Comments posted related to Dr. Michael Baden wrt Anna Nicole Smiths death and Daniel Smiths death. He is a forensic pathologist of good reputation. IMO.
All posts were made public here on FR and the posters name and date of post is at the end of each post.
THREAD #1
A couple of coroners were on last night saying that, if they have immediate results from the autopsy it probably means she dies of heart failure, an aneurysm or some such. The longer the tests, the more suspicion of toxicity.
Sarasota (to Lizarde) 2/9/07
Same was said on Fox and Friends this AM. I can’t think of his name, Dr. Baden maybe? Grey hair, balding, glasses and had a couple of specials on HBO.
Retrokitten (to Sarasota above) 2/9/07
Hannity and Colmes - interviewing that Dr. Baden - who says the talk about 105 temperature - possibly being the cause of death does not jive with the autopsy report (so far) - no finding of infection (like Pneumonia) that could have caused the death. The thing is we won’t know the facts about her illness because the only people who know the truth - the nurse, maybe the bodyguard, the friend, and HKS himself are all under the influence of HKS. No independent source of information. Also earlier heard that the ME mentioned the continued tests of the blood - but did not hear him say also continued tests of her tissues. Isn’t it in the tissues that they can trace poisons and/or other hard to find causes of death? Even her hair is a source of information? If they are only doing further tests on the blood - that is just not encouraging. Maybe he just was not being thorough in saying what is being tested. I just do not have much faith in this ME.
Freedom’s Worth It (FWI) 2/13/07
I believe Dr. Michael Baden said that methadone is given in orange juice - liquid form. It is possible that Daniel drank his mother’s juice by mistake - probably prepared by HKS. That may have been the reason for ANS’ shouting “This is all your fault” to HKS. Then, ANS and HKS were both terrified of having to testify at Daniel’s upcoming inquest - that may explain why the mortgage was not completed. It’s always possible they never intended to stay in the Bahamas...a reason to buy a boat for mobility. IMHO
sodpoodle 2/18/07
The issue of which jurisdiction controls is always a big issue in the law and if the paternity law in the Bahamas favors a person who is listed on the birth certificate, then it could be crucial, because, assuming Howard K Stern is not the father, he would argue that Bahamian law would apply and not California or Florida law. I am aware that in the Bahamas that for purposes of inheriting your parents’ estate, that if you are on the birth certificate, it is considered unassailable that you are a child for purposes of inheritance. However, it does not automatically mean that you are a parent for the purposes of a paternity fight and there appears to be a lot of confusion about this issue in media reports that I have read.
http://www.courttv.com/chat/transcripts/2007/0215smith-baden.html toldyou 2/18/07
Hey - #15,313 - I heard Cyril Wecht speak - I think night before last - on with NG, I think, and that Dr. Baden, the other expert they have on occasionally in the case. I don’t remember exactly the words said - but the impression was that Dr. Baden kept talking about how the toxicology reports could detect drugs if they were present and could tell this and that. And they also talked about the DNA test, how easy that was to prove paternity, etc. Then Wecht comes on and basically skims over the DNA matter, and then says he thinks we will all be surprised by the final toxicology results - because remember Anna had had a high fever right before this death. Remember Wecht tried to say there was some heart problem with Daniel’s death - but he had to say that problem might have been caused by the drugs interaction - but he said also it might be inherited.
In other words he was insinuating that natural causes will be shown to be the reason for Anna NIcole’s death. He is one of the “paid staff” who owes some of his income to Anna’s and Stern’s pay. I put zero stock in his opinions because they are aimed to get attention OFF of the uncomfortable truths around the causes of both these deaths, IMHO.
FWI 2/24/07
When pundits asked Wecht where the son got the methadone, he would say-that’s your job ( the media ) to find out, not mine. He seemed surprised that no one seemed interested in following that trail. When ANS first expired, he was asked the same question and gave the same answer. Recently, I saw him passionately defending HKS -” anyone who dares suggest that HKS is a serial killer or had anything to do with both their deaths is absolutely crazy, etc.” I wish Dr Baden was on the case. Dr Perper hasn’t inspired confidence with his 24/7 media appearances and his comments that HKS and the rest of the entourage were so helpful in filling in the gaps regarding the timeline and her history.
Wild Irish Rogue 2/25/07
Oh - I hadn’t heard Wecht make that comment to the media re: the reason the methadone was in Daniel’s system: “That’s your job.” And I agree - Wecht is a spokesperson for HKS. He is/was under his employment. He owes Stern. So I do not value his opinions, comments, etc. Don’t like Dr Perper either - his calls in the middle of the courtroom saga especially were NOT necessary and his constant appearances in the media put me off. Yes, Dr. Baden so far has been the most unbiased reporter of what could an could not be in ANS system and how the toxicologists could get the evidence they need of what killed her. Meanwhile Wecht kept hinting that everyond would be surprised - that Anna likely died of natural causes. Ok which brings us back to - Why was the methadone in Daniel’s system????? I don’t think that subject was discussed in the court proceedings about ANS body - much to the delight of HKS I am sure.
15,889 posted on 02/25/2007 11:26:18 AM PST by Freedom’sWorthIt
No, Stern did not go to hospital with Anna. Moe called him from hospital to tell him she was dead. Dr. Baden on now: Temp of 105 - Anna should have been taken to hospital immediately - and there was a physician there - Chris what’s her name - who should have known that. Person can start having convulsions - the temp coming down does cure the convulsions - but doesn’t cure what caused the high fever. Drugs - first he said can’t cause a fever - but cocaine and other drugs can cause a kind of delerium - and that can cause the fever to go up!!!!!
Dr. Baden - She could have had pneumonia - but if so, Dr. Perper would have seen the pneumonia when he did the autopsy.
17,089 posted on 02/26/2007 7:52:41 PM PST by Freedom’sWorthIt
I had the same thought today when I read about the claim she died of Pneumonia. Dr. Perper would have seen evidence in the lungs of pneumonia, if he had done a proper autopsy, wouldn’t he? I’d like to hear Dr. Baden answer that question. Ping me if anybody hear’s Dr. Baden talk about this tonight.
18,759 posted on 02/28/2007 4:42:48 PM PST by Freedom’sWorthIt
OH - so a Hard Rock Cafe doctor did see her? Or did he just call in some meds for her? That would be easy enough to prove. I just fear they are going to report “viral pneumonia” or something like that and maybe say “no illegal drugs in her body” but yet we won’t hear details such as what DID her tissues show, her hair samples - did they even take body tissues, organ tissues, and hair samples? I had heard Perper say just that they took “blood” to examine. I never have heard him talk about organ tissues or hair being examined. Dr. Baden said the hair would show the presence and length of time in the body of drugs. But never have heard Perper say his toxicologist took those samples...but maybe it is just assumed.
FWI 3/02/07
Caught a thing on TV Guide channel of all places last night. Doctor Pinski was on saying of course she had pneumonia and the drugs hid it and probably caused her death... then they asked Doctor Baden if he agreed and he said absolutely not, that in fact abuse of drugs — like Methadone — can cause fluid in the lungs and pneumonia, not the other way around, he said Pinski wasn’t looking approaching it from a clinical aspect like a coroner does.
21,349 posted on 03/03/2007 11:06:34 AM PST by Arizona Carolyn
That is the group I watched this weekend. Wait until you see the Drew Pinski/Baden exchange.
AZ Carolyn 3/06 (in reply to #22714)
Baden saying drugs will not cause 105 degree temp.
23,212 posted on 03/07/2007 10:52:31 AM PST by Arizona Carolyn
Me, too..... Baden saying drugs will not cause 105 degree temp.
But an overdose of botox could: The most frequently reported adverse events (3 - 10% of patients) following injection of BOTOX® in double-blind studies included injection site pain and hemorrhage, non-axillary sweating, infection, pharyngitis, flu syndrome, headache, fever, neck or back pain, pruritus, and anxiety. and eventual death?
23,214 posted on 03/07/2007 10:59:30 AM PST by redgirlinabluestate
From what I heard Dr. Baden say about Dr. Perper, I honestly think he’s more or less above reproach, and good at what he does. Dr. Baden seemed to have full confidence in Dr. Perper. I think it’s all going to come down to the drug investigations, period. I have a few thoughts on that, but will keep ‘em to myself for now and wait for the full autopsy reports. It’s gonna be interesting!
tabor 3/07/07
When we are trying to remember details, this is a good link to past and current ANS issues.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17302850/ 23,751 posted on 03/08/2007 6:13:34 AM PST by sodpoodle
Here we go....related evidence that he wasn’t aware of...that he has to request.....slim chance it could change his conclusion. But it’s important. Didn’t talk to Dr. in Calif. (Kapoor)??? He knows nothing....additional evidence that Seminole police found. Perper wasn’t aware of it. He has to request info. through police and his legal council is looking into it?? Seminole police are good guys. Been very helpful. Baden on phone. Perper is also an attorney....according to Baden. Perper should honor the request. Sounds like the question is wether the death should be classified as a homocide. Needs to talk to Kapoor. Kapoor has not cooperated with authorities.
23,828 posted on 03/08/2007 10:08:47 AM PST by Jrabbit
Good MacCallum interview w/Baden. I get nervous about this open talk of homicide while DL is still in the custody of HKS.
23,833 posted on 03/08/2007 10:13:08 AM PST by windchime
FOX News forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden said it is unusual to make a delay at this point in an autopsy. “The cause of death should be patently obvious at this time ... it sounds like there may be issues about whether it’s a homicide or not,” he said.
23,993 posted on 03/08/2007 1:22:22 PM PST by Lizarde
Yes, well, like Anna did with Daniel’s autopsy - it may become necessary for someone interested in getting all the facts in this case to order another autopsy....I know that’s expensive so Virgie probably can’t afford to do so. Wonder if Dr. Baden would do it if a court ordered it. Oh I forgot to mention on the Greta show - her sub had those 4 lawyer type people on and they all believed Moe’s new info and the police talking to Perper made things highly suspicious that a crime may have been committed in Anna’s death.But, the big thing, was the black guy on there - who is always one of the experts - said he thinks HKS will find himself called before a grand jury investigating Anna’s death and will have to get his facts straight then......That made me wonder - since Anna died on Seminole Indian property - would such a grand jury have to be convened on that property involving only the Seminole tribe people as members? And finally it brought me back to early in thie thread when I sort of said Tiger, the Seminole police chief was “stupid” to say that apparently no crime occurred based on his interviews with the people who were there with Anna.....and Samantha came on saying she knew Police Chief Tiger was a tough nosed police investigator with 30 years experience who would do a thorough investigation of Anna’s death...but he did not like publicity and would be working hard behind the scenes. My one hope is that Samantha knows of what she speaks - and that Chief Tiger may come out as a “hero” in all this for not stopping his investigation until he is sure the truth, the facts, have been fully discovered and, if a crime occurred, the perpetrator or perpetrators will be arrested and charged.
24,668 posted on 03/08/2007 9:55:59 PM PST by Freedom’sWorthIt
I’m pretty sure he did. Either he said so himself (Perper) or I heard Dr. Baden say he would certainly do so.
25,027 posted on 03/09/2007 12:44:48 PM PST by tabor (reply to #24987)
Perper’s conduct has been very unprofessional-the constant teases about the conclusion, the veiled inferences about the conclusion and the changing stories about why he is delaying his report. Perper has made himself part of the story.
His presence at the gravesite was surreal. Early on he said that Stern and the entourage had been very helpful in giving him background info-so, add naivete to his resume. Perper looks like he could be someone’s very nice and very elderly grandpa, but, he doesn’t act like a savvy forensic sleuth ala Dr Baden. A lot of the final conclusion, absent the tox screen and the slides sent out to other labs, will depend on Perper’s own interpretation of the physical evidence on the post. I will not be surprised if there are more questions raised than answered with Perper’s work. I have no confidence in the man based solely on his odd public behavior over the last month.
25,243 posted on 03/09/2007 5:57:46 PM PST by Wild Irish Rogue
THREAD #2
Dr Baden has a show on HBO -” Autopsy “, where he solves mysterious deaths.
He has a Q &A where he answers questions. This is what he says about potassium-
http://www.hbo.com/autopsy/baden/qa_5.html Q-” I’ve heard that it’s nearly impossible to determine that someone has died of a potassium overdose, because potassium levels naturally rise after death. Is this true?”
Dr Baden-Potassium overdose is very difficult to determine at autopsy.
He then details that the best place to get an accurate potassium level is from the vitreous humor-the soft part of the eye.Perper said he checked the vitreous for sodium and chloride, but, he didn’t mention potassium. I assume that checked for potassium and I assume that it was normal. Maybe Greta or Nancy Grace will ask him next time..You all discovered the constant grapefruit eating . Grapefruit is a great source of potassium -maybe ANS was on heavy diuretics for a long time, as part of her Trimspa regime...
Wild Irish Rogue (3/31/07)
Baden. “This list horrifies me...”
Justthinkin (3/30/07)
I thought Greta was incredulous as was Doctor Baden at the sheer number of pills she took over a period of 37 days and another 300 pills missing.
Arizona Carolyn (3.30.07)
http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news?id=29907 Shocking revelations in new death inquest...
By: Zoheir Beig on 3/29/2007
A preliminary interview before the inquest into the death of Anna Nicole Smith’s son has revealed the shocking allegation that she accused her boyfriend at the time, Howard Stern, as being responsible for Daniel’s death. The Forensic Pathologist Dr. Michael Baden is quoted by FOX News as stating that two witnesses in the case, nannies working for Anna Nicole, heard the former Playboy model talking about Howard and blaming him for Daniel’s death. “The two nannies are interesting because they talk about Anna accusing Howard Stern of causing the death of Daniel, that they heard Anna say these things, according to this list” says Baden in a transcript of the interview for ‘On The Record’. It transpires that the two nannies were later fired, possibly by Howard himself.
The full inquest into Daniel’s death is due to begin today in the Bahamas, with more information expected to be revealed about the amount of drugs he did or didn’t consume.
TexKat (3/29/07)
Michael Baden said that there was no doubt in his mind that the “clown video” was mushrooms.
Howlin (3/9/07)
“If Stern gave Anna drugs that weren’t prescribed for her, famed pathologist Dr. Michael Baden tells Globe that he could still face murder charges even if Anna Nicole’s Feb. 8 death at the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel In Florida turns out to be a drug-related accident.”
Palladin (3.11.07)
Hmmm - Dr. Baden saying that the Demerol was in pill form (how does he know?).....and that even if there had been a single injection - that Dr. Perper would have seen this on the initial examination.
Freedom’s Worth It (3/15/07)
Are you listening to Greta - Baden just said the Demerol sent to the Bahamas was in pill form. But that does not mean she was using the pill form of Demerol while she was in Florida. Why would Perper want to know if she used alcohol swabs went she injected herself with Demerol. side note...
Intraveinous means in the vein - but demerol can be injected under the skin, in the muscle, by IV, and rarely directly into the vein (you really have to be a junkie or in severe pain to want to put it into a vein), plus it comes in pill form.
stlnative (3/15/07)
I believe Dr. Perper did see a single injection site and that is why he asked if she used alcohol swabs when she injected Demerol. But why they (Greta & Baden) think she would shoot it into veins is beyond me. There are other ways to inject it they know this.
stlnative (3/15/07)
I don’t know if know this or not - I know we were talking about Demerol if it was in pill form or liquid vial form. So FYI...
The waybill dated 8/8/06 for what Dr. Levy sent says on it what he sent:
30 pills of Dalmane
30 pills of Demerol
1 vial bottle each of the 3 Vitamins
http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0315_levy_pharmacy_2.pdf
Surely she had made it through the 30 pills of Demerol and Dalmane long before February 8th, 2007
To whom this was a concern...
Not sure who asked but someone asked earlier tonight how does Baden know the Demerol the Levy sent was in pill form. Well the waybill says they were pill form
Stlnative (3/15/07)
Now talking about the fax from KE - Psychiatrist - request for list of powerful drugs to be sent to Bahamas....5 days after Daniel’s death...asking Dr. Baden about it. Is this a routine or a red flag? Baden - red flag - even bigger red flag since Kapoor refused to fill this list....Dr. Kapoor’s lawyers said he would never prescribe those drugs in such large doses to any patient.....
Baden said these drugs should never have been prescribed and indicates some kind of overmedication for reasons we don’t know yet....going over list of drugs -
All of these drugs cause respiratory depression -
Freedom’s Worth It (3/16/07)
Yes - Greta asked about the IV port.....but Baden said that was not unusual after c section.....could be for glucose, for antibiotics, depended on her condition....
Freedom’s Worth It (3/16/07)
Not unusual says Baden, after a C-Section that was done in early Sept of 2006?? If she was that sick, why the heck were her buddies, dragging her to Florida, and away from her baby??? This same bunch of buds were planning to put her on a boat and travel for 8-10 hours with a very sick Anna. Doesn’t sound like any of them gave a rip about Anna’s health or her baby. She was surrounded by medical people, but wasn’t taken to a hospital until she was getting stiff(possible rigor)and turning blue.
Pepper777 (3/16/07)
WOW -— are you hearing Baden? The quantities alone are not normally prescribed.
Onyx 3/20/07)
Did you hear Dr. Baden just say Dr. Khristine E. is in TROUBLE?
Dr. Scarpetta (3/20/07)
Baden also told Greta after Greta said she would like to have KE on the show... Baden said “I think she has a contract with ET!” he kinda smiled about his ET comment and then he said to Greta... KE is in serious trouble!
Stlnative (3/20/07)
Let’s review the experts here...Perper has quieted down (police telling him to be quiet?); Wecht is delusionally still supporting Team $tern; and Baden is saying what needs to be said. Hmmm...Cyril might loose his rep (in private autopsy work) and his gig as a ‘talking head’ if it comes to light that he has substantiated the conspracies swirling around both Smith deaths.
PennsylvaniaMom (PAMom) (3/21/07)
Yeah, no doubt all those other opiates she seemed to have preferred were pushed aside in favor of the Methadone. Uh, not exactly. Dr. Kapoor stated that he prescribed her Methadone for PAIN. Dr. Michael Baden the famed Pathologist on tv has stated that it’s not the best pain med because it is so highly addictive and there are more appropriate ones, but the key thing he said was that it would otherwise be used as substitute for HEROIN. Period. Not a bunch of other opiates. But HEROIN. And she wasn’t a Heroin addict, he said. Oh, and you say - almost casually - well, maybe she wasn’t wasted in the clown video, but probably on Methadone. Awwwwwwww. Just on Methadone. How comforting. No wonder Howard felt like the whole thing was such a lark. Oh, almost forgot...yeah, the Psychiatrist friend Dr KE; did you notice she asked for opiates AND Methadone in her faxes to Kapoor and in her contacts with the Bahamian pharmacy where she tried to get all these meds when Kapoor said no?? So much for “SUBSTITUTING Methadone for all those other opiates she seemed to prefer”...
txrangerette (3/23/07)
She is an MD with a further major in Psychiatry. Doctor Baden explained to Greta the other night her higher education makes some of her actions even more questionable.
Arizona Carolyn (3/25/07)
Dr. Baden up! Other aspects....more to the autopsy than cause of death. What about the methadone? What about Daniel? Should HKS have custody of the baby? Should have examined the hair. It can tell the timing of drug habit over a period of months. Where did the methadone come from that Daniel took?
KsSunflower (3/26/07)
Dr. Baden: Talking about the methadone in ANS body - didn’t kill her but why did she have it in her system, who gave it to her, does it have a relation to the methadone in Daniels system - and the paternity case for the baby....(I have always thought Dr. Baden made the MOST SENSE of these pathologist people)....and how did the methadone in Daniel get there! Now - talking about the info they have about Daniel - toxicologist found methadone in the bile and in Daniel - also Dr. Kapoor is going to testify
FWI (3/26/07)
BTW Dr. Baden saying they should have analyzed her hair to find out what she had been using and how long.
AZ Carolyn (3/26/07)
It was said on Greta tonight when she was going over some of the witness list with Dr. Baden. They also commented though that we would have to wait and see how their testimony played out becuase they were fired by Anna or Howard - implying that it could taint the testimony.
Mommya (3/27/07)
The inquest started and stopped today, I caught five minutes of Baden with Greta.... they are suspicious and were going over the notes for the inquest, very interesting if you can catch rerun later...
AZ Carolyn (3/27/07)
ok I did it to Greta: I am very curious about the autopsy report showing Anna Nicole Smith off Methadone for two-three days - this constitutes detox for someone who uses it frequently and the symptoms of high fever etc. are listed as symptoms of methadone withdrawal. Also the drugs valium, ativan, clonopin and chloral hydrate can be used in methadone detox. Would you please ask one of your guests like Dr. Baden about this. Thank you. Liz
Lizarde (3/28/07)
BADEN: A lot of evidence was given for study. That’s never been revealed because Dr. Wecht revealed what he did in his autopsy, but the Bahamian doctor has never released the toxicological findings. That’s going to be very interesting.
AZ Carolyn (3/28/07)
Forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden reviewing a witness list for the inquest pointed out some hotly-anticipated testimony. “The two nannies are interesting because they talk about Anna accusing Howard Stern of causing the death of Daniel, that they heard Anna say these things, according to this list,” he told Fox News. The list indicates there will also be testimony that puts methadone in the room, important as a big question will be how exactly did Daniel get the methadone that helped overdose him when he had just been picked up by Stern at an international airport?
TexKat 3/29/07
So, at about 10 am, when Perper says that ANS was “ given or took “ the fatal dose of Chloral Hydrate-Moe said she was sleeping ... with HKS at her side .
If she’s sleeping-how could she take CH ? If Perper had bothered to read the transcripts of some of the bizarre and dissembling interviews this group had given- he might not look like such a fool, today. I still can’t get over Perper blaming a drug addicted, functionally illiterate and very sick woman for not understanding that her drugs would fatally interact. Perper believed that the only meds she took IM were the vitamins and Dr Feelgood hormones and immunoglobulin. Dr Perper believed that ANS who required large doses of narcotics for severe and debilitating back problems- was somehow able to torque herself in a way to inject herself in both buttocks. That she would be able to perform this feat is amazing and that she would go to all this pain for the sole purpose of injecting vitamins-defies credulity. I can believe the self injection into the thighs, but, not the buttocks. Dr Baden said the Seminoles left the room open for one hour before securing the room. Dr Henry Lee said that the Seminoles did not process the scene properly and left a lot of bizarre things untested-like the brown fluid at the bedside.
Wild Irish Rogue 3/29/07
” Note time of police arrival: 18:40 -— that’s 6:40PM.”
I think that’s when they left, IIRC. But, Baden has said on numerous occasions that the Seminoles left the room unsecured for an hour.
And tonight, Perper said that no drugs could have been removed because “ hotel employees “ were around the suite. Perper came off as a confused and defensive old man. I just glanced at the Autopsy Report and on Page 7, Perper clearly describes a 40 minute gap in the discovery of ANS being unresponsive and the time 911 was finally called .I guess HKS and KE told him that was just another “ accident.” The FBI obviously should come in, because this case has been botched from the get go. It looks like a cover up and it doesn’t pass the smell test.
But, I still don’t know if the FBI has to be invited to come in by the Seminoles ( the Seminoles are considered a sovereign nation )or if they can enter on their own.
Wild Irish Rogue 3/30/07
Baden: All the drugs found in Anna Nicole’s system were drugs prescribed to HKS
justthinkin 3/30
Dr KE prescribed Furosemide for HKS on the same day she prescribed Potassium for herself. They are usally taken together because Furosemide is a diuretic and you need potassium when taking. Greta thought is odd and was asking Dr. Baden, why would she prescribe half to HKS and half to herself.
Bria 3/30/07
Greta/ In looking at the list. is there anything that pops out at you? Baden/ Yes,all the drugs that contributed to her death were prescribed to HKS
Also written on the screen,Dr KE prescribed all 11 drugs in the room.
Bria 3/30/07
Anna Nicole Smith watches a boxing match from near the ringside at the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Hollywood, Florida January 6, 2007. Picture taken January 6, 2007. [Reuters] That would be these: Topomax 50 mg. 1/26/07 Qty. 82 left out of 120 pills Carisoprodol 350 mg. 1/26/07 Qty. 111 left out of 360 pills Diasepam (Valium) 10 mg. 1/26/07 Qty. 178 left out of 240
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/entertainment/2007-01/08/content_777572.htm And for the other trip back to the mainland might be this: “Anna Nicole Smith and Howard K. Stern were in South Florida this week for business surrounding a purchase from Reel Deal Yachts of Miami Beach. Reel Deal’s owner and President, Marcos Morjain, confirmed that the actual yacht purchase (pictured below) was finalized two weeks ago with Stern, Smith, and their Captain, during their last trip to Miami.”
http://www.accesshollywood.com/news/ah3954.shtml Just thinking about what you said. Although I did go back to the ON THE RECORD show airing Friday night 03/31/07 and watched it again and Baden said they were all filled in the Bahamas - don’t know if he knew that or just was presuming.
Justthinkin 4/01/07
Yes, some of the drugs were redundant, I believe. AND Baden has said most of them in her system act to suppress respiration. On top of which you add the biggie CH. There is no reason to what Perper is saying, that I can see, I agree with you.
Txrangerette 4/05/07
Baden saying this is a huge overdose. Sounds like Perper watered down the autopsy findings...he didn’t call it huge (and Wecht on another program tried to argue it wasn’t really a toxic dose)
Lizarde 4/06
Greta - saying again - Did you ask if they gave her 4 tablespoons - associate ME - no I did not.....Greta: If they know she has a problem with CH - would you find that an important question? Associate ME - yes. Then he says - it could have possibly have been two ingestions to get the CH in her.
Greta - did they say they hid the drugs? ME: I got the impression they kept it away from her......
Dr. Baden now on - Obviously they were not monitoring her appropriately (Chloral Hydrate) - that is a huge overdose - about 30 times the normal dose to sleep - of CH.....
Dr. KE has to have a record of why she gave the CH, the dosage, etc.....we don’t know if she has such a record.
Dr. Baden - Chloral hydrate is probably ok in small amounts- it’s less addictive than other sleeping meds - but if you have a patient who is addicted to several drugs - you have to get them into treatment.....
FWI 4/6/07
Between 9 and 9:30 HKS woke up
10 he helped her to the bathroom
she probably died 2-3 hours after the chloral hydrate
1:00 she was obviously dead per Baden - she wasn’t breathing
Baden talking about 1:00 - 1:40 when they called 911 “they could have done all kinds of stuff then”.
2 hours stiffening of the jaws (they were moveable)
Baden thinks she was dead around noon. No stiffening or livity. Dead an hour before Taz figured it out - THIS IS HUGE
Lizarde 4/6/07
Stern helped Anna to the bathroom about 9:30 to 10:00 - and 10:00 is the time Dr. Perper thinks she had to get the CH.
Dr. Baden - when she was found at 1:00 - she was obviously dead - she wasn’t breathing.....3 hrs after Stern said he took her to the bathroom.
Then they did CPR for 40 mins before calling for EMS. Greta - if she took the CH at 10:00 AM - could she have died within 1 hr? Is there a way to know that? Baden yes - she would have gone into a gradual coma maybe an hour or two - so I think she would have been dead by about noon - because she didn’t have the rigor mortis that would be there if she had been dead a lot longer......Greta: If you have the flu, if a doctor had been called, do you think CH would have been given by a doctor to help her sleep in the middle of the day? Baden - it’s possible - but NOT IN THAT DOSAGE......Dr. KE will have to explain why she prescribed such a dosage - Greta - but the patient could have abused it (the CH) - Baden - or whoever was with her could have abused it by giving her too much.
FWI 4/6/07
Ted Williams? - It is absolutely NOT acceptable that the Seminole PD is not going to investigate any further - there are too many unanswered questions.
Greta - I would want to know how impaired she was - whether the drug was hidden - whether she could get it herself.....
Jim Hammer - repeating - when you asked the assoc ME - last night - did you ask HKS how much CH did you give to Anna - and that question was not even asked -——— he is outraged that Greta’s question was not asked in this investigation. Is the investigation so sloppy that the state Attorney General should get involved?
Bernie Grimm - the 64,000 question - If Anna died of toxic levels of CH and nontoxic levels of all the other meds - how did she get the CH????? (so she is given the CH since she couldn’t even get to the BR) - Baden said 30- grams of CH will kill anyone - Talking about Federal Government could come in since Seminole tribe is Federal domain - but nobody is going to come in......WHY NOT??????
FWI 4/6/07
Yss it is huge! Dead about 12 noon! estimated of course.
(Perper never did give an estimated time of actual death, did he???)
And the fact that the Chloral Hydrate dose she took was so HUGE it would kill the person taking it! Greta made the point - that the person ingesting the CH could abuse it and take more than prescribed....and then Baden made the point that - OR - the person GIVING Anna the CH could have abused the dosage and given this huge dose. And Perper doesn’t even ASK Stern who gave Anna the CH???? Or how did she get it if she was so weak he had to carry her to the bathroom and Stern and KE kept the CH away from Anna in an attempt to control it?????
Bernie said the American people should be demanding this investigation be reopened.
FWI 4/6/07
Yes, I remember Perper spouting all that stuff about the atropine.....and all this time I thought ME’s could determine time of death pretty definitely in most cases. Baden came across as if my assumption is right.
FWI 4/6
Wow, so some post mortem stiffness had already set in . . . Once they over came the rigidity, by forcing it to close so they could give mouth to mouth, the paramedics wouldn’t notice any stiffness by the time they arrived. This should be forwarded to Greta and Baden for commentary.
Nynjanais 4/6
(in reply to Luvlyness comment): “Taz said this in her reeanactment interview: Tas: I looked in her mouth, and her tongue was like…stuck to the roof of her head. I had to pretty much pry it down. Is this post mortem stiffness?
Sure sounds like it to me.
I think this should be forwarded to Baden and/or Greta in reponse to his comments because it certainly is relevent to their deducing the time of death.
Nynjanais 4/7/07
Baden said last night on Greta that she probably was in a coma for about an hour and then died around noon!
Lizarde 4/7/07
If Baden could say it and I agree with him as to TIME (though I think 11:45 is closer), then why can’t Perper give an actual time rather than the “Pronouncement” time.
Sacajaweau 4/7/07
here’s a place where you can ask Dr. Baden questions:
http://boards.hbo.com/thread.jspa?threadID=244&start=0 Lizarde 4/7/07
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THREAD #3 (up to post 1369)
Hmmmm...critical Time 10:00-12:00
Baden said in Greta inteview- ANS probably dead by 12:00pm, maybe sooner.
Link DescriptionAnna Nicole Smith Investigation Reports
Mr. Stern awoke between 9-10 am and helped Anna to the bathroom. He then watched television in another room until King Eric called to inform him of his arrival at the airport. Mr. Stern then called Maurice to instruct him to pick up the guests (King Eric, his common-law wife, and another man). Invetigation Reports (Investigaton Report document, page 6)
and
Thursday, February 8, fourth day in USA and the day of death According to Mr. Howard K. Stern, he woke up around 10 am and found Miss Smith awake, with no complaints, except for excessive tiredness. Mr. Stern helped Miss Smith go to the bathroom and then put her back in bed. According to Mr. Howard Stern, he did not see Miss. Smith take or being given any medications that morning. Mr. Stern then left to arrange the buying of a boat for Miss Smith.Investigation Reports (Press Release document, page 9)
Besides HKS helping her to the bathroom and then putting her back in bed, (Greta’s questions going to if ANS was too weak/sick to get herself to this duffle bag of medicines) -
If 11 prescriptions in duffle bag (one being the critical bottle of CH liquid), was being monitored by Mr. Stern, (as was said in Greta interview by Dr. Shueler, Chief Toxicologist and Dr. Perper, Chief Medical Examiner- they both stated that is what was said or implied by Mr. Stern in his interview with them),
How did ANS get the CH out of the duffle bag without him seeing her?
According to Stern, he never left the suite, so:
1. if he was in 607 wouldn’t he see her
2. if he were in sitting room he would have seen her as she crossed through sitting room, or
3. if he were in room 609 where the actualCH was supposedly found later* he would have seen come all the way from the 607 bedroom, through the sitting room, to the 609 bedroom.
*note no duffle bag was even mentioned in the report
*The guest bedroom has three beds, which were well made and covered with white sheets, and covers. A night table separates the two beds. Opposite the foot of the bed was a small table with various items including numerous medication bottles, prescribed under different names. There was also a piece of furniture containing a small refrigerator and a large-size TV. The medicine bottles in the entire suite were photographed. A list of all the medications was taken including the date prescribed, amount prescribed, and the amount left in each bottle. The scene was left at 2130 hours. Investigation Reports (Scene Report- Seminole Hard Rock Cafe, page 2)
689 posted on 04/09/2007 12:50:56 AM PDT by justthinkin
Dr. Baden was on Hannity and Colmes at the same time as Wecht. I think Kimberley Guilfoyle set the stage for Wecht to get angry by stating she was not afraid of ‘big bad wolf Stern’. Dr.Baden: Science & medicine is easy - it’s the legal things that are more difficult. KG-If you’re bio father would you ask another man to put name on birth certificate? (GBT reference) Dr.Baden-Stern testified he was the father, technically he was ‘cause on birth certificate. Until proven otherwise. Maybe he knew he was not the bio father. Crosstalk about will. Dr. Wecht -Fascinating that people are now in LB’s mind. Gotta say something here. It’s his name. I’m sick and tired of this. LB is no good now that working gentlemanly w/Stern. Let them work it out. He’s shaking, gasping for air with pained look on his face while his hands are shaking in front of him. Whoa. 3,197 posted on 04/10/2007 9:58:23 PM PDT by windchime