steve86
Since Nov 28, 2000
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steve86
Since Nov 28, 2000
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Stay away from WreckHeart Troll © (Eckhart Tolle)
My whole family is Pro Life!
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Tradition leads to one place: Jesus Christ and the Apostles
| Compare... Traditional Latin Mass |
With ... Modern Mass at your parish |
| Atmosphere of Reverent Worship: Peaceful, otherworldly atmosphere. Emphasis on individual "lifting his heart & mind to God." Members of congregation direct attention to God, not each other. |
Social, Classroom, Entertainment Atmosphere: Constant standing, sitting, amplified noise; atmosphere like a public meeting. Emphasis on "instruction." Socializing in church before & after service, and handshaking during. |
| Profound Reverence for Real Presence: Sixteen genuflections. The hands of the priest alone touch the consecrated host. Communion given only on tongue. |
Indifference, Irreverence towards Real Presence: Only three genuflections required. Lay men & women distribute communion. Communion given in hand - a practice protestants introduced to deny Christ's Real Presence. |
| Fidelity to Catholic Doctrine: Over the course of a year, presents all facets of Catholic doctrine. |
Systematic Omission of Catholic Doctrines: New prayers systematically omit references to hell, judgement, punishment for sin, merits of the Saints, the one true Church, the souls of the departed & miracles. |
| Antiquity: Bulk of Sunday prayers & their arrangement goes back at least to 300s and 400s AD. Canon essentially the same since St. Ambrose (d. 397). |
Novelty: Old Sunday prayers omitted or stripped of doctrines, and rearranged in 1960s. Only 17% of old prayers remain. Chunks of ancient Canon are now "optional." The words of consecration, Christ's own words "For you and for many" are changed. Three substitute "Canons" invented & introduced in 1960s, and still more invented later. |
| Stability: Everything regulated by precise laws to protect purity of worship and doctrine. |
Constant Change: Options, options and more options. Individual priests & parish liturgy committees get to pick, drop or invent texts to push what they think people should believe. |
| Priest is Sacrificer: Priest faces tabernacle, cross and altar (symbolically toward God). Priest performs all the actions & recites all the prayers of the Mass. |
Priest is "President", Actor: Priest faces people instead of symbolically "toward God." Priest sits off to side. His functions given away to lay men and women. |
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I am not sedevacantist
Note: Any epithets from me to other FReepers made in anger or otherwise, ARE NOT BINDING and are not meant to be temporally persistent beyond the scope of the thread's active life.
TLM in a small parish near me. 
Additional information by FReeper "baa39" explaining the liturgy:
The Catholic liturgy is the Mass. This is the center of our faith, and a source of Grace. It’s not only “Sunday service” but a re-enactment of the Last Supper. It’s a sacrificial offering to God, as established by Jesus when he said “do this in memory of Me.” Mass includes at least four readings from Scripture, a homily explaining them, intercessory prayers, other prayers, but most important, the confection of the Eucharist. At the Consecration, the bread and wine become the “body and blood, soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ.” This is one of the seven sacraments of our faith.
There are specific instructions for how the Mass is offered and how the liturgy is performed, in accordance with revelation, Scripture and Sacred Tradition. These are called “rubrics” and are defined in Canon Law and the General Instruction on the Roman Missal. Rubrics also exist for Baptism and the other sacraments. Not following the rubrics is disrespectful to the Mass (and to God) and deprives the faithful of the proper and FULL experience of the Mass as instituted by Christ. Hence it is called a “liturgical abuse.” In some cases it’s much more harmful, actually invalidating the sacrament, for example using the wrong words for Baptism (such as “In the name of the Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier” instead of “Father, Son and Holy Spirit”.)
...sentence not relevant removed... Liturgical abuses have become widespread, usually as a result of political or sociological ideologies being given precedence by misguided priests.
The Pope has decried these “innovations” and many Catholics have left their parishes or even the Church because the Sacred Rite has been diluted or bastardized by priests and bishops with their own agendas.
...section not relevant removed... It’s mostly lefty, middle-aged ‘hippie’ priests and bishops, many sympathetic to homos, or homos themselves, who also seem (generally speaking here!) to be the most extreme with liturgical abuses. They seem to have their own hidden agenda and want to remake the Church into their own socio-political instrument. But according to Catholic doctrine, the Church is not a human institution, but divine, and we cannot alter it on a whim, the rubrics each have a deep, ancient meaning, and to abuse them changes the nature of the prayer and liturgy given to us by Christ.
7 posted on Sat 19 Apr 2008 11:21:06 PM PDT by baa39
Some concrete examples, ranging from mild to severe liturgical abuses:
wrong color vestments or lack of vestments/stole
holding hands during the “Our Father” (arguably not an “abuse” because not done by the priest, but can be if he encourages it or does not explain why it’s wrong)
using a chalice not lined with gold, such as glass or ceramic (precious metal is required because it will hold the Body of Christ)
allowing the homily to be given by a layperson (must be priest or deacon)
Using grape juice instead of wine
dancing, mime, skits, or any “performance” any time during Mass. Music is not “performed,” but is provided as either sung prayer or to lead the congregation
priest altering any words of the prayers or Roman Canon
priest not genuflecting to the Sacrament after the Consecration
priest altering the words of Consecration
8 posted on Sat 19 Apr 2008 11:34:03 PM PDT by baa39
Beautiful comment by FReeper "Judith Anne" explaining the nature of the Blessed Virgin Mary
Okay, follow along for a moment:
Christ is true God and true man, right? From God the Father He received His God nature, from Mary His mother, he received her human nature. But as Christ Himself said, “Before Abraham was, I am.”
So, how can you think that Mary was a flawed, sinful vessel for God to be born from? She had to be pure: sinless. God saved Mary from all sin, to be His mother: a pure, sinless vessel for Him to join God and man together in the Savior. Are you with me?
Because, without her sinlessness (her Grace from God Who saved her from all sin) then God Himself was partaking of the nature of a flawed creature—if Jesus had a partly flawed nature from His human mother, then He could not have been our Savior, because He would have been flawed as well, through her.
So, Mary was sinless; born sinless. Stayed sinless, unless you think that after Christ was born of the Virgin Mary, He cast her aside and left her to commit whatever sins were laying about to be committed.
And could a womb that held God/Man ever hold anyone else? How would that work? Did God say, “You did well, now go have intercourse with a man and have as many children as may be, I’m finished with your womb now.” He would do that, to the woman who replied to the angel, “Be it done unto me according to thy word”?
And then, when it became her time to die, would He let her flesh decay? Would He even let her die? He came, and took her to heaven, first among Christians, mother of the Savior, Queen of all the saints, merciful mother of God.
It seems to me that denigrating Mary is insulting to God; but not everyone thinks the way I do. For those who disagree, may God bless you with the spiritual discernment you say you prize so highly. (I have my doubts, but—hey! I’m human.)
362 posted on 03/19/2008 1:40:11 PM PDT by Judith Anne
Another wonderful comment, this time by FReeper "VRWCer" explaining the nature of the Blessed Virgin Mary
We worship God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - The Trinity). We *honor* Mary, our mother (Jesus gave her to us as our mother from the cross), as being a human being who was born pure (as in Luke, where the angel Gabriel addresses Mary as “full of grace”), because God intended, before she was born, for her to carry His Son in her womb and be His mother. Therefore, she needed to be a pure and perfect vessel (foreshadowed by the Ark of the Covenant in the OT). We also honor her because, due to the gift of free will, she was always free to say no to the role she was created for - but she didn’t. She said, “Let it be done according to your word”, and became the mother of our Lord, Jesus Christ. Additionally, she was the catalyst in Jesus beginning His ministry (at the wedding at Cana). So as you can see, she really played a most pivotal role in salvation history, and in facilitating the Lord’s plan to redeem the human race. Thus, she is quite deserving of our honor, love, and gratitude.
17 posted on Tue 15 Apr 2008 09:37:42 PM PDT by VRWCer
Tridentine Latin Mass: Last Sunday after Pentecost (1/8)
Beautiful TLM in French Parish on YouTube (Must See!)
Juan Diego, Messenger of Guadalupe - EWTN - Part: 1 of 4 on Godtube
Ave Maria sung in the Chaldean language
