Free Republic

What you said couldn’t be farther from the truth.

I have never advocated gay marriage in any way shape or form.

It is a historic fact that any civilization that embraces deviant behavior as the norm they have collapsed.

That is where America is.

There are people here that still believe the GOP actually holds these values as important. Unfortunately the actions of the GOP clearly do not demonstrate that.

We are in a position where the federal government is gone for conservatives. So we can keep trying to fight there and 100% for sure lose and end up with no options or we can pick a smarter path to wage the battle.

It was xzins who took this down the rabbit hole not me. I only responded.

I have absolutely not faith in the GOP to do anything that would support any conservative values.

SVCW you are right. You got some propaganda and proved me wrong.

LOL...really. Do you believe the GOP actually supports those planks in their actions?

I wasn’t trying to debate the states planks.

I was merely pointing out reality that Boehner, McConnell are going to fold on ALL conservative issues.

The RNC and GOP establishment are trying to extinguish conservatism...do you agree with that?

You could do the very same thing with Obama, show web-pages that state positions on things. With that logic you wouldn’t think Obama has done anything wrong.

It is the actions of the people that determine what they really believe and do and the GOP establishment is going to screw us over every which way they can at a federal level.

McCarthy and Boehner purge is a perfect example.

And somehow making something illegal makes bad stuff go-away.

Brilliant.

Are you related to Bloomberg?

Our blood should be tested regardless of whom is giving it and tainted blood should be destroyed.

LOL making something illegal or banning it doesn’t solve the tainted blood problem.

And I have NEVER advocated gay marriage is any shape or form. I just don’t want the federal government in our lives anymore.

These are the clowns you are banking on Jim.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/10/GOP-source-Majority-Whip-Kevin-McCarthy-drafted-Boehner-s-secet-conservative-purge-list

And that is exactly why the GOP needs to push this discussion back to the states otherwise we are going to lose traditional marriage ANYWHERE because Obama is going to force it through early in his second term.

We can’t win that battle head-on however we stand a chance if get the argument moved to the states. The majority of population would get behind the idea of letting the states decide.

I would rather be able to live in a state that supports traditional marriage then live in a country where we have no options.

xzins...stated homosexuality was illegal for many years and since homosexuals have diseases related to their life-style then it becomes a matter of federal government to protect the rest of us from their diseases.

The only tool the federal government has to protect people from something is by making it illegal.

I think it is twisted to think the federal government should protect us from a disease caused by a life-style choice.

To me it is down the road of fascism and just like you said we know have people in power that view conservatives the same way...a disease and the federal government should make being conservative illegal (recent comments exposed on MSNBC).

And the only thing I stated in the beginning was why is the federal government involved in marriage anyway? That one question turned into the hate-filled rhetoric against gay people.

Also after Weimar is when the people in Germany were begging for the government to come top down on the issues. It always happens that way.

And quite frankly that is why people should be really pissed with Bush W...he set the stage for our mini-weimar which lead to the current marxist in chief.

It is a fact that the poor spread disease to.

Holy crap so do school kids.

Let’s get the mob and round them all up.

Seriously you think passing a law is going to stop the disease. It will take care of itself.

I am not advocating gay marriage in any way shape or form. All I have said is you will lose the argument and be forced to accept gay marriage if we keep the fight at a federal level.

There is no opposition in the GOP (that has any voice) that will be able to stop this.

Why is that so difficult for any of you to see?

Do you want to outlaw smoking, drinking?

They create more disease and economic impact than anything else...

However with all said it is true that historically any civilization that has embraced deviant behavior as the norm as perished and that is exactly where America is.

Our only chance is to restore strong conservative values at the state levels.

And you actually believe that.

To the establishment within the GOP those are just words. They don’t believe in it.

Watch Boehner will cave in on this without hesitation.

I don’t need to read some political talking points to trick voters into supporting them, I look at their actions.

I look at the RNC abandoning Bachman during the election, I look at the establishment hacks attacking all the conservative candidates so they can force Romney on ALL of us.

You want to read a website get some verbiage that you like and then dismiss the record.

You are confusing me for someone else.

I have never been a Romney supporter. He wouldn’t even be on a list I would consider as a conservative.

I have never suggested anything like that.

I have had one consistent suggestion.

We have to fight these battles locally and not nationally.

Nationally it is over and if we continue to try to fight this nationally right now...WE WILL NEVER get back in power.

What are you talking about?

You really can’t see the truth can you?

Gingrich admitted he was and is a progressive.

Until the end of the primary literally 45 days before his book was to hit the streets he had an entire chapter on Global Warming and the need for Cap & Trade - that HALLMARK of a progressive. Once it got out about the chapter and it was publicly trending positive for him he removed it. Why remove it if it was so important that is required an entire chapter?

Just go look at the executive orders and the bypassing of Congress over and over again by Bush W, he set the stage for the next asshole to come in and supercharge it.

Obama blames Bush for everything...I blame Bush for Obama.

Jim it already has been done. There are NO pro-life, pro-family planks anymore in the GOP. Isn’t that the real problem here...the GOP doesn’t agree with our view of the world?

My God man look at how many people were duped and are still duped by the Bush’s and Gingrich...

The reference to 1930’s Germany was two-fold.

1) The people were begging the government to come down and support their ideas as laws.

2) The Nazi’s specifically labeled gays, jews, etc as diseases and that is the responsibility of the government to defend against those diseases.

That is the EXACT argument xzins used to support his case against gay marriage, that gays are a disease and they need to be outlawed.

Does anyone think that is what we should be doing here?

Selecting a group we don’t agree with and making them criminals? You could make the case against ISLAM because they state they want to kill us.

Categorizing any human as a disease is sickening.

It was well after the primary Jim. During the primary he fought very hard for Bachman, and Santorum mainly.

He exposed Gingrich and Romney as the progressives that they are.

Watch Jim DeMint will be 1000 times more effective now that he has left the Congress.

Our representatives do NOT represent us.

And Jim exactly what representatives from California are you referring to?

What candidates in Congress?

Oh you mean the ones that Boehner stripped out of their committee chairs?

Come on, get real there are NO voices in the GOP that are going to be heard now discussing anything that would resemble a conservative idea.

Jim I listened nearly every single day during the primary. He was never a Romney supporter.

He supported Bachman first - had very long interviews with her, then he support Rick Perry a little...after Bachman and Perry folded he was 100% behind Rick Santorum.

All of them were frequent guests on his show and HE NEVER HAD ROMNEY on his show.

Jim this DOJ won’t support any law we are lucky to get passed anyway and it isn’t going to change for many years.

Our only option is to drive this agenda one state at a time.

The federal government will ultimately collapse and those states that are clearly standing with the federal government will go down with them.

The GOP is now the WHIG party and they will NEVER recover from this. Mark my word by the next election there will be a third party that true conservatives will flock to including those already in office and even a couple from the DEM party.

Think about it...100 years the GOP has produced only 2 decent presidents. Calvin Coolidge and Ronald Reagan.

Beck was deeply behind Bachman and he liked Perry and then Santorum.

It was no ruse. Beck was one of the very first to call Romney a progressive (using his own words in MA).

Not defending Beck here at all. In fact the article is not truly representative of what he said anyway.

Beck’s point is just one simple point.

Why is the government involved in marriage AT ALL? He is absolutely right about this.

Beck was not a supporter of Romney during the primaries at all Jim. Beck got behind Romney for one reason - at least he isn’t a communist.

If you don’t listen to Beck regularly don’t claim you know where he stands.

and somehow after decades and decades of voting GOP the conservatives never seem to learn.

Jim we have already lost. It is over man. What the founders envisioned, what the Constitution states, our branches of government, checks and balances...THEY ARE ALL GONE.

Unless we are willing to change the terms of the battlefield and reset the operational tempo we will never get it back.

The best path to restore our country is to bring it back to the states, let states make stupid decisions - who cares.

You still live in CA? WHY????????

We need to adopt the strategy it is too big to succeed.

To sit there and think we are going to be able to affect anything at the national level now is delusional. It’s over. America is finished.

You want to fight to get our country back...then we do it state by state.

And it will take care of itself.

and that will NEVER as long as abortion, gay rights, etc is decided at the national level. That is the problem.

The RNC will sabotage any true conservative EVERY single time.

Stupid is as stupid does...

Let me spell it out for you.

The fools in Germany that looked to the State to solve their problems ended up suffering in severe misery just like anyone here trying to get the State to solve their problems.

We have people in charge of our country that absolutely hate us, America and everything we believe.

Just so we are clear. State with an uppercase means the federal government.

We deserve the government we get and the path we are on now...a lot of people are going to end up dead because of this shit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2246312/Girl-7-beats-leukaemia-revolutionary-treatment-using-HIV-virus-wire-immune-system.html

really Jim...really that is what you took from my comment.

Those that look for the federal government to solve issues are no different than those that begged for that in the 1930’s and what happened...

The Nazi’s rose to power...

WTH do you think is happening here? Everyone begging for the federal government to pass a law to enforce their will.

Do you actually think we stand a chance in hell on getting ANY conservative agenda item on the table at a national level at this point?

Until we remove abortion, gay rights, etc off the table at a national level we will NEVER win another national election.

The best way to remove these issues is to drive them down to the state level. The democratic victim machines collapses.

Hey genius what are you going to do when the federal government bans Christmas and anything else to do with the Christian faith?

Where are you going to go?

You going to submit or become a criminal?

You would have flourished in the 1930’s in Germany.

You just don’t understand the implication of what you are asking for. IT WILL BE TURNED AGAINST YOU.

It’s coming and people like you will absolutely deserve the immense suffering you will receive from the very same people you are empowering and you will have NO place to go.

You are a short-sighted fool who completely ignores historical fact and exactly what is going on in this country. You have been played and you continue to be played.

You probably think the Patriot Act is a great thing, that George W was a great president.

Theories?

The entire issue has to do with federal versus state - that’s it.

I could care less if a state made anything legal or illegal, their decisions would drive the ultimate fate of that state.

We would have choices - if your state made a law you don’t agree with you could move. Whenever we want a top down enforcement from the federal government we end us losing.

You are so stuck with your hatred you can’t see straight nor see the simple point that has been made.

The reason you are big government is because you think the federal government should enforce the things YOU WANT them to enforce. I DON’T WANT the federal government enforcing ANYTHING I want. The states can do whatever they want.

I wouldn’t support any of that at the Federal level whatsoever...however I think the states can’t do what they want to do.

I think this is a really important piece of the puzzle, without the freedom of the states to try their stupid ideas we will ALWAYS be forced by the federal government to suffer uniformly under their stupid ideas.

Let’s the states try anything they want and when they fail miserably at competing, etc...problem solved they just go away.

Read the history of Reagan, what his challenges were and exactly how he ended up with the nomination.

The GOP establishment absolutely did not nor did they support Reagan and in fact even today they work diligently to diminish anything he did.

If you want to see some interesting history...read about what happened to Reagan when he said he going after the Federal Reserve.

Answer one question...

Do you think the tax code should be used to modify one’s behavior?

lol...I just think the role of government is at the state level not one monolithic federal government that progressives love.

The progressives scream diversity but they turn and crush it every chance they get!

spoken like a true progressive.

And here is the fix to ensure that we NEVER have a valid election again!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-11/u-s-should-consider-automatic-voter-registration-holder.html

And the GOP along with Boehner and McConnell will accept this and stand with these criminals.

Here is your beloved GOP...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/exclusive-president-obama-predicts-gop-cave-taxes/story?id=17937679#.UMf8qINQXYl

The fix is in.

Take some time and seriously consider how happy you have been with the GOP.

Reagan shouldn’t have ever happened, the RNC sabotaged his efforts for decades before he got the nomination...then what did they do...they saddled him with George H (Progressive).

Then we get George W - who is 100% responsible for Obama and 100% for Obama going hog-wild bypassing every check and balance in our system. George W owns that because he did all the same stuff and once both parties do it...to hell with the Constitution and the rules...it becomes precedent and allowed.

Just look at Obamacare, SCOTUS declared it a tax, ALL taxes have to start in the House...oh well not anymore because the POS Boehner doesn’t have the balls to stand up and force the issue.

WTH is a social conservative?

You are either conservative or your not...

You either support free markets or you don’t...

You either believe the US Constitution is a contract between the federal government, the state and the individuals or you don’t...

The Constitution is very clear on what is allowed and what isn’t.

The federal government shouldn’t be involved in any of these issues.

The entire premise was to allow states to experiment to see what works and what doesn’t.

Every SINGLE time so called conservatives beg the federal government to SAVE them they immediately create a “victim” group that the Marxist/Communists can identify and pretend to be saving them and everything backfires and we ALL lose and Conservatism will be dead. We are months away from Conservatism being completely dead in this country.

So go ahead and keep player their game sucker - we get the government we deserve.

What exactly has the government ever done for you?

What do you think the government will do for or to your kids?

Actually I did.

I have never claimed to be a libertarian.

I am not going to discuss the libertarian view on the world - I don’t prescribe to it...so I don’t understand why you think I would have to address your points. Go find a libertarian and debate that with them.

The Communists in our government and on MSNBC can make the same exact argument about the Tea Party and they do.

To twist this into some argument about National defense is truly one of the most bizarre points I have ever read on FR,
A+Bert is that you?

Read the Federalists Papers, the letters between Jefferson and Madison, learn about George Washington and then will you understand the formula that created the greatest nation in the history of mankind.

You know there was a time when man was truly free in America before all of these absurd laws, social engineering that countries would build monuments to us because we were such an inspiration that all changed when Teddy Roosevelt came along and decided to infect our political system with his progressive ideas. Don’t forget he was a Republican.

As a conservative are you happy how you are represented by the GOP? The GOP isn’t conservative, the RNC isn’t conservative, neither of them will ever be and conservatives better wake up because we keep voting for the WHIG party.

I have never claimed to be a libertarian.

I am a conservative and free market capitalist - PERIOD.

As Calvin Coolidge and Ronald Reagan both said - The government is the problem not the solution.

It is a very simple premise - if you ask the government for something - the price you will ultimately pay will be too high and you will lose what you asked for originally. It always happens that way.

To twist the idea of gay marriage is somehow part of the national defense as outlined in the Constitution is bizarre and not even mentally rational.

Just because we don’t believe in something doesn’t mean we get to ban it by twisting the Constitution to our liking - that is what a Progressive does. True Constitutionalists read the US Constitution for it DOES say, not what it could say.

Have you read the Federalists Papers?

Do you think where we stand today as a Republic is a good place to be? We have so many 10’s of thousands of laws on the books no one even knows if they are breaking a law or not, how has that happened? Because every special interest group has decided they needed something banned - you know what the end result is now?

No matter how law-abiding you are the government has an absolute fool-proof method to incriminate anyone at anytime and in fact you don’t even need to be guilty of a crime anymore - Obama has decreed with the help of Congress that he can pick up any citizen without cause and detain for an indefinite amount of time without counsel.

So as we spiral downward in the annals of history we decide to argue about ridiculous things like this instead of actually trying to fix the problems to save the Republic.

Why do we have permits for residential construction, drivers licenses, marriage licenses, etc...

One reason - so they can tax us incrementally and keep of us and what we are doing.

This isn’t rocket science and this has nothing to do with what is right or wrong - this is 100% about the government inventorying everything about us from cradle to grave just so they can determine what you or I will be ALLOWED to do.

Again you miss the point entirely.

Here is the point.

We shouldn’t want the government involved in any of this, not traditional marriage, not any kind of marriage.

That is the point, when you look to the government for an answer or a solution then you “might” get some short-term relief (of course it will be a compromise to start with because that is politics - no one is happy) but ultimately it always back-fires as we push for the government to make a stand on traditional marriage and we think we have won and then down the road - the very thing we did to get a stand on traditional marriage is used against us to destroy it.

They literally do this every single time.

The ONLY answer to save this Republic is to get government OUT of our private lives. That means everything. Get out of our health-care, get out of my God given rights, etc...

But to have freedom and liberty means we need to tolerate things we don’t like or care for or even don’t believe. That is where God comes in, those people that choose the wrong path will have their reckoning and we really need to leave it to God because it will NEVER work for us having the government shoving this crap down our throats.

You want to see where ALL of this is going, take some time and research the UN Agenda 21 and then go to your local town meetings, planning and zoning and you will see Agenda 21 being implemented right NOW in your neighborhood.

Unfortunately you miss the point.

You are assuming that the people in power will use good judgement and have a moral basis.

You say “It is right to quarantine the dangerous.”, what happens when a tyrant decides to quarantine us.

Everyone misses this glaring point. We are way beyond thinking we can turn this around, etc... The only answer if the Republic is to survive is to drive government out of our lives in any way, shape possible!

You big government types keep thinking it can’t happen here, or that somehow people like Obama will find their moral compass, etc... you can’t find what doesn’t exist - after all it really depends on what your definition of is - is...

Amen.

The irony of it all...people want the government to “give” them a “right” and that is where they screw up. As long as the government can give a right it can take it away and they eventually always do.

You big government types always miss the point in this discussion.

The point has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with gay marriage - it is 100% about why is the government involved in our lives at this level!!!

Solve that and all this BS goes away. That is why the DEMS love to do this stuff... decisive issues that split us.

Get the government out of our lives and let people do what they want, let them be free and let them deal with their own day of reckoning when the Good Lord calls them home.

The reason I labeled you as big govt types is that you believe it is the role of the government to dictate things like this.

Thanks for the clarification, I thought he was from the country of asshole!

It is us...the voter who keeps learning the wrong lesson. We keep showing up to vote and we vote GOP and they keep disappointing.

The RNC and GOP aren’t the problem, we are.

Time for conservatives to stand together and drop this two-party BS...

I have voted GOP my entire life...I am done supporting these ass-clowns, I will work locally to get a new conservative party going and give voters a real choice, candidate within a party that has solid clearly stated principles who stand behind them no matter what.

Thanks for the update that is great news!