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From godlessness to ruthlessness: Religion and the First World War
The Economist ^ | 2014

Posted on 11/11/2018 5:43:39 AM PST by CondoleezzaProtege

Alexander Solzhenitsyn had once asked why, in 1914, a Europe "bursting with health and abundance" had "fallen into a rage of self-mutilation"; and the Russian writer offered the same explanation as he did for all the disasters of the early 20th century: man had "forgotten God".

Anyone will agree that there was a decline in the importance of religion during and after the first world war. Theocratically-based regimes, notably the Russian and Ottoman empires, were replaced by secular ones. In western Europe, Protestant and Catholic clergy struggled to explain the seemingly senseless horrors of the war to their flock. It is more contentious to argue that secularisation was a cause as well as an effect of war.

But in his article, elaborating on an earlier lecture, Mr Weigel lists the secular ideas that were supplanting religion before 1914. They include racial theories based on the superiority of the Slavic or Teutonic peoples, and their incompatibility with each other; Friedrich Nietszche's glorification of destruction and power; distorted forms of Darwinism which saw the survival of the fittest as a prescription for an endless arms race. He thinks that religion itself was corrupted by secular nationalism, to the point where many of Europe's clergy saw nothing but merit in killing fellow Christians of a different nation.

Mr Weigel does acknowledge one counter-argument that would be offered by anybody who knows a bit of European history. The whole political order of modern Europe arguably has its roots in a benign project to stop the endless sectarian conflict which devastated the continent in the 17th century. But he insists that "the erosion of religious authority in Europe...created a European moral-cultural environment in which politics were no longer bound and constrained by a higher authority operative in the minds and consciences of leaders and populations."

(Excerpt) Read more at economist.com ...


TOPICS: History; Religion
KEYWORDS: 19181111; armisticeday; thegreatwar; veteransday; ww1
French President Macron blamed nationalism during his speech in Paris today, but did he give due attention to his own country's abandonment of the Christian faith?
1 posted on 11/11/2018 5:43:39 AM PST by CondoleezzaProtege
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

French President Macron blamed nationalism during his speech in Paris today, but did he give due attention to his own country’s abandonment of the Christian faith?


Repeat LOUD and OFTEN...……………………….


2 posted on 11/11/2018 5:46:08 AM PST by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

So, now are we beginning to see why the hand is writing on the wall? Finally?


3 posted on 11/11/2018 5:51:07 AM PST by MeneMeneTekelUpharsin (Freedom is the freedom to discipline yourself so others don't have to do it for you.)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege; All
To take a note from Mssr Limbaugh, the ruination of mankind has as much to do with religion in the public square as does the eating of carrots. Taking out the menace of islam, Christian on Christian violence, between the various sects, occurred. Much violence between the various islamic sects. Hindu vs Buddhists. Need I go on?

As much as he may frighten us, we root for our own personal boogeyman to be the villain.

May I add my own? Mine would be the battle between individualism and statism. Makes more sense to me. NAZIs didn't stop at Jews. Russia at democracies. China didn't stop at ... well China never sleeps.

4 posted on 11/11/2018 6:21:42 AM PST by j.argese (/s tags: If you have a mind unnecessary. If you're a cretin it really doesn't matter, does it?)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

Religion didn’t stop the Ottomans from periodically massacring minorities.


5 posted on 11/11/2018 6:26:53 AM PST by Buttons12
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

The war started by TERRORISTS, and because of INTERNATIONAL TREATIES OF MUTUAL DEFENSE, it grew into a dumpster fire, where dissent was almost criminalized in part to protect the “honor” of the in-bred monarchs that people were told to fight in the name of.


6 posted on 11/11/2018 6:41:19 AM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: CondoleezzaProtege
Theocratically-based regimes, notably the Russian and Ottoman empires, were replaced by secular ones.

I would not characterize the Russian regimes as ever being "theocratically based." The Ottomans, sure. They're Islamic. So it naturally follows.

But while the Church played a very important role in Russian society, Russia's rulers were no more theocrats than their counterparts in Prussia, Scandinavia, the Lowlands, or England. There, the leaders paid lip service to Christianity, but their actions in many cases belied their allegiance to biblical principles. Russia under the czars was no different.

7 posted on 11/11/2018 6:43:21 AM PST by IronJack
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

Anyone who spent time in Europe traveling about and visiting historic sites would recognize that Europe never fully Christianized.


8 posted on 11/11/2018 7:00:20 AM PST by fso301
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

Intellectual Dribble. Written by someone who likes to hear themselves think. Makes one wonder if the author has ever read Carl von Clausewitz or at least some of his more quotables: War is not an independent phenomenon, but the continuation of politics by different means.”


9 posted on 11/11/2018 7:10:04 AM PST by Fhios
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To: CondoleezzaProtege

When the Russian Communists began persecuting the church, the average church attendance dropped from 300 to 15 - a 95% falling away.


10 posted on 11/11/2018 8:54:40 AM PST by aimhigh (1 John 3:23 "And THIS is His commandment . . . ")
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To: PeterPrinciple

Europe and the west is abandoning its ethical and moral foundation . Without that foundation it continues to decline in the face of violent Islam and Chinese encroachment . It will not end well for us and our children.


11 posted on 11/11/2018 9:56:20 AM PST by sarge83
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To: sarge83

Europe and the west is abandoning its ethical and moral foundation . Without that foundation it continues to decline in the face of violent Islam and Chinese encroachment . It will not end well for us and our children.


I do not disagree with you. My issue is the vague words from the original article.

When God states his charges against us they are very clear, not vague, we should do no less.

But I understand the situation. If the issue is homosexuality and one states so, the WHOLE WORLD will be against you. (and we may lose our jobs, wealth and prestige)


12 posted on 11/11/2018 4:26:10 PM PST by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
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To: sarge83

oops, sorry, wrong thread.

But yes, we agree and there are consequences. I have often wondered what the faithful thought when the prophets came around and said, “you are going to be captured and carried away.” I guess we will find out...……………………………..


13 posted on 11/11/2018 4:29:04 PM PST by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
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To: PeterPrinciple

Then I guess it is up to those of us with no jobs, wealth, or prestige to begin with to take the risks.


14 posted on 11/11/2018 4:37:42 PM PST by steve86 (Prophecies of Maelmhaedhoc O'Morgair (Latin form: Malachy))
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To: steve86

Then I guess it is up to those of us with no jobs, wealth, or prestige to begin with to take the risks.


Worthy of thought though our Founding Fathers were an exemption? But they were close to losing everything.

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose? Are we close?

It may not be the actual loss, but the perceived loss?


15 posted on 11/11/2018 5:04:29 PM PST by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege
But for World War I, I might not be here. My paternal grandfather had been in the Italian Army during the Balkan Wars. He immigrated to the U.S., but his wife was homesick for Italy. They returned to Italy, leaving my father in the U.S. with an uncle. When World War I broke out, grandfather was recalled to duty, and killed on the Italian front. Dad was then raised by his uncle. Dad and Mother married in 1930. I was born in 1931. Had Dad returned to Italy with his father, he'd never have met my mother.
16 posted on 11/11/2019 5:27:33 PM PST by JoeFromSidney (Colonel (Retired) USAF.)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege
But for World War I, I might not be here. My paternal grandfather had been in the Italian Army during the Balkan Wars. He immigrated to the U.S., but his wife was homesick for Italy. They returned to Italy, leaving my father in the U.S. with an uncle. When World War I broke out, grandfather was recalled to duty, and killed on the Italian front. Dad was then raised by his uncle. Dad and Mother married in 1930. I was born in 1931. Had Dad returned to Italy with his father, he'd never have met my mother.
17 posted on 11/11/2019 5:28:50 PM PST by JoeFromSidney (Colonel (Retired) USAF.)
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To: steve86

“Then I guess it is up to those of us with no jobs, wealth, or prestige to begin with to take the risks.”

When you got nothing you got nothing to lose.

L


18 posted on 11/11/2019 5:35:26 PM PST by Lurker (Peaceful coexistence with the Left is not possible. Stop pretending that it is.)
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To: CondoleezzaProtege
Monarchs have always gone to war over power, wealth, and security. By 1914, decisions were made by elected or appointed ministers, but the reasons for going to war weren't so different. The people didn't have much to say about it, but they went to war because of patriotism or compulsion.

There was a sense that nationalism had replaced religion, but it's hard to figure out how true that was or whether that helped to cause the war. Elites were focused on worldly things as before. The poor had too little power and too many problems to be much of a force in politics. Some in the middle classes became fervent nationalists or materialists, but they were stepping into the shoes of the older elites.

19 posted on 11/11/2019 6:25:32 PM PST by x
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