HOME/ABOUT  Prayer  SCOTUS  ProLife  BangList  Aliens  StatesRights  ConventionOfStates  WOT  HomosexualAgenda  GlobalWarming  Corruption  Taxes  Congress  Fraud  MediaBias  GovtAbuse  Tyranny  Obama  ObamaCare  Elections  Polls  Debates  Trump  Cruz  Kasich  OPSEC  Benghazi  InfoSec  BigBrother  IRS  Scandals  TalkRadio  TeaParty  FreeperBookClub  HTMLSandbox  FReeperEd  FReepathon  CopyrightList  Copyright/DMCA Notice 

Please keep those donations coming in, folks. Our 2nd quarter FReepathon is off to a great start and we have a chance of getting 'er done early! Thank you all very much!!

Or by mail to: Free Republic, LLC - PO Box 9771 - Fresno, CA 93794
Free Republic 2nd Quarter Fundraising Target: $88,000 Receipts & Pledges to-date: $39,804
Woo hoo!! And the first 45% is in!! Thank you all very much!! God bless.

Keyword: samesexdivorce

Brevity: Headers | « Text »
  • Same-sex couple in Mississippi goes to court to seek divorce

    07/03/2015 12:26:38 PM PDT · by Olog-hai · 26 replies
    Associated Press ^ | Jul 3, 2015 2:45 PM EDT | Jack Elliott Jr.
    Mississippi Attorney General Jim Hood has asked the state Supreme Court to allow a lesbian couple to seek a divorce. Hood sided Thursday with a similar request filed by the attorney for Lauren Czekala-Chatham, who argued a U.S. Supreme Court ruling on June 26 requires all states to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples and to recognize same-sex marriages validly performed in other states. That was key to Chatham’s arguments as she seeks a divorce from Dana Ann Melancon. They were married in California in 2008. “That’s awesome,” Czekala-Chatham told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. “I can get...
  • A casualty of love: the daughter of two moms speaks out

    12/30/2014 8:11:18 AM PST · by NetAddicted · 65 replies
    AskTheBigot ^ | 12/19/2014 | Meg
    A Casualty of Love: the daughter of two moms speaks out. (Guest Post) Askme / 2 weeks ago I was raised by my biological mother and her same-sex partner. I have only a few fuzzy memories of my father: a phone call here and there, his deep and unfamiliar voice wishing me a happy birthday, and a dim picture of the way the furniture had been arranged in his house. I have less than a handful of pictures of him. My mom and dad were married for a short time but she left him when I was too young to...
  • First Oenly Gay Bishop Files for Divorce (25 Years)

    05/04/2014 2:30:35 PM PDT · by nickcarraway · 30 replies
    Gene Robinson made headlines in 2003 as the first openly gay Anglican bishop. Eleven years later, the Episcopalian has announced that he is filing for divorce from his partner of 25 years. In a post published by the Daily Beast, Robinson explained the situation. Recently, my partner and husband of 25-plus years and I decided to get divorced. While the details of our situation will remain appropriately private, I am seeking to be as open and honest in the midst of this decision as I have been in other dramatic moments of my life—coming out in 1986, falling in love,...
  • Texas' ban on gay marriage ruled unconstitutional

    02/26/2014 11:34:21 AM PST · by Snickering Hound · 119 replies
    SAN ANTONIO — A federal judge in San Antonio has declared Texas' ban on gay marriage unconstitutional. U.S. District Judge Orlando Garcia, however, also issued a stay, meaning the ban stays in effect for the time being. One lesbian couple had to go to Massachusetts to get married, and they want Texas to recognize the union. A second gay couple have a courtship of 17 years and want to get married here in their home state.
  • Transgender man plans to keep seeking divorce (Marriage re-definition complicates divorce law)

    04/05/2013 11:47:27 AM PDT · by SeekAndFind · 33 replies
    Star Advertiser ^ | 04/05/2013 | Jacques Billeaud
    A transgender former Honolulu man whose divorce request was rejected after his marriage was declared invalid plans to keep trying to get his 9-year union dissolved, saying Tuesday that he wants the three children to whom he gave birth to know their parents' marriage was legitimate. Thomas Beatie, wearing a dress shirt and tie, said a judge's decision last week to reject his divorce request was a swipe against his identity and could cause problems for him down the road if he decides to remarry. He also said the ruling underscores his belief that Arizona is unaccepting of transgender people,...
  • Will Democrats End Marriage As We Know It?

    08/01/2012 9:07:09 AM PDT · by Kaslin · 40 replies
    Townhall.com ^ | August 1, 2012 | Ken Blackwell
    When the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) passed in Congress in 1996, the vote was bi-partisan and overwhelming. In the House, the tally was 342-67. Only the farthest left of Democrats and a handful of Republicans voted against it. A majority of Democrats supported marriage. In the Senate, the vote was even more lopsided and bi-partisan, 85-14. Again, most Democrats backed marriage. In both houses of Congress, the DOMA passed with such strong margins that President Clinton could clearly see the measure had better than "veto strength." That is, if he had vetoed the Defense of Marriage Act, Congress could...
  • Md. court: Gay divorce OK while gay marriage isn't

    05/23/2012 9:24:43 AM PDT · by kevcol · 8 replies
    Fox News ^ | May 18, 2012 | Associated Press
    ANNAPOLIS, Md. – Maryland's highest court ruled Friday that same-sex couples can divorce in the state even though Maryland does not yet permit same-sex marriages. The Court of Appeals ruled 7-0 that couples who have a valid marriage from another state can divorce in Maryland. The case involved two women who were married in California and denied a divorce in 2010 by a Maryland judge. . . . Michele Zavos, Port's attorney, cheered the ruling, because now Maryland will at least recognize same-sex marriages from other states, regardless of the outcome of a referendum, even if opponents successfully get enough...
  • Equal right to marry, and divorce (2 homosexual politicians split)

    09/02/2010 11:56:33 AM PDT · by Andy'smom · 37 replies
    The Boston Globe ^ | 09/02/2010 | Jarrett Barrios
    ...I was one of the first elected officials in the country to marry his same-sex partner. In part because there were so many naysayers, we worked to be a model couple — with each of us trying be the perfect husband. Like other lesbian and gay couples, we hoped to show our relationships for what they are: loving partnerships that deserve the possibility of “happily ever after” that marriage promises. Nearly a year ago, I separated from my partner. At the time, we had been together for 16 years and married for over five. I felt I couldn’t discuss it...
  • Wisconsin Court Tells Lesbian: Legal Adoption, Not ‘Nurturing,’ Gives Parental Rights

    06/28/2010 9:17:11 AM PDT · by NYer · 11 replies
    Life Site News ^ | June 25, 2010 | Peter J. Smith
    MADISON, Wisconsin, June 25, 2010 (LifeSiteNews.com) – A Wisconsin appeals court has ruled against a woman seeking joint custody of her former lesbian partner’s adopted children, saying that only legal adoptive status, not years of caretaking, provide parental rights. The District 4 Court of Appeals ruled against a woman identified in court documents as Wendy M., who was seeking legal guardianship of two children whom her partner, identified as Liz K., had adopted from Guatemala. “Wisconsin law neither provides for joint adoption of a child by an unmarried couple, nor permits same-sex couples to marry.  Thus, gay and lesbian couples in...
  • Divorce dilemma: Texas says gays can't get divorce

    04/20/2010 4:14:42 AM PDT · by Palter · 35 replies · 1,132+ views
    AP ^ | 20 April 2010 | JAMIE STENGLE
    After the joy of a wedding and the adoption of a baby came arguments that couldn't be resolved, leading Angelique Naylor to file for divorce. That left her fighting both the woman she married in Massachusetts and the state of Texas, which says a union granted in a state where same-sex marriage is legal can't be dissolved with a divorce in a state where it's not. A judge in Austin granted the divorce, but Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott is appealing the decision. He also is appealing a divorce granted to a gay couple in Dallas, saying protecting the "traditional...
  • Lesbians' divorce stands, Travis County judge says - Texas Atty Gen asked to intervene in case

    04/01/2010 11:37:21 AM PDT · by a fool in paradise · 31 replies · 994+ views
    AUSTIN AMERICAN-STATESMAN via Houston Chronicle ^ | April 1, 2010, 5:58AM | STEVEN KREYTAK
    A judge in Travis County declined Wednesday to consider Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott's request to intervene in the county's first same-sex divorce case, letting stand the judge's February decision to grant a divorce to two women who had been married in another state. Abbott's deputies had argued in court filings that Angelique Naylor, 39, and Sabina Daly, 42, may not be legally granted a divorce because Texas law defines marriage as between a man and a woman. Naylor and Daly were married in 2004 in Massachusetts, where gay marriage is legal. They returned to their home in Austin after...
  • Texas Fighting Same Sex DIVORCE

    02/17/2010 6:55:58 AM PST · by laotzu · 10 replies · 531+ views
    WOAI ^ | 2/17/10 | Jim Forsyth
    Forget about same sex marriage, the State of Texas is trying to block same sex divorce. Attorney General Greg Abbott is stepping in to urge a judge in Travis County to reject the divorce petition of a San Antonio woman who married her female partner in Massachusetts, where same sex marriage is legal, and now want to divorce in Texas. "A divorce is an ending or a termination of a valid legal marriage," Abbott said. "In this case, there was no valid legal marriage recognized by the state of Texas." The issue of same sex divorce is on the cutting...
  • (TX Atty General) Abbott working to stop gay women's divorce (same sex marriage litigation)

    02/17/2010 10:39:26 AM PST · by a fool in paradise · 24 replies · 636+ views
    Houston Chronicle ^ | Feb. 16, 2010, 9:50PM | By R.G. RATCLIFFE
    ...Abbott is trying to halt the divorce of two women in Austin on grounds their Massachusetts marriage is not recognized in Texas. A Travis County state district judge on Feb. 10 granted a divorce in court to Sabina Daly, 41, of San Antonio, and Angelique Naylor, 39, of Austin. Abbott's aides went to court the following day to block the divorce before the written decree was entered. “A divorce is an ending or a termination of a valid legal marriage,” Abbott said Tuesday. “In this instance there was no valid legal marriage recognized by the state of Texas. Texas can't...
  • Judge allows lesbian couple married in Canada to divorce in N.J. (Slouching Towards Gomorrah)

    02/07/2009 7:23:38 AM PST · by RU88 · 17 replies · 632+ views
    nj.com ^ | 2/6/09 | AP (Obama)
    Judge allows lesbian couple married in Canada to divorce in N.J. by The Associated Press Friday February 06, 2009, 4:04 PM A judge in Mercer County has broken legal ground by granting permission to a lesbian couple married in Canada to divorce in New Jersey. Superior Court Judge Mary Jacobson, sitting in Trenton, said the state has a long history of recognizing marriages that are valid in the country or state where they are performed. Trenton Times file photo Judge Mary Jacobson The state Attorney General's Office has argued that the union of La Kia Hammond of Trenton and Kinyati...
  • What's tougher to get than a same-sex marriage? A same-sex divorce

    07/25/2008 6:40:19 AM PDT · by John Jorsett · 20 replies · 72+ views
    Los Angeles Times ^ | July 25, 2008
    'They've given us no choice but to be married forever,' says a Rhode Island woman. Her state doesn't recognize gay marriage, and the state where she was wed limits divorces to residents. PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- On the morning of May 26, 2004, Cassandra Ormiston and her long-time partner Margaret Chambers arose early, hopped in the car and raced across the border into Massachusetts. Then-Gov. Mitt Romney, a staunch opponent of same-sex marriage, had already ordered some Massachusetts cities to stop issuing marriage licenses to gay couples who lived outside the state, and Ormiston and Chambers hoped to get to nearby...
  • Same-Sex Couples Face Another Growing Hurdle -- Divorce

    06/10/2008 5:02:59 AM PDT · by Zakeet · 18 replies · 345+ views
    Wall Street Journal ^ | June 10, 2008 | Nathan Koppel
    Next week, same-sex couples across the country who want to marry will be welcomed in California. But what happens if they later want to divorce? That is one of the many legal issues that could confront California newlyweds who return to home states where same-sex marriages are prohibited. Unlike a Massachusetts ruling a few years ago, a landmark court ruling last month allowing same-sex marriages in California will permit almost any out-of-state couples to wed there. But that doesn't mean their lives after the wedding will be easy. Some gay and lesbian couples joined by marriage in Massachusetts or Canada,...
  • The parent trap (evolving definition of parent gag alert)

    05/22/2008 7:25:14 AM PDT · by sickoflibs · 18 replies · 214+ views
    Baltimore Sun ^ | May 21, 2008 | Sun Editorial
    The reality of 21st century life is that it's difficult to define a family with children. Most people understand this. The most practical is a "know it when you see it" definition: One adult - or two adults in a loving and committed relationship - raising one or more kids. Leave aside matters of genetics, gender or marital status. But somehow this widespread social change has eluded the Maryland Court of Appeals, which this week has decided that there is no such thing as a de facto parent. The court relegates an unmarried parent - in this Baltimore County case,...
  • Some gay couples are having trouble obtaining divorces

    04/15/2008 4:00:16 PM PDT · by Santa Fe_Conservative · 33 replies · 291+ views
    AP via Yahoo ^ | 4/15/08 | RAY HENRY
    PROVIDENCE, R.I. - Gay couples had to struggle mightily to win the right to marry or form civil unions. Now, some are finding that breaking up is hard to do, too. In Rhode Island, for example, the state's top court ruled in December that gays married in neighboring Massachusetts can't get divorced here because lawmakers have never defined marriage as anything but a union between a man and woman. In Missouri, a judge is deciding whether a lesbian married in Massachusetts can get an annulment. "We all know people who have gone through divorces. At the end of that long...
  • Lesbian couple seeks R.I. divorce

    10/09/2007 10:13:01 AM PDT · by j_hig · 84 replies · 1,704+ views
    PROVIDENCE, R.I. - A lesbian couple married in Massachusetts should have the same right as heterosexual couples to divorce in their home state of Rhode Island, lawyers for the women told the state's highest court Tuesday. ADVERTISEMENT Cassandra Ormiston and Margaret Chambers were married in 2004 after same-sex marriage became legal in Massachusetts. Last year, the couple filed for divorce in Rhode Island. Rhode Island law is silent on the legality of same-sex marriages. If the women can't divorce in Rhode Island, their lawyers said the only legal avenue available to them would be for at least one to move...
  • Massachusetts same-sex marriage pioneers split up (no surprise alert!)

    07/21/2006 12:46:14 PM PDT · by NYer · 62 replies · 1,236+ views
    BOSTON (Reuters) - The lesbian couple whose landmark lawsuit helped Massachusetts become the only state in America where same-sex couples can marry legally have split up, a spokeswoman said on Friday.Julie and Hillary Goodridge and six other gay and lesbian couples sued Massachusetts for the right to marry and won when the state's highest court ruled narrowly for them in 2003.Their suit helped spark a nationwide debate on gay marriage.The women "are amicably living apart," Mary Breslauer, a spokeswoman for the couple said. "As always their number one priority is raising their daughter, and like the other plaintiff couples in...
  • Gay divorce stats released

    04/04/2005 10:05:14 AM PDT · by Clint N. Suhks · 12 replies · 1,159+ views
    news24.com ^ | 4/4/05
    Amsterdam - Gay Dutch couples appear to divorce at a rate of about one percent a year - the same rate as heterosexual married couples, according to government data released on Monday. The Netherlands legalised gay marriage in 2001 - the first country to do so - and the data released on Monday was the first time the government has reported on gay divorce rates. Between April 2001, when gay marriage was legalised, and December 2003 there have been 5 751 gay marriages and 63 divorces, according to figures gathered from city registers. In the same period, there were around...
  • Though They Can't Wed, Gays May Now Divorce (Gay Marriage In "Almost All But Name" Comes to CA)

    01/01/2005 4:36:06 PM PST · by nj26 · 25 replies · 530+ views
    Los Angeles Times ^ | 1/1/05 | Lee Romney
    Gays and lesbians still can't marry in California. But starting today, the more than 26,000 couples registered with the state as domestic partners will have to divorce if they split up. If they have children, they will automatically receive a wide array of parental rights. Community property suddenly applies, just as for married spouses. The changes are part of a law, put on the books by the Legislature and former Gov. Gray Davis in September 2003 but going into effect only now, that greatly expands California's 5-year-old experiment with domestic partnerships. The law's supporters and opponents agree that it makes...
  • Seven months after 'I do,' gays begin breakups

    12/21/2004 6:23:11 AM PST · by presidio9 · 62 replies · 1,863+ views
    Associated Press ^ | December 17, 2004 | JENNIFER PETER
    BOSTON Seven months after champagne toasts rang in a new era of gay marriage in Massachusetts, same-sex couples are beginning to share in the less joyous side of matrimony: irreconcilable differences, settlement agreements and divorce. Over the past few months, newlywed same-sex couples have been trickling into probate courts across the state, seeking to renounce the vows they so recently took, filling out forms that still include the traditional "husband" and "wife" references. While opponents of gay marriage are already promising to put a political spin on these swift separations, the divorces are like the thousands of others, involving dry...
  • Ellen DeGeneres Finds a New Love

    12/15/2004 6:30:56 AM PST · by SmithPatterson · 70 replies · 3,149+ views
    The Miami Herald ^ | 12-15-04 | Unknown
    Ellen DeGeneres finds a new love There's good news and bad news in Ellen DeGeneres' household. DeGeneres, 46, has broken up with her girlfriend of four years, photographer Alexandra Hedison, reports The Philadelphia Inquirer. But, proving that destruction often leads to new life, she has done so to pursue a romance with 31-year-old Arrested Development star Portia de Rossi, who left her girlfriend, singer Francesca Gregorini ( Ringo Starr's stepdaughter). Oh, the drama. The new couple have VH1's extravaganza Big in '04 to thank for it all. While they first met some nine months ago at a photo shoot, the...
  • Massachusetts gays divorcing

    12/10/2004 11:02:08 PM PST · by fire_eye · 47 replies · 1,831+ views
    CNN ^ | AP
    BOSTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- Less than seven months after same-sex couples began tying the knot in Massachusetts, the state is seeing its first gay divorces. Newlyweds seeking to renounce the vows they so recently took have been trickling into probate courts across the state, filling out obsolete forms that still read "husband" and "wife." Josh Friedes, a spokesman for the Massachusetts Freedom to Marry Coalition, said the rapid divorces are no cause for concern. "It would be wonderful if every marriage lasted until a couple lived to a ripe old age, but unfortunately we know from our heterosexual peers that...
  • Gay Divorces Follow Marriages in Mass.

    12/11/2004 6:27:34 PM PST · by Anti-Bubba182 · 19 replies · 972+ views
    AP ^ | Dec 10, 10:30 PM EST | JENNIFER PETER
    BOSTON (AP) -- Less than seven months after same-sex couples began tying the knot in Massachusetts, the state is seeing its first gay divorces. Newlyweds seeking to renounce the vows they so recently took have been trickling into probate courts across the state, filling out obsolete forms that still read "husband" and "wife." Josh Friedes, a spokesman for the Massachusetts Freedom to Marry Coalition, said the rapid divorces are no cause for concern. "It would be wonderful if every marriage lasted until a couple lived to a ripe old age, but unfortunately we know from our heterosexual peers that all...
  • Months after the start of gay marriage, the divorces begin

    12/10/2004 3:05:15 PM PST · by missyme · 102 replies · 1,779+ views
    San Diego Tribune ^ | Dec 10th, 2004 | Jenniffer Peter
    BOSTON – Less than seven months after same-sex couples began tying the knot in Massachusetts, the state is seeing its first gay divorces. Advertisement Newlyweds seeking to renounce the vows they so recently took have been trickling into probate courts across the state, filling out obsolete forms that still read "husband" and "wife." Exactly how many same-sex couples are seeking divorces is not clear – nor is it clear whether any gay divorces have become final – because not all counties keep track of which divorce filings are from gays. The first gay divorce case in Suffolk County, which includes...
  • Homosexual Groups, ACLU Aid Lesbian Seeking Visitation

    12/08/2004 11:34:17 PM PST · by kattracks · 16 replies · 477+ views
    CNSNEWS.com ^ | 12/08/04 | Melanie Hunter
    (CNSNews.com) - Two homosexual advocacy groups and the American Civil Liberties Union on Wednesday appealed the case of a lesbian woman who is being denied visitation with the daughter she had with her former partner. Janet Miller-Jenkins is seeking to enforce a court order from a Vermont court that granted her regular visitation with the two-year-old daughter she and her former lover, Lisa Miller-Jenkins, had when they were joined in a Vermont civil union. "My daughter has a right to have access to both of the parents she was born to. I'm in this for her -- she is...
  • First gay divorce granted

    09/14/2004 12:00:08 AM PDT · by BurbankKarl · 19 replies · 666+ views
    Toronto — A judge granted Canada's first same-sex divorce yesterday, ruling that the Divorce Act's definition of "spouse" is unconstitutional. Madam Justice Ruth Mesbur of Ontario Superior Court gave the divorce to a Toronto lesbian couple whose identities were kept secret. They were married shortly after the Ontario Court of Appeal made same-sex marriages legal in June, 2003. They had been in a relationship for 10 years, but matrimonial harmony lasted less than a week. "We believe this is not just the first gay or lesbian divorce in Canada, but actually the first gay or lesbian divorce in the world,"...
  • 'First Same-Sex Divorce': Five-Day Marriage Ends Decade Together

    07/22/2004 1:44:02 PM PDT · by kattracks · 34 replies · 930+ views
    NewsMax.com ^ | 7/22/04 | Carl Limbacher
    It looks as if two Canadian lesbians will make history in the first same-sex divorce. "The women, identified according to their lawyers' initials as M.M., a 41-year-old born in Toronto, and J.H., a 61-year-old born in Ottawa, were married on June 18, 2003, one week after the Ontario Court of Appeal legalized same-sex marriage in the province," the Associated Press reported today. Yet the couple split only five days after the wedding ... after being together for almost 10 years, said J.H.'s lawyer, Julie Hannaford. "This is the first same-sex divorce case in Canada to our knowledge," M.M.'s lawyer, Martha...
  • One year after court approves same-sex marriage, lesbian couple seeks divorce

    07/21/2004 8:29:24 PM PDT · by Nachum · 20 replies · 819+ views
    CNews ^ | July 21, 2004 | CHRIS WILSON-SMITH
    TORONTO (CP) - Barely a year after an Ontario court gave its blessing to same-sex marriage, a lesbian couple is trying to untie the knot in what critics dismissed Wednesday as little more than a judicial stunt to test the limits of Canada's divorce laws. The pair, identified in court documents only as J.H. and M.M., were together for five years prior to their decision to get married last June, but were separated just five days later - two weeks after the Ontario Court of Appeal legalized same-sex marriages. "It's clearly a set-up case after five days where they are...
  • Gay couple's split months after vows adds fuel to debate

    07/10/2004 11:57:54 PM PDT · by KneelBeforeZod · 15 replies · 742+ views
    Mercury News ^ | Sat, Jul. 10, 2004 | By Tracey Kaplan
    They've lasted considerably longer than the 55 hours pop diva Britney Spears managed to stay married, but a same-sex couple who tied the knot in San Francisco three months ago already are seeking to dissolve their union. The couple's breakup after more than 10 years together puts the spotlight for the first time on the flip side of same-sex marriage: divorce. ``I would love to think that gay people will do a better job with marriage than heterosexuals,'' said Frederick Hertz, an Oakland-based attorney and co-author of ``A Legal Guide for Gay and Lesbian Couples'' who represents one member of...
  • Citing SJC ruling, judge dissolves gay civil union (True love lasted 3 months)

    03/25/2004 3:25:13 PM PST · by Indy Pendance · 5 replies · 124+ views
    Boston Globe ^ | 3-25-04 | Kathleen Burge
    <p>The ruling, apparently the first of its kind in Massachusetts and one of the first in the country, came from an Essex Probate and Family Court judge who found that the companion decisions by the SJC gave him the authority to end the civil union of two gay men.</p>
  • Same sex couple, married in San Francisco last month, goes through nasty divorce -

    03/18/2004 9:50:04 AM PST · by UnklGene · 25 replies · 275+ views
    Bongo News ^ | March 17, 2004 | Mark Fisher
    Same Sex Couple, Married in San Francisco Last Month, Goes Through Nasty Divorce - SAN FRANCISCO — A gay couple, married in last month's frenzy of same-sex weddings in San Francisco, has filed for what is believed to be the country's first same-sex divorce. Lawyers for the newlyweds, identified only as John and Gary, said the couple cited "irreconcilable differences" as grounds for the divorce. The couple appeared outside city hall late Tuesday afternoon with their attorneys, who spoke to a gathering of reporters. "While both our clients entered into matrimony with the highest of hopes for a long and...