Deportations are a Bitter Pill

8/30/2016 | S. Hughes

[FightThoughtControl]

Thank you for sharing this information of which I was not aware. It certainly helps me improve my perspective.

I still wouldn't say that the generalization is totally unfounded. Notice that I qualified the generalization with "because of their economic status or cultural background". I suppose I should qualify/clarify further. My intuition is that human nature makes anyone (citizen or otherwise), who is of limited economic means, more susceptible to the siren call of big government. And to reiterate, I am speaking about averages not individuals. The statistics in the Heritage Foundation report “The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer” seem to corroborate my intuition.

Again, thank you for having this discussion. I am learning things.

[FightThoughtControl]

Thanks for the lowdown on "tl;dr". I hadn't understood.

Summary:

Deportations of illegal immigrants are a bitter but necessary medicine to promote national cohesion, reverse some of the democracy-subverting importation of votes, and save at least $100 billion annually at a time of soaring deficits and debt.

We (meaning me and people like me; not necessarily you) are being deliberately duped to hide the huge scale of the problem.

[FightThoughtControl]

I support family reunification so long as it's not abused. Based on the official government statistics, I am very suspicious that much of what is happening is as follows.

Example 1: An illegal immigrant has a child in the US. That child is automatically a US citizen. Once that child becomes 18, he not only can obtain green cards for his illegal parents, but he also can obtain green cards for other family members who are not yet in the country. After 5 years of having a green card, these people can become citizens themselves and obtain green cards for additional family members abroad.

Example 2: An illegal immigrant marries a citizen within the immigrant community. Go to Example 1.

[Leep]

One of the top 10 best threads ever!

[FightThoughtControl]

I am not advocating for people to become like Miley Cyrus. I am merely advocating for immigrants to embrace American identity and loyalty over their ethnic or national origin subgroups. Even though not all Americans but some immigrants do, I'd like all immigrants to embrace things like:

- The American Dream

- Constitutional principles such as limited government

- traditional American core ideals such as hard work, overcoming disadvantage, personal responsibility, equal treatment before the law, meritocracy, etc.

- Speaking English.

I wish these things not because I think everyone should be exactly alike or that people can't appreciate their heritage. Rather, a quick review of history tells me that multiculturalism (ie, emphasizing subgroup identity over national idea) is a very bad idea. Large competing subgroups within a country tend towards conflict.

I'd just like to live in peace and let others live in peace so long as they're not harming me or telling me how to live my life. I'm a live and let live kind of guy.

[FightThoughtControl]

I personally agree with you. However, I will not be able to persuade many people by shouting at them - especially because their resistance largely arises because they see illegal immigrants as people who are just trying to make a better life for themselves and their families. So I put myself in their shoes. If I lived in some expletive-hole country, I would want to move my family to America, too - especially since traitors like Obama are practically begging them to come. This doesn't give them the right to come here illegally, but I can understand it.

By the way, Free Republic was not my target audience for this essay. My target audience was liberals and moderates. I came to Free Republic for help spreading the word because Reddit was censoring me.

[FightThoughtControl]

I agree with you to a large extent. However, if you re-read the essay, then you will see that I bend over backwards to qualify my generalizations, to emphasize that I speak of averages, and to express my support for anyone who does not fit those generalizations.

By ignoring that averages have a real impact on reality, then we allow the opposition to silence a valid part of the debate. I am very open to your suggestions about how to refine the message.

I am going to post another thread today. This one will be very short, but I hope that it will clarify why we should care about all immigration and not just illegal immigration. Standby.

[Lazamataz]

Perfect. Yes, you will fit here. :)

[FightThoughtControl]

Thanks for your support. I am fairly battered and bruised from trying to get people talking (aside from here on Free Republic).

[NorthMountain]

The real question is: “Should we deport the bastards by strapping JATO bottles to their backs, or should we throw them across the border with trebuchets?”

[FightThoughtControl]

Although the trebuchet idea sounds entertaining, I’m guessing that most people will just leave on their own if they know they’ll be forcibly deported otherwise.

[Leep]

“Thanks for your support.”

Sorry, didn’t give you my support.
The response to the article is what made the thread great.

Its to bad because most of the article make sense except as others have pointed out statements like..

“Most of us empathize with illegal immigrants and understand why they would come”

Discussion over.

[spintreebob]

If you want to learn the Mexican culture as it pertains to politics and role of government, get the DVD FOR GREATER GLORY starring Andy Garcia and Eva Longoria.

This shows the post-revolution origins of the PAN party, which is the Republican Party of Mexico and held 2 of the last 3 Presidencies. PAN is strong in the Northern Mexican states. PRD-Socialist is in Michoacan and Southern states. PRI-Corrupt-Democrats is strong everywhere.

[FightThoughtControl]

To reiterate, Free Republic was not my target audience for this essay. My target audience was liberals and moderates, whom I am trying to persuade. Much of their resistance arises because they see illegal immigrants as people who are just trying to make a better life for their families. So I put myself in their shoes. If I lived in some expletive-hole country, then I would want to come to America, too - especially because traitors like Obama are practically begging them to come. This doesn't give them the right to come here, but I can understand.

I came to Free Republic for help spreading the word because Reddit was censoring me. Please read my other replies to get a better idea of who I am. I'm guessing that you are just misunderstanding my intentions. I also completely understand why you would be suspicious of me - I am new here and the internet is full of trolls pretending to be your friend.

[FightThoughtControl]

Well, I was going to post two more essays today: "The Immigration Shell Game" and "A Lack of Evidence for Voter Fraud".

Unfortunately, the website gave me this message "As a relatively new account, you may only post 1 article every 24 hour period." So I'll post one this evening and the other tomorrow.

If you want to see "A Lack of Evidence for Voter Fraud" sooner, then this one is already available on Reddit/Politics. This essay fortunately hasn't been censored yet. Perhaps, it's the title or the fact that the post links to the essay on the Huffington Post. I know - the Huffington Post! Super biased. But again, how many liberals and moderates do you know that would read a Free Republic article?

If you want to see "The Immigration Shell Game" sooner, then I will post it in a few minutes on Reddit/The_Donald.

[FightThoughtControl]

Thanks for your recommendation. I will check it out.

[Nifster]

I am shouting at no one

I don’t know why you think the RINO liberal lefty approach is going to fly here at FR

Two thirds of the country agrees with Trump on immigration....that’s good enough

[FightThoughtControl]

I didn't say you were shouting at anyone. I just said that I won't be able to persuade anyone by shouting.

And two thirds of the country of the country is not good enough. We must try to reach out in the swing states. There is too much at stake.

[Leep]

“Two thirds of the country agrees with Trump on immigration....that’s good enough”

I guess that’s the part that i don’t get here. What great need is there for a dialog with the 1/3 who have some sort of death wish or are profiting handsomely from allowing the gate crashers to stay? The same folks who support ‘sanctuary cities’ and the like. Are they going to suddenly change their minds? extremely doubtful.

Trump is straight forward, he isn’t pandering, and his support is slowly growing among the so called minorities.

[FightThoughtControl]

To more specifically answer your question - why I thought the essay might fly here.

I am not trying to persuade FR readers to support deportations. I'm guessing that most FR readers already agree to some extent. I'm just trying to offer a way to frame the issue for FR readers, who know liberals or moderates who might be persuaded.

I live in a place where most people assume I'm a racist monster for simply wanting to enforce the law and revise overall immigration policy to serve American interests. Sadly, I am risking threats of violence to my family to stick my neck out and do the right thing. Doesn't it sicken you that someone should actually fear violence for peacefully expressing their defensible (even if unpopular) political views? Fortunately, I am a second amendment guy.