Posts by sasportas

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  • Five Myths About the “Rapture” and the “Left Behind” Industry

    09/30/2014 1:20:24 PM PDT · 65 of 222
    sasportas to sasportas

    Typo:

    the Assemblies, however, are neither non-denominational or post-trib which you now claim to be.

  • Five Myths About the “Rapture” and the “Left Behind” Industry

    09/30/2014 1:12:04 PM PDT · 62 of 222
    sasportas to huldah1776

    I take it your quest has ended at the Assembly of God, the Assemblies, however, are neither non-denominational of post-trib which you now claim to be.

  • Why everybody is moving to Texas

    09/29/2014 2:38:57 PM PDT · 30 of 80
    sasportas to SeekAndFind

    The pie chart confirms Kalifornos are a plague, in Texas and every other state they move into.

  • Millennial Series: Part 15: The Abrahamic Covenant and Premillennialism

    09/28/2014 7:10:18 PM PDT · 8 of 11
    sasportas to grumpa

    My mention of “the heavens and earth” refers to the events of Matt. 24:29 and Rev. 6:12-17.

  • Millennial Series: Part 15: The Abrahamic Covenant and Premillennialism

    09/28/2014 6:46:57 PM PDT · 7 of 11
    sasportas to grumpa

    So, which kind of preterist are you?

    The kind that has the whole of prophecy, including the heavens and earth passing away, the resurrection of the elect, and the 2nd coming of Matt. 24, and the entire book of Revelation, having taken place in 70 AD?

    Or the kind that believes practically identical - except for a few items they say were not fulfilled in 70 AD.

  • Unrepentant Ted Cruz Calls Democrats the ‘Radical Party’

    09/27/2014 12:37:07 PM PDT · 32 of 55
    sasportas to Beagle8U

    Ted Crux-Trey Gouty 2016!

    If this were to happen, God help anybody that gets in between me and the voting booth! Reagan was great, but this gets me much more excited.

  • Why I Want to Be Left Behind

    09/23/2014 10:11:36 PM PDT · 100 of 138
    sasportas to Iscool

    “What is surprising that you would comment on the scriptures that you must know you know so little about...”

    I was not commenting on the scriptures, I was commenting on Irenaeus, who was commenting on the scriptures (Rev. 13:18).

    As to the rest of your post, it is based on an assumption, a pre-trib rapture is assumed in the scenario you described. An assumption neither I, nor Irenaeus, would agree with.

  • Why I Want to Be Left Behind

    09/23/2014 6:06:26 PM PDT · 77 of 138
    sasportas to RegulatorCountry

    On what the Ante-Nicene Fathers believed on this issue, here’s something from Robert Gundry, professor of theology in California. He says: “Irenaeus, who claims to hold that which was handed down from the apostles, was as forthright a posttribulationist as could be found.” He quotes Irenaeus: “And they [the ten kings] shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight.” Against Heresies, 5,26,1.

    He has many more quotes from the Fathers, Cyprian among them, saying basically the same thing, he concludes:

    “We can conclude from the survey of Ante-Nicene writings that the early church was explicitly posttribulational. We discover not even a passing reference to, much less a refutation of, any who believed otherwise. Every Ante-Nicene writer who touches in any detail upon the tribulation, resurrection, rapture, or second coming displays posttribulation.”

    Gundry also brings premillennial into this, noting that Irenaeus, etc., were also premillennial (Chiliast), but that is not at issue here between us.

    Not saying Gundry is the last word on the subject, just saying his conclusions matches what I see in the Fathers.

  • Why I Want to Be Left Behind

    09/23/2014 5:34:49 PM PDT · 75 of 138
    sasportas to RegulatorCountry

    I agree with you, belief in the “rapture” is NOT a late 19th century innovation. Belief in a secret pre-trib, or mid-trib rapture, yes, but not the rapture per se.

    Darby did not claim his secret pretrib rapture belief came from the ante-Nicene Fathers, re: the quotes in your post, it seems obvious enough to me that the Irvingites of England, and the Scottish lass McDonald, both concurrent with Darby, did have had much to do with the doctrine he formulated.

    I think we both agree that the “rapture IS set forth in plain language, 1 Thess. 4, as a “catching up” to meet Christ in the air at his coming. We both believe there will be a rapture, it is whether it is secret, and whether it occurs before, in the middle, at the end of the trib, the issue we disagree on.

  • Why I Want to Be Left Behind

    09/23/2014 3:19:19 PM PDT · 53 of 138
    sasportas to RegulatorCountry
    I went to your Irenaeus reference, but when I read into the next chapter, chapter 30, I find Irenaeus saying something quite different.

    In part 4 of chapter 30, he warned that we should not come to rash premature conclusions about the number of the name of antichrist (666). We are given the number of his name that when he does come, WE may avoid him, he said (comment in brackets are mine):

    But he [John in Revelation] indicates the number of his name now, that when this man comes [the antichrist] we may avoid him, being aware who he is.

    Now, why would Irenaeus say that the reason the number of the antichrist’s name is given in the Bible, is so that when antichrist does come WE may be identify him, if we are supposed to have been raptured out before this?

    This, and a host of other very plain statements in “Irenaeus Against Heresies,” indicates that your take on what he said in chapter 30 is just a case of reading into Ireneeus your pretribism.

    Likewise, Cyprian, your quotation from his Treatises a strained interpretation. In the selfsame treatises, Cyprian quotes scores of prophetic passages from the New Testament having to do with the time of antichrist, for the express purpose of “preparing and strengthening the minds of the brethren” for those days:

    In the ending and completion of the world the hateful time of Antichrist is already beginning to draw near, I would collect from the sacred Scriptures some exhortations for preparing and strengthening the minds of the brethren, whereby I might animate the soldiers of Christ for the heavenly and spiritual contest. His Treatise XL, 1.

    As to Pseudo-Ephraim, his stuff is not held in such high esteem by most expositors, “pseudo” means false.

  • Why I Want to Be Left Behind

    09/23/2014 1:29:52 PM PDT · 25 of 138
    sasportas to RegulatorCountry

    Can you please give us the reference for your Irenaeus and Cyprian quotes? I mean, which books of theirs, which chapter, etc. As to Ephraim, is it Pseudo-Ephraim you are referring to?

  • Two recent ecclesiastical developments giving me pause and cause for prayer

    09/23/2014 1:02:10 PM PDT · 12 of 15
    sasportas to Teófilo

    I thought we had a thread that was about Christianity (ecclesiastical developments)... wrong, I see this is but another dreary RCC thread. We get flooded with ‘em around here. I should have know better, to Papists, “ecclesiastical” has meaning only to Rome.

    A little common courtesy: why can’t you guys put such stuff under a Catholic Caucus label? “Eccleiastical development” to a Protestant, has meaning other than the Papacy.

  • Millennial Series: Part 14: The Abrahamic Covenant and Premillennialism

    09/21/2014 5:33:30 PM PDT · 14 of 86
    sasportas to Jack Hydrazine
    Are you, Jack Hydrazine, the one we should look to as the last word on Jesus Christ? Or might it be the 12 apostles, all Jewish, Paul and the original church, all Jewish, might they know a little bit more about it than you?

    The original Jewish church knew all these arguments you use, and rejected all of them.

    Matthew, one of the original 12 Jewish apostles, knew more about Jesus than you, he said he had no earthly father, meaning he was the Son of God. Matthew said this of him,

    "And they shall call his name Immanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us," Matt. 1:23.

    Sorry, Jack, you are just a Jack come lately, you live some 2000 years after the fact. I'll take what the Jewish apostle Matthew says about it over you.

  • Millennial Series: Part 14: The Abrahamic Covenant and Premillennialism

    09/21/2014 3:40:07 PM PDT · 12 of 86
    sasportas to Jack Hydrazine

    “I dub it the United States Independent Conservative Party.”

    It’s got a nice ring to it, I must say... but, if you and your antichrist beliefs are its representative, I want nothing to do with it.

  • Millennial Series: Part 14: The Abrahamic Covenant and Premillennialism

    09/21/2014 1:59:02 PM PDT · 9 of 86
    sasportas to Jack Hydrazine

    Your tag line says:

    “Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!”

    And what is this other party, Libertarian? Considering your antichrist beliefs it would seem so...your anti-christianism should fit right in.

    Religiously speaking, a strange lot the libertopians: an assortment of atheists, agnostics, deists, pantheists, antichrists, and what not...anything but conservative Christians, which most Pubbies are. Neither are they collectivists.

    Socialists = collectivists.

  • 10 Common Misconceptions About Britain

    09/20/2014 6:21:07 PM PDT · 50 of 58
    sasportas to Tailback

    Oregonians and Californians. The Norwegians and Swedes say similar things about each other.

  • Why Women Do Not Belong in the U.S. Infantry

    09/17/2014 3:53:43 PM PDT · 52 of 64
    sasportas to ansel12

    You make good points.

    Something that comes to mind, there has been quite a few wartime instances when military units have had to make very hard forced marches, sometimes to gain an advantage over the enemies position, sometimes in a fighting retreat, sometimes to prevent yourself from getting outflanked.

    No dawdling, the survival of the entire unit can be at stake. In these kinds of moves, the unit cannot slow down, or stop for someone not able to keep up the pace.

    If the enemy is outflanking you, he will have you entrapped if you haven’t force marched yourself out of the trap. This is not just infantry, by the way, getting outflanked can happen to just about any kind of outfit.

  • The Rev Ian Paisley Dies Aged 88

    09/14/2014 3:41:48 PM PDT · 86 of 92
    sasportas to Agamemnon

    Your point about Michael Pflege is well taken.

  • All the Reasons Democrats Are Screwed This November

    09/14/2014 3:39:27 PM PDT · 36 of 39
    sasportas to chris37

    And I agree with your assessment 100%. I apologize for alluding to you as a libertarian. We are overrun with them on on FR, it seems.

  • All the Reasons Democrats Are Screwed This November

    09/14/2014 2:54:59 PM PDT · 34 of 39
    sasportas to chris37

    You are probably not going to like my response to what you said. Certainly so if you are a libertarian pulling for the defeat of both parties so you can get your party in power.

    The GOP cares only about winning elections for their party, thats what they are hired for. By reading the pulse of the electorate, if they discern the public is no longer conservative, meaning they will lose elections if they support conservatives, then they will support RINO’s.

    Simple as that, the problem is not the GOP, the problem is the masses out there. Sadly, their tea leaves they read is true. Most are adrift, having lost the Christian conservative anchor for their soul they once had. Deceived by the media, and willingly so. If you have bought their amoral lies, as libertarians have, then you too are part of the problem.

    The upshot of which is, unless the masses reverse this trend by turning to God in repentance, a change in their world view, then we have no choice but to vote lesser of two evils - libertarians makes it three evils. We’re in the end game, I don’t like these compromising RINO’s any more than you do, but the commie alternative is even worse. Sad state of affairs indeed.

    McCain gags me, but I voted for him over against Obama. Considering this overt commie we have got in office, single handedly destroying this country, I believe I did right (even McCain - anything - would have been better). And I’ll do similar again if I have to.

    The problem is the duped masses out there, its the people, they are the ones who vote in these commies. Blame the electorate, not the GOP.

  • The Rev Ian Paisley Dies Aged 88

    09/14/2014 10:08:21 AM PDT · 84 of 92
    sasportas to Agamemnon

    The Catholics are silent as an oyster when it comes to their own in politics, if you’ll notice. It’s all right for Catholic politicians to walk and chew gum at the same time, as you put it. but not an outspoken Protestant like Paisley. They do indeed have the zero-sum myopia you spoke of.

  • All the Reasons Democrats Are Screwed This November

    09/14/2014 9:49:53 AM PDT · 21 of 39
    sasportas to Dan in Wichita

    It makes you wonder how many of these anti-GOPers are libertarians. Back in the Reagan years the libertarians were railing against the Repubs, trying to get you to vote third party. They are out in force now, running incognito on FR, but we know their game.

    The Dems are so bad that even the worst Repub is better than any of them. The races are especially close now, a vote for a third party candidate is a vote for the Dems.

  • [UKIP's Farage:] Scots won’t get independence from a Yes vote

    09/13/2014 4:20:51 PM PDT · 30 of 34
    sasportas to bert

    Farage is only what the UK would call a conservative, he’s for homosexual marriage, etc., for heaven’s sake. In the USA we would be a run of the mill Sodom and Gomorrah libertarian.

  • The Rev Ian Paisley Dies Aged 88

    09/13/2014 1:29:51 PM PDT · 73 of 92
    sasportas to Agamemnon

    I went to your link, listened to Paisley’s message. I noticed, and contrary to the way so many on this thread want to think of Paisley, not a word said in the message about politics, instead masterful preaching of the word of God.

    Yes, he did get very involved in politics, but can anybody listen to this message and doubt he remained anything other than the great preacher of the gospel he was in this message? ...until he drew his last breath?

  • The Rev Ian Paisley Dies Aged 88

    09/12/2014 11:20:32 AM PDT · 46 of 92
    sasportas to demshateGod

    A wonderful video. A collection of quotations by truly great preachers of the past, Paisley, Ravenhill, etc., producing the answer, the ONLY answer for this sin cursed age we live in, true repentance, true revival.

    The revival hymn of your video fits all of us, Protestant, Catholic, and ordinary sinners. It affected me greatly, brought me to my knees.

    The other video in your previous post, another sermon of Paisley, was spot on also. God bless you, sir.

  • The Rev Ian Paisley Dies Aged 88

    09/12/2014 11:04:55 AM PDT · 45 of 92
    sasportas to Alex Murphy
    IMO a fair and honest eulogy.

    Yes, my sentiments also.

  • The Rev Ian Paisley Dies Aged 88

    09/12/2014 8:02:23 AM PDT · 30 of 92
    sasportas to .45 Long Colt

    Thank you for your post.

    I went to your link and listened to Paisley’s sermon, “Why I Am a Protestant.” I have heard him in other sermons, always powerful, but this, on the hour of his death, is especially poignant. It deeply stirred me. These thought came to me:

    I doubt there has been since the prophets of old, John the Baptist, Jesus in Matt. 23, Peter at Pentecost, has there been such a powerful and courageous voice raised! If one can’t discern Acts 1:8, “Ye shall receive POWER after that the Holy Ghost has come upon you,” in Paisley’s preaching there is something wrong with him.

    The shrill voices of Popery we constantly hear on FR sound like a bunch of silly little nerds - lightweights compared to Paisley. The power of real Protestant preaching like Paisley’s, trumps all of them.

    I am saddened by Paisley’s passing, it now falls on the rest of us to pick up the banner of truth and carry it on. In this sermon Paisley said: “The Romanists have Christ locked up in a box (literally as the wafer in a tabernacle), with only the priests the power to open and release Christ to the world (in the Roman mass),” he said. “Its the priests who need to be put in the box,” he said, while we with the truth release the power of Christ to the world!”

    Amen and amen. God give us the kind of faith and courage Paisley had.

  • A Tale of Two Churches

    09/09/2014 7:25:59 PM PDT · 40 of 42
    sasportas to Wyrd bið ful aræd

    From inside your Roman fish bowl, it’s tripe. For us outside the fish bowl, it’s quite obvious. I take my leave now. Have a good day.

  • A Tale of Two Churches

    09/09/2014 5:46:49 PM PDT · 38 of 42
    sasportas to Wyrd bið ful aræd
    Nope, you folks are Roman in every way and will always be so. I quote from a Protestant historian: (I bolded part of it, as it emphasizes my point about being Roman)

    Christ had designed to conquer by purely spiritual and moral means. Conversion was voluntary, a genuine change in heart and life.

    But now the military spirit of imperial Rome had entered the church. The church had conquered the Roman empire. But in reality the Roman empire had conquered the church, by making the church over into the image of the Roman empire.

    The church had changed its nature, had become a political organization in the spirit and pattern of imperial Rome.

    The imperial church of the 4th and 5th centuries had became an entirely different institution from the church of the first three centuries. In its ambition to rule it lost the Spirit of Christ.

    Worship, at first very simple, was developed into elaborate, stately, imposing ceremonies having all the outward splendor that belonged to Rome.

    The church became an amalgamation of pagan philosophies. The church lost sight of its true mission.

  • A Tale of Two Churches

    09/09/2014 2:43:19 PM PDT · 35 of 42
    sasportas to Wyrd bið ful aræd
    To Wyrd and the rest of you Papists bashing me for what I posted. What Wyrd says here...

    Christ established the Catholic Church and Its been here ever since.

    pretty well sums up the difference between you all and me. Christ did indeed establish the Catholic Church and it has been here ever since, but you folks err in saying it is the ROMAN Catholic Church. He did not establish this paganized and totalitarian ecclesiastical thing you folks are so enamored with.

    The Catholic church, meaning universal, that Christ established has been here ever since existing in his true believers, not in the Roman imposter system.

  • A Tale of Two Churches

    09/08/2014 3:35:51 PM PDT · 16 of 42
    sasportas to livius

    If you don’t want Protestants to post to this thread, you should have it designated “Catholic Caucus.” Nothing “bizarre” about my reaction to the “the Papacy the only true church, Protestants excluded” tone of this article.

    You folks have no idea what all this tripe Papists post looks like to a Protestant.

  • What is Ecclesiology and Why is It So Important Today?

    09/08/2014 3:24:58 PM PDT · 13 of 14
    sasportas to Ransomed

    Your post is a distortion, and you know it. We’re not talking supercomputers beneath the Vatican, we’re talking about the flood of Papist and anti-Protestant threads on the RF, the Pope this, and the Pope that, the Papacy the only true religion, Protestants are heretics, and such like. Anybody with one eye can see it.

  • Polling avalanche: GOP leads in eight races for Democrat-held Senate seats

    09/08/2014 2:00:13 PM PDT · 37 of 82
    sasportas to vpintheak

    Begich is pulling this “Real Alaskan” crap.

    I’ve noticed that, too. Sad to say, the masses out there fall for such propaganda. Keep the focus on anything but his almost 100% support of Obama.

  • What is Ecclesiology and Why is It So Important Today?

    09/08/2014 1:51:41 PM PDT · 11 of 14
    sasportas to markomalley

    Articles like this only confirms the obvious, to Protestants, that the RF is but a platform for PP, Papist propaganda.

  • A Tale of Two Churches

    09/08/2014 1:45:53 PM PDT · 14 of 42
    sasportas to livius
    I see the usual suspects have attacked as usual.

    Reading these Papist threads on the RF reminds me of reading the reverse psychology lies Pravda put out back in the days of the soviets. The lead article has the Papacy a continuity going back to the original church of the New Testament, thus, in effect attacking, not just the Church of England, but by extension every Protestant.

    Then, when any Protestant disagrees with their propaganda, he is said to be "attacking." They can attack at will, especially on this RCC RF, but if anyone disagrees, HE is the attacker. Go figure. It's Pravda reverse psychology they use.

  • Polling avalanche: GOP leads in eight races for Democrat-held Senate seats

    09/08/2014 1:20:53 PM PDT · 32 of 82
    sasportas to mandaladon

    I’d vote for anything at all before I’d vote for Obama man Begich. I include Sullivan as “anything at all,” I think he is a RINO. Since he is the Repub nominee, I’ll have to vote for him.

  • Chick-Fil-A Founder S. Truett Cathy Dies At 93

    09/08/2014 1:07:22 PM PDT · 24 of 29
    sasportas to Calif4Palin

    Truett Cathy was a courageous man, and I have tried to support Chick-Fill-A, but, to be honest, their food is not all that great.

  • Ancient ‘Last Supper’ Papyrus Gives Glimpse into Early Christianity

    09/06/2014 1:28:22 PM PDT · 30 of 38
    sasportas to sasportas

    My first sentence should have been broken down thusly:

    The early Christians in the book of Acts were very much aware of phylacteries, being as they were Jews.

    They were heavily persecuted by their fellow Jews and the Romans, yet we read nowhere in the book of Acts that they strapped phylacteries on their head and arm as protective amulets. Neither do we see directives in the epistles for their readers when threatened with persecution to do so.

  • Ancient ‘Last Supper’ Papyrus Gives Glimpse into Early Christianity

    09/06/2014 1:17:48 PM PDT · 29 of 38
    sasportas to madison10
    The early Christians in the book of Acts were very much aware of phylacteries, being as they were Jews, they were heavily persecuted by their fellow Jews and the Romans, yet we read nowhere in the book of Acts that they strapped phylacteries on their head and arm as protective amulets. Neither do we see directives in the epistles for their readers when threatened with persecution to do so.

    The kingdom of God was an external thing in the Old Testament, the phylacteries for instance, certain scriptures attached to their heads and arms; as opposed to the New Testament which is the kingdom of God internalized, Luke 17:20, 21. i.e., the revelation of Jesus Christ.

  • Ancient ‘Last Supper’ Papyrus Gives Glimpse into Early Christianity

    09/05/2014 9:36:20 PM PDT · 13 of 38
    sasportas to Vince Ferrer

    The Christian perspective should be the perspective we see in the Bible, in this case the New Testament. We see no such thing as the wearing of amulet magic “charms” in the New Testament.

    Many New Age mystic types extrapolate the practices from later times applying them to the time of original Christianity.

    As to the Gnostics, you might try reading the Nag Hammadi writings. Since you seem so defensive of these Egyptian Gnostic Christians, maybe you think Gnostics get a bad rap?

  • Ancient ‘Last Supper’ Papyrus Gives Glimpse into Early Christianity

    09/05/2014 9:01:21 PM PDT · 8 of 38
    sasportas to lbryce
    A 1,500-year old piece of papyrus...with Greek writing...has also been identified as one of the world’s earliest Christian charms.

    Christians wearing amulets, "magic charms?" Typical of paganized Gnostics from that area in Egypt. The article says this dates back 1500 years, at 500 AD that puts us in the time Egyptian Gnostics were causing such havoc, subverting original Christian practices and beliefs.

  • Asteroid will zoom within 25,000 miles of Earth

    09/04/2014 1:21:22 PM PDT · 34 of 49
    sasportas to John W

    In astronomic terms, 25,000 miles is incredibly close! However, an inch is as good as a mile they say.

  • Russia’s Leader Is Neither A Realist Nor A Nationalist

    09/02/2014 9:00:46 PM PDT · 8 of 10
    sasportas to Tailgunner Joe

    Thanks for posting this, very informative. I have suspected former KGB Putin has been operating behind a mask.

  • Who is Rand Paul?

    09/02/2014 8:47:09 PM PDT · 29 of 31
    sasportas to Kaslin

    I asked two devoutly Christian friends from Kentucky what they thought of Rand Paul, they think he’s the greatest thing since white bread. I said, he a libertarian just like his father, running as a Republican. They said, “libertarian, what’s that?”

    Apparently Kentucky is not very astute about these things. Probably why Rand Paul made Kentucky his residency...reminds me of the Clintoons moving their residency to New York.

  • Millennial Series: Part 11: The Theological Context of Premillennialism

    09/02/2014 6:25:12 PM PDT · 33 of 34
    sasportas to ravenwolf

    “But I do not know that the mark of the beast was just for the later days.”

    If not the latter days, then when?

    As to the other things you said about the first resurrection and those reigning as kings and priest in the millennial kingdom, they are dependent on the worship of the beast, his image, and the mark of the beast...described in Rev. chapters 6-19, i.e., the tribulation. If these things haven’t happened yet, then neither has the first resurrection, and neither has the millennial kingdom.

    “Do you believe the Kingdom of God is the same or even corresponds time wise with the thousand year reign?”

    The book I recommended has a chapter on “The Kingdom is Today,” another on “The Kingdom is Tomorrow.” That is what I believe.

    Not because the book says so, because I had already seen clearly the chronology in Revelation, I reasoned that passages from other books in the Bible that seem to contradict, could not be. George Ladd’s book merely confirmed what I had already been seeing.

  • Millennial Series: Part 11: The Theological Context of Premillennialism

    09/02/2014 10:55:06 AM PDT · 31 of 34
    sasportas to ravenwolf

    I have been fighting the battle for “a more sure word of prophecy,” 2 Pet. 1:19, for some 40 years now. I run into all types, many preterist amills and postmills, for instance, I have found to be downright sneaky, hiding what they really believe. The worst. Like pulling teeth to get them to admit what they really are. I usually don’t waste much time with such.

    Not so with you, from what you have posted, I believe you are for the most part up pretty transparent. (“For the most part” = I do wonder why so evasive on the tribulation-first resurrection-millennial kingdom chronology, Revelation chapters 6-20? You have yet to tell us your interpretation of Rev. 20:1-6.)

    In my search for truth on the kingdom issue, I came across this book by George Ladd some 30 years ago, “The Gospel of the Kingdom.” He dealt with the apparent contradiction between “The Kingdom is Today” (the name of one of his chapters), i.e., the points you have been continually making, and “The Kingdom is Tomorrow,” the points I have been making. It helped me a great deal.

    Ladd is one of the few I have seen tackle the apparent contradictive subject…and, in my opinion, done in a non-abrasive sort of way, he does a very good job.

    I could quote at length on how the book deals with the points you have made, I will if you want, but probably better if you would get the book for yourself. It’s wise not to be too closed minded on such critical issues as this, the kingdom, we should see what others have to say on it.

  • Millennial Series: Part 11: The Theological Context of Premillennialism

    09/01/2014 9:13:10 PM PDT · 29 of 34
    sasportas to ravenwolf

    “I did not say that it was difficult, just your assumption.”

    Seeing you had nothing to say about the very obvious chronology of: tribulation, first resurrection, then the millennial kingdom - the first resurrection closing out the tribulation while initiating the millennial kingdom in one event - I must have assumed right.

    Instead, you want me to deal with your arguments. I can, I do have answers for them, none of which you are going to like. My answers do not contradict what I have tried to bring out in Revelation, however, yours does.

    You do realize, what you see in these other books, and the obvious chronology in Revelation, cannot contradict? The Revelation, being the last word on prophecy, the last book of the Bible, says your interpretation in these other books must not be right.

    Now, if you want to turn that around on me, and say your interpretation in these other books is the last word on prophecy, and my interpretation of the chronology of Revelation cannot possibly be right, then at least do me the courtesy of telling me just how the chronology in Revelation is wrong. Please exegete Rev. 20:4 for me.

    I can save you the time, it is impossible for it to be any other way than the way the Revelation has it. Unless you can somehow get the tribulation to have already have happened, that is. The preterists claim to do that very thing.

  • Millennial Series: Part 11: The Theological Context of Premillennialism

    09/01/2014 6:04:01 PM PDT · 25 of 34
    sasportas to sasportas

    Numbers 3 & 4 should have said:

    3. The martyrs are martyrs of the tribulation that has to precede the thousand years, are they not? And we know from chapters 6-19 preceding chapter 20, that this is when the worship of the beast, his image, and his mark, takes place.

    4. The worship of the besst, his image, and mark of the beast haven’t happened yet, then neither has the first resurrection which resurrects those who did not worship the beast, his image, nor take his mark,

  • Millennial Series: Part 11: The Theological Context of Premillennialism

    09/01/2014 5:52:47 PM PDT · 24 of 34
    sasportas to ravenwolf

    Thanks for the response. I fail to see how Rev. 20 can be all that difficult for you. Verse four makes an absolute case for a future millennial kingdom. How so? I’ll try to break this down as simplistic as I can. Here goes:

    1. Martyrs of the tribulaion, who refused to worship the beast nor his image, nor take the mark of the beast, are described taking part in the event that BEGINS the thousand years, the first resurrection.

    2. The first resurrection, then, is the defining event on the millennial kingdom issue. Put simply, according to this verse, the tribulation has to occur BEFORE the thousand years.

    3. The martyrs are martyrs of the tribulation that begins the thousand years, are they not? And we know from chapters 6-19 preceding chapter 20, that this is when the worship of the beast, his image, and his mark, takes place.

    4. Since the worship of the besst, his image, and mark of the beast haven’t happened yet, nor has the first resurrection which resurrects those who did not worship the beast, his image, nor take his mark,

    5. Unless you are a preterist amill or a historicist amill, I’m sure you must agree the worship of the beast, his image, nor mark of the beast have obviously NOT happened yet. And neither has the first resurrection that resurrects these martyrs. And since the first resurrection begins the thousand years, NEITHER HAS THE THOUSAND YEARS.

    6. Which means the events of chapters 6-19 have to PRECEDE the events described in 20:1-6. Which makes 20:4 the key verse proving chapters 6-20 to be chronological. If is proven to be chronological, then it is virtually impossible for us to have been in the millennial kingdom for the last two thousand years.

    7. These things being so, this also means the binding of the devil for a thousand years is not the extremely strained interpretation amills have made of it.

  • Let My People Go: The Catholic Church and Slavery

    09/01/2014 2:09:31 PM PDT · 75 of 101
    sasportas to NKP_Vet

    PP (Papist propaganda). Western civilization was built IN SPITE OF the Papacy, not because of it.