Posted on 03/20/2002 7:30:42 PM PST by Burkeman1
Well, on FR, you may add (v) get appalled that your opponents stifle "the open dialogue and discussion" when you get caught using the above-described methodology.
So, Blade, you are just disturbed that Israel is not living up to the democratic ideals? You are disturbed because, just like our own one, their democracy could benefit from perfection?
I you continue to care about Israel and its democracy so much, I am afraid Mr. Sobran will count you among the "American Amen corner."
The parallel is abolutely true and valid. As part of this process, the non-Japanese Americans gassed scores of the Japanese-Americans in these "internment" camps. For many years before that, we conducted an orchestrated campaign against our own citizens of Japanese decent. We confiscated their shops, forbade them entering into professions. Our leaders constantly spoke about the world-wide Japanese conspiracy. Our propaganda machine publised books about the Japanese killing non-Japanese children to drain blood for their rituals.
Remember all of this? All of that was done for security reasons.
For you this is the site with useful information?
This site essentially says that there is no difference between us and the Nazis, and you find it useful, Herr Goering?
This piece if one of the most stupid things I have seen in a while. At the level of some Saudi or Egyptian vitriol with unsupported accusations and invented "facts."
This is the device adopted recently by TV reporters that they think portrays them as objective. As in, "Socrates, an allegedly Greek philosopher..."
Maybe he always wanted to be a reported when he grows up?
Hitler, allegedly a bad man
Albert Einstein, allegedly a scientist
Bill Gates, allegedly not starving this year
Mother Teresa, allegedly helpful at times
Joeseph Stalin, allegedly paranoid at times
I think the list can be longer, but what is the point? But hey, add that magic "allegedly" in the sentence, and noone can take issue with you for choosing sides, or standing for anything!!! YUCK!
invent a higher, more stringent standard than is universal
OK, here we go. Where did I say Israel had to be perfect? What was the higher, more stringent universal standard that I invented. Please be specific.
apply it to the subject of your hate
show that the subject fails this artificial, often unreachable standard
reach the conclusion that the subject deserved to be hated. ,
I did that huh? ...and tell me TP, when did you stop beating your wife?
Let's see. First, you ascribe to me several premises that I do not hold, and then you use these premises to prove what else? -- that I "hate" my subject. Such is the typical "rebuttal" from a member of the Amen Corner -- logical fallacies, lies, and the stomach punch all rolled into one. You're laughable.
disturbed that Israel is not living up to the democratic ideals?
No, I am not disturbed (nice smear term by the way), and certainly dont hate anybody. Disgusted would be more accurate.
I am disgusted that Israel and Jews gets away with things that NOBODY else could EVER get away with. That's why my hat's off to Joe Sobran. He has the courage to speak out.
Let's consider the roll call: the USS Liberty massacre, Pollard, AIPAC, 100 billion in US foreign aid to Israel, Israeli spy rings on US soil, Israeli foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks, the list just goes on and on and on. In the meantime, most American Jews support liberal democrats, and the few conservative Jews that are out there tend to be staunch Zionists that advocate the interests of Israel over the interests of the United States.
Some say that it's improper to criticize Jews (or any other group) as Jews. It is said that it is only permissible to criticize individuals. Yet when Christians organize in their own country to advance a political agenda, we ALWAYS seem to hear about it, usually from the media and Hollywood, both of which are dominated by Jews. Or, to use Billy Graham's phrase, held in a stranglehold.
Suppose Arab Muslims dominated the Isreali media. Suppose we amended the US Constitution along the lines of the Israeli ethnic-religious model, except with white Christians taking the place of Jews.
Would that disturb you? If the answer is yes, you are rank hypocrite.
You are disturbed because, just like our own one, their democracy could benefit from perfection?
Again, I am not disturbed." I am disgusted . I'm sick of the dishonesty on this topic. You can call me all the names you want now.
In the meantime, most American Jews support liberal democrats, That is absolutely correct. This is becasue not only from their terrible European past but also becasue of people like you. I have always said the Republican party has done more for blacks than the Southern Democrats like the Klan memver Byrd, for instance. Yet it is the loud bigots that are allowed to stay within the conservative movement that give us a bad name and scare the minorities away.
the few conservative Jews that are out there tend to be staunch Zionists that advocate the interests of Israel over the interests of the United States. That is one explanation that you have chosen. The other may be: (i) they know right from wrong, and (ii) the live in the real world and know real facts.
Do you suppose this is what the methane-breathing swamp-dwelling crackpot anti-Semite Sobran has in mind? --
Palestinians terrorize West Bank Christians in shakedown bid
Monday, March 11, 2002
RAMALLAH The Fatah movement led by Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat last month launched a campaign against Christian churches and businesses around the West Bank in an attempt to extort money for local militias.
Palestinian sources said the focus of the Fatah attacks was in Ramallah, the headquarters of Arafat.
A mob led by Fatah militants attacked churches, Christian institutions and businesses during a two day period in early February. The sources said the attack was coordinated by Bashir Nafeh, a leading PA security officer and Fatah member.
The sources said the attack began on Jan. 31 when Muslims torched Christian homes and stores in Ramallah. The mob also attempted to break into the Greek and Roman Orthodox churches in the city and attacked Christians on the streets of the city. At least one Christian was killed.
The attack stemmed from Fatah attempts to force Christian businesses to pay a monthly sum to the militia. In the Kalandia refugee camp outside Ramallah, a Christian butcher refused to pay what was termed protection money and was stabbed to death.
Similar attacks were reported in Bethlehem and in the surrounding suburbs. But the largest campaign against the Christians was reported in Ramallah.The original article is here.
I'll await with interest to hear Sobran raise his voice in defence of Palestinian Christians when it doesn't give him a chance to smear and vilify Jews. But I won't hold my breath.
I've got to tell you: when the Arafat's faction lynched an alleged collaborator right on the Manger Square last week, I thought that teh choice of the place was not an accidental. I thought that, perhaps, the poor victim they killed may have been a Palestinian Christian. However, having read your post, I suspect it must have been a continuation of the intimidation of the churches: along the lines of, "See what we can do?"
Thank you for the post, I'll clip it.
P.S. Your point about Sobran is an excellent one, too. He rides a high hourse hectoring how Christians should stand up for each other, yet he would never write about the shakedown of churches and killings. For the reason you just stated: this does not help his anti-Jewish agenda. I think you are correct on all points. Thanks again for the post --- I wish every single Sobran's supporter on this board read it.
My Uncle and Cousin worked in Saudi Arabia for 25 years and he saw how the Saudi's treated Palestinain "guest workers". I then asked him why there are no Christian Churches in Saudi Arabia- even for the diplomats! He had no answer- got indignant at my very relevant questions and left in a huff with his entorage of euro trash and other arab rich kids.
What a weak SOB.
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