
    exhaustguy to wildbill

    You mean the for profits that Romney fronted?

    I do agree with your sentiments. It is ironic that our state schools charge more for engineering tuition than for liberal arts tuition. The reason given is the more expensive instruction (losing track of the dollars that the engineering school brings in from grants).

    I do wonder if more teaching candidates follow the dollars instead of teaching where we will get our next generation of teachers from. No doubt we are trying to force their wages down.

  • Adam Lanza's Mom Pulled Him Out of School: Relative

    12/17/2012 2:43:47 PM PST · 48 of 73
    exhaustguy to SoldierDad

    We put them under those pressures because many of our main economic competitors are also putting their kids under the same pressure. To get any sort of merit money for college you have to walk on water. In addition once you get into college you better believe that the other kids, many 1st generation Americans, have pounded the books since they were little. You can’t fake your way in a Calculus or a Physics class. I am not having my daughter look at exclusive private colleges because the pressure/payback is just too great. I also rearranged her schedule so she would take online college classes instead of high school classes (she had four finals in one day in high school both semesters - in her hardest four academic subjects). The stress was awful. With online college classes she can set the time in which she takes her tests so the material may be comparable, but the preparation and stress level are optimized.

  • More Students Are Now Thinking Outside the College Box

    12/17/2012 10:27:56 AM PST · 16 of 17
    exhaustguy to douginthearmy

    Good suggestion. She does have her eye on an employer that pays for getting a Masters degree (will accomodate getting a PhD as well for certain employees). She will make that decision at the time leaving all options open (including getting dual enroll B.S./M.S. credit).

    I suspect she will end up someplace like Stanford for the PhD and go on to someplace like Oregon State to teach. That is what she has indicated is her plan right now. She is really driven to succeed. She seems to love engineering (I am an engineer as well). I thought she would go electrical, but she is leaning strongly towards mechanical (I am a mechanical as well). She is getting pretty good at Autodesk Inventor and I going to load Pro/E on her computer to see how that goes.

  • More Students Are Now Thinking Outside the College Box

    12/17/2012 7:54:39 AM PST · 8 of 17
    exhaustguy to memyselfandi59

    My daughter is finishing her freshman year of engineering while a high school junior (she has 20 hours so far with another 15 planned for next semester). I had to pay for 17 of the first 20 hours, but now she falls under PSEO in which the school district pays for the classes (all 15 of her hours next semester when one dual enrollment class is counted). I will pay for another 8 hours of math classes this summer, but the school will then pay for up to 23 hours next year (possibly more the laws are a little vague). At the very least they will pick up the expensive online sophomore engineering university classes while I pay for the community college humanities/social studies classes. She may take an additional two engineering classes online over the summer which I will pay for before arriving at the university in the fall of 2014. She will then have only three semesters left for her B.S. in Mechanical Engineering. I don’t mind paying for her classes because she is a very hard worker. She is trying for an internship this summer.

  • 'Gun dorms' attract 0 students at CU campuses

    12/17/2012 7:43:34 AM PST · 37 of 40
    exhaustguy to Daffynition

    What would a student in the dorm do with their personal weapon? Should the school expect the student to bring a gun safe for when the student goes to the shower or leaves the room without the gun?

  • Our God-Forsaken Schools

    12/17/2012 4:56:55 AM PST · 27 of 27
    exhaustguy to Guido2012

    In 1903 in State of Nebraska v. Scheve (which reads very much like the 1962 and following decisions from the Supreme Court) school prayer and the institutional exercise of religion was banned. In 1962 the Alabama law mandating religious reading was impacted by the Supreme Court (and susequent Supreme Court decisions). So for Nebraska nothing changed and for Alabama your point about the causal link between violence and removal of prayer should hold. Here are the statistics:
    1960 Alabama - Violent crime rate 187, In 2011 420 (note the murder rate dropped from 12.4 to 6.3.
    1960 Nebraska - Violent crime rate 42, In 2011 253

    Note that in Alabama the crime rate went up 2.2x while it went up 6.0x times in Nebraska.

    I am not saying we are better off. I am saying that the Supreme Court decisions of the early 1960s has nothing to do with violent crime today (or at least that any claim that it does is not backed by statistical evidence in so many different ways - by state, by country, by year, by status before or after the Supreme Court decision). Causation is a much higher bar to prove than correlation, and no one who claims that the Supreme Court decisions have the 1960s have led to greater violence rates have even proved the correlation (and I have presented evidence that proves no correlation exists). Once you jump over the correlation bar, then we can discuss causation.

  • Our God-Forsaken Schools

    12/16/2012 7:31:32 PM PST · 20 of 27
    exhaustguy to Jacquerie

    From the original article:
    “The truth is, since school prayer was banned in 1962, there has been a meteoric rise in the rates of violent crime...”

    Murder rate nationally is about the same today as it was in 1962. Granted violent crime has gone up since 1962, but it has trended downward since its peak in 1991. Has more school prayer gone on since then, or did school prayer end immediately after 1962 to acocunt for the growth during that time? Remember I am not trying to prove causality about establishment causing violent crime, I am only arguing that stopping it is not correlated with violent crime. The much more ambitious claim is being made by your article.

    It is a darn shame about statistics. If you cannot show correlation, then you sure can’t show causation. I have shown no correlation for the claim, therefore you can’t claim causality.

  • Our God-Forsaken Schools

    12/16/2012 7:13:57 PM PST · 19 of 27
    exhaustguy to Godzilla

    Some guidelines which are out there.

    http://www.freedomforum.org/publications/first/teachersguide/teachersguide.pdf

    “Students have a right to distribute religious literature to their schoolmates on the same terms as they are permitted to distribute other literature that is unrelated to school curriculum or activities. Schools may impose the same reasonable time, place, and manner or other constitutional restrictions on distribution of religious literature as they do on nonschool literature generally, but they may not single out religious literature for special regulation.”

    “Students have the right to pray individually or in groups or to discuss their religious views with their peers so long as they are not disruptive. Because the Establishment Clause does not apply to purely private speech, students enjoy the right to read their Bibles or other scriptures, say grace before meals, pray before tests, and discuss religion with other willing student listeners. In the classroom, students have the right to pray quietly except when required to be actively engaged in school activities (e.g., students may not decide to pray just as a teacher calls on them). In informal settings, such as the cafeteria or in the halls, students may pray either audibly or silently, subject to the same rules of order as apply to other speech in these locations. However, the right to engage in voluntary prayer does not include, for example, the right to have a captive audience listen or to compel other students to participate.”

    The guide has been endorsed by the following organizations:
    American Association of School Administrators
    American Federation of Teachers
    American Jewish Committee
    American Jewish Congress
    Association for Supervision and Curriculum Development
    Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs
    Christian Educators Association International
    Christian Legal Society
    Council on Islamic Education
    National Association of Elementary School Principals
    National Association of Evangelicals
    National Association of Secondary School Principals
    National Council of Churches of Christ in the U.S.A.
    National Council for the Social Studies
    National Education Association
    National PTA
    National School Boards Association
    Union of American Hebrew Congregations
    Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America

    While the ACLU does not endorse this guide, they recommend its use (http://www.aclu.org/religion-belief/statement-emthe-bible-public-schools-first-amendment-guideem)
    “Although the ACLU does not endorse all of the recommendations included in the document (in part because some pertain to issues on which the organization takes no position, such as which courses ought to be included in a public school curriculum), the document provides a great deal of sound guidance that, if implemented openly and conscientiously, is constitutional and will help protect schools against liability.”

    One example of a local ACLU which put out their own guidelines:

    “The ACLU has always defended students’ right to pray individually and voluntarily in school as long as they do not disrupt regular school activities. For example, students may be allowed to read their Bibles on the school bus or pray together before lunch; however, they may not force other students to read along or listen.

    Organized events such as “See You at the Pole” are permissible under certain conditions. “See You at the Pole” involves prayer meetings held before the start of the school day at a pre-arranged site on school grounds. Similar to guidelines outlined in the Equal Access Act, outside persons may not direct, conduct, control or regularly attend the activities of such student groups. Additionally, schools may not circumvent the ban against school-sponsored prayer by initiating such events and delegating the responsibilities to students, or by obtaining “permission” from parents. Furthermore, schools may not advertise or promote such events within the school either verbally or in writ-ing. Within this framework schools prevent the impression of endorsement, equally respecting the practices of stu-dents of all religions.”

    Gideons can’t pass out Bibles because it conveys the establishment of religion. Gideons can pass out Bibles freely in the community though. Does this restriction seem overly onerous? You can’t pass out Korans or The Book of Mormon or Hindu Scriptures either.

    As for school shootings. Here is a list compiled for those before 1962. Remember that you had far less access to high lethality weapons back then (even though in Bath a bomb was used to kill more students than in Newtown). What could any one of these shooters have done with a .223 w/multiple 30 round magazines?

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/rodda/2012/12/16/no-mr-huckabee-its-not-because-god-has-been-removed-from-schools/

    Pre-1962 school shootings:

    November 12, 1840: Charlottesville, Virginia. University of Virginia student Joseph Green Semmes shot law professor John A.G. Davis when Davis attempted to unmask Semmes and another student, both of whom were wearing masks and carrying pistols. Professor Davis died three days later.

    November 2, 1853: Louisville, Kentucky. A student, Matthew Ward, bought a self-cocking pistol in the morning, went to school and killed Schoolmaster Mr. Butler for excessively punishing his brother the day before.

    June 8, 1867: New York City. At Public School No. 18, a 13 year old lad brought a pistol loaded and capped, without the knowledge of his parents or school-teachers, and shot and injured a classmate.

    December 22, 1868: Chattanooga, Tennessee. A boy who refused to be whipped and left school, returned, with his brother and a friend, the next day to seek revenge on his teacher. Not finding the teacher at the school, they continued to his house, where a gun battle rang out, leaving three dead. Only the brother survived.

    March 9, 1873: Salisbury, Maryland. After school as Miss Shockley was walking with four small children, she was approached by a Mr. Hall and shot. The Schoolmaster ran out, but she was dead instantly. Hall threw himself under a train that night.

    May 24, 1879: Lancaster, New York. As the carriage loaded with female students was pulling out of the school’s stables, Frank Shugart, a telegraph operator, shot and severely injured Mr. Carr, Superintendent of the stables.

    July 4, 1886: Charleston, South Carolina. During Sunday school, Emma Connelly shot and killed John Steedley for “circulating slanderous reports” about her, even though her brother publicly whipped him a few days earlier.

    June 12, 1887: Cleveland, Tennessee. Will Guess went to the school and fatally shot Miss Irene Fann, his little sister’s teacher, for whipping her the day before.

    June 13, 1889: New Brunswick, New Jersey. Charles Crawford, upset over an argument with a school Trustee, went up to the window and fired a pistol into a crowded school room. The bullet lodged in the wall just above the teacher’s head.

    April 9, 1891: Newburgh, New York. 70 year old James Foster fired a shotgun at a group of students in the playground of St. Mary’s Parochial School, causing minor injuries to several of the students.

    February 26, 1902: Camargo, Illinois. Teacher Fletcher R. Barnett shot and killed another teacher, Eva C. Wiseman, in front of her class at a school near Camargo, Illinois. After shooting at a pupil who came to help Miss Wiseman and wounding himself in a failed suicide attempt he waited in the classroom until a group of farmers came to lynch him. He then ran out of the school building, grabbed a shotgun from one of the farmers and shot himself, before running away and leaping into a well where he finally drowned. The incident was likely sparked by Wiseman’s refusal to marry Barnett.

    February 24, 1903: Inman, South Carolina. Edward Foster, a 17-year-old student at Inman High school, was shot and fatally wounded by his teacher Reuben Pitts after he had jerked a rod from Pitts’ hands to resist punishment. According to the teacher, Foster struck the pistol Pitts had drawn to defend himself, thus causing its discharge. Pitts was later acquitted of murder.

    October 10, 1906: Cleveland, Ohio. Harry Smith shot and killed 22-year-old teacher Mary Shepard at South Euclid School after she had rejected him. Smith escaped and committed suicide in a barn near his home two hours later.

    March 23, 1907: Carmi, Illinois. George Nicholson shot and killed John Kurd at a schoolhouse outside of Carmi, Illinois during a school rehearsal. The motive for the shooting was Kurd making a disparaging remark about Nicholson’s daughter during her recital.

    March 11, 1908: Boston, Massachusetts. Elizabeth Bailey Hardee was shot to death by Sarah Chamberlain Weed at the Laurens School, a finishing school in Boston. Weed then turned the gun on herself and committed suicide.

    April 15, 1908: Asheville, North Carolina. Dr. C. O. Swinney shot and fatally wounded his 16-year-old daughter Nellie in a reception room at Normal and Collegiate Institute. He then committed suicide by shooting himself in the head.

    February 12, 1909: San Francisco, California. 10-year-old Dorothy Malakanoff was shot and killed by 49-year-old Demetri Tereaschinko as she arrived at her school in San Francisco. Tereaschinko then shot himself in a failed suicide attempt. Tereaschinko was reportedly upset that Malakanoff refused to elope with him.

    January 10, 1912: Warrenville, Illinois. Sylvester E. Adams shot and killed teacher Edith Smith after she rejected his advances. Adams then shot and killed himself. The incident took place in a schoolhouse about a mile outside of Warrenville after the students had been dismissed for the day.

    March 27, 1919: Lodi Township, Michigan. 19-year-old teacher Irma Casler was shot and killed in her classroom at Rentschler school in Lodi Township, Michigan by Robert Warner, apparently because she had rejected his advances.

    April 2, 1921: Syracuse, New York. Professor Holmes Beckwith shot and killed dean J. Herman Wharton in his office at Syracuse University before committing suicide.

    May 22, 1930: Ringe, Minnesota. Margaret Wegman, 20-year-old teacher at the local rural school, was shot and killed in the school by 24-year-old Douglas Petersen.

    February 15, 1933: Downey, California. Dr. Vernon Blythe shot and killed his wife Eleanor, as well as his 8-year old son Robert at Gallatin grammar school and committed suicide after firing three more shots at his other son Vernon. His wife, who had been a teacher at the school, had filed for divorce the week before.

    September 14, 1934: Gill, Massachusetts. Headmaster Elliott Speer was murdered by a shotgun blast through the window of his study at Northfield Mount Hermon School. The crime was never solved.

    March 27, 1935: Medora, North Dakota. Emily Hartl, 24-year-old teacher at the Manlon school northwest of Medora, was shot and killed at the school by 28-year-old Harry McGill, a former suitor.

    December 12, 1935: New York City, New York. Victor Koussow, a Russian laboratory worker at the School of Dental and Oral Surgery, shot Prof. Arthur Taylor Rowe, Prof. Paul B. Wiberg, and wounded Dr. William H. Crawford at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital, before committing suicide.

    April 27, 1936: Lincoln, Nebraska. Prof. John Weller shot and wounded Prof. Harry Kurz in a corridor of the University of Nebraska, apparently because of his impending dismissal at the end of the semester. After shooting Kurz Weller tried to escape, but was surrounded by police on the campus, whereupon he killed himself with a shot in the chest.

    June 4, 1936: Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Wesley Crow shot and killed his Lehigh University English instructor, C. Wesley Phy. Crow went to Phy’s office and demanded that Mr. Phy change his grade to a passing mark. Crow committed suicide after shooting Phy.

    September 24, 1937: Toledo, Ohio. 12-year-old Robert Snyder shot and wounded his principal, June Mapes, in her office at Arlington public school when she declined his request to call a classmate. He then fled the school grounds and shot and wounded himself.

    May 6, 1940: South Pasadena, California. After being removed as principal of South Pasadena Junior High School, Verlin Spencer shot six school officials, killing five, before attempting to commit suicide by shooting himself in the stomach.

    May 23, 1940: New York City, New York. Infuriated by a grievance, Matthew Gillespie, 62-year-old janitor at the junior school of the Dwight School for Girls, shot and critically wounded Mrs. Marshall Coxe, secretary of the junior school.

    July 4, 1940: Valhalla, New York. Angered by the refusal of his daughter, Melba, 15 years old, to leave a boarding school and return to his home, Joseph Moshell, 47, visited the school and shot and killed the girl.

    September 12, 1940: Uniontown, Pennsylvania. 29-year-old teacher Carolyn Dellamea was shot to death inside her third grade classroom by 35-year-old William Kuhns. Kuhns then shot himself in the chest in a failed suicide attempt. Kuhns had reportedly been courting Dellamea for over a year but the relationship was ended when Dellamea discovered that Kuhns was already married.

    October 2, 1942: New York City, New York. Erwin Goodman, 36-year-old mathematics teacher at William J. Gaynor Junior High School, was shot and killed in the school corridor by a youth.

    June 26, 1946: Brooklyn, New York. A 15-year-old schoolboy who balked at turning over his pocket money to a gang of seven youths was shot in the chest at 11:30 A.M. in the basement of the Public School 147 annex of the Brooklyn High School for Automotive Trades.

    February 5, 1947: Madill, Oklahoma. 1st grade teacher Jessie Laird, 40-years-old, was shot to death in her classroom, during recess, by her estranged husband, Ellis Laird, 62-years-old. Laird then fatally shot himself.

    November 13, 1949: Columbus, Ohio. Ohio State University freshman James Heer grabbed a .45 caliber handgun from the room of a Delta Tau Delta fraternity brother and shot and killed his fraternity brother Jack McKeown, 21, an Ohio State senior.

    April 25, 1950: Peru, Nebraska. Dr. William Nicholas, 48, president of Peru State College and Dr. Paul Maxwell, 56, education department head, were shot to death at their desks by Dr. Barney Baker, 54-year-old psychology professor. Baker was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot at his home on campus.

    July 22, 1950: New York City, New York. A 16-year-old boy was shot in the wrist and abdomen at the Public School 141 dance during an argument with a former classmate.

    March 12, 1951: Union Mills, North Carolina Professor W. E. Sweatt, superintendent and teacher at the Alexander school, was shot to death by students Billy Ray Powell, 16, and Hugh Justice, 19. The assailants had been reprimanded by Sweatt, and they waited for him as he locked his office door.

    November 27, 1951: New York City, New York. David Brooks, a 15-year-old student, was fatally shot as fellow-pupils looked on in a grade school.

    April 9, 1952: New York City, New York. A 15-year-old boarding-school student shot a dean rather than relinquish pin-up pictures of girls in bathing suits.

    July 14, 1952: New York City, New York. Bayard Peakes walked in to the offices of the American Physical Society at Columbia University and shot and killed secretary Eileen Fahey with a .22 caliber pistol. Peakes was reportedly upset that the APS had rejected a pamphlet he had written.

    September 3, 1952: in Lawrenceville, Illinois. After 25-year-old Georgine Lyon ended her engagement with Charles Petrach, Petrach shot and killed Lyon in a classroom at Lawrenceville High School where she worked as a librarian.

    May 15, 1954: Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Putnam Davis Jr. was shot and killed during a fraternity house carnival at the Phi Delta Theta house at the University of North Carolina. William Joyner and Allen Long were shot and wounded during the exchange of gunfire in their fraternity bedroom. The incident took place after an all-night beer party. Mr. Long reported to the police that, while the three were drinking beer at 7 a.m., Davis pulled out a gun and started shooting with a gun he had obtained from the car of a former roommate.

    January 11, 1955: Swarthmore, Pennsylvania. After some of his dorm mates urinated on his mattress Bob Bechtel, a 20-year-old student at Swarthmore College, returned to his dorm with a shotgun and used it to shoot and kill fellow student Holmes Strozier.

    May 4, 1956: in Prince George’s County, Maryland. 15-year-old student Billy Prevatte fatally shot one teacher and injured two others at Maryland Park Junior High School in Prince George’s County after he had been reprimanded from the school.

    October 20, 1956: New York City, New York. A junior high school student was wounded in the forearm yesterday by another student armed with a home-made weapon at Booker T. Washington Junior High School.

    October 2, 1957: New York City, New York. A 16-year old student was shot in the leg yesterday by a 15-year old classmate at a city high school.

    March 4, 1958: New York City, New York. A 17-year-old student shot a boy in the Manual Training High School.

    May 1, 1958: Massapequa, New York. A 15-year-old high school freshman was shot and killed by a classmate in a washroom of the Massapequa High School.

    September 24, 1959: New York City, New York. Twenty-seven men and boys and an arsenal were seized in the Bronx as the police headed off a gang war resulting from the fatal shooting of a teenager Monday at Morris High School.

    February 2, 1960: Hartford City, Indiana. Principal Leonard Redden shot and killed two teachers with a shotgun at William Reed Elementary School in Hartford City, Indiana, before fleeing into a remote forest, where he committed suicide.

    March 30, 1960: Alice, Texas. Donna Dvorak, 14, brought a .22 target pistol to Dubose Junior High School, and fatally shot Bobby Whitford, 15, in their 9th grade science class. Dvorak believed Whitford posed a threat to one of her girlfriends.

    June 7, 1960: Blaine, Minnesota. Lester Betts, a 40-year-old mail-carrier, walked into the office of 33-year-old principal Carson Hammond and shot him to death with a 12-gauge shotgun.

    October 17, 1961: Denver, Colorado. Tennyson Beard, 14, got into an argument with William Hachmeister, 15, at Morey Junior High School. During the argument Beard pulled out a .38 caliber revolver and shot at Hachmeister, wounding him. A stray bullet also struck Deborah Faith Humphrey, 14, who died from her gunshot wound.

  • Our God-Forsaken Schools

    12/16/2012 1:55:18 PM PST · 15 of 27
    exhaustguy to Jacquerie

    The original point was that the shooting was related to not having God in school. I pointed out that being God fearing (here I interpret Christian) has no correlation to murder rates. Next the post was that atheists have killed so many millions. I then pointed out that Christians also killed so many millions. Just like atheists won’t claim Stalin or Mao, you are within your rights to not claim Hitler (even though his was a “Christian” nation full of Catholics and Protestants who saw no issue with rounding up Jews). Of course you can self select a group that has never done anything wrong eventually.

    The point remains that this shooting has not been proven to be related to lack of established Christianity in the schools (by the way Christianity is a personal decision for students and a significant number are Christian many of whom pray and read their Bibles in school - both perfectly legal in our country. My daughters both do in their school). They even have Christian rallies on the track field.
    I am particularly offended by any Christian who states a link between something like this tragedy and lack of established Christianity in schools. I am not saying it is the fault of Christians. I am a Christian.

  • Our God-Forsaken Schools

    12/16/2012 12:35:05 PM PST · 13 of 27
    exhaustguy to Jacquerie

    The pseudo Christian whatever the hell they were Nazis slaughtered 8-12 million, so what is your point? While the numbers were lower (remember they did not have mechanization), the Inquisition and witch trials did a good job of slaughtering a bunch of folks indiscrimately. You also had the pograms against the Jews in Spain, Russia, etc.

    A website describing the various Christian atrocities:

    http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

    Some more facts - Leopold II (a Catholic) slaughtered 8,00,000 in the Congo
    From 10 to 100 million Native Americans (actual number unknown from Christian Europeans and their diseases)
    50 million? in Africa from colonization and the slave trade
    How many in Asia from colonization as well?

  • The Sandy Hook Murders: What To Do?

    12/16/2012 10:29:33 AM PST · 66 of 73
    exhaustguy to blu

    Would you as a taxpayer be willing to pay for the time the teachers take to train to develop this additional skill or should it just be a mandated condition of employment? Do you think you would better than the police officer at the Sikh temple shooting that got shot even though he had a partner and was forewarned? How long to get the kids out of the building?

    Heck yes on shooting to kill. I agree with no Annie Oakley crap. My friend says you need to go for the headshot after the torso because of body armor. Remember this guy is doing rapid fire with a 30 shot magazine (two 30s taped together). I don’t know how many additional magazines he had available.

  • Our God-Forsaken Schools

    12/16/2012 9:20:23 AM PST · 6 of 27
    exhaustguy to Godzilla

    Actually California has a pretty large evangelical community (I used to live there). It is far from being the most irreligious state. I looked at the top 5 for murder rate and religious ranking. California is somewhere below top five in either category. Murder rate is 4.8. Ranking in terms of being Christian (not the same thing but a different list - California is 33). Top 5 for Christian - Utah (1.9) (which is odd since they are not Christian), North Dakota (3.5) , Alabama (6.3), Louisiana (11.2), Oklahoma (5.5). Bottom 5 for Christian - Maine (2.0), Oregon (2.1), Alaska (4.0), Vermont (1.3), Washington (2.4).

    What I found -

    Salon.com lists the 8 countries that are most accomodating to atheists. Here they are by murder rate: Czech Rep - 1.7. Sweden - 1.0, Denmark - 0.9, Austria - 0.6, France - 1.1, Norway - 0.6, Australia - 1.0, Japan - 0.3 The U.S. rate is at 4.2. For states the most religious Mississippi - 8.0, Utah - 1.9, Alabama - 6.3, Louisiana - 11.2, Arkansas - 5.5. For the least religious states Vermont - 1.3, New Hampshire -1.3, Maine -2.0, Massachusetts - 2.8, Alaska - 4.0. Unless your religion is Mormonism it looks like a negative correlation to me between belief and murder (if a correlation does exist).

  • Former Obama Official, Daily Show Writer Mock Newtown Killer's Slain Mother

    12/16/2012 9:05:22 AM PST · 9 of 31
    exhaustguy to Travis McGee

    Well she should have kept her personal arsenal away from her unstable son at least. She and 26 others would be alive today if she had (or at least until he turned 21 and could buy a gun for himself).

  • Our God-Forsaken Schools

    12/16/2012 8:54:35 AM PST · 2 of 27
    exhaustguy to Guido2012

    So what happened in the Amish school shooting? Or the Bath School bombing (35 years before the 1962 decision)? Why is it that the most atheist friendly countries have the lowest homicide rates? Or with the exception of Utah, the most religious states have some of the highest murder rates. Or, with the exception of Alaska, the most irreligious states have the lowest murder rates.

    Still looking for meaningful causality. Murder rate nationally is about the same as it was in 1962.

  • Instant classic quote about Adam Lanza

    12/16/2012 8:27:52 AM PST · 4 of 14
    exhaustguy to indianrightwinger

    Besides telling them they can’t practice, what can you do? It appears Adam Lanza didn’t do anything on the range to warrant getting kicked off of it - let alone committed. The range makes you safer with your weapon, and it also increases your capability with your weapon. I don’t like the idea of arbitrarily restricting it.

  • Instant classic quote about Adam Lanza

    12/16/2012 8:02:06 AM PST · 1 of 14
    exhaustguy
    And he is right. Unless someone makes an overt act, it is nearly impossible to know if someone is crazy.
  • Gunman's aunt speaks out about the Conn. shooting

    12/16/2012 7:37:30 AM PST · 7 of 15
    exhaustguy to SeminoleCounty

    What did Adam Lanza ever do to warrant his commitment prior to shooting his mother? What criteria would you use?

  • A Methodical Massacre: Horror And Heroics

    12/16/2012 7:26:50 AM PST · 8 of 16
    exhaustguy to Don Corleone

    Yes and the Bushs bring it out.
    Jan 17, 1989 - After GHW Bush elected president - Stockton school shooting - Killing 5 and wound 29

    Dec 26, 2000 - Wakefield shooting - Killing 7

    Feb 5, 2001 - After GW Bush elected president - Navistar shooting - Killing 9

    Dec. 8, 2004 - After GW Bush reelected presideint -Damageplan shooting - Killing 4

    In March, 2005 - After GW Bush relected president - Living Church of God (7 killed) and Red Lake (9 including 7 in a school)

    Do you want to rethink the casual link between elections and mass murder. Two in same timeframe for Obama (none for Clinton) Carthage nursing home on March 29th,2009 (8 killed) and this one.

  • The Federal Government is Guilty Accomplice in School Shooting in Newtown Connecticut

    12/16/2012 6:51:46 AM PST · 22 of 38
    exhaustguy to Cuchulain

    I think that is a better option than arming teachers who often come into close physical contact with their students. Also if you want a teacher you want a teacher - not a teacher who is trained to engage an armed assailant in a firefight with a room full of children. Something could be said about have a well armed and trained citizenry, but we live in a country of specialists including our law enforcement personal. Even those dedicated to full-time learning on how to respond are vulnerable in these situations (the police officer at the Sikh temple who got shot for example).

  • What We Can Do and What We Cannot Do

    12/16/2012 6:44:56 AM PST · 10 of 20
    exhaustguy to Forward the Light Brigade

    Yes and society pays the price for the lack of vigilence (if there was a lack of vigilence). In addition would you want to be subjected to commitment on someone’s say so? Seems like she was a pretty good mom (homeschooled her kid, took him the the gun range and taught him to shoot). Maybe she thought the time on the range would help him work out his issues. Adam Lanza never had any run ins with the law. He was described as very smart but possibly with autism (not a reason to exclude ownership of guns??). Assuming that this had not happened, would you have been onboard with him getting a gun permit when he reached 21? What would have stopped you from allowing him to get one?

  • The Federal Government is Guilty Accomplice in School Shooting in Newtown Connecticut

    12/16/2012 6:29:38 AM PST · 14 of 38
    exhaustguy to montag813

    You get what you pay for. If you can get a well armed guard that can handle someone with a Bushmaster with taped together 30 round magazines, then get them. That person will still need to live near the community to work in the school Perhaps a retired police officer in the area? Should each local district make that decision and come up with the funds? What about poor districts?

  • The Federal Government is Guilty Accomplice in School Shooting in Newtown Connecticut

    12/16/2012 6:07:38 AM PST · 8 of 38
    exhaustguy to smith288

    Not a bad idea. About $400/student - 3% to 4% of total spend. Everyone on board for raising taxes to make them available? If not then where to get the money from?

  • What We Can Do and What We Cannot Do

    12/16/2012 6:03:07 AM PST · 4 of 20
    exhaustguy to Graybeard58

    Armed police officer (or equivalent) in every school. About $400/yr per student or 3% to 4% of total spending per student.

  • The Sandy Hook Murders: What To Do?

    12/16/2012 6:00:41 AM PST · 57 of 73
    exhaustguy to Sacajaweau

    They should be trained and armed police officers (or the equivalent). At $100,000 (salary and benefits). Total cost per student assuming 250 students - $400/yr or about 3-4% of average per student spend.

  • The Sandy Hook Murders: What To Do?

    12/16/2012 5:57:15 AM PST · 56 of 73
    exhaustguy to blu

    He had a Bushmaster with two 30 round magazines taped together (along with two handguns). Like you said seems like a stun gun (especially one locked away) would not have been effective. How well would a minimally trained teacher or principal have done with a concealed gun? Remember in the Sikh temple shooting a forewarned police officer was shot as the first responder. The Sikh shooter was taken down (actually killed himself after being shot) by two officers after one was shot by him. The shooter used a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun. What would be interesting would be a seeing some simulations with typical CCW holders responding to being surprised by a gunman like in Colorado or in this shooting. How well do you think you would do being unprepared?

  • Twelve little girls and eight little boys: Police name Connecticut massacre victims as it is

    12/16/2012 5:30:54 AM PST · 79 of 83
    exhaustguy to Jim Noble

    Latest report is Bushmaster with 20 30 round magazines taped together (60 round potential with only the need to reverse the two magazines once). Another long gun was left in the vehicle.

  • Twelve little girls and eight little boys: Police name Connecticut massacre victims as it is

    12/15/2012 3:23:28 PM PST · 27 of 83
    exhaustguy to Teacher317

    He had a Bushmaster which appears to have been his primary weapon. They sell a 30 round magazine on the Internet. I don’t know if that is what he used though.

  • Lawsuit filed in Ohio over software updates to vote tabulation machines

    11/05/2012 11:52:52 PM PST · 17 of 20
    exhaustguy to TChad

    He is a Republican Secretary of State. It seems that everyone is against the touchscreen only voting. Why do we have it? After this election we should dump everyone of those machines to the bottom of the ocean. It seems optical scan is a perfectly viable method. It creates a written record, allows for automation of the counting process, and the ballots are available for later audit/inspection/recount.

  • U.S. Rep. Paul Broun: Evolution a lie 'from the pit of hell'

    10/10/2012 2:56:02 PM PDT · 109 of 116
    exhaustguy to Persevero

    Then you don’t need any evidence for a young earth. I am still wondering what Broun’s evidence is for a young earth. The simulation could have started 10 days ago for all we know. If you elect to start the simulation with Adam and Eve 9,000 years ago, then God froze the entire fossil record including the multitude of examples of predation in place (animals eating one another) for what reason? He also decided to freeze in place numerous examples of primates and early hominids. To test our faith?

    You are aware that both the Old and New Testament went through a culling process in which many contemporary writings were not included. In addition in the Bible we have today actually has different sacred books if you are a Protestant, Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, or Mormon. Also many passages in both the Old and New Testament refer to other books which are now lost, but should be thought of as canonical (why else refer to them unless they were the inspired word of God). Many leading theologians have had heartburn with the scriptures that remained after the culling process (James’ Epistle of straw as Martin Luther said).
    Remember the church has gotten science horribly before (geocentric versus heliocentric solar system for example).

  • U.S. Rep. Paul Broun: Evolution a lie 'from the pit of hell'

    10/10/2012 4:40:39 AM PDT · 106 of 116
    exhaustguy to Persevero

    Science is not political correctness especially something as basic as whether the earth is 9,000 years old or billions of years old. Individuals are entitled to their beliefs, but Broun is specifically stating that his beliefs will govern his policy decisions in the area of science. How would your soon with a B.S. in Physics explain the evidence which exists of a earth much older (4 x 10^5) than 9,000 years. You could argue that God started (restarted) his simulation 9,000 years ago so that it would appear that events occurred prior to that time? Why would he do that? I am waiting for Rep. Broun’s evidence of a 9,000 year old earth. Will he make it available to us so we can compare it to the library of evidence that the earth is over 4 billion years old? I have an interesting book in my library called Prehistoric Life. If you accept 9,000 years old (and God did not start the clock in midstride so to speak) then an incredible variety of flora and fauna would have had to exist simulataneously and be fossilized in distict layers where bunny rabbits are not in the same layer as ophiacodons or bony fish with archaeocyathids. I think a useful application of Occam’s Razor is in order.

  • U.S. Rep. Paul Broun: Evolution a lie 'from the pit of hell'

    10/09/2012 5:24:33 AM PDT · 98 of 116
    exhaustguy to Ken H

    One of the many proofs offered for evolution is embryology. This is the conclusion that animals of different classes of the phylum chordate are remarkably similar indicating a common origin. It is further supported by the observation of embryotic of derivative classes go through the earlier stages of development (mammals going through fish like, amphibian like, and reptile like phases). It is a little more complicated than that, but you could read the description in a textbook like Strickberger.

    Haeckel’s drawings are one of the biggest criticisms of evolution since he showed more similarity than what was actually present in the later stages.

  • 7-year-old girl named Heaven latest Chicago murder victim

    06/29/2012 2:46:58 PM PDT · 24 of 44
    exhaustguy to DoughtyOne

    The kid was with her mom. Outside in the summer at 10:45 pm during a heat wave does not sound out of the box - when else can you be outside. We grab the dogs around 10:00 pm for our walk in this weather - any earlier and we would get heat stroke. Sleep in late in the summer.

  • George Zimmerman to Be Charged in Trayvon Martin's Death

    04/11/2012 12:22:02 PM PDT · 31 of 119
    exhaustguy to fruser1

    What is your opinion - should Trevor Dooley have been charged with manslaughter (older man in a fight in the park with a much younger, stronger, and bigger individual)?

    Have we reached the point in which shooting down an unarmed person in a public place is not sufficient evidence to charge an individual? Issues such as Trayvon and George’s state of mind during the altercation are matters for the jury along with all the physical evidence collected. George’s story is that he shot Trayvon while on his back being assaulted by Trayvon (kind of like Trevor Dooley). Even with those facts in place how the altercation first started is still a matter for the jury including whether Trayvon was justified in using force first because he was afraid for his life?

  • Murderer of former Braves pitcher let out of prison 10 years early

    04/04/2012 4:32:04 AM PDT · 2 of 6
    exhaustguy to seacapn

    Lyman Bostock’s killer was found not guilty due to diminished capacity (his raging jealousy). As soon as he hit the insane asylum they released him because he was not insane.

    Looks like open season on baseball players.

  • Major Nidal Hasan (Fort Hood Shooter) vs Sgt Robert Bales

    03/24/2012 7:28:04 AM PDT · 18 of 26
    exhaustguy to Future Snake Eater

    Our justice system does move slowly, but what evidence do you have that Obama is protecting Hasan? Some timelines:

    Fort Hood Shooting - Nov. 5, 2009
    Projected Trial Date - June 12, 2012
    31 months + trial (he was in a coma so some delay is expected)

    Oklahoma City Bombing - April 19, 1995
    Timothy McVeigh is convicted - June 2, 1997
    25 1/2 months

    Joseph Bozicevich - Killed his commanding officer and another
    Fragging - Sept. 14, 2008
    Conviction (no death penalty) - May 26, 2011 (story date)
    32 1/2 months

    Alberto B. Martinez - Found not guilty of killing his commanding officer
    Death of Captain and Lt. - June 2005
    Acquital - Dec, 2008
    36 months (approx)

    Steven Green - Rape and murder of 14 year old Afghani girl and her family
    Rape and Murder - March 12, 2006
    Conviction - May 7, 2009
    38 months (approx)

    Neftaly Platero - Murder of two fellow soldiers
    Two soldiers killed - Sept 23, 2010
    Hearing Delayed until June, 2012
    21 months and no trial date set