Skip to comments.eCat: Reaction To Independent Report
Posted on 05/22/2013 9:22:04 PM PDT by Kevmo
eCat: Reaction To Independent Report
Posted on May 23rd, 2013
They say that there are only two things you can be certain of death and taxes, but there appears to be another. Controversy and outrage when the scientific industrial complex feels threatened.
In the wake of the independent report on Andrea Rossis eCat the response has been mostly positive, with headlines such as Cold fusion reactor independently verified, has 10,000 times the energy density of gas from ExtremeTech and Forbess own Mark Gibbs with Finally, independent testing of Rossis eCat cold fusion device maybe the world will change after all. (Does no-one do short headlines these days? Ed).
On the other end of the scale New Energy Times editor and Widom-Larssen proponent Steven Krivit went on the offensive with Rossi Manipulates Academics to Create Illusion of Independent Tests.
In between the extremes of positivity and outright doom and gloom was Hank Mills summary eCat Validation Creates More Questions and I have to agree with his point where he feels the saga of Andrea Rossis E-Cat technology has been long and tedious and that I feel fatigued. Your not the only one Hank.
Still, its good to see that the reaction has been mainly positive and this report has helped blow away some of my own scepticism regarding the eCat. Unlike Krivit, I just cant see how there could possible be improprieties on such a scale and for so long.
The debates continue as to whether the report was truly independent, but it has to be said that extremely long tests from 6 or so high ranking academics with everything to lose from 3 world class Universities is enough to push the eCat status from who knows if it works to looking good.
The Cold Fusion/LENR Ping List
Not trying to say this is the case here, but some fairly bright people have been hoodwinked in the past. I think it’s okay to feel somewhat vindicated at this point, but I wouldn’t be too sure yet.
When this guy has a facility up and running successfully, that’s when I’ll begin to think we’ve turned the corner.
The Obama admin would probably pour in millions. Especially with it being “verified” and all.
Have they applied yet? Obama will probably speak in front of one and proclaim it a success.
The tax money is being wasted anyway, might as well waste some on this pie in the sky energy source.
If these scientists had concern for their reputations they would look at the ever changing stories of the e-cat and run from being part of the dog and pony show these demos are.
Put me on your ping list!
Heres Krivits take:
Rossi Manipulates Academics to Create Illusion of Independent Test
May 21, 2013 By Steven B. Krivit
On May 16, Hanno Essén, a theoretical physicist and lecturer at the Swedish Royal Institute of Technology, submitted a paper to arXiv, the physics pre-print server, and claimed that he and several co-authors performed an independent test of an E-Cat device that was built by Andrea Rossi. Essén submitted a revised version of the paper on May 20.
The authors of the paper did not perform an independent test; instead, they were participants in another Rossi demonstration and performed measurements on one of Rossis devices in his facility.
New Energy Times stopped counting the Rossi demonstrations after the 13th one on Feb. 12, 2012. (See Andrea Rossi Energy Catalyzer Master Timeline.)
The authors of the paper lack full knowledge of the type and preparation of the materials used in the reactor and the modulation of input power, which, according to the paper, were industrial trade secrets.
The authors didnt perform any calorimetry and used a method to measure temperature to extrapolate output power that neither they nor anyone in the field of low-energy nuclear reaction research has ever used to analyze for heat power or energy.
In response to a question from New Energy Times about whether he had full knowledge of how to perform and operate the experiment, Essén effectively confirmed that he had not replicated the experiment.
No, but I am sure that I could repeat it with some effort, Essén wrote.
Essén is the former chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Association, and his co-authors are Giuseppe Levi (University of Bologna), Evelyn Foschi (Italian National Institute of Nuclear Physics-Bologna), and Torbjörn Hartman, Bo Höistad, Roland Pettersson and Lars Tegnér (Uppsala University).
Andrea Rossi is a convicted white-collar criminal with a string of failed energy ventures. (Report #5: Rossis Profitable Career in Science) His most notorious endeavor was his effort between 1970 and 1990 to turn industrial waste into fuel. Rossis company produced only toxic waste and environmental damage to the land and groundwater in the Milan, Italy, area. (Rossis Italian Financial and Environmental Criminal History)
New Energy Times questioned Essén about the March 18-23, 2013, experiment that was, according to the paper, carried out by Essén and his co-authors.
SBK: In whose building/premises was the experiment performed?
HE: In Rossis facilities in Ferrara.
SBK: Who set up the experiment?
HE: Giuseppe Levi and Evelyn Foschi within the constraints set by Rossi.
SBK: Who purchased or acquired the materials used in the reactor?
SBK: Do you have full knowledge of the type and preparation of the materials used in the reactor?
SBK: Do you have full knowledge of how to perform and operate the experiment?
HE: No, but I am sure that I could repeat it with some effort.
SBK: Who acquired or supplied the instrumentation?
HE: Giuseppe Levi mainly, with some input from the Uppsala group.
SBK: Who tested and/or calibrated the instrumentation?
HE: Levi and Foschi did the main work, but several cross-checks were done by the rest of the participants. The temperature measurement cameras were checked on boiling water. The electric measurements were checked with standard resistors.
SBK: At any time during the 116 hours of the experiment was Rossi at any of the controls?
HE: Not that I recall. He showed us his ongoing projects in general but did not participate in the measurements.
SBK: Do you know of any other experiment performed in this field in which infrared measurements were made not just to acquire temperature readings but also to analyze for total heat enthalpy?
SBK: Do you know of any other experiment performed outside this field in which infrared measurements were made not just to obtain temperature readings but also to analyze for total heat enthalpy?
SBK: Is there any reason you did not use either mass-flow calorimetry or envelope calorimetry to analyze for total heat enthalpy?
HE: Yes, practical reasons. The current setup made it difficult. (Practical reasons determined by the reactor, its placement, and the available equipment.)
SBK: Who paid for the travel expenses of the Swedish participants in the test?
HE: All travel and living expenses were paid by Swedish and Bologna university sources.
Of course. For the most part this "report" on Rossi's latest illusion was only reported on Ecat and cold fusion fan sites. Gibbs is a blogger whose blog appears on Forbes website. He's not an employee of Forbes.
Simple. If the person who wrote the "report" can't be trusted then you can't believe what's in it. We know Rossi can't be trusted, the guy with the fake degree who has spent time in jail.
Okay, you’re on it.
The reason that thermal imaging is not typically used in the detection of LENR excess heat is that the amount of heat generated is usually small, so sensitive means are needed to extract the signal from the background. That is not the case here.
"SBK: Do you know of any other experiment performed outside this field in which infrared measurements were made not just to obtain temperature readings but also to analyze for total heat enthalpy?"
This basically shows Krivit's technological illiteracy. Thermal imaging is routinely used to determine heat balances in many fields of engineering. It is a vast improvement over past methods (typically "hot-wire" visual comparison) in places where it is difficult to impossible to place sensors. I've used the "hot wire" approach (long ago), and thermal cameras are MUCH better.
It's always small, in fact some would say non-existent. And that gives a reason why legitimate researchers aren't interested in LENR, even if it's real the results aren't interesting or useful.
The only ones who get large results are the con artists like Rossi, or the incompetent like George Miley.
This basically shows Krivit's technological illiteracy.
Who are you to judge Krivit?
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