Testing the DNA of cave art

Bradshaw Foundation ^ | Friday, June 19, 2020 | Bridgette Watson (CBC News)

[SunkenCiv]

The University of Victoria paleoanthropologist Genevieve von Petzinger explains that a DNA test, which would reveal genetic mutations due to evolution, could help pinpoint the time period a painting was made and may help determine if the art was actually the handiwork of humans or Neanderthals — who lived about 130,000 to 40,000 years ago.

"It would just be so fascinating to see the identity. The million dollar question is, did Neanderthals paint?"

There is already some indication, according to von Petzinger, that this extinct species was, in fact, artistic. Von Petzinger said that a few years ago, some of her colleagues tested samples of minerals they found covering cave drawings and determined the minerals to be 65,000 years old, which von Petzinger said indicated the art underneath was older and, therefore, drawn by Neanderthals.

She admits that this dating method was hotly debated by others in the field. "It was quite the big drama going back and forth." Perhaps genetic testing could be a way to get a definitive answer; genetic testing can even pinpoint the artist's gender and possibly lead to finding a living descendent.

Von Petzinger said she is incredibly grateful to colleagues, the Spanish government and National Geographic for being willing to believe in her "crazy idea."

[SunkenCiv]

New research suggests that markings on cave walls such as these ones from El Castillo in Spain may have been part of a graphic communication system from the Ice Age, long before writing was invented. Image: Dillon von Petzinger

[SunkenCiv]

• World's oldest cave art: Half-animal, half-human hybrids depicted on oldest discovered cave art (44K) [2019]
• Dating questions challenge whether Neandertals drew Spanish cave art (up yours!) [2019]
• This animal on a cave wall in Borneo is the oldest known figurative painting in the world (40K+) [2018]
• Possible Neanderthal rock engraving in Gorham's Cave [2014]
• Study Claims Cave Art Made By Neanderthals [2014]
• New dating puts cave art in the age of Neanderthals [2012]
• Spain claims top spot for world's oldest cave art (Is it a Neanderthal "painting?") [2012]
• The Top Four Candidates for Europe's Oldest Work of Art [2012]
• 'The Oldest (Neanderthal) Work Of Art Ever': 42,000-Year-Old Paintings Of Seals Found In Spain [2012]
• Egypt's Oldest Known Art Identified, Is 15,000 Years Old [2007]
• Implications for the Behavioral Modernity of Neandertals [2006]
• Cave Drawings Reportedly 25,000 Years Old [2006]
• Cave Paintings Reveal Ice Age Artists [2005]
• Macro-Etymology: Paleosigns [writing 20,000 years ago?] [2005]
• Oldest rock art in Britain: 12,800 years [2005]

[SunkenCiv]

cave art dna

Google

[BroJoeK]

DNA from what? Spit used in the paint?

Might work.
How about DNA from any human teeth found nearby?

[SMARTY]

“...did Neanderthals paint?”

Sure they did, they taught Picasso everything he knew

[Phillyred]

[Boogieman]

“genetic testing can even pinpoint the artist’s gender and possibly lead to finding a living descendent”

If I found out I’m a descendent, I’m suing every government in Europe for pilfering my inheritance, using the stolen Nazi art cases as precedent. Ka-ching!

[FroedrickVonFreepenstein]

Makes me think of the Dan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l6PR4l3FF8

[SunkenCiv]

I'm guessing, due to the cool conditions, preservation of cells sloughed off when the artists applied the colors with their bare hands.

[Verginius Rufus]

Earliest known version of Windows.

[PIF]

And what about Denisovan-Human hybrids or Denisovan-Neanderthal-Human hybrids? Its not an either or question - there are numerous combinations.

[EinNYC]

[a fool in paradise]

Who's DNA? The artist or the critic?

[dfwgator]

You have good taste.

[PIF]

Hi!

You forgot to write anything :)

[SunkenCiv]

All three of them are humans, for one thing.

The Denisovan sample came from handful of individuals. I carry Denisovan DNA, along with Neandertal DNA, along with DNA from other archaic specimens. Whatever rattles through the daddy-mommy 50% sieve is what each generation gets and preserves, luck of the draw.

> The fossils of five distinct Denisovans from Denisova Cave have been identified through their Ancient DNA (aDNA): Denisova 2, Denisova 3, Denisova 4, Denisova 8, and Denisova 13. Denisova 11 was an F1 Denisovan-Neanderthal hybrid.[8] An mtDNA-based phylogenetic analysis of these individuals suggests that Denisova 2 is the oldest, followed by Denisova 8, while Denisova 3 and Denisova 4 were roughly contemporaneous.[9] During DNA sequencing, a low proportion of the Denisova 2, Denisova 4 and Denisova 8 genomes were found to have survived, but a high proportion of the Denisova 3 genome was intact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisovan#Specimens

[PIF]

All three of them are humans, for one thing.

```
Yeah, that’s the ‘modern’ version, but in the past all were considered different species. This convention is sort of like calling all canines ‘dogs’ - a blanket generic name, meaning nothing, but does make ‘modern’ physical anthropologists academic lives easier.

[SunkenCiv]

Cave drawing, cave painting, chrono, duplicates out:

• Cave Paintings of the Altamira Cave and Lascaux Cave, to Hurrian Hymns [2020]
• Ancient Art Found in Basque Country Changes Understanding of Prehistoric Society [2020]
• We should gene-sequence cave paintings to find out more about who made them [2019]
• Down to the last detail: How our ancestors with autistic traits led a revolution in Ice Age art [2018]
• Indonesian island found to be unusually rich in cave paintings [2017]
• Cave art trove found in Spain 1,000 feet underground [2016]
• Stunning cave paintings found 300 metres below Spain [2016]
• Prehistoric Hand Stencils In Spanish Caves Not Randomly Placed, Say Researchers [2016]
• Chauvet Cave: The Most Accurate Timeline Yet Of Who Used The Cave And When [2016]
• 'Cave of forgotten dreams' may hold earliest painting of volcanic eruption [2016]
• Coolest Archaeological Discoveries of 2014 [CHEESE!] [2014]
• Indonesian Cave Art Among Science's Top 10 Breakthroughs of 2014 [2014]
• Possible Neanderthal rock engraving in Gorham's Cave [2014]
• Hallucinogenic Plants May Be Key to Decoding Ancient Southwestern Paintings, Expert Says [2014]
• Scientists say Indonesia cave drawings the same age as those in Europe [2014]
• Study Claims Cave Art Made By Neanderthals [2014]
• Prehistoric hunting scenes unearthed in Spanish cave [2014]
• Altamira cave paintings to be opened to the public once again [2014]
• Cave Art Reveals Ancient View of Cosmos [2013]
• New dating puts cave art in the age of Neanderthals [2012]
• Famous Cave Paintings Might Not Be From Humans [2012]
• Spain claims top spot for world's oldest cave art (Is it a Neanderthal "painting?") [2012]
• The Top Four Candidates for Europe's Oldest Work of Art [2012]
• The writing on the wall: Symbols from the Palaeolithic [2012]
• 'The Oldest (Neanderthal) Work Of Art Ever': 42,000-Year-Old Paintings Of Seals Found In Spain [2012]
• Prehistoric Cave Paintings of Horses Were Spot-On, Say Scientists [2011]
• From the Cave to the Kennel [2011]
• Stone-age toddlers had art lessons, study says [2011]
• Tests confirm age of prehistoric carving in Wales [2011]
• Cave of Forgotten Dreams [2011]
• Missing Parts of Sphinx Found in German Cave [2011]
• Bear DNA is clue to age of Chauvet cave art [2011]
• The 30,000 Year Old Cave that Descends into Hell [2011]
• Megafauna cave painting could be 40,000 years old [2010]
• Religious beliefs are the basis of the origins of Palaeolithic art [2010]
• Magnificence on Cave Walls [2010]
• Maha group finds cave paintings in Satpura ranges[India] [2009]
• PICTURES: Prehistoric European Cave Artists Were Female [2009]
• Cave Painting Depicts Extinct Marsupial Lion [2009]
• Prehistoric cave paintings took up to 20,000 years to complete [2008]
• Many hands painted Lascaux caves [2008]
• Rare Cave Inscriptions [2008]
• Can Ice Age art survive Man's attempt to save it? (Lascaux Cave Paintings) [2008]
• Ice Age Cave Art Preserved [2007]
• Egypt's Oldest Known Art Identified, Is 15,000 Years Old [2007]
• Earliest Horse Figures Of Anatolia In Eskiºehir [2007]
• Paviland Cave And The Red Lady [2007]
• Implications for the Behavioral Modernity of Neandertals [2006]
• Ancient cave in France throws up rare finds [ Vilhonneur ] [2006]
• Are cave paintings really little more than the testosterone-fuelled scribblings of young men? [2006]
• Study: Modern Humans Killed Off Neanderthals Quickly [2006]
• Modern humans 'blitzed Europe'(Radiocarbon Dating Development) [2006]
• Modern humans took over Europe in just 5,000 years [2006]
• Humans vs. Neanderthals: Game Over Earlier [2006]
• Cave Drawings Reportedly 25,000 Years Old [2006]
• Cave Paintings Reveal Ice Age Artists [2005]
• Modern humans, Neanderthals shared earth for 1,000 years [2005]
• Macro-Etymology: Paleosigns [writing 20,000 years ago?] [2005]
• Oldest rock art in Britain: 12,800 years [2005]
• Were Cavemen Painting For Their Gods? [2005]
• Ancient Engravings Found In Somerset Cave [2005]
• Unprecedented Ice Age Cave Art Discovered In UK [2004]
• Shell Beads From South African Cave Show Modern Human Behavior 75,000 Years Ago [2004]
• Cave Colours Reveal Mental Leap [2003]
• Stone Age Code Red: Scarlet Symbols Emerge In Israeli Cave [2003]
• Britain And France In Dispute Over Cave Art [2003]
• Archaeologists Unearth Britain's First Cave Pictures [2003]
• Prehistoric Images Threatened by Fungi (French Scientists Surrender To Mold) [2003]
• Science Shows Cave Art Developed Early [2001]