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To: ealgeone; one guy in new jersey; metmom
ealgeone - perhaps you need to read the Gospel of St. John?
25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus was an obedient Jew - and as per Jewish law, it was the duty of the other siblings to take care of the mother. But why does HE tell a disciple (John) to take care of Mary?

If the Blessed Mother actually gave birth to other children, as many non-orthodox mistakenly believe, it would be unthinkable to put her in the care of St. John, a non-blood relative, because the ancient Jews greatly valued family and related responsibilities.

Instead, Jesus puts his mother in the care of his apostle John. And even though John is not a son of Mary, Jesus refers to John as her son and Mary as John’s mother. Mary is thus seen as the spiritual mother of all disciples.

remember Luke 11:27-28 27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
-- Think about Luke 18:18-19, in which a ruler refers to Jesus as “Good Teacher,” and he replies, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.” On the surface, Jesus seems to be denying his own divinity and goodness. But on closer inspection, he’s actually doing the opposite. Something similar is happening here: although Jesus at first seems to be knocking Mary down, his actual teaching shows Mary’s importance.

Jesus’ point in both Matthew 11 and Luke 12 isn’t to knock Mary down a peg. It’s to hammer home that, although Jesus is the fulfillment of God’s promise to the House of David, the kingdom of God isn’t going to go the way that Israel and Judah’s royal house went. Membership in this new dynasty is based not upon blood or marriage, but upon faith, so that “to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God” (John 1:12). That’s the point Jesus is making in Matthew 12: we are all invited into Jesus’ family, through faith. Slowly, Jesus’ followers will realize that this “all” includes even Samaritans and Gentiles, and that this new house “shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples” (Isa. 56:7).

173 posted on 05/13/2024 11:01:09 AM PDT by Cronos (I identify as an ambulance, my pronounces are wee/woo)
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To: Cronos
ealgeone - perhaps you need to read the Gospel of St. John?

I've read it. Perhaps you need to read and understand it.

Jesus was an obedient Jew - and as per Jewish law, it was the duty of the other siblings to take care of the mother. But why does HE tell a disciple (John) to take care of Mary?

If the Blessed Mother actually gave birth to other children, as many non-orthodox mistakenly believe, it would be unthinkable to put her in the care of St. John, a non-blood relative, because the ancient Jews greatly valued family and related responsibilities.

At the time His brothers and sisters did not believe in Him. We have that evidence from John himself....that is...if you have actually read the text.

*****

1After these things Jesus was walking in Galilee, for He was unwilling to walk in Judea because the Jews were seeking to kill Him. 2Now the feast of the Jews, the Feast of Booths, was near.

3Therefore His brothers said to Him, “Leave here and go into Judea, so that Your disciples also may see Your works which You are doing. 4“For no one does anything in secret when he himself seeks to be known publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world.” 5For not even His brothers were believing in Him.

John 7:1-5 NASB

*****

And don't try to play the semantic game about what brother means. In this context, and context is your key to understanding the text, these are His half-brothers. Yes, Joseph and Mary had sex....oh the horror for the Roman Catholic to believe that....and there's not a thing wrong with that. In fact, it follows God's commandment to be fruitful and multiply.

Why John though? John was the disciple He loved. John was also at the Cross. We don't have record of any other disciple being there nor His brothers or sisters. It was a very natural and logical thing for Jesus to put Mary into the care of this disciple.

So in His infinite wisdom Jesus did honor the Law and take care of His mom.

Instead, Jesus puts his mother in the care of his apostle John. And even though John is not a son of Mary, Jesus refers to John as her son and Mary as John’s mother. Mary is thus seen as the spiritual mother of all disciples.

Let's see what John wrote about this.

*****

....But standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” 27Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household. John 19:25-27 NASB

*****

IF one reads the Greek in this passage one will quickly see this is a very private matter intended to be only between John and Mary.

IF it had been intended for Mary to be the "spiritual mother of all disciples" as wrongly claimed by Rome, this would have been the perfect opportunity to make that clear.

Instead, the text notes John took her into his household. Understanding these last two words is key to understanding the sentence and what has happened.

To read anything else into the text, as Rome often does, gives an incorrect meaning and understanding to the text.

*****

27While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.” 28But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” Luke 11:27-28 NASB

Notice in this passage what was not said. Jesus did not take this opportunity to lift up Mary as Rome has done.

He shifted the conversation to the more important topic....following God. Instead of giving the glory to Mary, as Rome would and has, Jesus gives glory to God and points people to God. He did not point them to Mary. And that is telling.

*****

Not sure what passage you're referring to in Matthew 11, but I note this one in the conversation.

*****

11“Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12“From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force. 13“For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14“And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come. 15“He who has ears to hear, let him hear. Matt 11:11-15 NASB 95

Here was another opportunity to lift up Mary to the place Rome has, yet instead, it is John the Baptist who Jesus speaks about.

*****

But there is this from Matthew 12 which is what I think you meant to reference.

46While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. 47Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.”

Keep in mind this is His hometown. The people who know Him and His family. And the people clearly identify His brothers as belonging to Mary.

*****

48But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 50“For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

This is also instructive as it denies what Rome claims about Mary and how she instructs Jesus and He basically does it...per the Glories of Mary.

Jesus doesn't jump when either Mary or us say to. He moves to fullfull the Father's purpose.

Membership in this new dynasty is based not upon blood or marriage, but upon faith, so that “to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God” (John 1:12). That’s the point Jesus is making in Matthew 12: we are all invited into Jesus’ family, through faith.

You just said exactly what Christians have been saying on these forums for years. We come to salvation through Christ, and only Christ, through faith.

We don't go through Mary. She plays zero part in our salvation. The passages you cite show the error of Roman Catholic writers who wrote "sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus...[who] does not at once, answer anyone who invokes him, but only does so after just judgment. But if the name of his mother Mary is invoked, her merits intercede so that he is answered even if the merits of him who invoked her do not deserve it.” Through her “the elements are renewed, the netherworld is healed, the demons are trodden underfoot, men are saved and angels are restored."

*****

It's either faith through only Christ as you correctly noted or the writer of the quote is incorrect. The two are mutually exclusion. And there is zero allowance for the writer of the quote above to be correct. It's not dogma but Rome has done nothing to negate the statement. And it's but one of many like this.

175 posted on 05/13/2024 3:45:33 PM PDT by ealgeone
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