Posted on 11/02/2018 10:57:55 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
An international team of scientists has completed the first 3D virtual reconstruction of the ribcage of the most complete Neandertal skeleton unearthed to date, potentially shedding new light on how this ancient human moved and breathed.
The team, which included researchers from universities in Spain, Israel, and the United States, including the University of Washington, focused on the thorax -- the area of the body containing the rib cage and upper spine, which forms a cavity to house the heart and lungs. Using CT scans of fossils from an approximately 60,000-year-old male skeleton known as Kebara 2, researchers were able to create a 3D model of the chest -- one that is different from the longstanding image of the barrel-chested, hunched-over "caveman." The conclusions point to what may have been an upright individual with greater lung capacity and a straighter spine than today's modern human...
This team worked with a skeleton labeled Kebara 2, also known as "Moshe," which was found in Kebara Cave in Northern Israel's Carmel mountain range in 1983... one of the most complete Neandertal skeleton ever found. Two different forms of dating of the surrounding soil, thermoluminescence and electron spin resonance, put the age at somewhere between 59,000 and 64,000 years.
Discoveries and studies of other Neandertal remains in the 19th and early 20th centuries gave rise to theories and images of a stereotypical, hunched-over caveman. Over time, further research clarified scientific understanding of many Neandertal traits, but some debate has lingered over the structure of the thorax, the capacity of the lungs and what conditions Neandertals might have been able to adapt to, or not...
(Excerpt) Read more at eurekalert.org ...
The Neandertal Enigma"Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127]
by James Shreeve
in local libraries
Hmmmm..no lumbar curvature.
And yet, they probably invented the Lazy Boy recliner.
Why didn’t they just ask Diane Fineswine for her high school year book?
Couldn’t help but notice that they spelled Neanderthal without the h.
I know that’s the proper German pronunciation, but we English speakers have always pronounced it with the th.
Carry on.
What they drew in their heads (like most modern scientists today - what they expected to find), was wrong. Neanderthals had no spinal lumbar curve ... what this means they are in the process of learning )no info yet).
Well... at least Moshe didn’t have one. But was he representative or a fluke?
But was he representative or a fluke?
I thought that is a possibility. Likely only one or more complete skeletons would answer that question.
Hmmm, no lumbar curve? Fewer back aches for one thing. Probably they didn’t start out as a quadruped that adapted to standing up. There are implications of that that I do not like.
The 2:02m video of Patrica Kramer explaining what they discovered. Very interesting points about the virtual lack of the lumbar curve in the Neanderthal reconstruction.
https://www.eurekalert.org/multimedia/pub/184263.php?from=410224
Expand on your thoughts please. I am curious what you are thinking. I am missing the implications.
Changing to a “T” was a new convention in science that started about 25 years ago; likewise, with dropping the period in caliber.
I believe German went through a revision in the early 20th century after Neanderthal with an 'h' entered the English language.
I say 'f' the krauts, it's our word now.
Every mammal started from quadruped stock. Hips are made with the spine coming in from one side, the tail in a straight line with the spine out the other, and the legs at right angles to that spine-tail line directly under the body.
The face is on the opposite end of the skull from where the spine attaches.
This had some bad implications for apes when they stood up. The tail has to go, it’s in the way of leg motion. No big loss, I guess.
With the legs forced to move under the center of a vertical body, that right angle between the spine and legs can’t remain, but it’s a lot of displacement to do. Standing apes started out with knees bent to allow the thighs to point more forward than down and the small of the back shifted forward to help conserve the straight spine-hip angle (oh my aching back!) The crouching vertical stance gave enough advantage (reaching higher fruit? seeing predators over tall grass? Or whatever) that the ones slightly better adapted got straighter legs and curvier lower backs.
At the other end, not much advantage to only up looking at the sky. To bring the face down to see ahead the top of the spine had to ‘c’ curve the opposite of the bottom of the spine leaving us with the ‘S’ curve that has made so many chiropractors rich. And the spinal opening didn’t start out under the center of gravity of the head, forcing the neck vertebra into yet another ‘c’ to at least more-or-less center the head over the shoulders (this didn’t quite work, most people’s heads are forward, off balance).
These are more or less essential adaptations to going from a horizontal lifestyle to a vertical one.
“S” spines are a result of standing up. Neanderthals have straight spines (and heads perfectly balanced by the occipital lobe). Therefore Neanderthals started out standing up. All mammals came from quadruped stock. Therefore...
Either my premises are wrong, or they ain’t from around here...
Thanks for the reply. Something I will have to think about. But I understand what your saying. They could be evolutionary very different or just a mutation point that was way off from the final point. Could be that they are descendent from a massive genetic mutation or maybe we are.
It gets worse.
Let me preface this with I’m an agnostic.
Neanderthals kept the same tool kit for 100,000 years. That’s an extraordinarily stable culture, one lacking malcontents eager to tear down the old.
Neanderthals had a spiritual life, graves with ocher to give the dead more of a lifelike pinkish color, grave goods, and even burials with flowers.
The modern peoples with the highest IQs also have the highest percentages of residual Neanderthal DNA. (China/the Orient and to a slightly lesser degree Europeans).
Those peoples invented writing and technological civilization.
Peoples in the new world could pile stone on stone, barely managed to domesticate a few food crops, never used the wheel, and spent much of their time cutting out each others’ still beating hearts, Africa much the same, Australia not even crops, Tasmania, not even fire! (I’m glossing over cyclopean stone structures, which according to the natives in areas with them predate their arrival).
We, even those of us with a few percent of Neanderthal DNA, are quadruped apes poorly adapted to walking upright.
Neanderthals with their straight spines and balanced heads were purpose built to walk upright.
Built from scratch.
By who or what?
For what purpose?
And in whose image, eh?
Let me preface this with I’m a Christian that has no ability to comprehend Gods time, ability or methods.
I believe man has been here for a very long time with multiple peaks and valleys. If Neanderthals are needed for our creation then so be it. To me that is more fascinating to think about god planning our genetic base over long period of time. I believe we were seeded over time as his creation.
Having said that it’s obvious there were other hominids running around. I don’t think there is evidence for a sudden replacement. Seems like more of a blending. Question is where did Neanderthal and homo sapians come from. What was before. We were left clues, a big brain, a desire to learn, and the innate passion to ask how and why.
I wish politics and academic prestige would take a back seat to truth and honest discussions.
Thanks for the reply. Feel free to ping me to anything in this topic area. I may be ignorant but it is fascinating.
The head on quads points not quite down and not quite forward early on but an angle.
It could swivel over a few millennia as the spine becomes more vertical, moving the 1st joint under the cranium for better support.
Regards the spine, I would love to see the spine of pre neandethal.
As is, the Pre neanderthal, going back enough, would be the quadruped, with the straight spine, therefore, the rotation to a more vertical stance could have occurred earlier than the reshaping of the spine, the reshaping would be easier to withstand compression vertical forces, as it would bend more, and take the vertical load, rather than be too rigid and blow a few inter vertebral disc nuclei, making it easier for the predator to catch and eat them. (dead end, if you will!)
Thus, it is possible the curved spine was in fact a result of vertical stance, and not necessarily during the transition.
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