Posted on 05/03/2018 9:32:47 AM PDT by Oldpuppymax
What is the duty of the Church concerning poverty? This is one of those areas where the Church has unfortunately surrendered its influence by either adopting the mission of the government or embracing the worldview of the culture, neither of which is consistent with what the Bible teaches.
The Bible, in fact, speaks very plainly about the poor. And since the duty of the Church is to preserve knowledge of God, it is incumbent upon us to correct misunderstandings regarding the proper role of God’s people in this and other areas. In so doing, we preserve a free and civil society for all.
As Christians, we are commanded to obey those authorities whose endeavors remain in God’s order. But when those authorities seek to emancipate themselves from the order that God designed by inserting themselves into all of life and making absolute claims on those it governs, it is the duty of the Church to stand athwart the usurpers.
We provided proper context for Romans 13, that most misunderstood passage of the Bible employed by those who would suggest that we make no distinction between a good government and a government that serves itself, explaining how Paul, Peter and all of the martyrs of the early Church surrendered their temporal lives to remain faithful to Christ in the face of demands that they render complete loyalty to Caesar.
Remember: Jesus Christ was not run over by a chariot; He did not die of cancer, nor was He convicted of theft or murder. Our Lord was crucified for a political crime against the Roman State. The King of the Jews was deemed a threat to Caesar because Rome would not tolerate any rivals to its authority, even if (or perhaps especially when) that authority...
(Excerpt) Read more at thecoachsteam.com ...
If government has a role - tell me exactly at what level of government? why?
-—As Christians, we are commanded to obey those authorities whose endeavors remain in God’s order. But when those authorities seek to emancipate themselves from the order that God designed by inserting themselves into all of life and making absolute claims on those it governs, it is the duty of the Church to stand athwart the usurpers.-—
I assume the author is referring to Romans ch 13.
And is suggesting that ‘resistance to tyranny is obedience to God’ (as is often said on FR).
Church.
Government’s responsibility is to create and protect an environment where citizens may prosper. Those that fall through the cracks, for whatever reason, are wards of “charity”, not the government. The reason is simple: It is about VOLUNTARILY giving, not state enforced, via the power of the gun.
And those programs seek to legitimize their existence by keeping people on the dole, dependent, so that such programs keep getting government money and the flunkies keep their jobs.
In contrast, a local and voluntary organization has a genuine interest in helping people (unless virtue signaling is involved, thus seeking government money and shaking down corporate donors). The churches have given up their role as a local voluntary organization in the community.
Church.
But it only works if government would get out of the way.
I see scripture directed at Governments, The church, and Individuals to take care of the poor.
That any particular scripture is directed at one of the three does not absolve the others of their responsibility.
Scripture also links the length of rule to how the ruler treats the poor and needy. If “We the people” wish to continue to rule this country, we better heed that. (Jer 22)
Yeshua didn’t tell us to help the poor by paying huge taxes, so government could _take_care_ of them.
Yeshua didn’t tell us to give to the _church_ so they could do it; although this is far better than the government.
Yeshua told _us_ to take care of the poor. That means volunteer, minister directly and carefully give to organizations which help the poor, widows and orphans.
Hands down... First the immediate family, then the extended family. Then the church.... Then the local community. At last, and bare minimum, a stipend help..from the Feds. But WHATever they give will make the situation worse. Best for them to just deliver the mail and defend the country. Let people who have their own cash be elected, and remove all wages from representatives. Only those who PAY taxes should also vote.
At best they do so within their membership but even there often referred to outside organizations.
We have a wonderful grocery give away......but i noted most who take drive the latest vehicles and are often foreigners because they think it’s just free food for any who want it. They do not have an understanding of it’s for the poor nor if they do don’’t care. Their home culture norm is to take what you can get that they bring with them.
It’s important to remember that government can’t be generous to one group without stealing from another. That’s not Charity; it’s robbery.
At the end of the day, that is the core problem.
Contrast Jefferson's observations with the mess in urban America today!!
Sadly the Church, whether it admits it or not, does conform to the ways of the word, which is why many have embraced collectivism. There are even some leaders in the Church that claim the government taxing and giving meets the command for them to give to the poor.
Pure hogwash of course. Responsibility number one = MYSELF. So sick of some Christians declaring that we should all sell our belongings and give to the poor. If they are so committed they should lead by example. Second = the Church. That’s it.
Bump
Some folks want to solve poverty. I say, leave ‘em alone. They’re poor.
Don’t take their poverty away. Good lord, man, it’s all they’ve got!
Christ urged US to be charitable to the poor and needy. He didn’t put that obligation on GOVERNMENT.
"Responsibility to the poor: Government [??? emphasis added] or Church? Part I"
FR: Never Accept the Premise of Your Opponent’s Argument
Beware of the vague term “government” in the USA!
This is because the Founding States made the Constitution to deliberately limit (cripple) the federal government’s powers while reserving the care of the people uniquely to the states.
This is evidenced by the following excerpts from Supreme Court case opinions, the writings of Thomas Jefferson, and clarification by Rep. John Bingham, a constitutional lawmaker.
“Congress is not empowered to tax for those purposes which are within the exclusive province of the States.” Justice John Marshall, Gibbons v. Ogden, 1824.
”From the accepted doctrine that the United States is a government of delegated powers, it follows that those not expressly granted, or reasonably to be implied from such as are conferred, are reserved to the states, or to the people. To forestall any suggestion to the contrary, the Tenth Amendment was adopted. The same proposition, otherwise stated, is that powers not granted are prohibited [emphasis added].” —United States v. Butler, 1936.
"Our citizens have wisely formed themselves into one nation as to others and several States as among themselves. To the united nation belong our external and mutual relations; to each State, severally, the care of our persons [emphasis added], our property, our reputation and religious freedom.” —Thomas Jefferson: To Rhode Island Assembly, 1801.
”... the care of the property, the liberty, and the life of the citizen, under the solemn sanction of an oath imposed by your Federal Constitution, is in the States, and not in the Federal Government [emphases added].” —Rep. John Bingham, Congressional Globe, 1866. (See about middle of 3rd column.)
So the question of “responsibility” of the poor is a concern of churches and state governments imo, not the federal government, ultimately up to the legal majority voters of a given state.
The corrupt, post-17th Amendment (17A) feds are only interested in buying votes imo, when they use state revenues stolen by means of unconstitutional taxes to feed the poor.
Regarding churches, note the rule of 2 Thesolianians 3:10-12, that if a man will not work, he shall not eat.
We really need to repeal the ill-conceived 17A.
The 16th Amendment needs to disappear too.
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