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Posts by John McDonnell

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  • Restarting Daniel’s 70th Week (Dispensational Caucus)

    08/14/2011 6:03:59 AM PDT · 35 of 41
    John McDonnell to GiovannaNicoletta
    The most important thing for us to do is to be ready when the Lord does arrive.

    Yet the article contributes nothing towards being ready, unless the act of idly speculating is defined as being ready. Those who put bumper stickers on their vehicles warning that in case of rapture there would be no one operating them obviously think that "the rapture" they believe in could happen at any time.

    What Christians always need to be ready for is a confrontation between Christ and those supposed to be doing His work on Earth, as prophesied in Malachi 3:1-5 and in the commentary on that in Luke 12:35-48.

    "Let your loins be girded about and your lights burning" calls for self-discipline that the article is unconcerned about. Nor is the article concerned about giving "portion of meat in due season", which will be rewarded at His coming. Nor is it concerned about mistreating other servants and becoming drunken in one's excuse for ministry, which will be cursed at His coming.

    "I pray not that Thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil" (John 17:15).

    Thus, the best preparation for Christ's coming is to do what pleases Him and to avoid doing what displeases Him. "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes" (Luke 12:47).

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/04/2011 5:20:44 AM PDT · 462 of 474
    John McDonnell to Elsie
    I’m still waiting for the FULLNESS to be shown.

    While walking through a large park, feeling thirsty and hungry, I noticed that under one of the shelters was what looked like a refrigerator. It was not white or black, but shining in metallic gold.

    Out of curiosity, I approached the gleaming object. I was confronted by a guard who warned me to stay away from that refrigerator. Defiantly, I answered, "This is a public park, and my taxes support your employment." While he continued warning me, I approached the golden refrigerator, which had a manufacturer's label that read "FULLNESS". There were also refrigerator magnets on the door with faces portrayed on them.

    I opened the door, saw all sorts of food and beverage, selected one of each that looked good, and moved to sit down at a nearby picnic table to eat and drink. The guard, who had been following me, warned me not to eat of the food nor drink of the beverage, as neither of them were properly labeled. He said that no one knew the origin of the golden refrigerator. "Its food and drink could be poison to one's soul."

    I thanked him for his concern, but asked, "Where do I pay for these refreshments?"

    "We don't know who put this refrigerator here, nor who supplies it, and no one is here to collect payments for the food and beverages in it. This whole thing has got to be the dastardly plot of the Devil to poison people who are hungry and thirsty."

    A while later I returned to the park wanting to taste other food and beverage in the golden refrigerator. I was confronted by a lady guard who repeated the same warnings that the previous guard had voiced.

    Before opening the golden door titled "FULLNESS", I noticed that the face of the former guard was portrayed on a refrigerator magnet. I was confused by this, but again took out some food and beverage and began enjoying them.

    Meanwhile a family was approaching the refrigerator, and seeing me happily eating and drinking, wondered if I got the refreshments from the refrigerator. I told them that there is plenty of good food and beverage in it, and that no one needs to be paid.

    At this, the woman guard jumped into activity, warning the family that the refreshments were not properly labeled and could be poisonous to their souls. I countered, "I have enjoyed refreshments from this refrigerator before and suffered no ill effects."

    The guard, who was much more authoritative-looking than I, convinced the family to stay away from the golden refrigerator. I went back for more refreshments. As I shut the door, I noticed that the guard was gone. But on the refrigerator door was a new refrigerator magnet with her face portrayed on it, frozen, like all the other faces, in expressions of concern for the welfare of souls.

    This greatly upset me. Meanwhile, another guard was approaching.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/03/2011 7:21:15 PM PDT · 457 of 474
    John McDonnell to svcw
    Joseph Smith was so strong that he could run like a deer through the forest with 435 pounds of gold in his arms aka gold tablets.

    A careful study of The Testimony of Eight Witnesses shows that these men who handled and hefted the plates and saw the engravings thereon would notice that they did not state that the plates were made of gold, only that they "have the appearance of gold". This suggests that they were either composed of another metal or alloy plated with gold, or were composed of an alloy of gold.

    That they were definitely not made of solid gold is proven in two ways: (1) As related in Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses by Richard Lloyd Anderson, William Smith, in an 1883 book, wrote: "I was permitted to lift them as they laid in a pillowcase, but not to see them, as it was contrary to the commands he had received. They weighed about 60 lbs. according to the best of my judgment." That would be much too light for plates of solid gold in the dimensions described by Joseph Smith and others. (2) In the 1879 Saints' Herald interview of the former Emma Smith, she stated: "The plates often lay on the table without any attempt at concealment, wrapped in a small linen table cloth, which I had given him to fold them in. I once felt the plates as they thus lay on the table, tracing their outline and shape. They seemed to be pliable like thick paper, and would rustle with a metallic sound when the edges were moved by the thumb, as one does sometimes thumb the edges of a book." Sheets of pure gold, if bent, would not spring back flat again.

    There are many alloys of copper. In an 1884 sermon, William Smith, who was not among the eight who saw the plates, stated: "When the plates were brought in they were wrapped up in a tow frock. My father then put them into a pillow case. Father said, 'What, Joseph, can we not see them?' 'No. I was disobedient the first time, but I intend to be faithful this time. For I was forbidden to show them until they are translated, but you can feel them.' We handled them and could tell what they were. They were not quite so large as this Bible. Could tell whether they were round or square. Could raise the leaves this way (raising a few leaves of the Bible before him). One could easily tell that they were not a stone, hewn out to deceive, or even a block of wood. Being a mixture of gold and copper, they were heavier than stone, and very much heavier than wood."

    I'd like to know where William got the information about the "mixture of copper and gold", and whether "mixture" meant a copper-gold alloy, or copper or some copper-based alloy plated with gold. In any case, "435 pounds" presumes a metal composition that is not supported by the historical evidence available. In other words, "435 pounds" is urban legend, designed to enable ignorant mockery.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/02/2011 8:47:26 PM PDT · 427 of 474
    John McDonnell to reaganaut
    Hebrew structure is such that a particular form of the word (sans vowels) is recognizable and carries a certain meaning. So your claim that an absence of vowels would have led to meaning changes is errant.

    In Tanakh - The Holy Scriptures, published by the Jewish Publication Society, at Ezekiel 16:30, a footnote indicates that the words for "How sick was your heart", through a change in vocalization (which involves vowels), yields "How furious I was with you". Several other examples of changes in meaning with changes in vocalization are shown in the book's footnotes.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/02/2011 6:03:25 PM PDT · 417 of 474
    John McDonnell to Godzilla
    John, please do some more detailed research before embarrassing yourself further. The "jot" (Hebrew word "Yodh") is the 10th letter of the Hebrew alphabet. It is not a vowel mark John.

    Same goes for tittle. Tittle is used by Greek grammarians of the accents and diacritical points. It means the little lines or projections by which the Hebrew letters differ from each other. One example would be the difference between the letter L and I. The difference is only one small mark.

    Again, it is not a vowel mark. Therefore the rest of your argument is invalid.

    "Jot and tittle" has a meaning going beyond the meaning of its individual words. It is an expression that means "the least part of". The NIV translates the phrase, "not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen." Hebrew vowel markings were sometimes not even written. Yet not writing them has lead to false vocalizations, which has resulted in changes in word meanings.

    Even though vowel markings can be less than "the smallest letter" and "the least stroke of a pen", they can determine whether or not the meaning of a scriptural passage can become corrupted.

    Therefore, when Jesus referred to the least part of the law and the prophets, which He Himself inspired to be written with their full vowel markings included for clarity, He had to be referring to vowel markings as well.

    Are you actually suggesting that Hebrew writing, which can be misinterpreted when bereft of vowel markings, NEVER made use of them until the Middle Ages? If that is your position, please confirm it.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/02/2011 4:45:21 PM PDT · 402 of 474
    John McDonnell to reaganaut
    John, the vowel markings in Hebrew were created in the early middle ages and therefore would not have been an issue for the Book of Mormon ‘authors’.

    Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ taught, before His Atonement for our sins: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    After His Atonement for our sins, Jesus Christ taught the Nephites in the land Bountiful: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, One jot or one tittle hath not passed from the from the law, but in me it hath all been fulfilled.

    Thus, both the people in Palestine and the people at Boutiful in Mesoamerica knew what jots and tittles were. Yes, they would have been an issue for Book of Mormon authors.

    I think what happened is this. All Hebrew scriptures were first written with full vowel markings. As they were accepted by common consent into the expanding canon of scripture, those who recited them would often do so from memory. Because the proper vocalizations were known, copying the Holy Scriptures using consonants only was a short cut that caused no problems until reciters became scarce. Improper vocalizations of the consonants-only copies resulted in various vocalizations, resulting in disputes over which words were intended. Therefore, in the Middle Ages, if you are correct, vowel markings were restored to help stop the spread of improper vocalizations.

    Secondly, the wide strokes are not part of ancient Hebrew, again another medieval construction.

    But since the people in Palestine and the people at Boutiful in Mesoamerica knew what jots and tittles were, written Hebrew, for ease in reading, would have employed a mixture of wider and narrower strokes.

    And what is the point in writing in a language no one could understand?

    Moroni explained that:
    "And now behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge in the characters, which are called among us reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech. And if our plates had been suffiently large, we should have written in the Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in out record. But the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also that none other people knoweth our language, and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof."

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/02/2011 5:17:32 AM PDT · 377 of 474
    John McDonnell to reaganaut
    Not only is Hebrew more compact, but ancient Hebrew is much more “blocky” and simple than any of the forms of ancient Egyptian.

    Hebrew caracters with no vowel markings are indeed compact. However, once you start adding tittles and other minute markings, you've got a major problem for engraving on metal plates. Also Hebrew characters are written in a variety of stroke widths, another major problem.

    You do not seem to catch the significance of "reformed" Egyptian. While you are correct that ancient Egyptian writing is not simple, Chinese caractors are also complex, and a modernized and simplified form of Chinese caractors does exist. One could even call that simplified Chinese "reformed".

    The Book of Mormon plainly states that no other people can read their reformed Egyptian caractors, which means that Book of Mormon authors and scribes invented reformed Egyptian specifically for their recording on plates. They would obviously create a caractor set that would not, as in Hebrew, have various widths of stroke nor a system of tittles and other time-consuming minute markings.

    I only wish that the 8 witnesses had been a little more specific in describing the reformed Egyptian that they looked at: "and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated, we did handle with our hands: and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship".

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/01/2011 5:02:02 PM PDT · 343 of 474
    John McDonnell to Elsie
    I thought the BoM was in REFORMED Egyptian!!!

    If you thought that, you would be correct.

    If you studied the Book of Mormon, you would find that the reason they wrote in reformed Egyptian instead of the Hebrew they spoke in was because of the difficulty of engraving Hebrew characters on metal plates. Their reformed Egyptian characters were invented to make engraving easier and more compact.

    Moroni did not like having to write in reformed Egyptian: "Thou hast also made our words [spoken in Hebrew] powerful and great, even that we cannot write them. Wherefore, when we write [in reformed Egyptian], we behold our weakness and stumble because of the placing of our words; and I fear lest the Gentiles shall mock at our words."

    "And when I had said this, the Lord spake unto me, saying: 'Fools mock, but they shall mourn; and my grace is sufficient for the meek that they shall take no advantage of your weakness; and if men come unto Me, I will show them their weakness; I give men weakness that they may be humble, and My grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before Me.'"

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/01/2011 4:34:39 PM PDT · 334 of 474
    John McDonnell to Tennessee Nana
    Nobody but he himself was ever worthy enough to see and read and touch them

    I believe that is an intentional lie, because anyone who has actually read the Book of Mormon has read that 8 witnesses handled the plates and hefted them, and I cannot believe that a critic of the Book of Mormon would be ignorant of what one is supposed to be criticizing.

    Richard Lloyd Anderson's 1981 book Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses shows that none of the 11 witnesses, despite the fact that many of them were expelled from the church or left on their own, ever denied their actual printed testimonies. Some of them were hounded to do so, but each died without denying their printed testimonies until only one was left, David Whitmer. Since all the other 10 had failed to cave under pressure, enemies of the Book of Mormon slapped a full court press on David Whitmer, who refused to cave while he was alive and left a message supporting the Book of Mormon on his gravestone in Richmond, Missouri.

    Game over. Score 11 for Book of Mormon enthusiasts. Score 0 for Book of Mormon haters.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/01/2011 12:41:41 PM PDT · 302 of 474
    John McDonnell to Tennessee Nana
    John this could be said of the supposed “book of mormon” Have any experts ever examined the original ???

    Many experts have studied the two original manuscripts of the Book of Mormon, and have established who were the scribes for each of the manuscripts. There is the dictated manuscript, which survives in chunks and fragments, and is owned by the LDS. And there is the printer's manuscript, which is almost fully intact, and is owned by Community of Christ.

    There are many minor differences in the two manuscripts, and all those differences have been studied and commented on. Scholars have found that the dictated manuscripts has Hebraisms that sound strange in English, such as double negatives becoming a stronger no instead of canceling each other out, as in English.

    As for the original metal plates, when the translation was completed, an angel took them, presumably back to Hill Cumorah in Southern Mexico, where the other plates are hidden until the time comes when God allows them to be discovered. God told the three witnesses of the Book of Mormon that its translation was true. So when the Book of Mormon plates are rediscovered, we will know how to translate reformed Egyptian. Therefore, the remainder of the plates written in reformed Egyptian can be translated without any need for a seer. The Brass Plates are written in the Egyptian that Moses was proficient in, so no seer is needed to translate those either. In other words, when the plates are made available for study, they can be translated and published fairly quickly.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/01/2011 12:01:10 PM PDT · 294 of 474
    John McDonnell to Godzilla
    I cited the sources along with the materials John should you desire to research further.

    No you didn't. You were extremely vague about what you claimed. Your whole approach has been to throw out bits and pieces without giving full sources for any of it, apparently hoping that the sheer volume of the bits and pieces will make it look like your position is solid, when it is not.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/01/2011 11:38:50 AM PDT · 293 of 474
    John McDonnell to Tennessee Nana
    She pretended for the rest of her life that her cheatin no good husband had been true to her

    That is your belief, not a statement of fact. The facts are that Emma Smith was an honest woman, who fully understood before the interview with Joseph Smith III that church leaders did not want any coverup whatsoever, that they wanted to know the truth even if it was ugly. Emma Smith answered the questions, and the net result was that the wife of Joseph Smith Jr stated that to her knowledge he had no other wives, spiritual or otherwise. Since the interview was conducted just before she died, it was published as "Last Testimony of Sister Emma" in Saints' Herald for October 1, 1879.

    Soon after that publication, "the people in Utah became greatly agitated" (RLDS Church History 4:290). In the interview, Emma had testified that there was no revelation on polygamy prior to her husband's death. That meant that Brigham Young had fabricated it, and the Utah membership had been lied to.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/01/2011 9:35:58 AM PDT · 286 of 474
    John McDonnell to Godzilla
    Two (2) statements by smith in his own handwriting acknowledging that he practiced and endorsed polygamy

    If you are so sure about that, then you should be able to prove everything that you are here claiming. Where can those handwritten documents be viewed? Who were the handwriting experts that testified that that they could not have been forgeries? Were did you learn of their existence, if they actually exist?

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/01/2011 9:25:41 AM PDT · 285 of 474
    John McDonnell to Godzilla
    Open your self to the truth - it is freeing John.

    I am open to the truth. In my judgment, what you have presented is not the truth, but rather a hasty, undiscerning gathering of whatever you can find that can be seen as damaging to those who believe that the Book of Mormon is what it claims to be.

    God knows your motives. I do not. But I cannot see how your sloppy attacks can do anybody any good. I think that you are wasting the days of your probation trying to tear down what you don't like, instead of laboring to build up what you love.

    Open your self to the truth - it is freeing Godzilla.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/01/2011 9:04:07 AM PDT · 283 of 474
    John McDonnell to Godzilla
    No simplification involved - it is a statement of fact.

    There are no simple facts in complex situations like the Reorganization of the church, which developed after all of the confusion during the Nauvoo period of church history and the rivalries after the death of Joseph Smith Jr. It has been a while since I have read the volumes of RLDS church history. The movement to reorganize seemed to be blessed by the Spirit, especially in gatherings of saints, but the individual leaders had greatly differing views about how to reorganize. As the process unfolded through many deliberations, certain leaders did not like the direction being established and left. But the testimony of the majority was that the Spirit was guiding them. In 1860, Joseph Smith III became a spokeman for that guidance. As with anything else, we need to know who, what, when, where, and why disgruntled persons made statements (which are gleefully quoted by Mormon-haters without regard for who, what, when, where, and why).

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/01/2011 8:42:42 AM PDT · 281 of 474
    John McDonnell to Elsie
    Religion by commitee. Who needs it? Do they ALL put their faces into a hat to discern the TRUENESS or 'revelation'?

    Jesus taught: "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye canniot bear them now. Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth" (John 16:12-13). When people gather in the name of Christ to advance His cause, the Spirit can, through their prayerful deliberations, guide them. Interactions in the Spirit are mind-expanding, soul-inspiring experiences. The Acts of the Apostles demonstrate that church conferences helped the church stay focused on its service to Christ. They could be contentious, at times, but a good course of action would usually prevail. Through the guidance of the Spirit, early church conferences dealt with the numerous problems they faced, clearing the way for many great and marvelous works to be accomplished. Isolated Christians might individually do much good, but organized actions having the full blessings of the Spirit can change the course of history.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/01/2011 8:06:35 AM PDT · 278 of 474
    John McDonnell to Godzilla
    you overtly avoided smith's own admission

    If I had the date of the first publication of it, the name and motives of the publisher of it, and some commentary on it from persons other than enemies of the church, for balance, then I might be able to deal with it. My guess is that it was fabricated by polygamists to justify their sins, or by enemies of the church who thought they could get away with "making things up".

    Some lies are so impressive that they are taken as fact. For example, Tina Fey's imitation of Sarah Palin saying, "I can see Russia from my house," is taken by many as being something that Sarah Palin actually said, and many will never, because they are closeminded, believe that she did not say it.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    08/01/2011 5:11:20 AM PDT · 274 of 474
    John McDonnell to Elsie
    "To this day their children and grandchildren continue to do as their fathers did."

    Elsie applied this to the present Mormon church. Since the Mormon church no longer practises blood atonement and polygamy, it is not continuing to do as their fathers did. Therefore, the application is false.

    The application is true, however, concerning baptism for the dead, which is not mentioned in the fullness of the gospel. Here, the Mormon church, even if it came to realize that baptism for the dead is a false doctrine, could not discard it without offending its membership. The RLDS was correct to reject Joseph Smith Jr's "revelations" on baptism for the dead, because Community of Christ believes in the principle of common consent. The president of the church, past or present, cannot force on her anything claiming to be of divine origin. The church, must, through delegates to a general conference, either accept or reject communications claiming divine origin, and without such acceptance, they cannot have scriptural authority for the church. The documents on baptism for the dead, as first presented, were never given approval by a general conference of the church.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/31/2011 8:23:51 PM PDT · 271 of 474
    John McDonnell to Godzilla
    even founders of RLDS acknowledged smith to be a polygamist

    That statement is an oversimplification, especially since the RLDS came to believe on good evidence that Joseph Smith Jr was not a polygamist. Back when they were contending against polygamy, RLDS ministers liked to quote Jeremiah 17:5-8, reading into it as follows:

    "Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord [Brigham Young]. For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh [the Reorganization]; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness [beyond the reach of American law], in a salt land and not inhabited [Salt Lake City and surroundings]. Blessed is the man that trusteth in the Lord, and whose hope the Lord is. For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the [Missouri] river, and shall not see when the heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit."

    God loves repentance. No matter what the sins of the Mormon church were, that church is doing much more good than evil now. "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and He will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon. For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:7-9).

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/31/2011 7:34:56 PM PDT · 269 of 474
    John McDonnell to Godzilla
    And your 'evidence' is even more tainted

    Your "even more" is an admission that your evidence is tainted.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/31/2011 6:25:59 PM PDT · 267 of 474
    John McDonnell to Godzilla
    Sadly for your case, the evidence is more than adequate to show smith and others were practicing polygamy from early on - long before Young and Utah.

    Your "evidence" is tainted. The two main sources for charges of early polygamy teaching are: (1) polygamists seeking to justify their sins; (2) enemies of the church who were anxious to find anything negative about the church so that they could gleefully trumpet it.

    Among the evidence against early polygamy teaching are:

    (1) the continued publication of the Book of Mormon with its condemnation of polygamy.

    (2) The "law of the church" in the Doctrine and Covenants revelation of February 9, 1831, which states: "Thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart, and shall cleave unto her and none else; and he that looketh upon a woman to lust after her, shall deny the faith, and shall not have the Spirit; and if he repents not, he shall be cast out."

    (3) Joseph Smith's revision of the Bible in 1833, which made revisions supporting the condemnation of polygamy in the Book of Mormon.

    (4) the 1835 statement by church leaders on marriage that was from then on, until Brigham Young had it removed, published in Doctrine and Covenments: "Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife; and one woman but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again."

    (5) removals from church membership, during the presidency of Joseph Smith Jr, of persons engaging in adulterous relationships.

    (6) the interview of the former Emma Smith by her son Joseph Smith III, before which she understood that the truth no matter how ugly was to be told, and she stated that she knew of no other wife, spiritual or otherwise, of her former husband (after his death, Emma remarried).

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/31/2011 5:39:53 PM PDT · 266 of 474
    John McDonnell to Colofornian
    Please tell us the "motives" Joseph F. Smith had to lie about his uncle when he said Smith was given the go-ahead for polygamy as early as 1832. Joseph F. Smith made that statement in 1878 -- when he was not beholden to Brigham Young...Brigham died in 1877.

    You can't be serious! Joseph F. Smith was a polygamist. He had every incentive to justify his sins, and therefore would quite apt to twist anything to make it look like Joseph Smith Jr was a polygamist!

    In the memoirs of Joseph Smith III (1832-1914), who, beginning in 1860, served as president of the Reorganized church, are poignant accounts of his encountering plural wives during his missionary trips through Utah.

    "I was once invited to [cousin] Joseph F.'s. He received me kindly as I arrived, and we chatted for a little while before supper was announced.... To me the situation in which I found myself seemed very strange. For the first time in my life I was permitted to see thus at close range the domestic relations of a polygamous family and the actual operation of a doctrine which had long been unspeakably repulsive to me. The very fibers of my being seemed to cry out in protest, and so strong was my prejudice and antipathy that I seemed to feel almost physically ill as I contemplated the scene. There, at one board sat a complacent man, surrounded by three wives and a large number of children ... The women did not take much part in our conversation. I thought I detected upon the countenances of two of them, evidence of some distress of mind, and possibly, regret, as if they were conscious that the opinions I would form of their family relations were not likely to be very complimentary to them."

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/31/2011 5:28:56 PM PDT · 264 of 474
    John McDonnell to Colofornian
    You also note that Mormonism's "jumpstart" is the Book of MORMON. I cited the Book of Mormon, which you have elevated in your life. You now concede that the content of the Book of Mormon was put together by "wicked old Mormons?"

    I made no such concession, and I think that you know that. The content of the Book of Mormon could not have been put together by "wicked old Mormons", which refers to polygamists, because polygamists would never have put together a book that has the strongest polygamy in religious literature.

    "... they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms because of the things which were written concerning David and Solomon his son. Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before Me, saith the Lord."

    The King James Version of the Bible, in I Kings 11:4 seems to approve of the David's polygamy:

    "For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father."

    Joseph Smith Jr, in his revision of the Bible, made I Kings 11:4 read:

    For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, his wives turned away his heart after other gods; and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, and it became as the heart of David his father."

    Thus, Joseph Smith's revision of the Bible took into consideration the condemnation of polygamy in the Book of Mormon. This may explain why Brigham Young was anxious to obtain from Emma Smith the manuscripts of Joseph Smith's Bible revision. Young would no doubt have suppressed Joseph Smith Jr's revision of I Kings 11:4, and other similar revisions. Emma Smith gave the manuscripts of Joseph Smigh Jr's Bible translation to the RLDS, who published it to the joy of those contending against Mormon polygamy and to the chagrin of Brigham Young.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/31/2011 4:34:43 PM PDT · 260 of 474
    John McDonnell to Colofornian
    I believe that you are twisting my reference to "wicked old Mormons" to suit your agenda. I had pointed out that the Mormon leaders involved in polygamy, to answer criticism from Latter Day Saints who claimed that polygamy was an apostate invention, lied about Joseph Smith Jr to justify their sins.
    The evidence for this is there for those who seek the truth:

    (1) The pretended "revelation" by Joseph Smith Jr was not published until several years after polygamy had already been practised in Utah.

    (2) Mormon polygamy became prevalent after the Mormon church followed Brigham Young out of the United States and her domain of laws in which polygamy must not exist.

    (3) Mormon missionaries in Britain and Europe did not tell converts about polygamy. When converts migrated to Utah they were shocked to find it practised. Many of the migrants sought to escape, and many of those who did escape joined the RLDS, which was nobly trying to expose polygamy as a gross apostacy from church teachings.

    See http://www.angelfire.com/ks/landzastanza/scarlet.html

    (4) Mormon leaders did not allow the 1835 statement by church leaders, including Joseph Smith Jr, supporting monogamous marriage to remain in their Doctrine and Covenants, when they added the pretended "revelation" on polygamy.

    (5) Joseph Smith III's interview with his mother, the former Emma Smith, was not a case of Emma trying to protect her family, because her RLDS church president son was adamant in insisting that she not do that, that the church, to avoid future embarrassment, must have the truth, even if it is ugly. Fully understanding the concern of her son, she insisted that Joseph Smith Jr had no wife other than herself.

    (6) The reference to Emma Smith in the forged "revelation" was consistent with Brigham Young's hatred for her. He was livid that she did not release to him the manuscripts of Joseph Smith Jr.'s revision of the Bible. He was livid that she would not support his attempts at church leadership. So while forging the "revelation", slipping in some wording that has God condemning her for not supporting polygamy, was probably his way of lashing back at her.

    The motives of those who wanted to brand Joseph Smith as a polygamist must be critically examined before their statements can be accepted as reliable.

    "Wicked old Mormons" was intended to describe Mormons who told lies to justify their sins. Joseph Smith Jr was not a polygamist, nor did he encourage anyone to practise it. Brigham Young forged a document to the contrary, and the undiscerning gleefully latch on to that for reasons that should be also be critically examined.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/28/2011 7:35:47 AM PDT · 229 of 474
    John McDonnell to Normandy
    Some of the principles I see put into practice in my faith are charity, mercy, chastity, faith in Christ, prayer, family unity, sacrifice, gentleness, kindness, patience, patriotism, service.

    And I am not saying that these qualities are unique to Mormons — but these are things we teach and that I see being practiced. To say there is nothing good in Mormonism is absurd.

    Well said! Christ knows who loves Him and who does not.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/28/2011 7:26:50 AM PDT · 228 of 474
    John McDonnell to Colofornian
    Back to that standard I mentioned, yes…if Elsie doesn’t like to be labeled as “Satan,” I suppose consistency would be in order.

    Bingo! Thank you for admitting the obvious. Now that I got you to blink, I can easily dispense of your quotes of Mormon leaders doing what Elsie did by stating AGAIN that I have never been a Mormon. There is no link between me and a bunch of wicked old Mormons of the past, except for the common sinful human nature that links us all. The RLDS church that I joined had spent decades of difficult ministry trying to preach, because listeners wanted to know how the RLDS was different from the LDS. The RLDS was falsely accused of many things that it had no connection to or sympathy with. Neither myself nor my church are responsible for what a bunch of wicked old Mormons of the past have said. Therefore, to suggest a responsibility that does not exist is dishonest and unworthy of continuation.

    As for my calling people anti-Mormon, what is wrong with that, if nearly everything they write about "mormonism" is intended to make anyone judged to be a part of "mormonism" look bad?

    Christ knows who His people are. When Luke 12:35-48 is fulfilled, His confrontation with those supposed to be doing His work on Earth will cleanse His church of whatever false doctrines have crept into it. When that day comes, I would rather be found doing things to build up His church than doing things to tear it down. If "mormonism" needs a major cleansing, which it does, "antimormonism" is also due for a cleansing, which it will get, whether it wants it or not.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/27/2011 8:33:37 PM PDT · 196 of 474
    John McDonnell to Godzilla
    No John, Jesus was not talking about mesoamerica, not in the slightest.

    You tell me that without any authority for it other than your desire that it was not so. My authority for telling you that Jesus visited His "other sheep" in Mesoamerica are John 10:16, that had to be fulfilled somewhere, the Book of Mormon, which revealed that it was somewhere in the New World, and the findings of archaeology, which show that the only place in the New World where it could have been, considering the large population and advanced cilivization requirements of the Book of Mormon account, was Mesoamerica. There is also the witness of Neil Steede concerning the location of Hill Cumorah in Mexico, where numerous stone and obsidion weapons have been found with traces of blood embedded in them.

    http://www.hillcumorahexpeditionteam.com/April12Newst05.html

    That is at least greater evidence than your paltry wishing that it was not so.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/27/2011 6:46:19 PM PDT · 183 of 474
    John McDonnell to ejonesie22
    I don't even get it. I mean LDS and derivatives is enough but to believe in the BOM and NOT be Mormon. If the BOM is true, then Smith is a prophet and he was clear theirs was the only way... So how does that work...

    I am a member of the Community of Christ, which prior to 2001 was the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The RLDS had a lonely struggle over many decades trying to educate the general public as to how the Utah Mormon church had departed from the original beliefs of the church founded by Joseph Smith Jr.

    Beginning in 1860, Joseph Smith III was the president of the RLDS. There is high drama in his memoirs, such as his first visit to Utah, when Brigham Young tried to keep his followers from listening to the son of the founding prophet.

    Joseph Smith III and other RLDS ministers had to spend major portions of their preaching trying to expose Mormon apostacy, such as the then current doctrine of plural wives. Meanwhile, the RLDS made use of the doctrine of common consent to clarify which communications had scriptural status and which did not. Unless a general conference had officially confirmed a writing as scriptural, it was not accepted to be so. Thus, the RLDS never accepted "The Book of Abraham" as scripture, never practised baptism for the dead (finally stripping its documents of any scriptural authority in 1970), and has never allowed secret temple rites to be practised in its two temples, the Kirtland, Ohio Temple (gaining property rights to it due to a civil court ruling that the Utah Mormon church had departed from the original doctrines of the church), and The Temple in Independence, Missouri. Unlike Mormon temples, both Community of Christ temples are open to the general public.

    Joseph Smith III was critical of many of his father's activities during the Nauvoo, Illinois period of church history, when Joseph Smith Jr. was producing "The Book of Abraham" and the false doctrine of baptism for the dead.

    Concerning the rise of polygamy, Joseph Smith III wanted to know the truth no matter how ugly it might be. In a key interview with his mother, the former Emma Smith, it was established for the RLDS church that Joseph Smith, Jr. did not have plural wives, not physically nor spiritually.

    The motives for branding the founding prophet with that practise were obvious. Enemies of the church jumped at anything that would suggest it, and even recruited persons to testify of it. Polygamists in the Mormon church made up things about the Joseph Smith Jr. to protect their own polygamy, even faking a "revelation" from Joseph Smith, Jr. supporting their practise, removing the 1835 statement on monogamous marriage from their Doctrine and Covenants, and recruiting persons to lie about Joseph Smith Jr.

    Elsie, Colofornia, and other Mormon-haters love to quote "dcumentation" of Joseph Smith Jr.'s plural marriages, which are of course taken from statements recruited by enemies of the church and by polygamists in the church seeking to justify their scarlet sins. Thus, Elsie and Colofornia merely dredge up lies of the past and present them as if they were true.

    When Utah became a Territory of the United States and was moving towards statehood, polygamy had to be outlawed, several Mormon church leaders were arrested, and the Mormon church president had to issue an official statement that the church would no longer practise polygamy.

    In the Book of Mormon, in the Book of Jacob, is a vigorous denunciation of polygamy, which had begun to creep into Nephite life. The polygamous Mormons got around this denunciation by claiming that the Book of Mormon, though containing the fullness of the gospel, was a "lower law". The "higher law" was the polygamy that they would later be forced to abandon.

    Something amazing happened when Martin Harris, one of the three witnesses of the Book of Mormon, moved to polgamous Utah. In his final years on Earth he testified of the truth of the Book of Mormon with such sincerity and enthusiam that this one man began to convert the Mormon church to the Book of Mormon. The result of that conversion was that while the RLDS was rather weak in promoting the Book of Mormon, the Mormon church began publishing it with vigor, translating it into many languages for worldwide influence. So the rather small and publicly embarrassed Mormon church began to prosper and became the major denomination of Latter Day Saints.

    Although the Mormon church continued with some of its false teachings, baptism for the dead, secret temple rites, etc., its promotion of the Book of Mormon helped that church become readily understandable and popular. Although the Community of Christ has been more doctrinally sound, its leaders cozied up to scholarship highly critical of the Book of Mormon, while its remaining Book of Mormon enthusiasts were given no official church support.

    One of these enthusiasts, Neil Steede, while doing archaeological research in Mesoamerica, met one of the three immortal Nephites on the original Hill Cumorah in Mexico. Steede has remained a member of the Community of Christ, while continuing to lead The Hill Cumorah Expedition Team in anticipation of the Nephite records being discovered (which would be a major shock to Community of Christ leaders, who regard the Book of Mormon as a source of stories to refer to only, not as the historical document that it is).

    There is much drama concerning the Book of Mormon yet to unfold. The progress of Mesoamaerican archaeology, at first way off from what is presented in the Book of Mormon, has steadily been moving in the direction of the pattern of civilations described in the Book of Mormon. The high population and advanced cultures required by the Book of Mormon are now being confirmed by archaeological discoveries.

    The Mayan glyphs are gradually becoming accessible to translation. One shocker came when a stele giving the name of Palenque was at first translated "Bountiful", the name in the Book of Mormon of the city where Jesus Christ appeared to His "other sheep" in America. Perhaps that prompted someone to retranslate it as "Abundant", lest it give support to the historicity of the Book of Mormon.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/27/2011 4:50:30 PM PDT · 179 of 474
    John McDonnell to Colofornian
    ...but you are now claiming that Gentile Christians have a shepherd other than Jesus because He wasn't sent to us, eh?

    Classic misrepresentation. I made no such claim. I was merely stating what is obvious from the New Testament itself. The Acts of the Apostles is the record of a major shift in missionary outreach from the descendents of Israel (to whom Jesus Himself ministered) to the Gentiles (to whom the disciples of Jesus eventually ministered). When Gentiles become Christians, obviously Christ becomes their shepherd as well. Duh!

    In Matthew 15:24 we have Jesus teaching: "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." So I was true to the New Testament when I interpreted the "other sheep" of John 10:16 as predicting a future appearance to decendants of the house of Israel. The Book of Mormon records less than a hundredth part of His Mesoamerican ministry, but those passages contain some unfragmented glimpses of a ministry that even in words only are stunningly beautiful. Thank you, Jesus, for allowing us to have an account of what some of that was like. May we soon become worthy to receive the remainder of the records of Your Mesoamerican ministry!

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/27/2011 11:23:00 AM PDT · 162 of 474
    John McDonnell to Colofornian
    Here is what I wrote to Elsie:

    I, John McDonnell, wrote: But I don't waste the days of my probation attacking Mormons, especially since I am convinced that the Book of Mormon itself is true.

    Elsie quoted this statement of mine, and replied in these words:

    Well Satan; it's not every day I get to reply directly to you; as it is usually one of your expendable minions that is sent into battle. You DO know your fate; don't you? You time is SHORT: is THAT why you are trying SO hard to steer SO many into YOUR hell? The place CREATED for the DEVIL and his ANGELS??

    This takes "demonizing one's opponents" to a new level. What set her off must have been my phrase "the days of my probation", which, as anyone who has calmly read the Book of Mormon knows, is in full harmony with Book of Mormon teachings. My concordance shows 13 occurances of "probation" or "probationary" referring to human life on Earth. It simply means that humans are "tested" by God, which is a solid biblical concept. God tests, Satan tempts. Those who are wise pass God's tests, while not yielding to Satan's tempts away from what is pleasing to God. Within the grace of redemption, our temporal life experiences are a preparation for eternal life experiences, when we will know as we are known.

    I don't think that Elsie's reacting to a statement of mine by calling me Satan is the kind of response that is pleasing to God. That it went unchallenged by the many anti-Mormons here says something about them as well. One should be careful that one's zeal for "defending the faith" does not descend into hateful name-calling that is lacking in the love for all people that true Christianity is famous for.

    I am still waiting for a response to what Elsie wrote about me from someone other than Elsie. Do you, Colofornian, believe that what she wrote about me is pleasing to God?

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/27/2011 6:04:30 AM PDT · 140 of 474
    John McDonnell to John McDonnell
    My last sentence left out a word that I now restore:

    "One should be careful that one's zeal for "defending the faith" does NOT descend into hateful name-calling that is lacking in the love for all people that true Christianity is famous for."

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/27/2011 5:59:47 AM PDT · 139 of 474
    John McDonnell to Elsie
    I, John McDonnell, wrote:

    But I don't waste the days of my probation attacking Mormons, especially since I am convinced that the Book of Mormon itself is true.

    Elsie quoted this statement of mine, and replied in these words:

    Well Satan; it's not every day I get to reply directly to you; as it is usually one of your expendable minions that is sent into battle. You DO know your fate; don't you? You time is SHORT: is THAT why you are trying SO hard to steer SO many into YOUR hell? The place CREATED for the DEVIL and his ANGELS??

    This takes "demonizing one's opponents" to a new level. What set her off must have been my phrase "the days of my probation", which, as anyone who has calmly read the Book of Mormon knows, is in full harmony with Book of Mormon teachings. My concordance shows 13 occurances of "probation" or "probationary" referring to human life on Earth. It simply means that humans are "tested" by God, which is a solid biblical concept. God tests, Satan tempts. Those who are wise pass God's tests, while not yielding to Satan's tempts away from what is pleasing to God. Within the grace of redemption, our temporal life experiences are a preparation for eternal life experiences, when we will know as we are known.

    I don't think that Elsie's reacting to a statement of mine by calling me Satan is the kind of response that is pleasing to God. That it went unchallenged by the many anti-Mormons here says something about them as well. One should be careful that one's zeal for "defending the faith" does descend into hateful name-calling that is lacking in the love for all people that true Christianity is famous for.

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/26/2011 4:45:29 PM PDT · 100 of 474
    John McDonnell to Normandy
    If God chooses to reveal Himself to another group of people in another time and place shouldn’t we be glad to have a record of that?

    There is only one Christ, but no reason why He can’t visit anywhere he chooses, or speak to whom he chooses. I have no reason to believe that the Bible is the only place his words and works are recorded.

    Normandy

    Especially since Christ Himself stated that such should in fact be the case:

    "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice" (John 10:16).

    The idea that the "other sheep" refers to Gentiles is false, because the Gentiles were to be converted through the ministry of His disciples, who were of the tribes of Israel. Jesus Himself was not sent to the Gentiles. Therefore, the "other sheep" would be other descendants of the scattered tribes of Israel. The Book of Mormon reveals that one such group had migrated to the New World. Its account of His ministry there, which I have good reasons to believe was in Mesoamerica, is one of the greatest revelations of what Jesus is like, because it has some unfragmented narration that is stunningly beautiful. Yet there is at least a hundred times more of that ministry that is being held back until God knows that His people are spiritually ready to receive it.

    I am not sure whether this greater knowledge will come prior to or after Christ confronts those supposed to be doing His work on Earth (Luke 12:35-48).

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/26/2011 12:54:51 PM PDT · 75 of 474
    John McDonnell to Godzilla
    You hide your denominations because you don't want to be linked to anything that might be criticized. Meanwhile, you single out one denomination that you can study just enough to attack, sloppily mixing its long-abandoned practises with current ones and using guilt by association as your weapon of choice. Are people condemned by God for being brought up in or otherwise joining a denomination that other denominations judge to be not Christian?

    Christian marriage, based on the teachings of its founder, is monogamous. An evil man, Brigham Young, led the Mormon church into polygamy, based on a false "revelation" that he falsely claimed was through Joseph Smith, Jr., who condemned the practise through his own words and through the Book of Mormon he translated.

    Despite secret temple marriage rites that are not a part of the fullness of the gospel taught in the Book of Mormon, Mormons now living have more of a reputation for happy monogamous marriages than those in many other denominations. One might see in that a fulfillment of Isaiah 1:18: "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord; though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Jesus taught, "If you love me, keep my commandmants", which include monogamous marriage that Jesus did not want to see easily abandoned.

    Jesus taught: "Not every one that saith unto Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father Which is in heaven." There are evil Mormons, like Harry Reid, who are doing evil things to America. There are good Mormons, like Glenn Beck, who are doing good things for America (and for Israel).

    I don't know what is motivating Harry Reid to do evil. But I do know what is motivating Glenn Beck to expose Spooky Dude and alert Americans concerning the evil designs of George Soros and his organizations. In the Book of Mormon, in the Book of Ether, is a divinely inspired warning concerning the rise of international secret combinations against freedom. I cannot read that passage without thinking of Glenn Beck, one of the few who are taking that passage seriously.

    You are free to waste the days of your probation bad-mouthing "mormonism", but the coming of Christ is imminent when He will confront those who are supposed to be doing His work on Earth (Luke 12:35-48). I predict, based on the prophecies of Isaiah, that when Christ's church is cleansed and unified in His faith, many of those who are now Mormons will be greatly blessed and guided by the Holy Spirit to accomplish many great and marvelous works. You are wasting your time condemning them. Have you no fear concerning what is taught in Luke 12:35-48?

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/26/2011 10:32:55 AM PDT · 67 of 474
    John McDonnell to Tennessee Nana

    What religious organization, if any, are you a member of? Or will your silence on this point prove mine, that those who attack the faith of other Christians carefully hide their own (except in reciting safe generalities)?

  • The Companionship of the Holy Ghost - Mormon

    07/26/2011 9:30:38 AM PDT · 62 of 474
    John McDonnell to Normandy
    Does a demon testify that Jesus Christ is the Son of God? NO.

    Did a demon persuade me to put my trust in Jesus Christ for my salvation? NO.

    Does a demon influence me to repent of my sins? NO.

    Does a demon inspire me to try and help and serve and uplift my fellow men and women? NO.

    Would a demon influence me to try and live according to the teachings of Jesus? NO.

    I notice that those who are trying to shake your faith do not present their own (except in reciting safe generalizations), which is not unlike Obama criticizing Republican principles of governing without telling us what his principles of governing are (except in reciting safe generalizations designed to stir up animosity against his "enemies").

    Those who continually attack Mormons as enemies of Christ are wasting the days of their probation. All Christians must eventually stand before the judgment seat of Christ regarding their service to Him or lack thereof. Better to do what one knows is pleasing to Him than only hoping that He will reward one for seeking to undermine the faith of others.

    I have never been a member of the Mormon church. Since the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of the gospel, and secret temple rites such as baptism for the dead are not mentioned in the Book of Mormon, I believe that those are man-made ordinances that Christ does not approve of.

    But I don't waste the days of my probation attacking Mormons, especially since I am convinced that the Book of Mormon itself is true.

  • Obama orders Boehner, McConnell, to report to him Saturday morning

    07/22/2011 5:09:21 PM PDT · 72 of 106
    John McDonnell to pabianice
    From The Philosophy of Loyalty (1908) by Josiah Royce (pages 103-106):

    In January, 1642, just before the outbreak of hostilities between King Charles I and the Commons, the King resolved to arrest certain leaders of the opposition party in Parliament. He accordingly sent his herald to the House to demand the surrender of these members into his custody. The Speaker of the House in reply solemnly appealed to the ancient privileges of the House, which gave to that body jurisdiction over its own members, and which forbade their arrest without its consent. The conflict between the privileges of the House and the royal prerogative was herewith definitely initiated. The King resolved by a show of force to assert at once his authority; and, on the day following that upon which the demand sent through his herald had been refused, he went in person, accompanied by soldiers, to the House. Then, having placed his guards at the doors, he entered, went up to the Speaker, and, naming the members whom he desired to arrest, demanded, "Mr. Speaker, do you espy these persons in the House?"

    You will observe that the moment was an unique one in English history. Custom, precedent, convention, obviously were inadequate to define the Speaker's duty in this most critical instance. How, then, could he most admirably express himself? ...

    In fact, as the well-known report, entered in the Journal of the House, states, the Speaker at once fell on his knee before the King and said: "Your Majesty, I am the Speaker of this House, and, being such, I have neither eyes to see nor tongue to speak save as this House shall command; and I humbly beg your Majesty's pardon if this is the only answer that I can give to your Majesty." ...

    The Speaker's words were at once ingenious and obvious. They were in line with the ancient custom of the realm. They were also creative of a new precedent. He had to be inventive to utter them; but once uttered, they seem almost commonplace in their plain truth. The King might be offended at the refusal; but he could not fail to note that, for the moment, he had met with a personal dignity greater than kingship, —the dignity that any loyal man, great or humble, possesses whenever he speaks and acts in the service of his cause.

    (See also Wikipedia article on "William Lenthall".)

  • Why This Evangelical Can't Vote for Mitt Romney

    07/09/2011 7:06:36 AM PDT · 113 of 146
    John McDonnell to Colofornian
    Erickson's book now out is entitled: "Can Mitt Romney Serve Two Masters? The Mormon Church Versus The Office Of The Presidency of the United States of America."

    The Constitution of the United States of America, Article 6, paragraph 3: "The senators and representatives beforementioned, and the members of the state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

    I have already stated that I do think that Romney will be the Republican nominee for President because of his views on "manmade global warming", which I am convinced is a hoax that has an anti-freedom agenda behind it. His being deceived on this point is a valid reason for not supporting his bid for the presidency.

    You are free to publicly oppose Romney because of his religion. You are free to try to amend the Constitution so that a religious test becomes required, so that any person born into a Mormon family, unless they repudiate that religion, are forever banned from holding any office or public trust under the United States. If that is your desire, go for it. I would not recommend it, because many people might view the endeavor as divisive and hate-filled.

  • Why This Evangelical Can't Vote for Mitt Romney

    07/08/2011 1:02:58 PM PDT · 15 of 146
    John McDonnell to delacoert
    Since children are generally brought up in the religious connections or lack thereof of their parents, what a person's religious background is not a satisfactory litmus test for political office. What the person wants to use a political office to accomplish should be the true litmus test. Romney has recently displayed his belief in the idea of man-made global warming, which is a hoax designed to control people and strip them of freedoms endowed by God. That should be enough to kill his chances of ever becoming the Republican nominee for President.

    Stirring up anti-Mormon sentiments does not accomplish anything of value, except for helping the one doing the stirring feel like one is thereby pleasing God for doing so. Such self-aggrandizing efforts waste energy that could be used in supporting constitutional government in ways that welcome anyone of any religious background to join in the cause of saving America from those who are trying to take away our freedoms.

    Harry Reid is an evil man with an evil agenda that many other Mormons strenuously oppose. Glenn Beck is a good man with a good agenda that many other Mormons enthusiastically support. Our constitution does not forbid persons of any specific religion from running for public office or from becoming influential in the media. There are many people of Catholic beliefs serving in public office or having influence in the media. Some of them, like Laura Ingraham, are working to preserve our freedoms. Others, like Nancy Pelosi, are working to take them away.

    My impression of Romney is that he is a decent man who loves freedoms, but who has been deceived by some of the anti-freedom agendas being pushed by progressives. So the reason I don't want Romney to be the Republican nominee for President is the fact that he continues to be deceived by some "progressive" thinking. Romney could have learned a lot from Glenn Beck about progressives. He did not, and now it is too late for Romney. Even if he woke up to the agenda behind the global warming hoax, it would only add to his reputation as a flipflopper.

  • Our Colors So True

    06/14/2011 4:57:07 AM PDT · 1 of 1
    John McDonnell
  • The Coming Storm—Sarah Palin Versus the Establishment…What Kind of Campaign Will She Run?

    05/22/2011 5:13:55 AM PDT · 101 of 170
    John McDonnell to teletech
    There is not one replacement for Reagan, but rather an army of patriotic Davids who are not afraid to stand up and speak out in defense of liberty. These Davids aren't afraid to tell Goliath, 'Don't tread on me.'

    Be a Hero

    an 1897 song, words by Adam Craig, music by Charles H. Gabriel

    On the battlefield of life, be a hero! In its turmoil and its strife, be a hero!
    Show your colors in the fight, and with sword and armor bright,
    Strike out bravely for the right, be a hero!
    Be a hero! Trust in God and never fear! Be a hero! He will help you, He is near;
    On ye soldiers to the fray, hear the great Commander say,
    "We shall surely gain the day," be a hero!

    There are giants in the land, be a hero! In the strength of Jesus stand, be a hero!
    In the darkness and the light, fight like David for the right,
    Stay the tempter in his might, be a hero!
    Be a hero! Trust in God and never fear! Be a hero! He will help you, He is near;
    On ye soldiers to the fray, hear the great Commander say,
    "We shall surely gain the day," be a hero!

    When you see a brother fall, be a hero! Lend a helping hand to all, be a hero!
    In the name of Christ draw near, speak a word of hope and cheer,
    Do what good you can while here, be a hero!
    Be a hero! Trust in God and never fear! Be a hero! He will help you, He is near;
    On ye soldiers to the fray, hear the great Commander say,
    "We shall surely gain the day," be a hero!

  • Egyptians Turning on Each Other (EGYPT LIVE THREAD # 2)

    02/05/2011 5:37:54 PM PST · 1,481 of 1,985
    John McDonnell to SE Mom
    The way you titled this thread, "Egyptians Turning on Each Other", reminds me of Isaiah chapter 19, verse 2: "And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour..."

    This is usually interpreted to have been fulfilled many centuries ago. There are portions of Isaiah chapter 19 that have been fulfilled in modern times, such as verses 16-17 being fulfilled during the Six Day War of 1967. There are also portions of Isaiah chapter 19 that have yet to be fulfilled, such as verses 23-25.

  • Obama: Time For Fighting Health-Care Overhaul Has Passed

    01/28/2011 4:22:23 PM PST · 45 of 64
    John McDonnell to Innovative
    Sorry, Mr. Obama, but your declaration that "the time for fighting health-care overhaul has passed" has failed to take into consideration Isaiah 28:18:

    "And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it."

    Obamacare is a covenant with death via public funding for killing babies and calling for bureaucratic decisions on the rationing of medical procedures (death panels). That covenant shall not stand. Some of those who voted for it have already been trodden down in the 2010 elections. The House of Representatives has already voted to repeal it. A majority of the States have declared themselves opposed to Obamacare. An overflowing scourge against Obamacare is building, not diminishing.

    "Ye scornful men that rule this people," prepare to watch your government takeover of medical care trodden down to your everlasting shame.

  • The Mystery of the Rapture

    11/14/2010 3:35:16 PM PST · 107 of 107
    John McDonnell to lawsone
    Since the word “Rapture” is not found in the Scriptures, why is it shown the reverence as if it was?

    It is shown reverence only by the spiritually lazy, for whom it supplies an excuse for their spiritual laziness.

    At the end of Christ's Sermon on the Mount is His declaration that "whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock." Although those who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture theory are aware of the Sermon on the Mount, they sit around waiting to raptured while other Christians do the hard work of upholding Christian values at at time when those values are under assault.

    Like drunken people lovingly patting their bottles, pre-tribbers lovingly recite the scriptural passages they they have learned to twist into excuses for their spiritual laziness. Like lazy people using their spending money on lottery tickets so they can escape having to work, pre-tribbers are using their religious imaginations to dream of a great escape from the tribulations that others will have to endure.

    As Christ taught: "And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: and the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon thet house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."

  • The Mystery of the Rapture

    11/12/2010 5:13:10 PM PST · 100 of 107
    John McDonnell to Iscool
    The context is those who do not make the Rapture because of their rejection of the Gospel and who then go on into the Tribulation...God will send them strong delusion so that they will never accept Jesus, but be damned...They had their chance...

    This is your interpretation that you want to force upon the scripture. God's wisdom is so far superior to ours, that we have this tendency to force our narrow visions upon fragmented revelations of His purposes.

    Satan tempts. God tests. Satan tempts via delusions. God tests via delusions. Satan wants everyone brought into bondage through his delusions. The delusions that God allows do not necessarily condemn to bondage because He always keeps open a way of escape for those who repent of the attitudes that prompted the delusions to be a test.

    Therefore, for you to say that God purposely deludes people so that they can be damned by Him cannot be pleasing to Him: "Seek ye the Lord while He may be found, call ye upon Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and He will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:6-9).

    I believe that the arrogant tone of your support for the deception known as the pre-tribulation rapture theory is displeasing to God. I pray that you will humble yourself before God and confess that you don't know whereof you speak. Otherwise, the delusion you have fallen for could eventually prompt you and others to take the mark of the beast, since you don't believe that the Antichrist can arise to have a mark to take prior to your falsely supposed pre-tribulation rapture.

    Pre-tribulation rapture theory is a delusion that Satan promotes to deceive Christians. God is using that same delusion to test His people, to see whether or not they are open to His holy purposes, which have never included a pre-tribulation rapture.

  • The Mystery of the Rapture

    11/12/2010 11:13:24 AM PST · 91 of 107
    John McDonnell to Iscool
    IF you refused the grace of God before the tribulation starts, God will will send you strong delusion so that you will not accept Him after the Tribulation starts...And you will be damned...Take it or leave it...

    You take 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 to mean that everyone living during the great tribulation "received not the love of the truth that they might be saved". It does not teach that, nor are you in a position to judge who should be damned.

  • The Mystery of the Rapture

    11/12/2010 9:15:01 AM PST · 82 of 107
    John McDonnell to Iscool
    If you live to the Tribulation, you will have no chance to accept Jesus Christ as your savior after it starts...

    Revelation 7:13-14: "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, "What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?" And I said unto him, "Sir, thou knowest." And he said to me, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

    I choose to believe what the scripture teaches and not your emphatic declaration that "If you live to the Tribulation, you will have no chance to accept Jesus Christ as your savior after it starts."

    "The fact is; those saints in Rev. 13:7 are not part of the church...The church is in heaven at Rev. 13."

    If they are not a part of the church, why does the scripture call them saints? Are your interpretations of higher authority than the word of God? The fact is that since Revelation 13:7 refutes your pre-tribulation theories, you reject what it teaches.

    You claim the saints will be hidden away safely but the scripture tells us that the anti-Christ makes war with them and overcomes them...

    I did not claim that the saints would be hidden away. I stated that the saints would gather into places of safety, as is taught in Isaiah 4:2-6, Isaiah 33:14-24, and other scriptures. The Antichrist will overcome Christian influence in the areas he controls. But he shall have no power over the saints in areas where they gather for safety. For Christ shall be in the midst of His people. In His presence they shall grow spiritually until they are ready to be raptured into His presence with the resurrected dead in Christ, when the saints shall descend with Him, when He is to reign on Earth for a thousand years!

  • The Mystery of the Rapture

    11/11/2010 4:57:50 PM PST · 36 of 107
    John McDonnell to wmfights
    Another reason for believing the Rapture is likely to occur near the beginning of the Tribulation is because 2 Thessalonians 2 says that the Antichrist cannot be revealed until a "restrainer" is "taken out of the way" (2 Thessalonians 2:6-7). I believe that restrainer is the Holy Spirit working through the Church. Thus, when the Church is removed, the Antichrist will be unleashed, and the Tribulation will begin.

    One of the problems with this line of thinking is that it if it is wrong, it is disasterously wrong. That is, if someone believes that the Antichrist cannot be unleashed until the Church is removed, it could lead to someone taking the mark of the beast because one believes that the beast could not exist before the church is removed. But taking the mark leads to drinking "the wrath of God" (Revelation 14:9-10).

    That the tribulation will fall upon Christians is predicted in Revelation 13:7: "And it was given unto him [the beast] to make war with the saints, and to overcome them..." Therefore, the saints will gather into areas of safety where they can survive the tribulation and prepare for the return of Christ, Who will confront those supposed to be doing His work on Earth, Who will be in the midst of His people, and Who will receive them into the cloud after the resurrection of the Dead in Him. The rapture is at the end of great tribulations, prior to the destruction of the wicked.

    Since the resurrection of the dead in Christ must occur prior to the rapture of living saints, until we see the dead in Christ resurrected, the rapture cannot occur.

    Your arguments for a pre-tribulation rapture are wishful thinking with no sound scriptural basis. It is a doctrine for the spiritually lazy who are more concerned about personal salvation than serving the holy purposes of God out of loyalty to that salvation. When tribulations increase, Christians will be courageously fulfilling God's holy purposes instead of selfishly doing nothing because Christ has done all that is necessary for their salvation. But if the joy of personal salvation does not lead to manifesting the fruits of the Spirit though noble actions striving to advance God's holy purposes, it is a selfish joy, and a dangerous one. "Hey, don't worry about taking this mark, because the beast cannot exist prior to our rapture! Therefore, this mark, which will give us earthly benefits, cannot be the mark of the beast!"

  • Is Glenn Beck Saved? (A Short Review of Mormonism)

    09/18/2010 5:06:47 AM PDT · 131 of 131
    John McDonnell to eagles
    Let me tackle one thing I saw: Jesus is satan’s brother. That is ONLY phrased that way because we believe we are all spiritual brothers and sisters.

    I'm also a Latter Day Saint, though of the Community of Christ variety. We don't speak the phrase "Jesus is Satan's brother", although we are familiar with the scriptural statements upon which that idea is based. Here are two of those statements, as printed in our canon of scripture:

    from Community of Christ Doctrine and Covenants 76:3i-m (revealed in 1832):

    And this we saw also, and bear record, that an angel of God, who was in authority in the presence of God, who rebelled against the only begotten Son; whom the Father loved, and who was in the bosom of the Father; and was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son, and was called Perdition; for the heavens wept over him; he was Lucifer, a son of the morning. And we beheld, and lo, he is fallen! is fallen! even a son of the morning. And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old serpent, even the Devil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our God and his Christ; wherefore he maketh war with the saints of God, and encompasses them them round about. And we saw a vision of the sufferings of those with whom he made war and overcame ...

    from Community of Christ Inspired Version, Genesis 3:1-5:

    And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying, That Satan whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning; and he came before me, saying, Behold I, send me, I will be thy Son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore, give me thine honor. But behold, my beloved Son, which was my beloved and chosen from the beginning, said unto me: Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever. Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him; and also that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten I caused that he should be cast down; and he became Satan. Yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive, and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

    The words in bold type demonstrate that Jesus and Satan were never on an equal standing before God the Father. The statement "Jesus is Satan's brother" is only true in a most general sense, as you pointed out: "we are all spiritual brothers and sisters". The statement "Jesus is Satan's brother" is not a direct quote from any Latter Day Saint scripture. Those who hate everything about the Latter Day Saint movement love to quote that statement as being scriptural, when it is not.

  • Michael Moore: If the 'Mosque' Isn't Built, This Is No Longer America (Says build ON GROUND ZERO!)

    09/11/2010 2:18:22 PM PDT · 56 of 76
    John McDonnell to 2ndDivisionVet
    Qur'an 9:107 states:

    "And there are those who put up a mosque by way of mischief and infidelity - to disunite the Believers - and in preparation for one who warred against God and His Apostle aforetime. They will indeed swear that their intention is nothing but good; but God doth declare that they are certainly liars." [Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation]

    In a footnote, Abdullah Yusuf Ali states:

    "... a fourth class of insidious evil-doers is now mentioned, whose type is illustrated in the story of Qubaa 'Mosque of mischief' (dhirar). Qubaa is a suburb of Medina, about three miles to the south-east. When the Holy Prophet arrived at Medina for Hijrat, he rested four days in Qubaa before entering the town of Medina. Here was built the first mosque, the 'Mosque of Piety' (Taqwa), or the mosque of the power of Islam (Quwat-ul-Islam), to which he frequently came during his subsequent stay in Medina. Taking advantage of these sacred associations, some Hypocrits of the Tribe of Bani Ganam built an opposition mosque in Qubaa, pretending to advance Islam. In reality they were in league with a notorious enemy of Islam, one Abu Amir, who had fought against Islam at Uhud and who was now, after the battle of Hunain (A.H. 9), in Syria; his confederates wanted a mosque for him to come to, but it would only be a source of mischief and division, and the scheme was disapproved."

    Isn't the Ground Zero Mosque a "Mosque of mischief"?