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  • Journal of the Federal Convention July 19th 1787

    07/19/2011 5:38:44 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 1 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Popular Presidential Elections. Multiple Terms. Biennial Elections. President for Life. State Electors. Separation of Powers by Madison. North v. South Popular Suffrage. Elbridge Gerry Speech – State Governors Appoint Electors. State Legislatures Appoint Electors. Six Year Terms. In Convention. On reconsideration of the vote rendering the Executive re-eligible a 2d. time, Mr. MARTIN moved to reinstate the words, "to be ineligible a 2d. time." Mr. GOVERNEUR MORRIS. It is necessary to take into one view all that relates to the establishment of the Executive; on the due formation of which must depend the efficacy & utility of the Union among...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention July 18th 1787

    07/18/2011 2:46:41 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 3 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Judiciary. Advise and Consent. Compensation of Judges. Inferior Courts. Jurisdiction. Continuation of Government. Republican Government Guarantee. Rebellions. In Convention On motion of Mr. L. Martin to fix tomorrow for reconsidering the vote concerning "eligibility of Exective. [FN1] a 2d. time" it passed in the affirmative. Mas. ay. Cont. ay. N. J. absent. Pa. ay. Del. ay. Md. ay. Va. ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. absent. [FN2] The residue of Resol. 9 [FN3] concerning the Executive was postpd. till tomorrow. Resol. 10. [FN4] that Executive shl. have a right to negative legislative acts not afterwards passed by 2/3...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention July 17th 1787

    07/17/2011 2:57:56 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 18 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Sixth Resolution. Taxation. Requisitions. Congressional Veto of State Law. Roger Sherman, James Madison, Governeur Morris & Judicial Review. Congressionally Elected Executive. Term Limits. President for life. In Convention Mr. GOVERNR. MORRIS. moved to reconsider the whole Resolution agreed to yesterday concerning the constitution of the 2 branches of the Legislature. His object was to bring the House to a consideration in the abstract of the powers necessary to be vested in the general Government. It had been said, Let us know how the Govt. is to be modelled, and then we can determine what powers can be properly given to...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention July 16th 1787

    07/16/2011 2:55:51 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 9 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    The Great Compromise. Initial House Apportionment. Enumerated Powers. Treatment of New States. Decennial Census. Three Fifths of Slaves. House Money Bills Unalterable by Senate. Equal Senatorial State Suffrage. Threat of Dissolution. In Convention. On the question for agreeing to the whole Report as amended & including the equality of votes in the 2d. branch. it passed in the Affirmative. Mas. divided Mr. Gerry, Mr. Strong, ay. Mr. King Mr. Ghorum no. Cont. ay. N.J.ay. Pena.no. Del.ay. Md.ay. Va.no. N.C. ay. Mr. Spaight no. S.C.no. Geo.no. [FN1] [Here enter the whole in the words entered in the Journal July 16] [FN2]...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention July 14th 1787

    07/14/2011 3:01:43 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 13 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Domination of New States. Dissolution. Equality of Senatorial State Suffrage. Rufus King Speech. National vs. Federal. In Convention. Mr. L. MARTIN called for the question on the whole report, including the parts relating to the origination of money bills, and the equality of votes in the 2d. branch. Mr. GERRY. wished before the question should be put, that the attention of the House might be turned to the dangers apprehended from Western States. He was for admitting them on liberal terms, but not for putting ourselves into their hands. They will if they acquire power like all men, abuse it....
  • Journal of the Federal Convention July 13th 1787

    07/13/2011 2:45:53 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 10 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Taxation & Representation. Population, not Wealth Basis in First Branch. Morris Speech. Mississippi River.In Convention. It being moved to postpone the clause in the Report of the Committee of Eleven as to the originating of money bills in the [FN1] first branch, in order to take up the following "that in the 2d. branch each State shall have an equal voice." Mr. GERRY, moved to add as an amendment to the last clause agreed to by the House, "that from the first meeting of the Legislature of the U. S. till a census shall be taken all monies to be...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention July 12th 1787

    07/12/2011 2:40:14 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 5 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Taxation & Representation. Requisitions. Three-Fifths Rule. Census. In Convention. Mr. Govr. MORRIS moved to add to the clause empowering the Legislature to vary the Representation according to the principles of wealth & number [FN1] of inhabts. a "proviso that taxation shall be in proportion to Representation." Mr. BUTLER contended again that Representation Sd.. be according to the full number of inhabts. including all the blacks; admitting the justice of Mr. Govr. Morris's motion. Mr. MASON also admitted the justice of the principle, but was afraid embarrassments might be occasioned to the Legislature by it. It might drive the Legislature to...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention July 11th 1787

    07/11/2011 2:37:34 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 2 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Census of Freemen and Slaves. Three-Fifths Rule. Wealth v. Population in First Branch. Periodic or Occasional Census. In Convention. Mr. RANDOLPH's motion requiring the Legislre. to take a periodical census for the purpose of redressing inequalities in the Representation, was resumed. Mr. SHERMAN was agst. shackling the Legislature too much. We ought to choose wise & good men, and then confide in them. Mr. MASON. The greater the difficulty we find in fixing a proper rule of Representation, the more unwilling ought we to be, to throw the task from ourselves, on the Genl. Legislre. He did not object to...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention July 10th 1787

    07/10/2011 2:55:15 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 3 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Apportionment in First House of Reps. Population Statistics. Slavery. Trade. Periodic Census. In Convention. Mr. KING reported from the Come. yesterday appointed that the States at the 1st. meeting of the General Legislature, should be represented by 65 members in the following proportions, to wit. N. Hamshire by 3. Masts. 8. R. 1st. 1. Cont. 5. N. Y. 6. N. J. 4. Pa. 8. Del. 1. Md. 6. Va. 10. N. C. 5. S. C. 5. Georgia 3. Mr. RUTLIDGE moved that N. Hampshire be reduced from 3 to 2. members. Her numbers did not entitle her to 3 and...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention July 9th 1787

    07/09/2011 2:50:55 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 10 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Apportionment in First House of Reps. Keep New States Down. Slaves as Men or Property. In Convention. Mr. Daniel Carroll from Maryland took his Seat. Mr. Govr. MORRIS delivered a report from the Come. of 5 members to whom was committed the clause in the Report of the Come. consisting of a member from each State, stating the proper ratio of Representatives in the 1st. branch, to be as 1 to every 40,000 inhabitants, as follows viz "The Committee to whom was referred the 1st. clause of the 1st. proposition reported from the grand Committee, beg leave to report I....
  • Journal of the Federal Convention July 7th 1787

    07/07/2011 2:39:02 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 4 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Second Branch Suffrage. What of Enumerated Powers? G. Morris Speech. In Convention. [FN1] "Shall the clause allowing each State one vote in the 2d. branch, stand as part of the Report"? being taken up Mr. GERRY. This is the critical question. He had rather agree to it than have no accomodation. A Governt. short of a proper national plan, if generally acceptable, would be preferable to a proper one which if it could be carried at all, would operate on discontented States. He thought it would be best to suspend the [FN2] question till the Comme. yesterday appointed, [FN3] should...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention July 6th 1787

    07/06/2011 3:23:12 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 2 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Wealth v. Population in First Branch. Forty-Thousand Clause Sent to Committee. Money Bills. In Convention. Mr. Govr. MORRIS moved to commit so much of the Report as relates to "One member for every 40,000 inhabitants" His view was that they might absolutely fix the number for each State in the first instance; leaving the Legislature at liberty to provide for changes in the relative importance of the States, and for the case of new States. Mr. WILSON 2ded. the motion; but with a view of leaving the Committee under no implied shackles. Mr. GHORUM apprehended great inconveniency [FN1] from fixing...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention July 5th 1787

    07/05/2011 2:50:29 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 4 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Committee Report. First Proposition Postponed. Madison Speech. High Emotion. Morris Speech. Bedford Speech. Dissolution and Foreign Influence. Proportional Representation by Taxes Remitted. In Convention Mr. GERRY delivered in from the Committee appointed on Monday last the following Report. "The Committee to whom was referred the 8th. Resol. of the Report from the Committee of the whole House, and so much of the 7th. as has not been decided on, submit the following Report: That the subsequent propositions be recommended to the Convention on condition that both shall be generally adopted. 1. That in the 1st. branch of the Legislature each...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention July 3rd 1787

    07/03/2011 3:10:43 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 6 replies
    Committee Meets. One per 40,000 in First Branch. Equality of State Suffrage in Second Branch. The grand committee met. Mr. Gerry was chosen chairman. The committee proceeded to consider in what manner they should discharge the business with which they were entrusted. By the proceedings in the convention they were so equally divided on the important question of representation in the two branches, the idea of a concilatory adjustment must have been in contemplation of the house in the appointment of this committee. But still how to effect this salutary purpose was the question. Many of the members, impressed with...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention July 2nd 1787

    07/02/2011 2:54:35 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 3 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Eighth Resolution. G. Morris Speech. Senators for Life. Equal State Suffrage in the Senate. Despair. Committee to Work on 7th & 8th Resolutions. In Convention. On the question for allowing each State one vote in the second branch as moved by Mr. Elseworth, [FN1] Massts. no. Cont. ay. N. Y. ay. N. J. ay. Pa. no. Del. ay. Md. ay. Mr. Jenifer being not present Mr. Martin alone voted Va no. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo. divd. Mr. Houston no. Mr. Baldwin ay. Mr. PINKNEY thought an equality of votes in the 2d. branch inadmissible. At the same...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 30th 1787

    06/30/2011 2:43:42 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 7 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Eighth Resolution. Request Presence of NH. Equal State Suffrage in Second Branch. Wilson Speech. Madison Speech. North v. South. High Emotions. Bedford Speech. Foreign Alliances. In Convention Mr. BREARLY moved that the Presidt. write to the Executive of N. Hamshire, informing it that the business depending before the Convention was of such a nature as to require the immediate attendance of the deputies of that State. In support of his motion he observed that the difficulties of the subject and the diversity of opinions called for all the assistance we could possibly obtain. [it was well understood that the object...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 29th 1787

    06/29/2011 2:03:41 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 9 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Reality of Dissolution. Seventh Resolution. Equal Representation of States in First Branch. Proportional Representation in First Branch. Gerry Speech. Postpone Debate on Seventh. Eighth Resolution. Equal State Suffrage in Second Branch. Ellsworth Speech. In Convention Doctr. JOHNSON. The controversy must be endless whilst Gentlemen differ in the grounds of their arguments; Those on one side considering the States as districts of people composing one political Society; those on the other considering them as so many political societies. The fact is that the States do exist as political Societies, and a Govt. is to be formed for them in their political...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 28th 1787

    06/28/2011 2:40:28 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 10 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Seventh Resolution. Proportional Representation in First Branch. Dissolution. Madison Speech. Equal Representation of States in First Branch. In Convention Mr. L. MARTIN resumed his discourse, contending that the Genl. Govt. ought to be formed for the States, not for individuals: that if the States were to have votes in proportion to their numbers of people, it would be the same thing whether their representatives were chosen by the Legislatures or the people; the smaller States would be equally enslaved; that if the large States have the same interest with the smaller as was urged, there could be no danger in...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 27th 1787

    06/27/2011 2:33:50 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 4 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    In Convention Mr. RUTLIDGE moved to postpone the 6th Resolution, defining the powers of Congs. in order to take up the 7 & 8 which involved the most fundamental points; the rules of suffrage in the 2 branches which was agreed to nem. con. A question being proposed on Resol: 7 [FN1]: declaring that the suffrage in the first branch sd. be according to an equitable ratio. Mr. L. MARTIN contended at great length and with great eagerness that the General Govt. was meant merely to preserve the State Governts.: not to govern individuals: that its powers ought to be...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 26th 1787

    06/26/2011 3:37:17 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 3 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    On the Precipice of Democracy. Madison Speech. Fourth Resolution. Length of Terms. Lifetime? Purpose of Second Branch. Six Year Terms. Senatorial Salaries. Who pays? Minimum Wealth Requirement. Subsequent Office Eligibility. Fifth Resolution, Originating Acts. In Convention The duration of the 2d. branch [FN1] under consideration. Mr. GHORUM moved to fill the blank with "six years," one third of the members to go out every second year. Mr. WILSON 2ded. the motion. Genl. PINKNEY opposed six years in favor of four years. The States he said had different interests. Those of the Southern, and of S. Carolina in particular were different...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 25th 1787

    06/25/2011 2:54:58 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 2 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Fourth Resolution. Superb Pinckney Speech. Parliament. Appointment to Second Branch by State Legislatures. Minimum Age Requirement. Length of Terms. In Convention Resolution 4. [FN1] being taken up. Mr. PINKNEY [FN2] spoke as follows- The efficacy of the System will depend on this article. In order to form a right judgmt. in the case, it will be proper to examine the situation of this Country more accurately than it has yet been done. The people of the U. States are perhaps the most singular of any we are acquainted with. Among them there are fewer distinctions of fortune & less of...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 23rd 1787

    06/23/2011 2:32:12 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 11 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Third Resolution, a Kingdom Divided. First Branch Salaries. Corruption. Subsequent Office Eligibility. In Convention The 3. Resol: resumed. [FN1] On [FN2] Question yesterday postponed by S. Carol: for agreeing to the whole sentence "for allowing an adequate compensation to be paid out of the Treasury of the U. States" Masts. ay. Cont. no. N. Y. no. N. J. ay. Pena. ay Del. no. Md. ay. Va. ay. N. C. no. S. C. no. Geo divided. [FN3] So the question was lost, & the sentence not inserted: Genl. PINKNEY moves to strike out the ineligibility of members of the 1st. branch...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 22nd 1787

    06/22/2011 2:19:34 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 18 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Third Resolution. First Branch Salaries. Minimum Age Requirement. Subsequent Office Eligibility. In Convention The clause in Resol. 3. [FN1] "to receive fixed stipends to be paid out of the Nationl. Treasury" [FN2] considered. Mr. ELSEWORTH, moved to substitute payment by the States out of their own Treasurys: observing that the manners of different States were very different in the Stile of living and in the profits accruing from the exercise of like talents. What would be deemed therefore a reasonable compensation in some States, in others would be very unpopular, and might impede the system of which it made a...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 21st 1787

    06/21/2011 2:43:40 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 7 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Danger from States to National Government. Small v. Large States. Two Branch Legislature. Third Resolution. Popular Election of First Branch. Length of Terms. In Convention Mr. Jonathan Dayton from N. Jersey took his seat. [FN1] [FN3] Docr. JOHNSON. On a comparison of the two plans which had been proposed from Virginia & N. Jersey, it appeared that the peculiarity which characterized the latter was its being calculated to preserve the individuality of the States. The plan from Va. did not profess to destroy this individuality altogether, but was charged with such a tendency. One Gentleman alone (Col. Hamilton) in his...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 20th 1787

    06/20/2011 2:38:06 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 2 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    First and Second Resolutions. Lansing Speech. State or National Supremacy. Mason Speech. Attributes of Federal v. Republican Governments. IN CONVENTION Mr. William Blount from N. Carolina took his seat. 1st. propos: [FN2] of the Report of Come. of the whole [FN3] before the House. Mr. ELSEWORTH 2ded. by Mr. GORHAM, moves to alter it so as to run "that the Government of the United States ought to consist of a supreme legislative, Executive and Judiciary." This alteration he said would drop the word national, and retain the proper title "the United States." He could not admit the doctrine that a...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 19th 1787

    06/19/2011 2:44:46 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 16 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Madison Speech. End of NJ/Patterson Plan. Randolph Plan as Amended. In Committee of the Whole On the Propositions of Mr. Patterson [FN1] The substitute offered yesterday by Mr. Dickenson being rejected by a vote now taken on it; Con. N. Y. N. J. Del. ay. [FN2] Mas. Pa. V. N. C. S. C. Geo. no. [FN3] Mayd. divided. Mr. PATTERSON's plan was again at large before the Committee. Mr. MADISON. Much stress had [FN4] been laid by some gentlemen on the want of power in the Convention to propose any other than a federal plan. To what had been answered...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 18th 1787 (Hamilton Speech)

    06/18/2011 2:37:57 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 12 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ON THE PROPOSITIONS OF Mr. PATTERSON & Mr. RANDOLPH On motion of Mr. DICKINSON to postpone the 1st. Resolution in Mr. Patterson's plan, in order to take up the following viz-"that the Articles of Confederation ought to be revised and amended, so as to render the Government of the U.S. adequate to the exigences, the preservation and the prosperity of the Union" the postponement was agreed to by 10 States, Pen: divided. Mr. HAMILTON, had been hitherto silent on the business before the Convention, partly from respect to others whose superior abilities age & experience...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 16th 1787

    06/16/2011 2:23:27 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 4 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Patterson Plan Debate. Lansing Speech. Federal v. National. Articles as Treaty. Comparison of Plans. Wilson Speech. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE ON [FN1] RESOLUTIONS PROPOSD. BY MR. P. & MR. R Mr. LANSING called for the reading of the 1st. resolution of each plan, which he considered as involving principles directly in contrast; that of Mr. Patterson says he sustains the sovereignty of the respective States, that of Mr. Randolph distroys it: the latter requires a negative on all the laws of the particular States; the former, only certain general powers for the general good. The plan of Mr. R....
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 15th 1787

    06/15/2011 2:36:05 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 4 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    NJ/Patterson Plan. Imposts and Stamp Tax. Regulate Trade. Tax Requisitions. Force to Collect Taxes. Multiple Supreme Executives. Judicial Branch & Jurisdiction. Compel State Compliance. New States. [FN2]Mr. PATTERSON, laid before the Convention the plan which he said several of the deputations wished to be substituted in place of that proposed by Mr. Randolph. After some little discussion of the most proper mode of giving it a fair deliberation it was agreed that it should be referred to a Committee of the whole, and that in order to place the two plans in due comparison, the other should be recommitted. At...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 14th 1787

    06/14/2011 2:47:49 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 7 replies
    Avalone Project ^ | James Madison
    Early Adjournment. Work on more Federal Plan. IN CONVENTION Mr. PATTERSON, observed to the Convention that it was the wish of several deputations, particularly that of N. Jersey, that further time might be allowed them to contemplate the plan reported from the Committee of the Whole, and to digest one purely federal, and contradistinguished from the reported plan. He said they hoped to have such an one ready by tomorrow to be laid before the Convention: And the Convention adjourned that leisure might be given for the purpose.
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 13th 1787

    06/13/2011 2:54:46 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 3 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Supreme Court Jurisdiction. Second branch to appoint Judges. Money bills to originate in first branch. Report of the Committee of the Whole on Randolph Plan. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Resol: 9 [FN1] being resumed. The latter parts of the clause relating to the jurisdiction of the Natil. tribunals, was struck out nem. con in order to leave full room for their organization. Mr. RANDOLPH & Mr. MADISON, then moved the following resolution respecting a National Judiciary, viz "that the jurisdiction of the National Judiciary shall extend to cases, which respect the collection of the national revenue, impeachments of any...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 12th 1787

    06/12/2011 2:59:51 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 7 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Three year terms and minimum age in first branch. Fixed salaries paid by National Government. Dual service in National Legislature and as officer of US. Term limits. Seven year Senatorial terms. No salary for Senators. IN COMMITTEE OF THE [FN1] WHOLE The Question [FN2] taken on Resolution 15, [FN3] to wit, referring the new system to the people of the [FN4] States for ratification it passed in the affirmative: Massts. ay. Cont. no. N. Y. no. N. J. no. Pa. [FN5] ay. Del. divd. Md. divd. Va. ay. N. C. ay. S. C. ay. Geo. ay. [FN6] Mr. SHARMAN &...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 11th 1787

    06/11/2011 2:12:58 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 16 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Topics: Proportional Representation in the House. Representation based on taxes paid. Representation based on population. Slaves, Cattle & Horses. Equality of State Suffrage in the Senate. Proportional Representation in the Senate. Republican Government. Amendment provision. Oaths of office. Ben Franklin speech. Do away with states? MR. ABRAHAM BALDWIN from Georgia took his seat in the committee of the whole. The clause concerning the rule of suffrage in the natl. Legislature postponed on Saturday was resumed. Mr. SHARMAN proposed that the proportion of suffrage in the 1st. branch should be according to the respective numbers of free inhabitants; and that in...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 10th 1787

    06/10/2011 2:49:09 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 5 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Today being Sunday, the Convention did not meet. This is not to say important work was not done. Roger Sherman and some Small State delegates probably met to discuss a compromise, a proportionally based House and equal State representation in the Senate, which will be discussed tomorrow. Despite authoring and nurturing the compromise that saved the Convention and most likely his country, Roger Sherman is one of the most neglected Framers. I call him the Principled Pragmatist. He either signed/attended or helped write the 1774 Declaration of Resolves, the First and Second Congresses, the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation,...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 9th 1787

    06/09/2011 2:42:41 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 29 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Governors Elect National Executive. Senate Suffrage. William Patterson Speech. Small State Revolt. Mr. Luther Martin from Maryland took up his seat in committee of the whole. Mr. GERRY, according to previous notice given by him, moved "that the National Executive should be elected by the Executives of the States whose proportion of votes should be the same with that allowed to the States in the election of the Senate." If the appointmt. should be made by the Natl. Legislature, it would lessen that independence of the Executive which ought to prevail, would give birth to intrigue and corruption between the...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 8th 1787

    06/08/2011 2:44:19 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 4 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Large State/Small State Rift. National Legislative Veto of State Laws. National Executive. Proportional Representation in First Branch. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE On a reconsideration of the clause giving the Natl. Legislature a negative on such laws of the States as might be contrary to the articles of Union, or Treaties with foreign nations, Mr. PINKNEY moved "that the National Legislature shd. have authority to negative all laws which they shd. judge to be improper." He urged that such a universality of the power was indispensably necessary to render it effectual; that the States must be kept in due subordination...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 7th 1787

    06/07/2011 2:26:44 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 6 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    State Legislatures Appoint Senators. Proportional, Popular Election to Senate. State Governor Election of National Executive. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Mr. PINKNEY according to notice moved to reconsider the clause respecting the negative on State laws, which was agreed to and tomorrow for fixed [FN2] the purpose. The Clause providing for ye. appointment of the 2d. branch of the national Legislature, having lain blank since the last vote on the mode of electing it, to wit, by the 1st. branch, Mr. DICKINSON now moved "that the members of the 2d. branch ought to be chosen by the individual Legislatures." Mr....
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 6th 1787

    06/06/2011 2:42:09 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 3 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Democratic v. Republican Principles. State Legislatures Elect First Branch. Most Excellent Madison Speech. Council of Revision. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE Mr. PINKNEY according to previous notice & rule obtained, moved "that the first branch of the national Legislature be elected by the State Legislatures, and not by the people." contending that the people were less fit Judges in such a case, and that the Legislatures would be less likely to promote the adoption of the new Government, if they were to be excluded from all share in it. Mr. RUTLIDGE 2ded. the motion. Mr. GERRY. Much depends on the...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 5th 1787

    06/05/2011 2:57:02 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 5 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    How Many Courts? National Legislature to Appoint Judges? Judicial Salaries. Admission of new States. Continuation of Articles until Constitutional Government. Amending the Constitution. Oaths to support Union. Submission of Constitution to Congress. Electors to first branch of Legislature. Inferior Tribunals IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE GOVERNOR Livingston from [FN1] New Jersey, took his seat. The words, "one or more" were struck out before "inferior tribunals" as an amendment to the last clause of Resoln. Th [FN2] The Clause-"that the National Judiciary be chose by the National Legislature," being under consideration. Mr. WILSON opposed the appointmt. of Judges by the National...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 4th 1787

    06/04/2011 2:51:37 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 4 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    A Single Supreme Executive. Council of Revision. Elbridge Gerry & Judicial Review. Executive Veto Subject to Legislative Override. Mason Speech. Two Thirds Override. Establishment of Supreme Judiciary. IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE The Question was resumed on motion of Mr. PINKNEY 2ded. by [FN2] WILSON, "shall the blank for the number of the Executive be filled with a single person?" Mr. WILSON was in favor of the motion. It had been opposed by the gentleman from Virga. [Mr. Randolph] but the arguments used had not convinced him. He observed that the objections of Mr. R. were levelled not so much...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 2nd 1787

    06/02/2011 2:54:16 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 15 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    National Legislature Appointment of Executive. Franklin Speech. Election by Electors from New Districts. Seven Year Executive Term. Expenses yes, Salary no. Removable by Majority of State Legislatures. Ineligible for Reelection. Removable for Malpractice or Neglect. One v. Multiple Executives. William Saml. Johnson from Connecticut, Daniel of St. Thomas Jennifer, from Maryd. & John Lansing Jr. from N. York, took their seats. It was movd. & 2ded. to postpone ye Resol: of Mr. Randolph respecting the Executive, in order to take up the 2d. branch of the Legislature; which being negatived by Mas: Con: Del: Virg: N. C. S. C. Geo:...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention June 1st 1787

    06/01/2011 2:47:46 AM PDT · by Jacquerie
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    House of Reps Appoint Executive. How Many? Shy Delegates. Fear of Monarchy. James Wilson & Popularly Elected Executives. William Houston from Georgia took his seat. The Committee of the whole proceeded to Resolution 7. [FN1] "that a national Executive be instituted, to be chosen by the national Legislature-for the term of ------ years &c to be ineligible thereafter, to possess the executive powers of Congress &c." Mr. PINKNEY was for a vigorous Executive but was afraid the Executive powers of the existing Congress might extend to peace & war &c., which would render the Executive a monarchy, of the worst...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention May 31st 1787

    05/31/2011 2:45:02 AM PDT · by Jacquerie
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    House of Representatives. How to Elect a Senate. Enumerated Powers. Negative Over State Laws. Too Much Too Soon. Enforcement With Armed Forces. William Pierce from Georgia took his seat. In Committee of the whole on Mr. Randolph's propositions. The 3d. Resolution "that the national Legislature ought to consist of two branches" was agreed to without debate or dissent, except that of Pennsylvania, given probably from complaisance to Docr. Franklin who was understood to be partial to a single House of Legislation. Resol: 4. [FN2] first clause "that the members of the first branch of the National Legislature ought to be...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention May 30th 1787

    05/30/2011 2:39:52 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 1 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Randolph/Virginia Plan. No States. Convention Legitimacy. Three Branches. Population v. Wealth. DE Threatens to Walk. Roger Sherman (from Connecticut) took his seat. The House went into Committee of the Whole on the State of the Union. Mr. Gorham was elected to the Chair by Ballot. The propositions of Mr. RANDOLPH which had been referred to the Committee being taken up. He moved on the suggestion of Mr. G. Morris, that the first of his propositions to wit "Resolved that the articles of Confederation ought to be so corrected & enlarged, as to accomplish the objects proposed by their institution; namely,...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention May 29th 1787

    05/29/2011 2:22:12 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 1 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Convention Minutes. Objects of Government. Confederation Defects. Randolph/Virginia Plan. Pinckney Plan. John DICKINSON, and Elbridge Gerry, the former from Delaware, the latter from Massts. took their seats. The following rules were added, on the report of Mr. Wythe from the Committee [see the Journal]- [FN2] Additional rules. [see preceding page] [FN2] That no member be absent from the House, so as to interrupt the representation of the State, without leave. That Committees do not sit whilst the House shall be or ought to be, sitting. That no copy be taken of any entry on the journal during the sitting of...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention May 28th 1787

    05/28/2011 4:10:09 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 3 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    Political Skin. Parliamentary Rules. Fault Lines. [FN1][FN2]From Massts. Nat: Gorham & Caleb Strong. From Connecticut Oliver Elseworth. From Delaware, Gunning Bedford. From Maryland James McHenry. From Penna. B. Franklin, George Clymer, Ths. Mifflin & Jared Ingersol took their seats. Mr. WYTHE from the Committee for preparing rules made a report which employed the deliberations of this day. Mr. KING objected to one of the rules in the Report authorising any member to call for the yeas & nays and have them entered on the minutes. He urged that as the acts of the Convention were not to bind the Constituents,...
  • Journal of the Federal Convention May 25th, 1787

    05/25/2011 2:41:13 AM PDT · by Jacquerie · 9 replies
    Avalon Project ^ | James Madison
    As one would expect at the world’s premier conservative forum, Freepers regularly refer to our Constitution and original intent of our Framers. While the Constitution ultimately means what it says as defined by the 18th century definitions of its words, there is much to learn from the Convention. From the various ideas rejected and accepted, prejudices and political give and take, it is possible to definitively shoot down some modern Leftist constructs that endanger our republic. Judges claim certain clauses have no discernable meaning outside of what they make up and blithely declare them to mean. Even among conservatives one...
  • FReeper Book Club: The Debate over the Constitution, Afterword and Suggested Reading

    03/09/2011 11:55:08 AM PST · by Publius · 35 replies
    A Publius/Billthedrill Essay | 9 March 2011 | Publius & Billthedrill
    AfterwordThe flurry of newspaper pieces that began in October 1787 concluded some ten months later with a piece in which the reader senses as much exhaustion from Hamilton’s pen as exhilaration, as much trepidation as triumph. It turned out to be quite a series of papers: 85 in total. Taken along with papers written by the opposition, whose somewhat misleading name of “anti-Federalist” came about in part through the machinations of Hamilton himself, they compose a window on the creation of a government that was unique in history up to its time. The debates at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia...
  • FReeper Book Club: The Debate over the Constitution, Federalist #85

    03/03/2011 3:37:35 PM PST · by Publius · 27 replies · 1+ views
    A Publius/Billthedrill Essay | 3 February 2011 | Publius & Billthedrill
    Hamilton Rests His CaseOn 26 July, New York ratified the Constitution, which must have caused Hamilton no end of satisfaction and elation. His work done, the master lawyer summarizes his case to his jury, the people of New York. Federalist #85Conclusion Alexander Hamilton, 13 August 1788 1 To the People of the State of New York: *** 2 According to the formal division of the subject of these papers announced in my first number, there would appear still to remain for discussion two points: “the analogy of the proposed government to your own state constitution,” and “the additional security which...
  • FReeper Book Club: The Debate over the Constitution, Federalist #84

    02/28/2011 7:58:13 AM PST · by Publius · 14 replies
    A Publius/Billthedrill Essay | 28 February 2011 | Publius & Billthedrill
    Hamilton Answers a Group of Miscellaneous ObjectionsHamilton tackles issues of the lack of a bill of rights, the distance of the national capital from the rest of the states and the issue of increased expenses. Federalist #84Answering Miscellaneous Objections Alexander Hamilton, 16 July 1788 1 To the People of the State of New York: *** 2 In the course of the foregoing review of the Constitution, I have taken notice of and endeavored to answer most of the objections which have appeared against it. 3 There, however, remain a few which either did not fall naturally under any particular head...