More information on using Euler Logic Diagrams to prove the truth or fallacy of an argument can be found in this posting: https://cdrkerchner.wordpress.com/2018/06/16/natural-born-citizen/
Posted on 09/08/2018 3:45:16 PM PDT by CDR Kerchner
The work of Vattel of Neuchatel is very interesting, though. Thanks for that.
“I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.” —Emer de Vattel
That makes good sense.
I would think this implies that illegal immigrants are not here under the protection of the government, and therefore, their children (though born here) are not citizens.
Then provide your chosen scholars' names and I'll show you what form of government they believe we have.
Such a ruling will naturally occur, probably during Trump’s second term, as a direct result of Obama’s downfall. The wrinkle, of course, is that if Obama was ineligible for the office, both Kagan and Sotomayor were invalidly nominated to SCOTUS. They would need to recuse themselves in any such deliberations as a result. Ironically, it would also render moot the question of Merrick Garland’s nomination, which would also have been invalid if the Senate had confirmed him.
With respect for your extensive research with the intent of proving that the Natural Born Citizen wording is dependent on British Common Law, I will inform you that the United States Constitution Framers DID NOT follow the British Common Law in this extremely important Constitutional wording.
Natural Born Citizen is clearly defined in Vattel’s Law of Nations.
Unfortunately, many Americans have no knowledge of Vattel and his internationally acknowledged position as THE NUMBER ONE EXPERT on International Law at the time of the Framing. His three volumes Law of Nations is cited innumerable times in the discussions and writings of the Founders throughout the formative period of the Constitution. To completely dismiss Vattel and pose the entirety of any argument regarding the definition of “Natural Born Citizen” on the basis of British Common Law is a travesty of the first order. In fact, it is a position of IGNORANCE. Furthermore the distinction between Citizen and Natural Born Citizen should be evident to anyone. Why use the term Natural Born Citizen when the term Citizen would suffice? Common Sense (sadly diminished today)insists THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.
Nobarack08 posted a list in November of 2009 of instances the founders used and discussed the Law of Nations. I have had ab enormous interest in Vattel for well over 50 years and noted his posting which I have studied. All Americans would do well to expand their knowledge by looking up at least a few examples nobarack08 listed.
Just a note to prove the use of the Law of Nations by our Founders and Framers:
Journal of the Senate of the United States of America, Monday, March 10, 1794, Volume 2, page 44
Ordered, That the Secretary purchase Blackstone’s Commentaries, and Vattel’s Law of Nature and Nations, for the use of the Senate.
The copy of Vattel’s Law of Nations used earlier had been a gift to the Founders.
we must focus on realistic and workable means of doing so.
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it is very simple. In order to obtain a passport, one must provide proof of American citizenship. Birth Certificate or other acceptable papers are necessary. All Presidential candidates should be forced to provide PROOF that they are Natural Born Citizens, not simply citizens.
There are enough Natural Born Citizens in the United States to produce a LEGITIMATE PRESIDENT. We have learned the destruction which was caused by the ILLEGITIMATE PRESIDENCY of BARACK OBAMA. Make sure it NEVER happens again!
Vattel’s treatise, “The Law of Nations of Principles of Natural Law”, was the lodestar for many aspects of our founding documents. See my collection re. Vattel’s Influence on U.S. Founders & Constitution’s Framers: https://www.scribd.com/lists/3224507/Vattel-s-Influence-on-U-S-Founders-Constitution-s-Framers
Those who do not understand the clear meaning of “natural born citizen” are the same people who do not understand “shall not be infringed”, neither need defining for the clear-thinking.
They do not want them understood as clearly as they are written.
Benjamin Franklin in 1775 thanks Charles Dumas of the Netherlands for sending him 3 more copies of the newest edition of Vattel’s “Law of Nations or Principles of Natural Law”: https://puzo1.wordpress.com/category/benjamin-franklin/
“natural born Citizens” are the 3 leaf clovers of our nation, not the 4 leaf clovers. It is from them that we constitutionally choose our president and commander-in-chief and VPs: https://cdrkerchner.wordpress.com/tag/3-leaf-clover/
But they were Englishmen, and they did write our nation’s founding documents in the same language that was used for English common law. They wrote those documents for the understanding of a people whose national language would be English.
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The Founders WERE NO LONGER ENGLISHMEN the minute the Declaration of Independence was signed. Your inferences that they wrote the laws according to English Common Law and the English language are completely erroneous. The Framers were well educated and spoke other languages fluently. They knew and studied French, Latin, Greek, and other languages, but French was foremost as it was( and still is) the Diplomatic language. French was also the language in which Vattel wrote The Law of Nations. They would have read Vattel as easily as they read anything in English. They wrote the Constitution in he language that MOST Americans of the time would understand.
More on Vattel’s treatise “The Law of Nations or Principles of Natural Law” and its influence in the founding era and with the key founders and framers: https://pixelpatriot.blogspot.com/2015/09/vattel-is-law-part-1.html
Thank you for the marvelous writings you have published in the effort to educate citizens on the true story of our Constitution. I am familiar with many of the subjects you have listed. There is another which I would like to add to the list.
I hear repeatedly that there is no proof that the Framers knew or used Vattel’s Law of Nations in the writing of our Constitution. I disagree. PROOF of the influence of the Law of Nations on our Constitution is clearly stated in ARTICLE I, Section 8 where the Law of Nations is clearly cited:
” To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations.”
Yes, I agree. I used that very citation in my presentation and debate with news reporters during my ballot access challenge to Obama in the state of Pennsylvania in 2012. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MW0rVEqEAo
[Exerpt:]
“When the United States ceased to be a part of the British empire, and assumed the character of an independent nation, they became subject to that system of rules which reason, morality, and custom had established among civilized nations of Europe, as their public law. . . . The faithful observance of this law is essential to national character. . . .”1385 These words of the Chancellor Kent expressed the view of the binding character of international law that was generally accepted at the time the Constitution was adopted. During the Revolutionary War, Congress took cognizance of all matters arising under the law of nations and professed obedience to that law.1386 Under the Articles of Confederation, it was given exclusive power to appoint courts for the trial of piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, but no provision was made for dealing with offenses against the law of nations.1387 The draft of the Constitution submitted to the Convention of 1787 by its Committee of Detail empowered Congress “to declare the law and punishment of piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and the punishment of counterfeiting the coin of the United States, and of offences against the law of nations.”1388 In the debate on the floor of the Convention, the discussion turned on the question as to whether the terms, “felonies” and the “law of nations,” were sufficiently precise to be generally understood. The view that these terms were often so vague and indefinite as to require definition eventually prevailed and Congress was authorized to define as well as punish piracies, felonies, and offenses against the law of nations.1389
[Excerpt:]
1385 1 J. Kent, Commentaries on American Law (New York: 1826), 1.
1386 19 Journals of the Continental Congress, 315, 361 (1912); 20 id. 762; 21 id. 1136–1137, 1158.
1387 Article IX.
1388 2 M. Farrand, The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787 (New Haven: Rev. ed. 1937), 168, 182.
1389 Id., 316.
Foreign methods of keeping monsters out of presidential office might work with some of the rabble but will not be as effective with those more highly placed in the three branches of our government—especially the judicial.
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