Was Ebola Behind the Black Death?

ABC News ^ | July 30, 2014 | Jen Sterling

[2ndDivisionVet]

Controversial new research suggests that contrary to the history books, the "Black Death" that devastated medieval Europe was not the bubonic plague, but rather an Ebola-like virus.

History books have long taught the Black Death, which wiped out a quarter of Europe's population in the Middle Ages, was caused by bubonic plague, spread by infected fleas that lived on black rats. But new research in England suggests the killer was actually an Ebola-like virus transmitted directly from person to person.

The Black Death killed some 25 million Europeans in a devastating outbreak between 1347 and 1352, and then reappeared periodically for more than 300 years. Scholars had thought flea-infested rats living on ships brought the disease from China to Italy and then the rest of the continent.

But researchers Christopher Duncan and Susan Scott of the University of Liverpool say that the flea-borne bubonic plague could not have torn across Europe the way the Black Death did....

[ClearCase_guy]

Why is it called Bubonic Plague? Because is causes Buboes.
What is a bubo? A swollen lymph node, principally in the groin or armpit.
What causes the lymph node to swell? It fills with bacteria.
How is Bubonic Plague treated today? Anti-biotics.

What is Ebola?

A virus.

[Argus]

Black Death is obviously racissssst.

[2ndDivisionVet]

So you don’t think those doctors sited know those basic facts?

[ClearCase_guy]

Honestly, I think people like to get published.

Bubonic plague has been around for a long time. We have it today, we study the bacillus, we treat it with penicillin. We dig up old mass graves from the 14th century and we find evidence that the disease then is the same disease as today. We look at art from the 14th century and we see the buboes represented in plague victims.

Now we have a filovirus and some doctor thinks it's bubonic plague.

It ain't.

[SoCal Pubbie]

Some cases of the Black Death did not fit the symptoms of bubonic plague.

[Marie]

I agree with you that the Black Death was caused by Bubonic Plague because newer research has found evidence for Plague in the mass graves.

However, lymph nodes can swell massively, and turn purple, in response to any kind of infection - not just bacterial.

[Attention Surplus Disorder]

No, no, Black hole, talk to Don Lemon.

[null and void]

The game of Ebola Roulette continues...

*click* spin *click* spin *click* spin…BANG!

Eeeee-bolllll-aaaaaa ping!

Bring Out Your Dead

We’re gonna need

a bigger cart!

Post to me or FReep mail to be on/off the Bring Out Your Dead ping list.

The purpose of the “Bring Out Your Dead” ping list (formerly the “Ebola” ping list) is very early warning of emerging pandemics, as such it has a high false positive rate.

So far the false positive rate is 100%.

At some point we may well have a high mortality pandemic, and likely as not the “Bring Out Your Dead” threads will miss the beginning entirely.

*sigh* Such is life, and death...

[null and void]

ping

[Adder]

Buboic plague dna has been found in the teeth of victims. They seem to center their ideas on rats spreading the disease but it was fleas that did the biting.
There is evidence that it was caused by a bacterium. There is no evidence it was a virus.

[ClearCase_guy]

I won't dispute that, but you know that's not terribly convincing.

Look also at the disease vector. Plague is endemic in the marmot population of central Asia. In the 1200s the Mongols were on the move, the Silk Road got disrupted, and people travelled heavily in marmot territory (note that the plague is now endemic in prairie dog populations in our own Southwest).

Caravans and merchant ships took plague (in rats) to port cities all over Europe. The paths have been tracked. Animals were constantly close to people, and people had poor hygiene. Fleas got around. Rats were one way, but you didn't need rats. Fleas can travel on horses and in clothing.

Plague is very well studied -- the Black Death was a huge historical phenomenon.

This new theory seems to imply that travelers from Darkest Africa were coming to Europe in 1348. Pretty sure there is no evidence for this. We know where the reservoir for Ebola is -- basically Zaire and neighboring countries. That was a bit "out of the way" at the time. By contrast, we know that the Silk Road was heavily traveled, and we know it veered into marmot territory.

I don't see this theory having anything to back it up.

[Marie]

I posted an article about this book last night. It was published in 2004/5. In 2010, researchers did a massive study of mass graves all over the world. Not only did they find the genes for Bubonic Plague, but they managed to isolate the three different strains of the disease that ravaged half the planet.

They actually shed light on the transmission and clarified some historical confusion.

The authors have some interesting points and they did a good job following the historical record, but the geneticists have taken away all doubt.

Now, here’s what I’m wondering. There were three different strains that did the damage, all mutated from the other. We know that those small mutations can have a dramatic impact on how a disease progresses.

The fact is, that bastard bacteria did behave like a hemorrhagic fever more than than it behaved like Plague. (mortality, transmission rates, symptoms)

Now days, Plague isn’t as terrifying because we have antibiotics, but the old Plague left us a nice record for what Ebola can do. And we don’t have a neat little pill or shot to save us from this. (The only thing worse is a mosquito-driven hemorrhagic fever. Then the damn thing has managed to become airborne in it’s own way. Our situation could be worse.)

[SoCal Pubbie]

Anthrax has been found in parts London where cattle was kept at the time of one of the outbreaks. Can’t remember which one. That being said, I am somewhat dubious of these theories but some experts studying the science believe otherwise. I don’t think the possibility can be so quickly dismissed.

[Prospero]

Any cursory study of the Justinian plague and the very documented Great Mortality of 1349 will show that Ebola - one of many hemorrhagic fevers, presenting symptoms of a virus in its earliest phases of trans-generational development - shows they are not the same diseases.

The symptoms are very different, for one thing, and while one can argue convincingly that the respiratory and lymphatic (septicemic) symptoms of associated with Yersinia pestis might have originated from another bacterial family, it wasn't the virus that causes Ebola.

[Smokin' Joe]

Ping...

A link to this thread has been posted on the Ebola Surveillance Thread

Short answer: No.

Bubonic/pneumonic Plague, The Spanish (1918) Flu, and Ebola may all cause cytokine storms, though and that may add to the lethality of the pathogens.

[ClearCase_guy]

Anthrax is another bacterial disease. It comes from fungus found in dirt and is typically picked up by grazing animals (cattle, sheep). People who work with these animals (sheep shearing, etc.) can easily be exposed through inhalation.

In the Middle Ages, wool was a major industry, and anthrax was probably something of a common problem.

But that has nothing to do with the Ebola virus.

[SoCal Pubbie]

I know it doesn’t. I was simply mentioning it as an example of what some claim were side by side diseases causing the Black Death.

[acad1228]

Why is it called Bour ubonic Plague? Because is causes Buboes. What is a bubo? A swollen lymph node, principally in the groin or armpit. What causes the lymph node to swell? It fills with bacteria. How is Bubonic Plague treated today? Anti-biotics. What is Ebola? A virus.

Buboes, the swollen lymph gland, is where we get the child-like term "boo-boo", for any random injury a kid might suffer.

[Oberon]

How is Bubonic Plague treated today? Anti-biotics.

If you read the literature carefully, there is evidence that the "Black Death" consisted of more than one infectious agent. The most common and best understood is bubonic plague, of course, but this infection could also manifest in the lungs or the circulatory system with different symptoms. There's also some evidence that another, as-yet-unknown infectious disease was involved and ran rampant along with the plague bacteria.