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To: ProgressingAmerica; woodpusher
You are actively minimizing American abolitionism. That is why I pinged you and the rest here. By purposefully distorting the timeline and the historical record, you are, yes, you are, minimizing American abolitionism. It was in fact the first of its kind during the transatlantic period. The entire world would look different had the empire allowed American abolitionists to do their jobs unfettered.

Not all colonies were equal; treating the American colonists as one mass of abolitionists is as much a distortion of history as those who claim the colonists were rampant slavers. Consider the case of James Oglethorpe, the proprietor of the colony of Georgia: at his behest (partially due to concerns with runaway slaves potentially aiding the Spanish who controlled Florida, but also because of his motivation regarding the moral character of the colonists), he actually got the House of Commons in Parliament to codify a ban in 1735.

Slavery was only made legal in the colony of Georgia at the behest of its own colonists in 1751, after a petition to Parliament was filed in 1749 to reverse the ban.

Somehow hard left wing historians have found success in convincing people that "American slavery" is somehow deeply unique and distinct, when every aspect appeared elsewhere in the Americas - all of which under European control prior to 1776.

And they are wrong to characterize America so; you'll get no argument from me on that front.

At the end of the day, it wasn't the globe who controlled the Caribbean. It wasn't the globe who controlled the 13 colonies. This should not be difficult for you to grasp. It was controlled by the British Empire.

Throughout the 18th century, control of the Caribbean vacillated between the Spanish and the British to varying degrees (with smatterings of French, Dutch, and Danish possessions; the Swedes only showed up in the 1780s). All of them practiced and participated in the slave trade. To render the Caribbean as though it were solely British is inaccurate.

The empire tried to stop us, which is the whole point, and they likewise deserve (dis)credit all the same for their recorded and provable misdeeds.

The British could do nothing to stop the new American states from manumitting their slaves and fully abolishing slavery after the conclusion of the American Revolution. But by that point, fully abolishing slavery ran into the brick wall called...their fellow Americans. Sad, but true.

Perhaps you are a British citizen and not an American one - I never thought to ask.

I am a natural-born citizen of the USA. As such, I have no interest in making out American historical figures to be anything other than what they were; turning them all into angels is just as deceitful and wrong as turning them into devils wholesale.

13 posted on 10/27/2023 1:52:01 PM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007 (There is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: Ultra Sonic 007; BroJoeK; woodpusher; jeffersondem; x; Renfrew; wardaddy; Pelham; DiogenesLamp; ...
"I am a natural-born citizen of the USA. As such, I have no interest in making out American historical figures to be anything other than what they were"

When do you begin doing that?

"The British could do nothing to stop the new American states from manumitting their slaves and fully abolishing slavery after the conclusion of the American Revolution. But by that point, fully abolishing slavery ran into the brick wall called...their fellow Americans. Sad, but true."

No but by that time, the veto damage had already been done and an additional decade's worth of British slaving had increased numbers even higher. Much of that is due to the revwar moreso than the crown veto measures, but it still remains the same. The veto measures necessitated also halting for the war, so they do not have full mutual exclusivity. It's like dominoes. The whole thing got pushed back and the next domino falls, then falls the next.

The entire world would look different had the empire allowed the original American abolitionists to do their jobs unfettered.

I know you seem to deeply dislike it when someone uses the phrase British slaving, but they vetoed it and because they vetoed it, the empire owns it. It's not meant as a personal jab, FWIW, and it should not be received that way either. Besides. The empire doesn't actually even exist anymore. So who cares? It may be fun for you or I to poke some BLM activist in the ear and frustrate them by proclaiming that Britain should pay reparations, but today's Britain is a different place. The empire is gone, just as gone as U.S. slavery. Both are academic discussions and nobody should be paying anything $$ here.

What there does though, there seems no question in my mind that the original 13 colonies would have at a minimum began their lives in 1776 as 3, maybe even 4 free soil states and 10(9?) slave instead of the full 13 slave they were forced into becoming. Starting ahead that early would no doubt have serious ramifications to our detriment this very day.

A little veto goes a long way. And along with that veto goes very real and very undeniable guilt.

14 posted on 10/27/2023 9:41:11 PM PDT by ProgressingAmerica (The historians must be stopped. They're destroying everything.)
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