Posted on 05/10/2008 4:07:27 PM PDT by levotb
I've heard from a number of freepers in recent threads telling me, "A vote for a third party candidate is a vote for Obama". In an attempt to FINALLY put that idiocy to rest, I'm devoting this thread solely to that subject.
"Let logic prevail!", I always say. Well, there IS no logic to the above statement IF the voter in question (who has decided to vote third party in '08)
1) is not a registered Republican and
2) was never going to vote for McCain in the first place
Remember 1992, when Republicans (as many of them still do) blamed Ross Perot for GHW Bush's defeat by Bill Clinton? The Republican crybabies got it wrong then and apparently many of them are getting it wrong now, well before the election. They blamed a lot of folks (who were never going to vote for GHW Bush UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES and who weren't registered Republicans) for handing the Presidency to Clinton. How can you in all honesty blame people for your aging candidate's poorly run campaign on those who wanted somebody else? Remember that video of the President fainting at the dinner table of the Japanese Prime Minister prior to the election? Remember his ominous "New World Order" comment in Bush's speeches in 1990 and 1991? Remember his "Read my lips!" lie? Remember how it was being said that Bush "didn't have his heart in running again and it showed"? If you run a lousy campaign and lie to the American people, you deserve to lose! But (Republicans) blaming Perot and those who voted for him is a lot like liberals always blaming crime on anyone BUT the criminal!
Remember how they blamed Pat Buchanan instead of Bob Dole in 1996 for handing Clinton another 4 years? Newt Gingrich and other supposed "conservatives" who pushed NAFTA through for Clinton in 1994 and had betrayed real conservatives in other areas--along with being blamed by the MNM in 1994 for "shutting down the Government"--all of these plus the continued good economy in 1996 AND YET ANOTHER OLD BILLIONAIRE RINO (this one, with one arm) and his liberal idiot sidekick Jack Kemp were the REAL reasons why Clinton won re-election, NOT Pat Buchanan's "pulling Republican voters away from Bush"!
I haven't been a Republican since 1996. Does that mean that 12 years after leaving that party, I'm to blame a McCain loss to Obama in November even though I would never have voted for McCain under ANY circumstances? Of course not!
A case could be made for REGISTERED REPUBLICANS who vote third party in this election having betrayed McCain, but no one else. And even some of them--the more conservative registered Republicans--shouldn't be blamed for voting for a third party candidate as McCain is very simply a pro-war liberal, someone who is diametrically opposed to everything they stand for.
But, don't let "logic" get in the way of any preconceived notions!
Considering the 3 potential probables, it is too late to cry.
We can only hope that Congress can block many of policies of whichever one wins. However, Congress is wrought with its own problems, self interest, pork barrelling, corruption.
Islam's war against the west will inevitably bring the US a nuclear strike. The persistent open borders are a hot potato that will utterly destroy the party in power when it happens. I prefer that the borders be closed - but barring that, let it be the liberals who are destroyed if we're not going to move to prevent it.
This is as obvious and foreseeable as the earlier attacks on September eleventh. Aside from the loss we all will have of family and friends WHEN not if this happens, I recognize that the party who emerges in power will be able to radically reshape government the United States. Many on the left foresee this as well, and are actively working to keep our defenses weak.
I therefore am willing to sacrifice important pieces to win the game. Winning the white house or congress are less important than closing the borders. A candidate who could win an office, at the cost of placing someone in office that the left could justifiably claim failed to aggressively defend America costs conservatism control of the board.
By the same token I will not move to save a socially liberal republican candidate merely to defeat the democrat. Sometimes control of the board is more important than saving every pawn.
If I get a liberal in office who votes liberal while claiming (unchallenged) to represent the party with a conservative platform, then my voice is even more unheard than if a liberal democrat is in office. It means that conservatives will vote for anyone who claims conservatism, even if they are to the left of Hillary Clinton. It also means that the Republican party did this eyes wide open, believing that I (and other conservatives) would vote for a yellow dog if it was a republican. Sorry RNC that only works with democrats.
Semper Fidelis
McCain has already truly betrayed conservatives and conservatism for decades on a variety of issues. Repeatedly stabbing conservatives in the back is truly not going to help McCain with either conservative support or votes from conservatives in the general election. Many in the Republican Party as well as many of the general public have been tracking McCain’s political moves and personal life for a long time, and they truly are very disappointed with what they see from McCain.
You for real? If Newt Gingrich wasn't a conservative then, well what's your standard for a conservative?
Tell me who you're going to vote for, and why. Stop your bellyaching about why you don't support one candidate or the other, how about telling us who you support and why we should support them, too!
I have no intention of voting for McCain; this may be the first election I'm sitting out since 1990.
I agree. I vote for the candidate that stands behind restoring the Bill of Rights’ role in federal government and actively promotes smaller, less intrusive government. Any candidate that doesn’t stand for those issues is a candidate that doesn’t want my vote.
“If Bush’s opponent had not been Hanoi John Kerry, I would not have voted in the last election.”
In 2008 the folks who nominated John Kerry have come up with Barry the Red Obama. Have fun deciding what to do now.
Neither choice is better for America ... which is what you fail to grasp.
Has it occurred to you that a McCain Presidency would spell doom for Conservativism? And that the outcome would be insignificantly different than voting third party? Has it?
Ponder the likelihood of McCain having a sufficient majority of Republicans in Congress (not to mention Conservatives) to further his agenda. Then consider The likelihood of him working with Democrats (has he's shown the willingness to do in the past) to build his Presidential legacy.
After due consideration, tell me there's a difference...
****************
Groucho Marx (to pretty lady at dinner): Would you sleep with tonight me for $52 million?
Pretty Lady (laughing): Of course!
Groucho (leering wildly): How about for $10?
Lady: Mr. Marx! What sort of girl do you think I am, anyway?!?
Groucho: We've already established what sort of girl you are. Now we're just haggling over the price.
*****************
In precisely the same fashion: Team Juan's shills have just as plainly established what they are, as well.
Not something I'd ever likely feel proud of, myself.
Our country will survive Obama and McCain.
McCains base are RINO’s or as I like to refer to them, Socialist Republicans.
Conservatives, even those who are republicans owe McCain nothing.
McCain has stated that he doesn’t need our votes. I have no problem with that, but I get the feeling that his fellow travelers know better.
If McCain wants the conservative vote, he knows to find it and how to secure it.
We all need to stand firm and no longer allow the RNC to assume we have no where else to go.
There is no reason any conservative should at this point vote for him.
SCOTUS- He will have to reach across the ailse.
His allowing 15 million illegals in will add to the voting rolls of the DNC.
While Obama and Clinton say they will remove the troops they can’t and have admitted as much.
McCains amnesty plan will cost trillions, so he will have increase spending.
All in all I will at this time vote McCain.
He he wants my vote he knows how to find me.
McCain has stated that he doesnt need our votes. I have no problem with that, but I get the feeling that his fellow travelers know better.
Yup. See my tagline. ;)
Darn it! I must be really slow. I can't count the number of times I have been beaten to the punch by someone who says the exact same thing I wanted to say.
Bravo to you for an accurate observation.
McCain said he doesn’t need my vote, thereby releasing me from voting for him.
“....which is what you fail to grasp.”
BS.
I’m not understanding how any of these super conservatives can claim McCain is not a conservative. All you have to do is look at the numbers. The American Conservative Union, for example, rates the candidates with a score from 0 to 100 with 100 being the most conservative. Look:
McCain: 82.3
Paul: 82.26
Thompson: 86
Clinton: 9
Edwards: 10
Obama: 8
http://www.crosstabs.org/blogs/mschuyler/2008/jan/16/mccain_is_a_better_conservative_than_most
Take your self interest elsewhere.
While the vote for McCain would be worthless, a large number of people voting for a solid conservative candidate could help conservatism by not only making a "statement" (PR), but by possibly helping that party to be in a stronger financial position in the 2010 or 2012 elections.
Therefore, a vote for a third party is, in at least 30 million cases, not a vote for Obama, while a vote for McCain may in fact be a vote to intentioanlly not help the conservative cause.
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