Revisiting CV-59 USS Forrestal fire July 29 1967

various ^ | Nov 18, 2017 | beeuster2000

[beebuster2000]

With all the discussion of John McCain, and with the recent spate of Naval accidents, I found it most interesting to re-vist one of the most catastrophic accidents of the last 40 years, the fire on the USS Forrestal, which killed or injured 300 sailors and came close to losing the ship. Like recent Naval accidents, it was a series of unplanned and unforeseen events, combined with training lapses and poor judgements, all combined with insanely bad luck. And like recent Naval events incredible sailor heroism and self sacrifice when it counted.

PS: there has always been rumor about McCain role in the fire, but there is no evidence whatsoever he did anything but narrowly escape from his burning jet, which was parked next to the initial ignited jet struck by the rocket.

[beebuster2000]

there were at least four key elements of the accident:

-I had not appreciated until digging in the role of the dangerous and defective ordnance loaded on the ship days before. Outdated 1,000 pound iron bombs were known by the crew to be defective and suggested by lower ranks to be jettisoned over the side. Command decision was made to keep the ordnance and stack it on the deck. As the fire gained intensity, the bombs cooked off, with greatly enhanced explosive power, within minutes of heating, in variance to the one hour design cook off fire resistance time.

-the initial trigger for the fire was failure to follow procedure in securing an underwing rocket, which fired due to a power surge, hitting a fully loaded fuel and ordnance flight ready jet on deck.

-the initial cook of of the faulty ordnance killed the trained fire fighting crew.

-untrained sailors valiantly fought the fire, some hosing the deck with seawater, washing overboard the foam being spread by others. there was little back up training for fire crews in the event that the primary crew was unable to respond or was killed.

As a result of the fire, the Navy changed significant fire fighting protocols and it is now, apparently, mandatory to watch the film of the fire.

film posed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVgocdvcG0A

good article: https://maritime-executive.com/features/remembering-the-fire-on-uss-forrestal

[poconopundit]

It's an interesting case, beebuster.

I was a naval shipboard officer 1974 to 1983 stationed in the Pacific.

By that time, we had live firefighting on the naval base in San Diego and everybody had to go through a one day course.

Something I never forgot is the intense heat generated by a large fire. The technique used in my training was to have two fire hoses, each manned by a few sailors. One hose was for fighting the fire, and the second hose provided a protective shield of water for sailors fighting the fire.

To demonstrate the importance of the spray, for a moment the instructors would drop the protective spray to the ground at which point you immediately felt the intense heat on your face. Wow. The heat was so strong, your body reflexively recoiled back because you couldn't stand it.

Every school kid should go through such training. It gives you an appreciation for the bravery of real firefighters and the training itself is a great lesson in team building.

[mountainlion]

Sounds like they forgot all about McLaims habit of “wet starts”

[NonValueAdded]

The heat was so strong, your body reflexively recoiled back because you couldn't stand it.

Which would answer the question as to why so many jumped out the windows of the twin towers.

[PapaBear3625]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVgocdvcG0A

Forestall fire film

[Bob]

Sounds like they forgot all about McLaims habit of “wet starts”

Sounds more like somebody's completely ignorant of what happened.

McCain's plane was positioned starboard side aft with its tail pointed outboard. The Zuni rocket that started thins off came from farther forward. It struck the plane next to his. There was no wet start to cause the rocket misfire.

[wbarmy]

I was in Great Lakes in 1977. We had the shipboard fire training and it was literally like descending into hell.

When I did gas mask training for the US Army, it was a walk in the park. The instructors were expecting me to be whining about the tear gas. I had already been through hell, the tear gas was seasoning, nothing more.

[uncbob]

PS: there has always been rumor about McCain role in the fire, but there is no evidence whatsoever he did anything but narrowly escape from his burning jet, which was parked next to the initial ignited jet struck by the rocket.

Then why are you bringing it up ?

[mad_as_he$$]

Probably because it will come up in any discussion about this incident.

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

I was a Sonar Tech from 1986-1992 havung gine through boot camp in San Diego from August- mid October 1986.

As I remember the training it was unshielded electical wiring in the zoomie rocket that caught stray electrical emissions from another source at a near identical frequency as the launch activation signal.....and....the missiles were in whatever they called the mode when they are “live.”

I went through the 1 day live firefighting training that you me tion and remember it exactly as you do. The heat was amazingly powerful. Without that 2nd set of firefighters using the wand to beat back the heat by putting a cone of water over the crews it makes it nearly impossible to successfully fight a fuel oil/jet fuel buring fire.

[TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig]

I have made a point in threads like this to inform posters, even though I despise McCain and I am not related to him, never met him, that he had zero culpability for what occured on the Forrestal.

Any talk of him having done something to cause or make the catastophe possible is just not true.

[Bob]

Correction: His plane was on the port, not starboard side.

[mountainlion]

Sounds more like somebody’s completely ignorant...

What is your source? I never heard that story before. There are more articles of wet start causing the rocket to fire.

Here area a few: https://ixquick.com/do/metasearch.pl

[uncbob]

Ain’t no discussion if you didn’t bring it up
For what purpose

[exit82]

I am more interested in why McCain was on the very first helicopter off the Forrestal after the fire, when he was not wounded or burned in the fire.

[mad_as_he$$]

I didn't bring it up and it was already noted in several posts starting with number 3. I despise McCain will every fiber of my being. I am also willing to give him all the blame he deserves. I am on the record for many years here on FR that he didn't initiate the fire - begrudgingly.

[mountainlion]

Any talk of him having done something to cause or make the catastophe possible is just not true. ....

Truth is elusive. What are your sources?

[rlmorel]

Please. Just STOP. Stop. Nothing personal, but you have no idea what you are talking about with the “wet start”.

There was not even two posts before you came in with that.

Look, nothing personal. But you likely have no idea what a “wet start” is, or even how it could do damage to anything, never mind start the conflagration on the USS Forrestal.

Please don’t take it personally. But you should stop posting that because anyone who does know what they are talking about (as I do in this case) knows that you don’t.

There are plenty of reasons to dislike McCain, but let’s not turn this thread (which has the potential to be interesting and should honor the men who died and those who fought that day to save themselves and their ship) into an ignorant political screed.

[rlmorel]

Truth is elusive to people who don’t have any experience or knowledge of a matter, and have to depend on the Internet to obtain knowledge.

I have in-depth professional experience and personally related knowledge of the situation. I can explain to you as a courtesy since you are a Freeper and I assume you want the truth, but I have explained it in depth so many times on here (as have others) that it is simply redundant.

[rlmorel]

Thanks for posting this, beebuster2000.

I hope this thread can be in the spirit in which you started it, and not devolve into a discussion about the Triads, Skull and Bones, or Traitor McCain. He was a bit player who was lucky to survive.

What he did before or after the accident is not germane to the discussion.

It should be about the men who fought to save their lives and their ship that day.