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Gunfights that Changed LE Tactics
Am Shooting Journal ^ | 8/10/2018 | C Hodkins

Posted on 08/10/2018 4:52:21 AM PDT by w1n1

In the past 32 years, U.S. law enforcement tactics, procedures, and policies have evolved because of these tragic incidents.
Not all of us are LEO’s but their training in gunfight tactics have trickled down to private citizen training as well.

The gear and training employed by officers is much different today, partly as a result of the infamous FBI Miami shootout in 86. There have been other game-changing gunfights in the last quarter century. The following segment examines each of them and how they changed LE tactics, procedures, and policies.

The following are compilation of Police Mag interviews with LEO trainers, firearms experts, and tactical instructors to assess the lasting impacts of these events on patrol officers.

Carl Drega Rampage Aug. 19, 1997: Bloomfield, Vt
Recluse Carl Drega took his one-man war with society across state lines on Aug. 19, 1997, launching a rampage that started with the murder of two New Hampshire troopers attempting to ticket him in the parking lot of a LaPerle’s IGA market in Colebrook.
Drega, was armed with an AR-15 and ballistic vest, stole the trooper’s cruiser and drove to Columbia, where he killed a judge and newspaper editor.
Following the incident, rural agencies began equipping their officers with patrol rifles, says Masaad Ayoob (former director of Lethal Force Institute), who was a reserve officer in New Hampshire at the time.

FBI Miami Shootout April 11, 1986: Pinecrest, FL
This close-quarters gun battle involved eight FBI agents and two heavily armed suspects during a felony stop in southern Miami.
The FBI’s after-action report solidified Hall’s belief, because it showed that Michael Platt and William Matix—an Army Ranger and Army MP of the 101st Airborne, respectively—sustained fatal wounds yet continued to bring the fight to the agents.
The agents had fired .38 Special and 9mm rounds from revolvers and semi-auto pistols, which lacked adequate stopping power, FBI officials said afterward.
Only Special Agent Edmundo Mireles deployed a long gun, Remington 870 pump-action shotgun.
In the aftermath of the tragedy, the FBI phased out revolvers and .38 Special ammunition. Agents were also eventually issued H&K MP5 submachine guns for high-risk encounters.

North Hollywood Bank Robbery Feb. 28, 1997: Los Angeles, CA
The Los Angeles officers who found themselves under a barrage of heavy machine-gun fire from the North Hollywood bank robbers quickly realized that their 9mm pistols and shotguns were ineffective against the armored gunmen.
LEO's typically trained at 25 yards with 9mm handguns fired from 70 yards, attempted to answer the military-style rifles—a full-auto Romanian AIM AK-47 variant, Norinco Type 56 S-1, semi-auto HK91, and modified Bushmaster XM15 E2S—used by the suspects. Their loaded 3,300 rounds of ammo were in boxes and drum magazines inside the trunk of their white Chevy Celebrity. Read the full gunfights that changed LE tactics story here.


TOPICS: History; Hobbies; Military/Veterans; Outdoors
KEYWORDS: badwriting; banglist; blog; blogpimp; donatetofr; getaneditor; gunfights; momsbasement; pimp; police; whiningaboutblogs
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1 posted on 08/10/2018 4:52:21 AM PDT by w1n1
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To: w1n1

The 40 and 10mm are much better against barriers than the 9mm


2 posted on 08/10/2018 5:13:15 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: w1n1

This does not read well. Needs an editor for both grammar and content. -GP


3 posted on 08/10/2018 5:16:39 AM PDT by Fester Chugabrew (Lock. Her. Up.)
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To: w1n1; All

During my extensive weapons training in the Navy we dissected the Michael Platt and William Matix shoot out for hours and hours and hours...The mistakes that the agents made were many but one thing I learned is that while revolvers are reliable, when you have been shot in the hand and you have lost your glasses it is much easier in my opinion to insert a loaded magazine into your hand gun than to try and load a revolver.


4 posted on 08/10/2018 5:19:02 AM PDT by areukiddingme1 (areukiddingme1 is a synonym for a Retired U.S. Navy Chief Petty Officer and tired of liberal BS.))
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To: w1n1
Don't bring a small gun to a big gun gunfight.

Goes to show which gun is "best" depends on the situation.

5 posted on 08/10/2018 5:20:27 AM PDT by BitWielder1 (I'd rather have Unequal Wealth than Equal Poverty.)
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To: w1n1

32 years - that’s about a third of a century, not a quarter of a century.


6 posted on 08/10/2018 5:22:04 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: w1n1

I read a detailed account of the Miami shootout by Ayoob.

The FBI learned a few things but also made an incorrect judgement regarding the 9mm.

The fact that the FBI agents were under armed was true. Mini-14s vs pistols is just not a fair fight. Even the shotguns were not their equal at first.

A big part of the problem is the bad guys just would not go down even when they were basically dead. The 9mms had performed properly including tearing the aorta off one guy who incredibly kept going for almost a minute.


7 posted on 08/10/2018 5:27:36 AM PDT by yarddog
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To: JudgemAll

Doesn’t matter what weapon is deployed if LEO’s refuse to take action BROWARD COUNTY. New name is COWARD COUNTY.


8 posted on 08/10/2018 5:32:04 AM PDT by ping jockey (mohamed sucks)
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To: yarddog

Were they semi auto Mini-14s or AC-556 (full auto Mini 14)


9 posted on 08/10/2018 5:35:02 AM PDT by DCBryan1 (Quit calling them liberals, progs, socialists, or democrats. Call them what they are: COMMUNISTS!!!!)
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To: w1n1

For later.

L


10 posted on 08/10/2018 5:35:39 AM PDT by Lurker (President Trump isn't our last chance. President Trump is THEIR last chance.)
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To: DCBryan1

I don’t know. Probably would not have made much difference.


11 posted on 08/10/2018 5:39:11 AM PDT by yarddog
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To: BitWielder1

Back during the heyday of prohibition and classic gangsterism there were plenty of Thompsons and BARs floating abround.


12 posted on 08/10/2018 5:45:17 AM PDT by Bonemaker (invictus maneo)
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To: w1n1

About the Miami shootout:

Brave FBI agents in an elite unit but they made many mistakes that veteran street Police Officers wouldn’t have made. This might have been because FBI agents don’t make many or any traffic stops.

The agents had other weapons available to them such as AR 15’s and H&K MP 5’s but choose not to take them.

The fight was ended by an agents 38 special revolver.


13 posted on 08/10/2018 6:02:09 AM PDT by VicVanleeuwenhoek
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To: w1n1

Someone forgot to tell this to Coward County.


14 posted on 08/10/2018 6:07:37 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (#DeplorableMe #BitterClinger #HillNO! #cishet #MyPresident #MAGA #Winning #covfefe)
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To: Fester Chugabrew

No, of course it doesn’t, and yes, it does. Always, every time, every day, at the same time every morning.


15 posted on 08/10/2018 6:15:44 AM PDT by OKSooner (Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE): The 1200 pound gorilla...)
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To: yarddog
...The 9mms had performed properly...

One of the agents who was killed, used multiple reloads and fired 29 shots from his service weapon. He never hit either of the assailants.

Two other agents lost their primary weapons as they came screeching to a stop at the scene. The weapons were stored loose on the passenger seats and bounced out of reach.

Clouds of road dust raised from the stopped cars made it almost impossible to see in the first minute of the incident.

The caliber of ammunition used was largely irrelevant.

16 posted on 08/10/2018 6:28:29 AM PDT by flamberge (What next?)
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To: areukiddingme1
much easier in my opinion to insert a loaded magazine into your hand gun than to try and load a revolver.

Speed loaders.


17 posted on 08/10/2018 6:43:54 AM PDT by USS Alaska (Kill all mooselimb, terrorist savages, with extreme prejudice! Deus Vult!)
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To: w1n1
Drega, was armed with an AR-15 and ballistic vest, stole the trooper’s cruiser and drove to Columbia, where he killed a judge and newspaper editor

The media was at risk prior to Trump?

18 posted on 08/10/2018 6:47:31 AM PDT by 1Old Pro
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To: USS Alaska; All

Absolutely, I’ve used speed loaders, and I like speed loaders.

However, in the FBI case I mentioned, Special Agent John Hanlon had been shot in the hand and made loading a revolver impossible.


19 posted on 08/10/2018 7:01:50 AM PDT by areukiddingme1 (areukiddingme1 is a synonym for a Retired U.S. Navy Chief Petty Officer and tired of liberal BS.))
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To: yarddog
“tearing the aorta off one guy who incredibly kept going for almost a minute.”
An adrenaline rush is an amazing thing.
20 posted on 08/10/2018 7:28:45 AM PDT by MCF (If my home can't be my Castle, then it will be my Alamo)
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