It is Legal to Pray in School (Voluntarily!)

American Minute ^ | August 11, 2019 | Bill Federer

[Perseverando]

Mandatory versus voluntary.

Though court cases have sought to limit "mandatory" school-sponsored prayer, students continue to have the right to "voluntarily" pray!

Brad Dacus, President of Pacific Justice Institute, stated (www.legaltopray.com):

“In every case defending students’ rights to pray, the students have prevailed, even teachers have the right to pray in school."

President Bill Clinton stated at James Madison High School, July 12, 1995:

"The First Amendment does not require students to leave their religion at the schoolhouse door ...

If students can wear T-shirts advertising sports teams, rock groups or politicians, they can also wear T-shirts that promote religion ...

Religion is too important to our history and our heritage for us to keep it out of our schools ..."

Clinton concluded:

"Nothing in the First Amendment converts our public schools into religion-free zones or requires all religious expression to be left behind at the schoolhouse door ...

Government's schools also may not discriminate against private religious expression during the school day."

Though students continue to have the right to "voluntarily" pray in school, many are unaware of WHERE and WHEN the effort began to remove "mandatory" prayer from schools?

In 1959, a few atheists filed a lawsuit to stop New York's "mandatory" school prayer, which took place every morning after the Pledge of Allegiance.

Students prayed:

"Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers and our country. Amen."

The A.C.L.U. represented the atheists in the case, Engel v. Vitale, which went up to the Supreme Court.

The A.C.L.U. was started by Roger Baldwin, who wrote in 1935:

"I am for socialism, disarmament, and ultimately, for abolishing the state itself ... Communism is the goal."

[Perseverando]

Time for another great American history lesson from American Minute.

[Dacula]

July 12, 1995 - That was the day my mother passed away after a long battle with ALS.

[Perseverando]

A very tough day for your family. I know you still miss her.

[Leaning Right]

I’m old enough to remember prayer in public schools. Back in the 1960’s, our homeroom teachers would say a brief nondenominational prayer before lunch. It was a good thing.

But the times, they are a’changing.

Suppose a Muslim teacher wants to stop class to say a brief, “voluntary” prayer out loud. No student need take part. Would that be acceptable?

I’d say no, absolutely not! And what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. So I must reluctantly say no praying in public schools. But nothing would stop a teacher or student from saying a silent, personal prayer, of course.

And by the way, even a nondenominational prayer wouldn’t work these days. Our teachers mentioned G_d. A Muslim would instead insist on Allah.

[loveliberty2]

Is it possible that America's education system, along with parents, churches and communities have failed to teach all children of the factual, and documented, history of our nation?

The question is based partially on the following information and the Library of Congress web site referenced in the post.

Ohio State Senator and A.M.E. Bishop Benjamin W. Arnett, outstanding scholar, Legislator, and Minister, who lived through the period of the Civil War and delivered a most outstanding Centennial Sermon, at St. Paul Church in Norwalk, Ohio, by invitation, honoring the 100th Anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, in which he traced the history of nations and that of America, from it's inception and up to the Year of the Centennial of its Declaration.

In that Sermon, Dr. Arnett issued a grave warning of what might happen to America if a group, including academics who then self-described as "Liberals," had its way. Excerpts follow:

"The Danger to our Country.

"Now that our national glory and grandeur is principally derived from the position the fathers took on the great questions of right and wrong, and the career of this nation has been unparalleled in the history of the past, now there are those who are demanding the tearing down the strength of our national fabric. They may not intend to tear it down, but just as sure as they have their way, just that sure will they undermine our superstructure and cause the greatest calamity of the age. What are the demands of this party of men? Just look at it and examine it for yourselves, and see if you are willing that they shall have their way; or will you still assist in keeping the ship of state in the hands of the same crew and run her by the old gospel chart! But ye men who think there is no danger listen to the demands of the Liberals as they choose to call themselves:

"'Organize! Liberals of America! The hour for action has arrived. The cause of freedom calls upon us to combine our strength, our zeal, our efforts. These are The Demands of Liberalism:

"'1. We demand that churches and other ecclesiastical property shall no longer be exempt from just taxation.

"'2. We demand that the employment of chaplains in Congress, in State Legislatures, in the navy and militia, and in prisons, asylums, and all other institutions supported by public money, shall be discontinued.

"'3. We demand that all public appropriations for sectarian educational and charitable institutions shall cease.

"'4. We demand that all religious services now sustained by the government shall be abolished; and especially that the use of the Bible in the public schools, whether ostensibly as a text-book or avowedly as a book of religious worship, shall be prohibited.

"'5. We demand that the appointment, by the President of the United States or by the Governors of the various States, of all religious festivals and fasts shall wholly cease.

"'6. We demand that the judicial oath in the courts and in all other departments of the government shall be abolished, and that simple affirmation under the pains and penalties of perjury shall be established in its stead.

"'7. We demand that all laws directly or indirectly enforcing the observance of Sunday as the Sabbath shall be repealed.

"'8. We demand that all laws looking to the enforcement of “Christian” morality shall be abrogated, and that all laws shall be conformed to the requirements of natural morality, equal rights, and impartial liberty.

"'9. We demand that not only in the Constitution of the United States and of the several States, but also in the practical administration of the same, no privilege or advantage shall be conceded to Christianity or any other special religion; that our entire political system shall be founded and administered on a purely secular basis; and that whatever changes shall prove necessary to this end shall be consistently, unflinchingly, and promptly made.'

"'Let us boldly and with high purpose meet the duty of the hour.'

In another section of the lengthy discourse, Bishop Arnett addressed the topic of "The Greatness of America," as follows:

"Let us see what it is that makes us so great; wherein lies our strength. What has made us one of the greatest powers of the earth, politically and intellectually? Have we come to the conclusion that it is Righteousness that exalteth a nation? We have met to-day at the request of the President of the United States, Ulysses S. Grant, and also the Governor of our beloved State, Rutherford B. Hayes. For what? Why call us from our homes? Why come to the house of God? Why not go to the hall of mirth and to the places of amusement to-day? No that is not what they want us to do. We are commanded to go to our 'several places of worship, and there offer up thanks to Kind Providence which has brought our nation through the scenes of another year, and blessed the land with peace, plenty and prosperity.' Then as Americans we have reason to rejoice and congratulate ourselves on the greatness of our beloved country; at this the close of the first hundred years of experimental government of the people, by the people, and for the people. To be a citizen of this vast country is something, and to share in its privileges and duties is more than something." - Dr. Benjamin W. Arnett, 1876 "Centennial Thanksgiving Sermon" -

CENTENNIAL Thanksgiving Sermon, DELIVERED BY REV. B. W. ARNETT, B. D., AT ST. PAUL A. M. E. CHURCH, URBANA, OHIO 1876 - available in the "Library of Congress - Historical Collections" - "African-American Pamphlets from the Daniel A. P. Murray Collection," 1820-1920; American Memory, Washington, DC.

This historical treasure is one which should be prominent in our national discussions, especially now, when our philosophical foundations are being challenged, and when the views of a learned man like Dr. Arnett might shed light on centuries-old ideas about America's history. His theme: Righteousness Exalteth a Nation, but Sin is a Reproach to any People."

"Withdraw from Christendom the Bible, the Church with its sacraments and ministry, and Christian morality and hopes, and aspirations for time and eternity; repeal all the laws that are founded in the Christian Scriptures; remove the Christian humanities in the form of hospitals and asylums, and reformatories and institutions of mercy utterly unknown to unchristian countries; destroy the literature, the culture, the institutions of learning, the art, the refinement, the place of woman in her home and in society, which owe their origin and power to Christianity; blot out all faith in Divine Providence, love, and righteousness; turn back every believer in Christ to his former state; remove all thought or hope of the forgiveness of sins by a just but gracious God; erase the name of Christ from every register it sanctifies—in a word annihilate all the legitimate and logical effects of Christianity in Christendom—just accomplish in fact what multitudes of gifted and learned minds are wishing and trying to accomplish by their science, philosophy, and criticism, and what multitudes of the common people desire and seek, and not only would all progress toward and unto perfection cease, but not one of the shining lights of infidelity would shine much longer. Yes, the bitterest enemies of this holy and blessed religion, owe their ability to be enemies to its sacred revelations - to the inspiration and sublimity of that faith which reflects its glories on their hostile natures. They live in the strength of that which they would destroy. They are raised to their seats of opportunity and power by the grace of Him they would crucify afresh; and is it to be thought that they are stronger than that which gives them strength? Can it be supposed that a religion which civilizes and subdues, and elevates and blesses will succumb to the enmities it may arouse and quicken in its onward march? Are we to tremble for the ark of God when God is its upholder, and protector, and preserver?” - Dr. Benjaming W. Arnett, St. Paul A.M.E. Church, Urbana, Ohio, Centennial Thanksgiving Sermon, November 1876

Dr. Arnett, an A.M.E. Minister and Ohio State Legislator, was invited to publish this remarkable sermon commemorating the Centennial of the Declaration of Independence by the following method:

To:

Rev. B. W. ARNETT, B. D.

Dear Pastor:

Will you please prepare your “Centennial Thanksgiving Sermon” for publication: together with whatever matter pertaining to the colored people of this city, you deem worth preserving.

We make this request of you, believing that the publication of such matter, will be of benefit to the present and succeeding generations.

Yours Respectfully,

J GAITER
J. DEMPCY
C. L, GANT
Trustees W. A. STILGASS, W. O. BOWLES

Urbana, O.

December 7th, 1876

J GAITER, J. DEMPCY, C. L, GANT

Trustees W. A. STILGASS, W. O. BOWLES

[Dacula]

I think her often, but have comfort that she is in a better place and not suffering.

July 12, 1995 - That was the day my mother passed away after a long battle with ALS.

[Ron H.]

It is legal to pray anywhere anytime one wants. Quietly and peaceably but as to whether people can gather to pray audibly in a group or gathering that’s an entirely different subject.

[dhs12345]

And students are so much happier these days. So happy that they fell the need to murder their fellow students.

[Leaning Right]

You do make a point. When I was in public school, we - as a class - said a prayer before lunch. And each morning one class (it rotated) would go outside and say the Pledge of Allegiance as a teacher raised the flag.

It would be great if we could go back to that. But I just don’t see how. Muslims would demand to pray to Allah. And there would be lawsuits from parents who don’t want their kids to salute the flag.

It’s sad, really.

Side story: I spent many years teaching in a public high school. And I demanded that my kids stand for the Pledge. They didn’t have to say the Pledge, just stand for it. Well, one day a student refused to stand. He said that was because America did so many bad things.

I figured this fight was worth it. So I gave the kid detention. And the principal backed me up! But then the school board overruled us both.

[dhs12345]

We sang Christmas songs at my public elementary school. My high school’s choir sang a lot of Bach. Bach would be banned today.

[dhs12345]

Also, glad that you tried. The kiddos are now being taught meditation. And yes it is religious Hinduism Buddhism meditation with mantra chanting but the school system pretends that it isn’t religious.

[Jim W N]

YES!!!! ABSOLUTELY!!!!

The feds have UNCONSTITUTIONALLY and thus, ILLEGALLY interfered with state schools to ban prayer and the Bible in state schools.

Please, Patriots, Supreme Court decisions are
1) NOT national law, and
2) NOT valid even to the limited effect of the parties of the case when the decision fails to based on rational and sound constitutional reasoning.

[Albion Wilde]

bump

[erkelly]

Along with prayer, I was reminded of another interesting thing by that photo. In my day, every elementary school classroom had a piano, and every teacher could read music, and play it a little.

[fieldmarshaldj]

Removing prayer from school was blatantly unconstitutional.

[SunkenCiv]

Megalomaniac MMoHair and one of her sons (the one who remained an atheist commie and attached at the umbilicus) wound up murdered, and their gold was plundered by the killers. Oh, and one of the killers killed one of the other killers because he didn’t like to share.

https://www.religiousfreedomcoalition.org/the-madalyn-murray-o%E2%80%99hair-murder/

https://www.wnd.com/2017/03/netflix-drama-conveniently-forgets-major-fact-on-famed-atheist/

http://www.google.com/search?q=Madalyn+Murray+O%92Hair+site:freerepublic.com

[GOPsterinMA]

It was pure whorery.

[fieldmarshaldj]

I remember that. Evil bitch. The only logical and Constitutional ruling on the issue with respect to schools was a simple one: if a child (or their parents) request not to participate in class prayer, they shouldn’t have to. When you have 29 kids out of 30 in class participating in prayer and the 1 is demanding the ENTIRE class cease and desist to adhere to his/her (or their parents) atheistic viewpoint, you’re already trampling on the others’ rights.

It’s remarkable how simple a solution to these problems are... when you DON’T have radical leftist tyrannical judicial activists rewriting the laws to suit their own personal, anti-Constitutional agendas.

[AuH2ORepublican]

When SCOTUS ruled that Jehovah’s Witnesses could not be compelled to recite the Pledge of Allegiance because they believed that doing so violated their religion, do you know what SCOTUS *didn’t* do? Prohibit the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in school.

Similarly, if a student or his parents object to a prayer to begin the school day, then such student should not be forced to participate, but he should not prevent everyone else from participating. While it is true that school prayer would not be permitted if it constituted a federal* establishment of religion, starting the school day with a prayer is no more of an establishment of religion than it is for Congress and the Supreme Court to commence their working day with a benediction.

* Please note that the First Amendment, by its own terms, does not prohibit states from establishing a religion, but prohibits Congress from enacting a statute “with respect to an establishment of religion.” Several states had established churches at the time that the U.S. Constitution was adopted, and one of the concerns of the Anti-Federalists that later found its way to the Bill of Rights was that Congress might disestablish a state church or, even worse, establish a church at the federal level that would supersede all state establishments or non-establishments. Thus, the Establishment Clause is not an individual right that should be incorporated against the states via the Fourteenth Amendment, but a clause that serves in pursuance of federalism and that would make no sense to “incorporate.” However, until SCOTUS reverses its mistake, it should at least clear up that permitting school prayer is not an establishment of religion (which would be an issue even if the Establishment Clause no longer is incorporated against the states, given that it would apply in schools in the District of Columbia, etc.).

[fieldmarshaldj]

It’s remarkable how many people are ignorant of this issue (although we can thank the media and schools today for that). Remarkable even more how so many courts go on “ruling” wrongly on unconstitutional “precedents” where this issue is concerned. It’s no wonder the establishment threw a $hit-fit when AL Chief Justice Roy Moore decided to exercise HIS Constitutional rights. Heaven forbid we regain rights denied to us.