Posts by Pantagruel

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  • Milosevic trial nears fourth year

    10/22/2005 6:51:13 AM PDT · 40 of 45
    Pantagruel to mark502inf

    Gligorov felt threatened by some Serb ultranationalist's statements, not Milosevic as he was/is no nationalist (let alone ultranationalist). I'll give you an example:In the late 90's, the EU offered 5.5 bln $ and special staus in the EU if the leaders of YU Republics agreed to preserve Yugoslavia in any form. Tudjman's response was that he couldn't abandon -- not even for billions and billions of dollars-- the "thousand year's long dream" of the renewal of Croatian State that "now keeps feeding the entire Croatian people". Milosevic's response was : "as I repeatedly stated in the past, I support the idea of strong federation or modern federation -- or nothing".

  • Milosevic shows video of British inspector's 'involvement' (with KLA)

    10/02/2005 8:58:02 PM PDT · 26 of 49
    Pantagruel to Hoplite

    Yes, I am aware of Bonomy's and Robinson's response.

    However, if Milosevic was putting words in Paddy's mouth, why wouldn't they (ICTY or OHR) simply clean up and enhance the audio from the footage in question or publish a true transript of it, so we can decide who's full of it?

    Audio aside, I would agree with Ma Bell that the video alone of Paddy getting all chummy-chummy with the KLA is pretty damaging by itself. So, I stand by my original comment Re: damage control.




  • Milosevic shows video of British inspector's 'involvement' (with KLA)

    10/02/2005 9:17:51 AM PDT · 22 of 49
    Pantagruel to ma bell

    I only have this link:
    http://hague.bard.edu/video.html -- "Paddy video" can be found in Sept 29th session.

    I think there are some links to the "full" Srebrenica video on the Net, but I haven't had time to search / watch.

  • Milosevic shows video of British inspector's 'involvement' (with KLA)

    10/02/2005 8:10:06 AM PDT · 19 of 49
    Pantagruel to ma bell

    No, I'm not a clone of Hoplite and yes, I do need a towel to wipe my mouth occasionally.

    I have no way of knowing whether the video is authentic and that it is without question exactly what it looks like. Not sure I understand your point.

  • Milosevic shows video of British inspector's 'involvement' (with KLA)

    10/02/2005 8:02:33 AM PDT · 18 of 49
    Pantagruel to Hoplite

    >>So tell me where you got it that Ashdown was promising the Albanians better weapons?<<

    From Milosevic's remarks following the video.

  • Milosevic shows video of British inspector's 'involvement' (with KLA)

    10/01/2005 3:00:00 PM PDT · 15 of 49
    Pantagruel to Hoplite

    >>In short, there's no damage to control, and Slobo just wasting time.<<

    Tell me something: do you really think that Paddy's comments [that it was a scandal for the International community that they (Albanians) had such poor quality weapons, and his promise that he will do everything he can for them to receive proper weapons] were OK and not damaging?

    Whether his "mission" was covered by an agreement or not has absolutely nothing to do with his comments on the video.

  • Milosevic shows video of British inspector's 'involvement' (with KLA)

    10/01/2005 8:05:53 AM PDT · 12 of 49
    Pantagruel to Hoplite; joan

    The original aricle (from Joan's post) says:

    ...>>In the video, Paddy Ashdown advises a man dressed in KLA uniform...<<

    While OHR talks about some freaking "villagers". So is it "villagers" or KLA-uniformed man?

    Also, OHR claims that ..."During this trip they passed a small group of KLA soldiers, where part of the video aired yesterday was probably shot."... PROBABLY???



    This OHR article seems to be a pretty lame damage control attempt.

  • VOJISLAV SESELJ AND GEN. DELIC RE-EXAMINED (Seselj & Milosevic at Former Yugoslavia Hague trial)

    09/23/2005 5:11:34 PM PDT · 11 of 11
    Pantagruel to Hoplite

    RFO, clowns!...Sad clowns wearing their red clown oufits and wigs, acting silly and babbling nonsense, with trained dogs, baboons and all. The "trial of the Century" turns out to be a circus of the Century.

    They are miserably failing but the freak show must go on. The illusion of justice must be maintained for the dumbed down masses.

  • Years after Milosevic, Serbia's illusions persist

    09/02/2005 5:46:48 PM PDT · 55 of 65
    Pantagruel to mark502inf; Jane_N; bob808

    >>Not my point, panta. It was Milosevic coming to power and the rise of Serb nationalism that precipitated the break, regardless of who filled which block in the organizational charts of the old Yugoslavia.<<

    Mark, all I can say to you is that you shouldn't believe everything you see and hear on TV. The mainstream media has been peddling this BS claim for a very long time, without a shred of evidence. But if you are willing to dig a little deeper, you can find a fair amount of information that sheds a totally different light on this subject (supported by FACTS, not some pseudo - rationalistic analyses and unsubstantiated musings that the mustream media feeds us). As Jane pointed out, for example, the Croats were working very hard to destroy Yugoslavia long before SM's time, Kosovo Albanians too. Search the Net and you will find. It's all there at your fingertips, all you need is a little time and effort. (I'll even make it easier for you: just google avramov, rolovic and prepare to be surprised)

  • Years after Milosevic, Serbia's illusions persist

    09/02/2005 10:16:16 AM PDT · 48 of 65
    Pantagruel to bob808

    Looks like we're beating a dead horse Bob, eh?

  • Years after Milosevic, Serbia's illusions persist

    09/02/2005 10:13:56 AM PDT · 47 of 65
    Pantagruel to mark502inf

    Aw come on Mark...have you looked at the "ethnic makeup" of the political and military elite or did you somehow miss that?

    Anyway, I feel like I'm talking to a wall here. Believe what you want man, I can't help you.

    Later



  • Years after Milosevic, Serbia's illusions persist

    09/02/2005 9:53:19 AM PDT · 44 of 65
    Pantagruel to kosta50

    He most certainly was, Kosta. I assumed that we all know that, but just in case:

    1) J. B. TITO (Croat),
    2) E. KARDELJ (Slovene), and
    3) V. BAKARIC (Croat),

    with their disciples in the post-Tito era

    1) S. DOLANC (Slovene),
    2) J. VRHOVEC (Croat), and
    3) B. MIKULIC (Croat from Bosnia and Herzegovina)


    Still, the mindless litany about "Serb dominated" Yugoslavia goes on and on and on...Like a freaking broken record fer Chrissake

  • Years after Milosevic, Serbia's illusions persist

    09/02/2005 5:10:39 AM PDT · 38 of 65
    Pantagruel to mark502inf

    The stuff you are quoting is again based on incorrect information. Former YU was anything but Serb dominated.






    POLITICAL LEADERSHIP OF YUGOSLAVIA (1980-1991)




    YUGOSLAV PRIME MINISTERS:


    V. Djuranovic (MONTENEGRIN)
    M. Planinc (CROAT)
    B. Mikulic (CROAT FROM BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA)
    A. Markovic (CROAT)





    YUGOSLAV FOREIGN MINISTERS:

    J. Vrhovec (CROAT)
    L. Mojsov (MACEDONIAN)
    R. Dizdarevic (BOSNIAN MUSLIM)
    B. Loncar (CROAT)




    PRESIDENTS OF FEDERAL PRESIDENCY:


    L. Kolisevski (MACEDONIAN)
    S. Krajger (SLOVENE)
    P. Stambolic (SERB)
    F. Hodza (ALBANIAN)
    S. Dolanc (SLOVENE)
    V. Zarkovic (MONTENEGRIN
    L. Mojsov (MACEDONIAN)
    R. Dizdarevic (BOSNIAN MUSLIM)
    S. Suvar (CROAT)
    J. Drnovsek (SLOVENE)
    B. Jovic (SERB)
    S. Mesic (CROAT)




    THE YUGOSLAV PEOPLE'S ARMY'S LEADERSHIP IN JUNE 1991
    (The Year of Disintegration)


    FEDERAL DEFENSE MINISTER
    general V. Kadijevic (CROAT-SERB)

    FEDERAL DEPUTY DEFENSE MINISTER
    admiral S. Brovet (SLOVENE)

    CHIEF OF THE GENERAL STAFF
    general B. Adzic (SERB)

    COMMANDER OF THE FIRST
    MILITARY AREA (SERBIA)
    general A. Spirkovski (MACEDONIAN)

    COMMANDER OF THE FIFTH MILITARY
    AREA (CROATIA AND SLOVENIA)
    general K. Kolsek (SLOVENE)

    COMMANDER OF THE THIRD MILITARY
    AREA (BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA)
    general A. Luketic (CROAT)

    COMMANDER OF THE NAVY
    admiral Z. Letica (CROAT)

    COMMANDER OF THE MARITIME AREA
    admiral P. Grubisic (CROAT)

    COMMANDER OF THE YUGOSLAV AIR FORCE
    general A. Tus (CROAT)






    YUGOSLAVIA'S AMBASSADORS IN SELECTED COUNTRIES (JUNE 1991)


    UNITES STATES OF AMERICA:
    Dz. Mujezinovic (BOSNIAN MUSLIM)

    SOVIET UNION:
    A. Runjic (CROAT)

    FRANCE:
    B. Gagro (CROAT)

    UNITED KINGDOM:
    S. Rikanovic (SERB)

    PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA:
    Z. Dragan (SLOVENE)

    UNITED NATIONS (New York):
    D. Silovic (CROAT)

    UNITED NATIONS (Geneva):
    N. Calovski (MACEDONIAN)

    AUSTRIA:
    I. Brnelic (CROAT)

    VATICAN:
    I. Mastruko (CROAT)

    SPAIN:
    F. Dizdarevic (BOSNIAN MUSLIM)

    HUNGARY:
    R. Sova (HUNGARIAN)

    EGYPT:
    I. Ivekovic (CROAT)

    TURKEY:
    T. Petrovski (MACEDONIAN)

    IRAN:
    T. Trajkovski (MACEDONIAN)

    ARGENTINA:
    R. Mazuran (CROAT)

    INDONESIA:
    V. Koprivnjak (CROAT)
    ________________________________________________________

  • Years after Milosevic, Serbia's illusions persist

    09/01/2005 5:19:53 AM PDT · 23 of 65
    Pantagruel to mark502inf

    Fact?
    >>The Serb Republic issued a report taking responsibility<<

    Not really, according to Mr. Bukejlovic's (Prime Minister of the Republika Srpska) interview of July 31, 2005
    http://www.novosti.co.yu/vest.php?vest=43178&rubrika=Politika



    Fact?
    ...>>Serbs are living in a state of denial. As further evidenced by your post.<<

    No. This is your opinion only, absolutely no evidence of "living in a state of denial" in my post. Just good old facts.






  • Years after Milosevic, Serbia's illusions persist

    08/31/2005 6:34:19 PM PDT · 9 of 65
    Pantagruel to mark502inf

    This is a typical piece of propaganda BS, loaded with fabrications and author's opinions / interpretations. No factual information.




    Fiction:
    >>The Serbian mistake of 1918, when the victorious kingdom gambled on [establishing] Yugoslavia, rather than consolidating a compact state of Serbia, continues to haunt Belgrade.<<

    Fact:
    November 1918
    "A National Council of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs met in Zagreb and called for the unification of all the South Slavs in the Habsburg lands. The Croatian Sabor merged with this National Council. Fearful of Italy, the National Council then pledged allegiance to Serbia. In this manner a unified Yugoslav state came into existence before the formal peace talks began."



    Fiction:
    >>Kosovo was the launching pad for the crazed nationalism engineered by Milosevic<<

    Fact:
    Gazimestan - June 28, 1989 -- Excerpts from SM's speech:

    ..." Yugoslavia is a multinational community and it can survive only under the conditions of full equality for all nations that live in it.

    The crisis that hit Yugoslavia has brought about national divisions, but also social, cultural, religious and many other less important ones. Among all these divisions, nationalist ones have shown themselves to be the most dramatic. Resolving them will make it easier to remove other divisions and mitigate the consequences they have created.

    For as long as multinational communities have existed, their weak point has always been the relations between different nations. The threat is that the question of one nation being endangered by the others can be posed one day -- and this can then start a wave of suspicions, accusations, and intolerance, a wave that invariably grows and is difficult to stop. This threat has been hanging like a sword over our heads all the time. Internal and external enemies of multi-national communities are aware of this and therefore they organize their activity against multinational societies mostly by fomenting national conflicts."...

    So this is how the crazed nationalst Serb leader ignited the fuse, eh? LOL



    Fiction:
    >>Serbia, ever quick to denounce ethnic Albanian "terrorism" in Kosovo, has scarcely begun to confront the crimes it committed on a vast scale in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo in the 1990s.

    A video of Serbs killing Muslims at Srebrenica, shown in June, provoked a shock here. That was salutary. It was also a terrible indictment of the degree of Serbian ignorance ...<<

    Fact:
    The "video" shows execution of 6 men. Not sure what exactly was it supposed to prove, but it most certainly doesn't prove the alleged massacre of thousands of civilians in Srebrenica.


    Fiction:
    >>One of Serbia's many fictions is that the Yugoslav Army never fought in Bosnia and the campaign there had nothing to do with Belgrade. Nonsense, of course, but Serbia remains ambivalent about reality.<<

    Fact:
    The author's confusion (or his intent to confuse and mislead semi-informed readers) is again obvious. JNA (Yugoslav Army) pulled out from Bosnia when the "International Community" recognized B&H as a state.

  • The Real Story Behind Srebrenica

    08/04/2005 3:48:16 PM PDT · 90 of 91
    Pantagruel to johnnyBbad

    Serb-dominated? LOL! Former Yugoslavia was ANYTHING BUT Serb-dominated. Educate yourself: http://www.balkan-archive.org.yu/kosta/Geopolitics/Risto.Mostarski/Serb_dominated_YU.text

  • The Real Story Behind Srebrenica

    07/16/2005 12:01:48 PM PDT · 34 of 91
    Pantagruel to johnnyBbad

    I suggest you read a few pages from Izetbegovic's "Islamic Declaration" and decide if that's radical enough for you.

  • "Srebrenica - Beyond a Reasonable Doubt"

    06/14/2005 5:23:10 PM PDT · 26 of 27
    Pantagruel

    Indisputable fact, beyond reasonable doubt, I kid you not, Believe you me, eh?

    I seem to remember some similar "facts" and "evidence" and "reports" and "testimonies" about Racak, Markale, "breadline massacre", Trepca Stadium, Operation Horseshoe, Rajmonda, freezer trucks, mass rape, babies shot with 3 bullets and "screaming unbelievably loud" and a whole bunch more.
    But it works, right? Same as the "Belgian babies" or "incubator babies".

    Fool Me Once Shame On You; Fool Me Twice Shame On Me