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Posts by roamer_1

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  • Millennial Series: Part 9: Amillennial Eschatology

    08/21/2014 3:16:22 AM PDT · 56 of 61
    roamer_1 to one Lord one faith one baptism; boatbums; Iscool; wmfights; Lee N. Field; CynicalBear; ...
    ok, v24 says I will take from the nations and give you your own land. Israel, right? 1948, right? well, think about it. does it says it will take “some” of Israel and give them their own land? NO! It says “you”, meaning ALL ISRAEL. well, did all Jews move to Israel in 1948? NO! my friend B. Rosenthal, lives in NJ. I can assure you he is as Jewish as Jewish gets, is he not part of Israel? Didn’t God keep his promise to B. Rosenthal? next, v25 I will sprinkle clean water on you and clean you from all uncleannesses. WOW, when did that happen in 1948? this verse clearly is talking about baptism and the remission of sins. 99% of the people living in what is called Israel today deny Jesus Christ as the Son of God and have not had their sins forgiven.

    Keep watching. It is happening before your very eyes. Getting to this part really soon:

    Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
    Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
    Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
    Zec 12:4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
    Zec 12:5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
    Zec 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
    Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
    Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
    Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
    Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
    Zec 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
    Zec 12:12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
    Zec 12:13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
    Zec 12:14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

    the dispensational fog won’t be lifted until one realizes that the Bible is a spiritual book all about one person, Jesus Christ and his mission to leave glory behind, become man, live a sinless perfect life, thus qualifying Himself to be the perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world and reconcile the elect to the Father in His Body by the power of the Holy Spirit. the Bible is not about who controls a plot of land in the Middle East. dispensationalists can’t tell types and shadows from the reality they portray.

    It is all that - But there is much more. Romanists will be astounded to find that every_single_word ever uttered by YHWH will certainly come to pass - Every jot and tittle. Every promise to Israel must be, NECESSARILY, lest YHWH be made a liar. It is as intrinsic and sure as the words uttered to bring forth all of creation.

  • Millennial Series: Part 9: Amillennial Eschatology

    08/21/2014 2:36:02 AM PDT · 55 of 61
    roamer_1 to one Lord one faith one baptism; boatbums; CynicalBear; wmfights; Lee N. Field; redleghunter
    if one doesn’t understand what “Israel” is in the Scriptures, everything goes off the rails from there.

    Boy, do you ever got that one right. I won't tear up your whole post, but mainly focus upon this:

    one example, Jeremiah 32:38-40 states Israel shall be his people and He will make an everlasting covenant with them. v.41 says he will plant them in this land.
    is this future or has it been fulfilled? Dispensationalists say its future, “rome” or more properly the historical Christian faith, says Jesus has fulfilled this prophecy.

    Context, context, context. This passage alone contains almost everything needed to answer your questions.

    It is not speaking only to Israel corporately, but specifically to the House of Israel AND the House of Judah. The everlasting covenant is made with BOTH nations... BOTH 'wives'. The 'church', as you define it, cannot be BOTH. In fact, it MUST BE what it says it is.

    Secondly, it speaks to the physical LAND - Not Jerusalem alone, but rather to ALL of the land, ALL of the cities... Thus it cannot be speaking of New Jerusalem. Contracts, buying and selling... Read on in 33 and it becomes utterly unmistakable.

    The covenant is made with the two Houses. The two nations. The gentiles are grafted into this covenant. Do not boast against the branches.

    The physical land will be restored (and that has been happening since 1948). And 33 shows a physical prosperity.

    The people, for whom YHWH has wished evil, will be blessed, and YHWH will wish them good, and will deliver on EVERY promise he has ever given them.

    This CANNOT be describing the Roman church. The Roman church has no right to the land. No claim in the land.

    Israel IS the House of Judah and the House of Israel, with the gentiles grafted in. No doubt that began at the cross, but it is not done yet. 1948 (to the very day) and 1967 (to the very day), and all that has happened since, put Rome and 'historical Christian faith' to shame. Y'all should have seen it coming, not to mention that y'all should see it happening right before your very eyes.

    Jer 32:32 Because of all the evil of the children of Israel and of the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke me to anger, they, their kings, their princes, their priests, and their prophets, and the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
    Jer 32:33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.
    Jer 32:34 But they set their abominations in the house, which is called by my name, to defile it.
    Jer 32:35 And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
    Jer 32:36 And now therefore thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, concerning this city, whereof ye say, It shall be delivered into the hand of the king of Babylon by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence;
    Jer 32:37 Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely:
    Jer 32:38 And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
    Jer 32:39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
    Jer 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
    Jer 32:41 Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul.
    Jer 32:42 For thus saith the LORD; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.
    Jer 32:43 And fields shall be bought in this land, whereof ye say, It is desolate without man or beast; it is given into the hand of the Chaldeans.
    Jer 32:44 Men shall buy fields for money, and subscribe evidences, and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley, and in the cities of the south: for I will cause their captivity to return, saith the LORD.

    (e-Sword:KJV}
  • The Ancient Mass in the “House Churches” was not as Informal as Many Think

    08/20/2014 2:23:44 PM PDT · 59 of 70
    roamer_1 to markomalley

    It drives me crazy that y’all inevitably and almost always lean upon psuedepigrapha. The Didiscalia purports to be written authoritatively by the apostles themselves (similar in kind to the Didache), but was later found to be a mid second century forgery with no pedigree whatsoever.

    Using such a thing as a defense promoting church order (and especially east-facing worship, which is expressly called an abomination) is highly dubious, to say the least. I find this reliance upon texts with a proven malodorous provenance to be an astonishment. *No one* should be using this as a guide to anything.

  • A Blot On The Jewish People

    08/19/2014 7:18:14 PM PDT · 134 of 148
    roamer_1 to daniel1212

    Thx for the links, btw... the ‘Defense of Daniel’ was particularly interesting

  • A Blot On The Jewish People

    08/19/2014 6:49:11 PM PDT · 130 of 148
    roamer_1 to daniel1212; idov; redleghunter; Godzilla; Greetings_Puny_Humans
    Sigh.

    Alas, I have arrived again too late.

    It seems our opponent has assumed room temperature.

    He's pinin' for the fiords... He done been moon-beamed.... Rode the lightnin'...

  • A Blot On The Jewish People

    08/19/2014 4:20:25 PM PDT · 107 of 148
    roamer_1 to idov
    We’re talking of houses of prayer. There were none because they did not need them.

    Oh, well, those 'houses of prayer' look exactly like synagogues and the most ancient are not in Israel. Which would make sense - When an Hebrew community is too far away to get to the Temple, the synagogue sufficed. And what of those close by? a mere two days walk from Jerusalem... Still within Israel... Do you think they gathered at Jerusalem every Shabbat?

    Who’s talking about Isaiah?

    I was... in the same breath with Daniel... The oldest extant complete Hebrew documents on the planet are those two books. Centuries before the birth of Yeshua, BOTH predict him. Daniel by exact date, and Isaiah by name. The proof is in the prophecy.

    Daniel is a fake book. He got in there because of internal politics. There were two rival groups in Israel and they fought a six year civil war costing 50,000 lives.

    Source plz.

  • A Blot On The Jewish People

    08/19/2014 3:29:56 PM PDT · 74 of 148
    roamer_1 to idov
    There were no synagogues in Israel not until after the destruction of the Temple.

    Off the cuff, Masada and Herodium synagogues predate the fall of Jerusalem. Might I suggest 'Ancient Synagogues: Historical Analysis and Archaeological Discovery' which might broaden your scope... Notwithstanding that the Jews themselves hearken the origin of the synagogue to the Babylonian exile...

    Porphyry, a Greek philosopher, using textual analysis exposed Daniel as bogus. That finding has stood the test of time.

    The pagan Porphyry, in his textual analysis, did not have in his possession an extant copy of Danial predating his theory - We do... And that still does not explain away the great prophet, Isaiah.

    There is a litmus test on the Hebrew side as well. Angels do not give their names. He names two. The writer is a con artist.

    Yet there he is, among the prophets...

  • A Blot On The Jewish People

    08/19/2014 3:04:00 PM PDT · 63 of 148
    roamer_1 to idov
    At that time there were two main language groups in Israel, one spoke Hebrew, the Jews, and one spoke Greek, mainly the non-Jews.

    While I am one who believes that Jews primarily spoke Hebrew in the first century (and have argued it endlessly hereon), it is simply specious to suggest that Aramaic was not also known and understood. The two are sister languages, readily interchangeable. It would seem more probable that your average Jew couldn't understand/speak Greek rather than Aramaic. And borrowed words (back and forth) then and today, prove it out. Both were living languages, side by side, in close proximity.

    In the Hebrew language this god has only be known as Yeshu, which is a foreign name, transliterated. It has no connection to any Hebrew name. The god has never been called anything but Yeshu. The same is probably true in India.

    That you will have to source, as every Jew I know, Messianic or not, knows him as Yeshua. Every early text I know of calls him either Yeshua or Jesus.

    Aramaic? They spoke that in Syria to the north.

    And Arabia to the west, and Egypt to the south. To suggest that Aramaic was afar off is ludicrous.

  • A Blot On The Jewish People

    08/19/2014 2:23:51 PM PDT · 46 of 148
    roamer_1 to idov
    Today is a different world and even after the Torah was translated, the rest of the Tanakh as we call it was done by superior translators.

    Oh, I entirely agree - compared to the exactitude with which the Torah was translated, and the whole of Tanakh, the treatment of the Septuagint (and the later New Testament) was egregious.

    But, a few points:

    Firstly, one cannot blithely take the whole of the Septuagint as a single body of work. It was created in stages. I am of the mind that the origination of the Septuagint, which was only Torah (the Pentateuch) was skillfully done - perhaps not with the precision of Temple scribes, as one must allow for the language barrier, but I think it was an honest effort... It is in the latter revisions that one might find question.

    Secondly, your premise wholly ignores the politics of the time - Judaism was not pristine, and in a vacuum. The Hellenists, present even in Jerusalem, are a significant liberalization of Judaism - I think the Alexandrian codex, the Septuagint, was an honest attempt to teach Hellenistic Jews that which they purported to believe, Hebrew having been lost to them. It is the latter revisions which show that attempt being hijacked and Hellenized. Your opinion lacks for study into the construction of the Septuagint.

    And the synagogues were another point of pressure - While Torah was pristine (IMO) across the board, what Torah supposedly said was widely disparate, and can be compared to Congregational Protestantism in our day (the basics were right, but not agreeing in complexity), and was just as highly factional, especially the further one got from the Temple... Temple Judaism was quickly losing ground to what later became Rabbinical Judaism.

    It is for all these reasons that Protestant Christianity rejected the scriptures their fathers used and went directly to the source (as much as was possible).

    But what will inevitably stand in your way (with regard to Messiah) will be the books of Daniel and Isaiah, both of which are present in the Dead Sea Scrolls, both of which are in the (proto)Masoretic tradition, and both of which, as extant-in-situ predate Yeshua by hundreds of years. Their accuracy cannot be ignored.

    These guys were no different from a woman who eats ham sandwiches on Yom Kippur bringing out a kosher cookbook. No one who keeps kosher is going to touch it.

    I get it - I can loosely be identified as a Messianic Christian. I try to keep Torah and kosher (Torah, not Rabbinical). But your premise assumes that any and every scribe not Temple ordained is incapable of an honest and literal translation. While I agree with you that bias and inclusions have crept in, that does not mean the truth is not there. As an example, IMO, for the lion's share, the KJV can be used with abandon - the milk of the message, and most of the meat, is there. It is only when one ventures in with specificity to very deep things that one must cross-check other variants to winnow out a meaning.

    They even screwed up the first word. It does not say “in the beginning.” There is no suggestion of creation out of nothing. It says “at the beginning of....” and goes on to describe a process. It does not rule out pre-existing universes or other universes.

    Yes, it most certainly does say 'in the beginning'. To say otherwise would offend the prophets and the Holy Days, and primarily, Shabbat.

  • A Blot On The Jewish People

    08/19/2014 1:16:44 PM PDT · 31 of 148
    roamer_1 to idov; daniel1212
    I’m not looking for an argument on religion but I am simply following a 2,000-year-old Jewish tradition regarding the origins of Christianity. Only in Israel and India does Jesus go by a Hindi name, Yeshu, which in Egypt was applied to Krishna.

    This is patent nonsense. Yahshua/Yeshua/Y'Shua is the familiar form or contraction of Yehoshua/Joshua (YHWH is our salvation). Yeshua, in Hebrew, literally means 'Salvation'. It means exactly the same thing in Aramiac, and the earliest Aramaic texts (contemporary with the earliest complete Greek, and predating your Talmudic sources) use 'Yeshua' for 'Jesus'. Yeshu/Yaesu/Yashu is simply a further familiar contraction (perhaps corruption) of Yeshua, which is not even evident until hundreds of years after the fact.

    Messianic Hebrews use 'Yeshua'.

    Aramaic Christians use 'Yeshua'.

  • A Blot On The Jewish People

    08/19/2014 12:42:01 PM PDT · 26 of 148
    roamer_1 to idov; redleghunter
    That translation was regarded by contemporary Jews as a joke book.

    You might like to consider that the Protestants and their fellows make little use of the Septuagint - Their Old Testament Scriptures derive from the Masoretic tradition... From the Hebrew.

  • A Blot On The Jewish People

    08/19/2014 12:29:28 PM PDT · 25 of 148
    roamer_1 to redleghunter; idov; daniel1212; GarySpFc; boatbums
    [idov:]Christos is a nonsense word which if it were made into a noun which come out Rubbie.

    This is technically true - the common/base form of the term is 'to rub' or 'greasy, oily'. That is the point of the title. One is anointed by a pouring or rubbing of oil. One should not confuse the common term with the title.

    I am sure in your research of the NT gospels you noted the authors of the gospels explained christos=mashiach.

    Moreover, The term 'christos', the Greek form of 'anointed one' was used historically (christos, chrestos, chrest, christ) long before the Hebrew Messiah, in the very same sense - The title having been bestowed upon many titans and gods, to include Apollo (who comes up out of the pit), which case being why I prefer not to use the term - There are many 'christos', but only one Messiah.

    Whether my preference or not, the historicity of the title 'christos' leaves idov's statement wanting.

    @RLH: thx for the ping... nice to see you : )

  • Why Great Husbands Are Being Abandoned

    08/15/2014 7:49:44 PM PDT · 68 of 77
    roamer_1 to Tau Food; papertyger
    Call me old-fashioned, but I think it’s nice when the wife needs a bra more than the husband. Romance is important.

    I would call your attention to photos of aged folks from near the beginning of photography. The kind of folks who had the balls to walk across the Great Plains and raise eleven kids in a house no bigger than my living room, that they built with their own two hands... Fighting indians, robbers, weather and wildlife, to eke out a home. That is when marriages mattered and lasted.

    What you see in those old eyes (male and female) has little to do with romance. And they are, as a rule, not what we would call attractive.

    What you will see there is commitment and dedication. Tough.

  • Why Great Husbands Are Being Abandoned

    08/15/2014 7:29:18 PM PDT · 65 of 77
    roamer_1 to Drew68
    Sounds like you've read this: [2312 by Kim Stanley Robinson]

    Can't say as I have. Just a reasonable grasp of history, with a fair grasp of the differences therein, elite v. common. In the broad sense, this is SOSDD... It has happened before, and this time, like always, it will fail. And the common man (and woman) will survive and go back to what has always been, all the wiser for the sacrifice and blood that brought them there. For a generation or two...

  • Why Great Husbands Are Being Abandoned

    08/15/2014 5:57:14 PM PDT · 41 of 77
    roamer_1 to Drew68

    Meh. P*ssies talking to p*ssies about p*ssies.

    Patriarchy and matriarchy both have power. Different, but equal, and thus has always been the case. To diminish one is to diminish the other, and neither sex realizes their full potential. Women, in insisting an equal role and participation in patriarchy have lost the power of the matriarch. And men, chasing after these very women, have ceded the power of the patriarch. Now, there is neither, but only the hapless duality of the androgen... or the meaningless sufficiency of the hermaphrodite.

    What an unfortunate waste.

  • Alarms went at 6am in my house, I investigated armed (2nd thoughts)

    08/15/2014 2:09:08 PM PDT · 58 of 71
    roamer_1 to Vendome
    My alarms are losing their hearing due to old age.

    Time to get a new one going... they take a while to program properly. I like a redundant alarm, but I install them approximately every seven years or so, so that when the older system is starting to develop problems, the new system is at it's prime, fully programmed. It also helps me emotionally to have the secondary around when the primary ceases to function, and that secondary (now primary) system is invaluable in programming a new system.

    I don’t know what kind of violent allergic reaction I would have to someone hurting them but, I do have an extremely long memory...

    I hear you - In that moment, in full defense mode, with aggression at it's ultimate peak, and adrenaline pumping through my system, I am running on something very akin to instinct... I do not know if I would care to stop myself... That, I think, is the point of the spear. If I had the time to think it through, I doubt I would take the same decisions, but what I am capable of in that very moment is another thing (similar conditions have happened before).

  • Alarms went at 6am in my house, I investigated armed (2nd thoughts)

    08/15/2014 1:29:29 PM PDT · 51 of 71
    roamer_1 to Vendome

    I let my alarm out to poop this morning (part of it’s maintenance package). Part of that alarm’s function is to offensively deter any intruder, which is a delay tactic to give me time to ‘get set’ with the main offensive. Unfortunately, that feature is quite likely a one-time thing, and an intruder may very well disable that alarm permanently.

    I have some degree of uncertainty as to what I will do when, having heard the alarm go violently silent, I am faced with the man who did so, and he is wearing a badge...

    And my son is LEO.

  • Christian leaders who uphold Genesis

    08/14/2014 9:52:39 AM PDT · 63 of 64
    roamer_1 to ravenwolf
    Obviously angels do not marry.

    Am I to extrapolate from this that angels cannot or do not mate?

    I do not see it that way at all, in Gen 1 god did the planting.

    Then what were all those birds and beasts of the field eating? I already gave you the reference. There were critters running around...

    It is also possible that Genesis 2 could be telling it in a different way but either way I do not see that it happened in six of our days or even years but more like thousands or tens of thousands of years.

    Why? Because 6 days is too implausible?

  • Time to lay off Tony Stewart

    08/13/2014 8:37:49 PM PDT · 61 of 70
    roamer_1 to Moonman62; McGruff
    I read another account from a driver who said the accident which made Ward so angry was probably his fault, too. He said you don’t get in a driver’s blind spot on the right side coming out of turn.

    It was his fault. Stewart had the groove. His-drift out was already committed. Anyone who thinks Stewart purposefully wrecked the kid at the expense and risk of getting his front right tangled up just doesn't know what was going on. For him to take the groove on the high side, he needed another half a car length. He took the risk (which I don't blame him for), and lost.

  • Time to lay off Tony Stewart

    08/13/2014 8:17:38 PM PDT · 59 of 70
    roamer_1 to spel_grammer_an_punct_polise; Cincinatus' Wife; All
    Travelling at those speeds and likely could have killed someone, he purposefully wrecks two cars? Is that standard operating procedure?

    In a word, YES. Rubbing is Racing. If it bothers you so much, go back to watching your tennis or golf games.

  • Christian leaders who uphold Genesis

    08/13/2014 11:42:53 AM PDT · 61 of 64
    roamer_1 to ravenwolf
    I happen to believe that Adam was a special creation, not in the creation on the sixth day but later on in Gen ch 2.

    I see Genesis 1 as a broad overview, with Genesis 2 being a zoom-in to the specificity of the garden. compare:

    Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
    Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
    Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
    Gen 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
    Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
    Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
    Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


    Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
    Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

    (e-Sword:KJV)

    To cause the Gen 2 creation of Man to be distinct from Gen 1 creation of Man, one would (it seems) have to also make the creations of the beasts of the earth and fowl of the air in both places also distinct... Why the redundancy? That would seem to be inconsistent. It seems more likely that Gen 1 is 'scene 1', with Gen 2 being 'scene 2' - with a bit of retelling in order to set up the specificity of the Garden.

    Therefore Adams off spring are referred to as the sons of God and the daughters of men are the daughters of the men and women created on day six, From this marriage came the Nephilim .

    This is a rather unique spin on the 'Sethite' theory embraced by most churches... One which I must deny. Here are all the mentions of the 'Sons of God' within the OT:

    Gen_6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

    Gen_6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

    Job_1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

    Job_2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

    Job_38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    The 'Job' references seem to be referencing things outside the ken of Men, and the Gen 6:4 reference has the union of the Sons of God and the Daughters of Men producing giants... I would say the Sons of God are Angels - Fallen Ones. 'Nephilim' means 'Fallen Ones' or 'Sons of the Fallen'. Careful study will show you that these 'fallen ones' are the very same ones held in darkness and chains for their crimes. Those which will be let loose for a time in the end of days.

    And it is very, very important to understand in our day because they will be let loose:

    Dan_2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

    WHO, exactly is 'they'? 'They' are distinct from men. I think this same scenario has happened multiple times. I think it explains fully the profane pantheon of gods, the Titans and Heroes of old (the offspring, giants, men of renown). And without this understanding, one cannot properly see why YHWH selectively ordered not only complete genocide (only some cities, not others) in the conquering of Canaan, but why those cities and their fields were burned to the ground, taking no spoil at all - YHWH was routing out an infection (Sons of Anak, giants). It is easy for us to forget the war that is ongoing. That war is between the Sons of God and the Fallen Ones... We are caught in the middle.

    your idea that the dinosaurs were in Adams time but were destroyed by the flood is believable but how could so much oil be made in such a short time considering that only some of the dinosaurs would be turned into oil if fossil fuel was correct?

    As I said before, I am not entirely enamored with the idea that oil is 'fossil' fuel. It replenishes. I do believe that coal beds are evidence - Great mats of trees, grasses, animals and etc destroyed in the flood, and eventually settling to be covered over and compressed... Whether the oil within coal is a product of those things, or leached into it later, is beyond me. And that would be the question.

    I do not, however, mind the idea that the flood produced it (the oil, I mean)- you must think of the violence of it all, and how much stuff you'd have - every tree and bush on the whole planet uprooted... every single thing holding breath on the whole of the earth... Plants and animals... that is a HUGE amount of stuff... But be that as it may, I don't think we really have a clue about where 'fossil' fuel comes from....

  • Millennial Series: Part 8: Amillennial Ecclesiology

    08/13/2014 1:46:46 AM PDT · 62 of 179
    roamer_1 to one Lord one faith one baptism; boatbums; fishtank; CynicalBear; wmfights; Iscool; Lee N. Field; ...
    hopefully, both the dispensationalists and orthodox Christians can both agree that the person in the Bible who claims to be “ the first and the last”, only has one wife. can we agree on that? I think we can, certainly this person would not be a bigamist.

    YHWH has two wives.. Sisters... One, 'The House of Israel', and two, 'the House of Judah'. Israel was divorced, Judah is married still. The two are compared and contrasted throughout the OT. So your premise begins in error.

  • Back to School? Head Back to the Bible

    08/12/2014 3:27:52 PM PDT · 3 of 3
    roamer_1 to Faith Presses On
    What if this year, we turned that on its head? What if we decided that time spent as a family reading and talking about the Bible is our first priority? But we all realize, that won't happen if you don't schedule it.

    Or, one could just observe the Sabbath, which is what the Sabbath is *for*.

  • Christian leaders who uphold Genesis

    08/12/2014 2:51:05 PM PDT · 58 of 64
    roamer_1 to ravenwolf
    For years I have denied that oil was a fossil fuel coming from dead dinosaurs simply because it does not make sense to me. I have showed my disdain for that idea right here on free republic but do you think the literal six day creationist people will agree with me? no.

    Well, I kinda do agree with you... primarily because oil replenishes... At least in places. BUT, there is a bit of errata which disproves that thinking - That being intelligently designed and crafted objects found in coal deposits... I think those deposits were laid down by the flood. What that does to oil (as oil and coal seem to be related) should be pondered some... So while I agree with you in spirit, I remain ambivalent because of evidence that proves error in all popular memes. Thus I remain a pretty staunch Biblical literalist. Give YHWH the benefit of the doubt (instead of science), and you will be surprised (stunned even) by what He will reveal.

    So how about the dinosaurs who every one seems to think went ten thousand feet under ground to make oil. Where were they at in Adams time and how many of them did Noah put on the ark?

    Here I depart to a place far beyond the tinfoil veil for most folks - Genesis 6 depicts the times wherein the Nephilim came, breeding with the daughters of man, creating hybrids which were never meant to be, filling the world with violence, evil, and corruption. I see the scope of that to be much, much wider than most. The Bible says the whole of creation was corrupted (not just man). I think for the most part, dinosaurs were a part of that corruption; an hybrid against the natural law. I think they didn't make it on the ark for that reason - because they were a corruption, breaking the law of 'everything according to it's kind'.

    And I will point to those coal layers as proof. there are objects embedded therein that will fry your mind. There are coalified human remains. there are coalified dino tracks. There is exquisite jewelry and artifacts. The same can be found in the debris from deep water well drills... WAY down there.

    Those OOPARTS (out of place artifacts) mean a whole lot to me, because each and every such find (if you can find them) disproves what we have been taught to believe.

  • Christian leaders who uphold Genesis

    08/11/2014 12:11:53 PM PDT · 52 of 64
    roamer_1 to ravenwolf
    Yes, it is sort of like reading Revelation, about the time I think I have one part figured out it brings up a problem some where else, some people are willing to just ignore those problems, I can`t.

    Absolutely! but the pitfall wrt creationism is in giving science the benefit of the doubt, rather than YHWH - It is hard enough to comprehend the immensity of creating a human thumb in one day, not to mention the whole of everything we know, and far, far beyond to the very ends of the universe and the farthest reaches of time in six days! So it is natural enough to be skeptical of the event, without the many proofs that science puts forth. But then, my God has a greater understanding than all the scientists that have ever lived. Sometimes it is hard to remember that.

    And if I allow myself to wax allegorical in the first verses, what mischief will I cause by the end of the Book? And you know that to be true, I think, because that is exactly what most folks do, and the mighty words of YHWH are daily reduced to Platonic (or Socratic) drivel.

    If one does not take care to preserve the structures defined in the Bible, one can make it say just about anything.

  • The Two Objects Of The Dragon's Fury...Israel's Future pt 8

    08/11/2014 10:38:45 AM PDT · 19 of 23
    roamer_1 to one Lord one faith one baptism
    has the Church kept the commandments? absolutely YES!

    Even only in the matter of the Sabbath, your statement is absurd. Y'all don't keep the ten, not to mention the rest.

  • Christian leaders who uphold Genesis

    08/11/2014 10:36:07 AM PDT · 49 of 64
    roamer_1 to ravenwolf
    I have read about the Jubilees but have not read it but I can not see that it would add anything because we are looking at it from entirely two different angles.

    If one converts the history as found in the Bible into days (using the various genealogies) then convert the Grand Jubilees to days, and project them backwards toward creation, you will find an exact 7 day discrepancy... IIRC one week longer in the Jubilee than the genealogy addresses... I think that is precisely by design. The count for the Jubilees starts on the first day, in the first instant.

    Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
    Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.


    Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, [...]
    Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    My main concern is for the Sabbath - YHWH SPOKE above with great precision, and I will take him at his word. If the reason for the Sabbath is figurative, then the Sabbath itself is figurative, and the hallowing thereof is figurative, and then poof! Sunday worship. So no... YHWH meant what He said, and said what He meant (and YHWH is accurate, 100 percent) :P

    God does things in his time, all of our times are to correspond with Gods time not the other way around so we use 7 literal days to correspond with the seven days of Gods time.

    But it is YHWH who defined the time. HE defined the 7 literal days. That IS His 'time'. I understand your position, and I use 1/1000 in determining prophecy all the time. I used to be exactly where you are assuming a c.10k earth age. But it cannot pan out without doing damage to time sensitive parts of the prophecy, and without creating a nonsensical gap in the genealogy - which purposes to perform an exact record of time, that being extraordinarily needful in the pursuit of the prophets.

    At least that is what I believe, as I know nothing.

    May YHWH bless you, brother (sis?)!! An inquiring mind is how one learns! Test everything, and hold on to that which is good. : )

  • Freeper Input needed. Does Anyone Here Breed Dogs? Looking for Information on Getting Started

    08/11/2014 9:28:53 AM PDT · 136 of 181
    roamer_1 to Chickensoup

    I can’t speak to the genetics of the thing - I have always bred working dogs (Malamutes and now mini Ozzie Shepherds)... But I will speak to the logistics.

    Being in north country, it is best to use only the spring heat - The bitch will winter better if she is well recovered from her last litter. But that causes a problem, as one must keep her in seclusion during her late heat, which means a spacious and bullet-proof kennel or run for her, hopefully away from the male, as he will pine for her and drive you crazy.

    And to further complicate the issue, it is often the bitches that can’t get along very well - If you intend more than one female, it may well be that you will have to have to have a way to keep them constantly separated, AND a kennel/run for each when they are on their heat, and for when they have their pups, as they tend to deliver pretty much at the same time... Not to mention really good external fences, not only to keep everybody in, but also to keep others out while the ladies are advertising.

  • Christian leaders who uphold Genesis

    08/11/2014 7:31:57 AM PDT · 47 of 64
    roamer_1 to ravenwolf
    I would say it is just as easily your error,[...]

    Perhaps, but I don't think so.

    [...]the church teaches that every thing was created in 6 of our literal days because it says days in genesis 1 but they ignore the fact that genesis 2 dispels the notion that the days are literal.

    Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, (e-Sword:KJV)

    Gen 2:4 These are births of the heavens and of the earth in their being prepared, in the day of Jehovah God's making earth and heavens; (e-Sword:Young's Literal Translation)

    It seems to me the passage you quote speaks to order-of-decent, the ordering of the creation.

    As I said, study the Jubilees. The proof is there. It is literally one week of time.

  • Christian leaders who uphold Genesis

    08/11/2014 12:16:01 AM PDT · 44 of 64
    roamer_1 to ravenwolf
    But I would not bet on it, these are the Generations in which God made heaven and earth, Generations, not hours, not days, most likely thousands of years.

    Study the prophetic import of the Jubilee and Grand Jubilee to find your error.

  • The Two Objects Of The Dragon's Fury...Israel's Future pt 8

    08/10/2014 11:51:03 PM PDT · 16 of 23
    roamer_1 to one Lord one faith one baptism; pastorbillrandles
    “make war with the remnant of her seed........who have the testimony of Jesus Christ.......”

    Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    (e-Sword:KJV)

    did the Jews you talk about in this article all through history have the testimony of Jesus Christ?

    And has the 'church', throughout history, kept the commandments of YHWH?

    What's good for the goose would be good for the gander, no?

  • Rome's Chief Exorcist Reveals the Secrets of Hell

    08/10/2014 8:39:20 PM PDT · 41 of 53
    roamer_1 to caww; Dianna
    Much in this article contradicts the scriptures.

    You are a master of understatement. ; )

  • Why Does God Allow Christians to Suffer?

    08/10/2014 5:08:17 PM PDT · 73 of 92
    roamer_1 to OneVike

    I am not much for shrinks, but I have a great respect for Viktor Frankel’s ‘Man’s Search for Meaning’... One of the most poignant and profound works I have ever read as concerns the meaning of suffering. Frankel lost everything, and nearly everyone, barely surviving a Nazi death camp - His point of view is priceless.

  • Pray For the Peace of Jerusalem(8/9/14)[Prayer]

    08/09/2014 7:23:45 AM PDT · 9 of 18
    roamer_1 to left that other site

    Joining with all y’all in prayers for the Peace of Jerusalem - May He come swiftly...

    Shabbat Shalom.

  • Windows 9 will be an operating system you can love (will be aimed at desktops, not tablets)

    08/08/2014 12:14:38 PM PDT · 91 of 122
    roamer_1 to Arkancide; Organic Panic
    Don't dis DOS!

    I LOVED DOS! The worst thing MS ever did was make the OS dependent upon the windowing system. Can you imagine NTCMD and all it can do if you could boot directly to it?

  • Windows 9 will be an operating system you can love (will be aimed at desktops, not tablets)

    08/08/2014 12:01:19 PM PDT · 84 of 122
    roamer_1 to Signalman

    Windows:

    DOS6.22: AWESOME.

    3.0: crap

    3.1 sorta fair

    3.11WFWG: good, but not anywhere near OS/2 WARP.

    95: crap.

    95 950B: sorta good, maybe...

    98: better than 95, but really just 950B sommore... Ooh, look! a value pack!

    98SE: better than 98, DOS 7.10 - AWESOME w/ LFN and DMA and FAT32

    ME: crap. So utterly disappointing... DOS purposefully broken.

    2000: good, but crap from virii, no drivers, no boot disk, no way to access NTFS if the system is dead w/o a test bench.

    2000 SP3+: good, still no boot disk

    XP: totally owned by virii, still no boot disk - Is a boot disk so hard? You know, with a boot disk and a cmdline anti-virus, I could have a leg up on all these bugs I get every_friggin_day...

    XP SP2+: Good. REALLY good. Still no boot disk. It’s been like, a decade now... a boot disk would be nice one of these days...

    Vista: good, but fat and meh. Still no boot disk. My scanner is a doorstop. So is my printer.

    Win 7: REALLY good... holy crap! look! it’s got a boot disk! Not a very good boot disk though - One would think a file manager might be a good feature for a boot disk... Really? WTF good is a boot disk without a friggin file manager so I can get my crap off the stupid system? Oh, this is just disgusting... you did this on purpose, just to piss me off. What a crappy boot disk.

    Win 8: crap. YOU SUCK.

    Win 8.1 crap w/ sprinkles and a dusting of powdered sugar. I hate you.

    Win 9: ?

  • Israel Didn’t Expect This Miracle Just Seconds Before A Hamas Rocket Almost Killed Hundreds

    08/07/2014 12:33:44 AM PDT · 23 of 27
    roamer_1 to Bullish
    You know? Maybe God should consider a tidal wave covering all of Gaza.... Just sayin.... Just sayin. Then maybe he could relax a little more.

    Nah. See PS 83. He has a plan.

  • A Man And His Cat

    08/04/2014 4:48:58 PM PDT · 33 of 33
    roamer_1 to Cyman; Seizethecarp
    Columbus had left a large stool in the middle of my pillow on our new bed.

    I had the very same problem with my pet any time he was left alone in the house... Only he was a 125lb Malamute... :(

  • Contemporary Christian Music's Sinking Witness: Lack of depth and reverence to the Almighty

    08/04/2014 11:37:34 AM PDT · 174 of 344
    roamer_1 to kjam22; C. Edmund Wright
    I know.... people need to get a clue. We praise Johnny Cash for his christian stands. And that’s good. But he made his fame with secular songs. And we accept that he does both because we like Johnny Cash music. But we don’t like “POP” style music... so we hold those artists to a different standard. Its hypocricy... and if it leaves a mark... then so be it. It drives me crazy.

    That's almost right - I think the difference is that Country Music has always had Gospel music associated with it. They are nearly inseparable. Gospel has always been carried forward as contemporary within the genre... See 'Three Wooden Crosses' - by Randy Travis, 'I Believe' - by Diamond Rio, 'Some People Change' - by Montgomery Gentry, 'Long Black Train' - by Josh Turner. And while it keeps driving contemporary Gospel forward, it honors it's past as well - there is hardly a country star that hasn't covered 'Amazing Grace' or 'Old Rugged Cross'... Thus Gospel music survives and thrives within the greater context of the Country music ecosystem, it's own thing, by definition, but embraced, part and parcel, as a big part of the Country lifestyle.

    Christian Contemporary, admittedly Pop music leaning toward Rock, is it's own thing - There is no strong Christian identity in either pop or rock (quite the opposite, generally) - It does not rely on or survive within the genres it came from (where it is largely hated). It is supported by Christian folks who came out of Pop/ Rock (probably with a lot of baggage), and their children... It does not benefit from the 'lifestyle' aspect that Country Gospel does.

    Thus the 'standard' that contemporary Christian stars are held to is far more rigid, contained firmly within it's own world - ONLY Christians are listening, and the artists are portraying themselves according to the needs of their audience. There is no allowance for error - Step off the straight and narrow and doom ensues. Quite unlike Country, where folks know what 'good ol' boys' are gonna do, and will grant a certain amount of clemency.

  • Will Tea Partiers Sink Mitch McConnell’s Kentucky Senate Reelection Bid?

    08/04/2014 10:13:55 AM PDT · 130 of 192
    roamer_1 to mazda77
    cut the chord.

    Is that the ability to fart in 3-part harmony? ; )

  • Why do Protestant lay people hate clergy?

    08/02/2014 9:19:51 AM PDT · 1,058 of 1,112
    roamer_1 to Elsie

    Oops! Did I say that out loud? ; )

  • Why do Protestant lay people hate clergy?

    08/02/2014 12:09:41 AM PDT · 1,040 of 1,112
    roamer_1 to michaelwlf3; boatbums
    I don’t know how to break this to you, but historically, they are!

    No... no, they are not. What you are saying simply cannot be proven.

    Knowing this caused John Henry Newman to convert to Catholicism, and it nearly caused me to convert.

    Funny thing how that could work - It is the history that causes me to avoid the Roman church like the plague. There is no_way_ever, because I know history.

  • Why do Protestant lay people hate clergy?

    08/01/2014 9:15:55 PM PDT · 1,037 of 1,112
    roamer_1 to Cronos; af_vet_1981; xone
    The Nazis were pagan, not Christian. Their unified “church” wanted an Aryan Christ

    Absolutely... and tried mightily to dig up Woden...

  • Why do Protestant lay people hate clergy?

    08/01/2014 9:09:20 PM PDT · 1,036 of 1,112
    roamer_1 to Cronos; af_vet_1981; xone
    William l shirers book is the best for describing the relationships

    Thanks. If you care for what is no doubt a confirmation, but from the viewpoint of the profane, try 'The Occult and the Third Reich' - by Jean & Micheal Angebert (sp? sorry coming from my mem)... Their brazen view of the origins of the modern New Age movement will curl your teeth... Well, maybe not YOU... However, I would certainly not recommend it as reading for anyone not well grounded in the Word. It will walk you along a well traveled pagan/gnostic road, and declare blatantly what is only whispered elsewhere, to include a defense of your opinion of the Cathari, btw (which you and I have argued about in the past).

  • Why do Protestant lay people hate clergy?

    08/01/2014 7:08:56 PM PDT · 1,035 of 1,112
    roamer_1 to michaelwlf3
    The laity votes in many of these decisions, and are as much to blame as Clergy are. It is not the “hierarchy”, per se, it is the sinful times we live in.

    In my experience, that is not the case in the Presbyterian church. The Synod ordains a direction, and the churches must comply - They cannot bolt without losing their real property... So it is an extremely painful act to sever a church. Hence the laity are captured at the whim of their hierarchy, until the differences are so grievous that there is no choice but to sever.

    Oddly, the RCC (which many roundly criticize as a “hierarchy”) has retained it’s intergrity to a much greater extent than the Episcopal Church, the Methodist Church, and the Presbyterian Church.

    I certainly don't see that. Rather, the Protestant branches are free to leave and construct a more orthodox branch parallel to the mainline, which you see at least beginning in each instance - Or it's laity will wander off to an already existing, more orthodox branch of another, but similar, denomination... To wit: If you are looking for Calvinist orthodoxy, you will not find it in Presbyterian USA (the largest and most liberal branch), but you will find it in Presbyterian OPC and Presbyterian PCA. These are flourishing, while the old mainline USA withers on the vine.

    The Roman church, when it does eat bad fruit, has little means of expelling it, which is why she is so full of pagan syncretisms.

  • Why do Protestant lay people hate clergy?

    08/01/2014 1:40:25 AM PDT · 998 of 1,112
    roamer_1 to michaelwlf3; Elsie
    I have thought for a long time that Protestants in reality object and rebel against authority - all authority. My habit and my vestments are a sign of my vocation, they are not a problem for me, I am not responsible for your misconceptions.

    No. All protestants (as a generalization) recognize a submission to a church. How far that submission goes is the question, both in hierarchy and in truth.

    Many forms of Protestantism are congregationally aligned, wherein the local church has independence or priority over/from hierarchy, which becomes nothing more than convenience in tying various independents together. Even the more hierarchical branches are becoming very wary of their hierarchy, because most of the apostasy that they are expected to swallow has been shoved down their throats from on high... So 'higher authority' is getting a very bad name (as Anglican/Episcopalians can no doubt testify).

    And without a doubt, ALL protestants feel keenly that if their particular church or denomination is not following the Word, it is a personal call to put on the walking shoes. So you won't get far leaning upon robes of office for any automatic authority. What you DO matters way more than what you ARE.

    And finally, the vast majority of denoms and independents roundly reject the idea of a priest - there is no need or call for one to stand between the penitent and the divine, as He who stands as such is Master of us all. That particular beef should be of no surprise, as that uncomfortable difference has been present all the way along between the majority of Protestants and their more liturgical brethren. Most will recognize the role of an Elder or Pastor... Who stands alongside the penitent to help and guide.

  • Why do Protestant lay people hate clergy?

    08/01/2014 1:13:28 AM PDT · 997 of 1,112
    roamer_1 to Cronos; af_vet_1981; xone
    Sorry af_vet, as a Catholic and a history-lover, I reject any simplified clubbing together of Luther and Hitler

    Oddly enough, Cronos, we are in agreement (will wonders never cease?). Especially since Hitler truly espoused a sort of occult neo-paganism at the heart - He paid homage to the Lutherans (and the Roman church) because he had to politically - there is no doubt that such was a marriage of convenience.

  • Lambs to the GMO Slaughter

    07/29/2014 3:33:00 PM PDT · 33 of 46
    roamer_1 to Veto!
    Congrats, roamer_1. I really like your thinking on this topic. I live in a city apartment so cannot grow my own stuff, but shop very carefully. Costs me a lot, but not as much as sickness would.

    I appreciate your reply... Don't be like me. I had to learn it the hard way. : )

  • Lambs to the GMO Slaughter

    07/29/2014 3:31:30 PM PDT · 32 of 46
    roamer_1 to RipSawyer
    Having grown up on forty acres and living now on eight or a little better I can’t seem to get the hang of thinking small. I do know that a tiny plot that is cared for correctly will produce as much or more than an acre or two that is haphazardly worked.

    Watch this guy - As a farmer, he will BLOW YOUR MIND. It works. There is truth here.

    Back to Eden - Official Film

  • Chrome is throwing false 'Malware' detection for Free Republic

    07/29/2014 2:44:42 PM PDT · 90 of 104
    roamer_1 to Lazamataz

    Run anti-malware tools. You may have a redirector.