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The world of stem cell research was set reeling two years ago when its most successful practitioner, the Korean scientist Hwang Woo Suk, was found to have fabricated much of his work. But according to a new post-mortem of his research, he did achieve a scientific first, though not the one he claimed. Dr. Hwang said he had derived embryonic stem cells from the adult cells of a patient, but the claim was discredited after parts of his research were found to have been faked. A team of Boston scientists has now re-examined stocks of Dr. Hwang’s purported embryonic stem...

Seoul, South Korea (LifeNews.com) -- Now that considerable time has passed since Hwang Woo-suk was front page headlines across the world he is picking up his efforts to revive his reputation. Never mind that Hwang published fake scientific studies, pressured women for their eggs for research, bought off local media and may have embezzled millions. Just one day after President Bush vetoed a bill that would have forced taxpayers to fund embryonic stem cell research, the Associated Press released an article featuring several interviews with Hwang's associates. The embattled researcher can no longer conduct embryonic stem cell research in his...

SEOUL (Reuters) - Disgraced South Korean scientist Hwang Woo-suk has resumed his work on animal cloning, but will not restart research on human embryonic stem cells, his lawyer said on Thursday. Hwang is standing trial on charges of fraud and embezzlement for his team's research on stem cells. He left his lab at Seoul National University in December after a panel there said his team fabricated key data in papers once hailed as landmarks but since debunked. "Hwang has opened a biological research facility in southern Seoul earlier this month and is working with about 30 of his former lab...

Seoul, South Korea (LifeNews.com) -- Disgraced scientist Hwang Woo-suk, whose team became an international laughingstock after they faked their entirety of their embryonic stem cell research, appeared in court on Monday in a trial about charges that he embezzled public and private research funds. Hwang admitted he spent more than one million in attempting to clone a mammoth. Hwang was indicted in May by South Korean government prosecutors who say that Hwang misspent public and private dollars intended for research. On Monday, Hwang admitted he spent part of the money, some $1.05 million in failed attempts to clone mammoths, extinct...

SEOUL, South Korea - A discredited South Korean cloning scientist admitted in court Tuesday to ordering subordinates to falsify stem cell data for a paper in a scientific journal, but he insisted he should not be the only one blamed in the scandal. Hwang Woo-suk, who falsely claimed breakthroughs in creating stem cells from cloned human embryos, testified at the second hearing of a trial in which he is accused of accepting funds under false pretenses, embezzlement and violating the bioethics law by purchasing eggs for research. For a 2005 paper in the journal Science, Hwang acknowledged that he told...

SEOUL, South Korea - Disgraced cloning scientist Hwang Woo-suk went on trial Tuesday on charges of fraud and embezzlement in a scandal over faked stem cell research that undermined global hopes of dramatic new treatments for incurable diseases. Hwang was indicted last month for allegedly accepting $2.1 million in private donations based on the outcome of the falsified research and embezzling about $831,000 in private and government research funds. Hwang also was accused of buying human eggs for research, a violation of the country's bioethics law. If convicted, the 52-year-old scientist faces at least three years in prison. Hwang is...

Disgraced cloning expert Hwang Woo-suk has been indicted on charges of fraud, embezzlement and breach of a bioethics law in the stem cell fabrication scandal, the prosecution announced yesterday. Concluding a five-month-long investigation, prosecutors confirmed that the former Seoul National University veterinary professor fabricated data for his now discredited research papers that originally claimed to have cloned human stem cells and developed patient-specific stem cell lines. However, it appears that Hwang was also deceived by one of his researchers, Kim Sun-jong, who smuggled invitro-fertilized stem cells from a fertility clinic into the lab to make it look like he had...

S. Korean Cloning Scientist Hwang Indicted By JAE-SOON CHANG, Associated Press Writer Fri May 12, 1:43 AM ET South Korean prosecutors indicted disgraced cloning scientist Hwang Woo-suk Friday on charges of fraud, embezzlement and bioethics violations in a scandal over faked stem cell research that shook the scientific community. Five members of Hwang's research team were indicted on lesser charges, prosecution official Lee In-kyu said in a nationally televised news conference. Hwang was hailed worldwide as a stem cell pioneer and treated as a national hero until investigations late last year showed that he had fabricated key data, which had...

SEOUL, South Korea - Disgraced cloning scientist Hwang Woo-suk was questioned Friday by South Korean government authorities for the first time since the scandal erupted over his falsified stem cell research. The Board of Audit and Inspection questioned Hwang about his possible misappropriation of state funds, spokesman Park Jin-kyu said. Hwang received $42.2 million in government funds for his research as well as $4.35 million from private foundations, according to the board. Hwang already has been questioned by a Seoul National University panel, which has accused the professor of veterinarian medicine of fabricating results published in landmark 2004 and 2005...

In a pair of highly publicized articles, the South Korean scientist Hwang Woo-Suk claimed to have produced human embryos by cloning and to have generated from them several viable stem-cell lines. Hwang's work was heralded by supporters of embryonic-stem-cell research as a great step toward the goal of using embryonic stem cells to treat diseases and afflictions. What had them excited was Hwang's claim to have produced stem cells that match the DNA of the somatic cell's donor, thus defeating (or substantially diminishing) the number-one problem faced in transplant procedures, namely, the rejection by the body's immune system of genetically...

PARIS - South Korean cloning expert Hwang Woo-suk, a science superstar disgraced when his pioneering stem cell research was unmasked as a fraud, has a new job offer from a UFO cult that says it has produced six human clones. Clonaid, a company linked to a group that believes humans were cloned from prehistoric alien visitors to Earth, said it had offered him a post in one of its laboratories.

SEOUL (Reuters) - The president of Seoul National University stripped a title from a disgraced researcher because of science fraud and called for six others to be punished who were part of the same cloning scandal, the school said on Friday. Once heralded and now scorned, scientist Hwang Woo-suk lost his title as "chair-professor." Hwang had already resigned his post at the university on December 23 when an investigation panel said in an interim report that he bore major responsibility for deliberately fabricated data in two landmark papers on embryonic stem cells. Seoul National University President Chung Un-chan said the...

 GENEVA, January 17, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The Korean newspaper Chosun Ilbo is reporting that a “US biotech firm” has offered the disgraced Korean cloning researcher, Dr. Hwang Woo Suk, a job. The firm, Clonaid, has been discredited as a sham associated with “Raelians”, a UFO cult that claims humans were planted on Earth by benevolent extraterrestrials.  The cult’s spokesman, Brigitte Boisselier, writing on Clonaid’s website, accuses “religious powers,” for Hwang’s downfall saying it was engineered and that his research results were tampered with. “We also believe that…he has been discredited as he wasn't in line with what the political and...

The U.S. biotech firm Clonaid has sprung to the rescue of the embattled cloning scientist Hwang Woo-sook with an offer to join a research partnership at its secret research facility. Clonaid was founded by the Raelian Movement, a cult-like religious group that maintains humans were created by aliens and claims to have cloned a human being. The company is represented by French scientist Dr. Brigitte Boisselier. A press release from the company on Monday said Boisselier has written to Hwang to outline the proposal. Boisselier said she believed Hwang’s discoveries to be original and that groups opposing stem cell research...

SEOUL, South Korea - Disgraced researcher Hwang Woo-suk asked forgiveness Thursday from fellow South Koreans for his fraudulent claims of human stem cell breakthroughs, but blamed the scandal on junior researchers who he said deceived him. Hwang, in his first public appearance in nearly three weeks, continued to insist he has the technology to use cloning to create human embryonic stem cells genetically matched to patients — saying he could do so in six months if he had access to enough human eggs. Seoul National University, where Hwang is a professor, issued investigation results Tuesday saying he fabricated landmark claims...

SEOUL, Wednesday, Jan. 11 - The downfall of Hwang Woo Suk, the South Korean scientist vilified for faking his papers, holds a lesson for developing countries rushing into cutting-edge life science: Do not try to clone human cells the way you churn out cars and computer chips, experts in science regulation said Wednesday. In a strategy envied by other developing countries, South Korea has become the world's 11th-largest economy by focusing national support on target industries and producing quick results. It is a recipe that enabled the country to challenge Japanese supremacy in semiconductors and shipbuilding. In the past three...

SEOUL, South Korea - Disgraced scientist Hwang Woo-suk asked his fellow South Koreans for forgiveness Thursday at his first public appearance in almost three weeks, saying he takes full responsibility for his fraudulent stem cell research. "I ask for your forgiveness," Hwang told a nationally televised press conference in Seoul. "I feel so miserable that it's difficult even to say sorry." Seoul National University, where Hwang is a professor, on Tuesday issued a final report that he fabricated landmark published claims in 2004 and 2005 to have created the world's first human embryonic stem stells from cloned embryos. "The use...

Junior scientist Park Eul-soon suffered the most personally devastating blunder of her career when in 2003 she accidentally spilled a dish of human eggs while conducting experiments in the South Korean lab of then-clone king Hwang Woo-suk. For that mishap, Hwang coerced Park, a subordinate Ph.D. student in her mid-20s, to replace the lost eggs with her own. After first saying no, Park relented for fear Hwang would otherwise exclude her from academic recognition for her work. Afterward, according to Korean MBC TV, Park morbidly "went back to Hwang's laboratory and conducted the cloning experiment on the eggs that...

WASHINGTON--Leon Kass is willing--reluctantly willing--to indulge a request. I have asked him to refresh our interview of several weeks ago by reflecting on the case of Hwang Woo Suk, the internationally celebrated South Korean researcher who recently admitted to fabricating cloned stem cells. Dr. Kass thinks that a decennial White House conference on aging might make for an equally timely news peg. Health and longevity; dementia and death; euthanasia and living wills; performance enhancement and life-prolonging genetic manipulations--these are the subjects that really engage the mind of this 66-year-old physician and ethicist (and former philosophy professor of mine). As for...

Korean TV station MBC Tuesday dealt another blow to the country’s cloning scientist Hwang Woo-suk claiming he had forced his junior researcher to contribute eggs by using authorship as a carrot. MBC made the claim in its investigative program, ``PD Notebook,’’ which resumed after a four-week suspension caused by its aggressive position on Hwang’s controversial stem cell research. ``Hwang’s team used more than 1,600 eggs obtained from a total of 86 donors for their stem cell papers featured by the U.S. journal Science in 2004 and 2005,’’ MBC producer Choi Seung-ho said. Hwang claimed to have harvested the first-ever...

Disgraced scientist Hwang Woo-suk defended himself insisting he has the technology to produce patient-specific stem cells and that he had been the victim of a "long-planned" conspiracy. An investigation panel at Seoul National University has concluded Hwang did not produce any embryonic stem cells individually tailored to patients as claimed in a paper published in the journal Science last year. Hwang stood by his work in an interview with a local Buddhist newspaper Saturday. "I definitely have the source technology to produce tailored embryonic stem cells," Hwang was quoted as saying in Beopbo. "I can replicate the process any time."...

SEOUL, South Korea, Dec. 29 - Hwang Woo Suk, South Korea's disgraced star scientist, could present no evidence to corroborate his landmark claim that he had cloned human embryos and extracted from them stem cells that genetically match patients, a university panel said today. The announcement by the panel, from Seoul National University where Dr. Hwang did his research, suggested that he did not just grossly exaggerate his work in an article published in the journal Science in June, but fabricated the entire paper. "So far we could not find any stem cells regarding Dr. Hwang's 2005 paper that genetically...

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The stunning fall of South Korea's stem cell hero Hwang Woo-Suk set the stage for a ferocious new battle in the highly politicised debate over cloning in the United States. Hwang's disgrace shocked stem cell research advocates and the anti-cloning lobby alike, and some observers say his tailspin could at least slow the race for breakthroughs in the lucrative bio-technology industry. Investigators at Seoul National University said Thursday there was no evidence to prove Hwang's claim to have cloned human embryos and extracted stem cells from them that genetically match patients. His supposed breakthrough was so important...

SEOUL (Reuters) - Fame, heaps of government cash and an idea to expand the horizons of science may have contributed to the large-scale fraud at a Seoul laboratory that has shocked the academic world and many South Koreans, experts said on Friday. A South Korean panel dealt a devastating blow to discredited scientist Hwang Woo-suk on Thursday, concluding that his once-celebrated team had provided no data to prove they had produced tailored embryonic stem cells. Their 2005 paper on producing such stem cells was one of the most acclaimed scientific works of the year. It helped solidify Hwang's status as...

SEOUL, South Korea - An already disgraced scientist lied about all of the stem cell lines he claimed were matched to different patients through cloning, investigating researchers said in a new jolt to the shattered reputation of Hwang Woo-suk. Thursday's announcement all but ends the fraud investigation into one of three major cloning breakthroughs claimed by the one-time scientific superstar and national hero. Probes of Hwang's two other groundbreaking experiments are still under way at Seoul National University where he worked before resigning in disgrace last week. The latest news was one more disappointment to the scientific world, which had...

SEOUL, Dec. 27 (UPI) -- Two members of a stem-cell research team allegedly gave $30,000 to a former member of the group to retract comments about fabricating research data. Professors Ahn Cu-rie and Yoon Hyun-soo, both of Seoul National University, allegedly gave the money to Kim Seon-jong during a trip this month to the University of Pittsburgh, where he had been working since he left the South Korean research team, the Chosun Ilbo newspaper reported Tuesday. University officials say research by Professor Hwang Woo-suk was fabricated. Hwang said he would resign from the university but did not admit his work,...

SEOUL - Patient-specific stem cells that disgraced South Korean cloning expert Hwang Woo-Suk said he had produced this year do not exist, investigators have concluded, according to a news report Monday. A panel at Seoul National University, which allowed DNA tests to be conducted to verify Hwang's research published in the US journal Science, said there was no evidence to support the existence of tailored stem cells, Yonhap news agency said. "There were no such patient-specific stem cells as in the 2005 paper of Science," it said, without naming its source, while adding the panel had been analyzing the DNA...

The unwelcome but indisputable revelation that some of the most exciting biomedical claims of the past few years were the product of scientific fraud settled like a cloud over the American scientific community yesterday. Stem cell researchers said they were depressed and discouraged to learn that an investigatory panel at Seoul National University had found that most of the precious human embryonic stem cell colonies that its scientists had touted were fakes. The star scientist at the heart of that deception -- Hwang Woo Suk -- resigned yesterday from his university post, his meteoric rise to fame coming to a...

SEOUL, South Korea - While South Korea's most famous scientist was resigning Friday in disgrace after his university said he faked stem cell research, one of his greatest purported breakthroughs was romping in the snow. Snuppy, an Afghan hound that researcher Hwang Woo-suk said he cloned, was shown in photographs by South Korean media being led by a handler on a leash through the grounds of Seoul National University's animal hospital, where the dog is now kept. "Lonely Snuppy after professor Hwang leaves," Yonhap news agency wrote in one photo caption. Hwang unveiled Snuppy — named for Seoul National University...

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Scientists fretted Friday that a spectacular cloning fraud that hid in plain sight has set back legitimate stem cell work around the world. Cloning experts and stem cell scientists said research in the potentially revolutionary field of regenerative medicine will continue unabated. But they said public confidence in their work had been weakened by a sham branded by experts as the most visible case of scientific fraud they could recall. Scientists also struggled to explain how they didn't earlier catch the charismatic South Korean veterinarian's claim in a Science paper published in May that he cloned...

The South Korean university that once boasted of its relationship with stem cell researcher Hwang Woo-suck has now condemned him for grave misconduct. University investigators say the researcher falsified his research results, and Dr. Hwang has resigned in disgrace.Ro Jung-hye, chief of the Seoul National University's research office, said Friday that Dr. Hwang faked most of his reasearch results, which were hailed as groundbreaking when first announced.Ms. Roe says Dr. Hwang has committed major misconduct, which undermines the fundamentals of science.

SEOUL, South Korea - South Korean researcher Hwang Woo-suk faked results of at least nine of 11 stem-cell lines he claimed to have created, a deliberate deception that has undermined the credibility of science, his university said Friday. The announcement by Seoul National University of results so far in its investigation into Hwang's work were the first confirmation of allegations that have cast a shadow over his entire list of breakthroughs in cloning and stem-cell technology. "This kind of error is a grave act that damages the foundation of science," the panel said. In a May paper in the journal...

SEOUL (Reuters) - The results of a landmark 2005 paper on producing tailored embryonic stem cells were intentionally fabricated, a South Korean investigation panel said on Friday. The nine-member panel from Seoul National University has been examining the work of stem-cell scientist Hwang Woo-suk, who faces charges from collaborators that key findings in their paper on producing tailored embryonic stem cells were fabricated. The panel made the announcement at a televised news conference.

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - In a further blow to the credibility of the South Korean researcher who claimed to be the first to clone a human embryo, the journal Science said Tuesday it's now investigating a 2004 study it published that first brought Hwang Woo-suk to prominence. At issue are two vital photographs that Hwang used to illustrate his breakthrough claim. They appear identical to photos published previously in another journal on an unrelated topic. The latest allegation adds to a long list of charges leveled against the fallen "cloning king" in the past month. Hwang maintains his central findings,...

The South Korean scandal that shook the world of science last week is just one sign of a global explosion in research that is outstripping the mechanisms meant to guard against error and fraud. Experts say the problem is only getting worse, as research projects, and the journals that publish the findings, soar. Science is often said to bar dishonesty and bad research with a triple safety net. The first is peer review, in which experts advise governments about what research to finance. The second is the referee system, which has journals ask reviewers to judge if manuscripts merit publication....

SEOUL, South Korea - A panel questioned stem cell researcher Hwang Woo-suk, sealed off his office and secured materials in his laboratory Sunday as it began a probe of allegations he falsified embryonic stem cells that he said he had created in a scientific breakthrough. Seoul National University began the investigation after Hwang acknowledged there were "fatal errors" in a May article in the journal Science claiming that he and other researchers cloned human embryos and created 11 stem cell lines that genetically matched certain patients. Scientists hope to use such "therapeutic cloning" someday to create tissue for transplant into...

As a South Korean scientist defends against mounting accusations that he falsified evidence in a breakthrough stem cell study, researchers in California said the controversy has caused significant damage to a promising and fledgling field. Doubts about Hwang Woo-suk's claims that he cloned human cells to create embryonic stem cells have made scientists wonder whether the prospect might remain elusive for years. Researchers and doctors hope to use this process to genetically tailor stem cells for patients suffering from such diseases as Parkinson's, diabetes and multiple sclerosis. "It's a black eye on the whole world of science," Richard Murphy, president...

<p>Before confessing last week to ethical lapses in his research, South Korean stem-cell pioneer Dr. Hwang Woo Suk had enjoyed god-like status in his native land.</p> <p>The veterinarian and Seoul National University professor had made international headlines in 2004 when his team was the first to harvest stem cells from cloned human embryos. Since then, the South Korean government had granted him the official title of “Supreme Scientist,” Korean Air officials had dubbed him a “national treasure” deserving of free passage on its flights for a decade, and his online fan club had attracted some 15,000 members.</p>

Stem Cell Shenanigans Cloning Research Plagued by Bald Ethical Lapses SEOUL, South Korea, DEC. 17, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Controversy over research methods in South Korea has shed light on some dubious practices in the race to promote human cloning and research with embryonic stem cells. Last spring a team of researchers, led by Woo Suk Hwang of Seoul National University, triumphantly announced the cloning of human embryos, from which they extracted stem cells, the New York Times reported May 20. The results of the research were published in the journal Science. The method they used is often referred to as therapeutic...

Associated Press SEOUL, South Korea – South Korea's best known scientist said today he stands by his breakthrough stem cell research despite a barrage of fraud allegations, and vowed to prove the findings within days. But Hwang Woo-suk apologized for "fatal errors and loopholes in reporting the scientific accomplishment" and said he has asked that the scientific article outlining his research be withdrawn. He gave no details of the errors. The paper, published in May by the journal Science, purported to show how Hwang's team used cloning to custom-make embryonic stem cells for 11 patients, raising hopes of treatment for...

SEOUL, South Korea - A doctor who provided human eggs for research by cloning pioneer Hwang Woo-suk said in a Thursday broadcast that the South Korean scientist admitted that most of the stem cells produced for a key research paper were faked. Roh Sung-il, chairman of the board at Mizmedi Hospital, told KBS television that Hwang had agreed to ask the journal Science to withdraw the paper, published in June to international acclaim. Roh was one of the co-authors of the article that detailed how individual stem cell colonies were created for 11 patients through cloning. More at the link...

SEOUL, South Korea, Dec. 15 - Hwang Woo Suk, the scientist who stunned the world by announcing breakthroughs in stem cell and cloning research, faked a landmark research paper, one of his South Korean co-authors said today in television and newspaper interviews. Dr. Hwang and his aides, who had vehemently defended the paper published in the journal Science in June, were not immediately available for comment on the assertion by Roh Sung Il, , one of Dr. Hwang's 24 co-authors for the June paper, that the scientific finding was falsified. Mr. Roh, the administrator of MizMedi Hospital in Seoul, told...

SEOUL, South Korea - A doctor who provided human eggs for research by cloning pioneer Hwang Woo-suk said in a broadcast Thursday that the South Korean scientist admitted that most of the stem cells produced for a key research paper were faked. Roh Sung-il, chairman of the board at Mizmedi Hospital, told KBS television that Hwang had agreed to ask the journal Science to withdraw the paper, published in June to international acclaim. Roh was one of the co-authors of the article that detailed how individual stem cell colonies were created for 11 patients through cloning. Roh also told MBC...

SEOUL, Dec 5 (Reuters) - South Korean researchers led by Hwang Woo-suk of Seoul National University are at the forefront of stem cell research. In May, their study on using tissue from patients to grow stem cells answered a promise that could one day provide human tissue and organs to cure terminal illnesses. Hwang apologised on Nov. 24 for ethical lapses in his work. Two junior women researchers donated their eggs for the team's work, a practice which has been seen as an ethical violation because research associates could feel they were coerced into making such donations. Following is some...

A new round of criticism has broken out in South Korea over the accuracy of a recent article that reported a striking advance in human stem cell research. In the June 17 article, Hwang Woo Suk, a veterinary researcher at Seoul National University, reported that he had developed embryonic stem cell colonies from 11 patients. The article, published in the journal Science, was hailed as a major step toward the goal of treating patients suffering from many serious diseases with their own, regenerated tissues. But Dr. Hwang's research, though praised by the South Korean government, faces mounting criticism from some...

In a shocking breach of medical ethics, the leading stem-cell and cloning researcher in South Korea admitted last week that he used eggs donated by subordinates in his work. According to Nature magazine, the junior researcher “felt obliged to donate after making mistakes early in the experiment that wasted eggs and set the team back by months.” This gross abuse of position and power is a lapse that Concerned Women for America (CWA) has warned could happen, and the case demonstrates growing concerns about the ethics of research involving human cloning. Hwang became a sensation in South Korea, a...

Buying eggs is OK, Lying is not. Woo-Suk Hwang, the South Korean stem cell pioneer resigned yesterday as head of the World Stem Cell Hub collaboration. The reason for his resignation is that Hwang's lab used eggs donated by two of his junior research scientists. In addition, Hwang discovered that other eggs used in the research were not donated, but had been purchased by another collaborator. In 2004, Hwang achieved the breakthrough of creating the first cloned human embryos and deriving stem cells from them. This advance is a step toward the day when researchers can create transplantable cells and...

Stem-Cell Scientist Admits Paying Women for Eggs "I made a difficult decision hoping that it would help pave the way for a breakthrough in fulfilling one of humankind's biggest dreams, which is to find remedies for hard-to-cure diseases," said Roh Sung Il, head of Miz Medi Hospital in Seoul, fighting back tears. Roh's transactions took place before South Korea adopted its first bioethics law in January banning a financial reward for egg donors. South Korea's groundbreaking stem-cell research program was plunged deeper into an ethics controversy on Monday, with a scientist acknowledging that he had paid 20 women for contributing...

Embryo cloning requires human eggs, which are typically donated by women in a process that requires a month-long series of hormone injections followed by a minor but not risk-free surgical procedure. Because of the modest but real health risks involved, researchers who perform the procedure are required to get informed consent from donors and fulfill other ethics requirements. For many months after Hwang's 2004 publication, rumors had spread in scientific circles that the eggs Hwang used to achieve that landmark result had been taken from a junior scientist in his lab. That situation, if true, would be in violation of...

The Roman Catholic Church in South Korea said Wednesday it will donate millions of dollars for research into adult stem cells, supported by critics of embryonic stem cell projects as a more humane alternative.The Archdiocese of Seoul will provide 10 billion won to a committee that will support adult stem cell research.Most of the funds will come from church coffers, with the remainder raised through donations, said Bishop Yeom Su-jeong, head of the committee."We plan to devote ourselves to saving human dignity above everything else ... and raise awareness of respecting lives," Yeom said.South Korea has been embroiled in debates...