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Sobran: My Obsession with Jews [for all who mistakenly think he is a valuable contributor]
Federal Observer ^ | maybe 10/30/03 | Joe Sobran

Posted on 10/30/2003 8:04:40 AM PST by Chancellor Palpatine

Edited on 10/30/2003 9:21:43 AM PST by Lead Moderator. [history]

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To: Torie
I have read previous examples of false dichotomies, but this one takes the cake.

I'll take that as a vote for Bill.

241 posted on 10/30/2003 8:21:58 PM PST by St.Chuck
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To: St.Chuck
I take it as a Manichean false dichotomy, posed by one with a desire to tempt somebody to check a loaded box.
242 posted on 10/30/2003 8:28:44 PM PST by Torie
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To: Sabertooth
Words of reason, which I predict will go unheeded.
243 posted on 10/30/2003 8:39:43 PM PST by Valin (A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject)
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To: Positive
Positive, as a fallen away Catholic, you seem to be faulting the Evangelist and the Bible for a difficult to understand passage. But that is just the opposite of Al's position, who maintained that the Bible is very clear if only one rejected those Catholic doctrines and rituals.

"P.S. To Mr. Sobran (who professes to be a practicing Catholic, I believe). In the Bible, God says that He will Bless those nations that bless the Jewish people, and CURSE those nations that persecute them. Methinks he needs to get away from his catechisms and "Hail Marys" and actually READ the Book! (I am not anti-Catholic - I merely subscribe to the well-documented view that extra-Biblical Catholic Church doctrine and rituals can often obscure for the average man the TRUE meaning of the Scriptures. So, Mr. Sobran - READ the Scriptures FIRST! Then it will all become clearer to you.)"

244 posted on 10/30/2003 9:29:38 PM PST by Rushian
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Comment #245 Removed by Moderator

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To: mrustow
"Serge" is not a [sic], this is the way he spells it for his book. I realize it's a transliteration. Further, they are writers in non-mainstream publications, which bolsters my point. The movement is defined by those who represent it to the public and the only paleocon columnists who are syndicated to any reasonable extent are Buchanan, Sobran and Reese.

I'm sure there are a few important paleocons writing for Penny Savers throughout the country but they just don't count.

249 posted on 10/31/2003 6:08:43 AM PST by AmishDude
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To: Mr. Mojo
I guess it's never occurred to Sobran the Israel's enemies and our enemies are one and the same.

THAT IS TRUE.

YOU ALSO SEE THAT W/ BUCHANAN AND ROBERT NOVAK. EVEN IN THE HEIGHT OF THE COLD WAR, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY COULD NOT ADMIT THAT SYRIA (FOR EXAMPLE) WAS A SATELLITE OF SOVIET INTEREST IN THE MIDDLE EAST. NOVAK IN PARTICULAR GOES THROUGH COUNTLESS GYRATIONS AND CONTRADICTIONS TO AVOID ACKNOWLEDGING THIS.

ES
250 posted on 10/31/2003 9:08:06 AM PST by eddiespaghetti
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To: veronica
Lately he's taken to cavorting with Holocaust deniers. What a loser.

Sobran's hatred has driven him to the point of borderline sanity. The most outrageous revelations about his personal life wouldn't surprise me at this point.

251 posted on 10/31/2003 9:17:44 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: Torie
I have read previous examples of false dichotomies, but this one takes the cake. Meanwhile, Sobran, if taken seriously, which he is not, because he is a lightweight, would in my mind be exhibit "A" for the intellectual bankruptcy of conservatism. By the way, is Sobran an economic protectionist, both vis a vis imports, and propping up sunset domestic industries? Just curious, if he has swallowed whole the entirety of the paleo package.

Friend Torie:

In the first place, Sobran should certainly be taken seriously, on at least two counts.


On a purely literary front, Sobran's Alias Shakespeare accounts one of the better arguments which I have read for the authorship of the more-esteemed Shakespeare plays in favor of Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford.

Of course, I suppose that it is possible that William Shakespeare himself penned the "Shakespeare" Plays (a Peasant whom could barely write his own Name -- and lest you think me an Elitist, remember that I am Social Trash myself); but we should remember that if the Authorship of the Gospels were so utterly suspect, it is perhaps dubious that there ever would have been such a thing as Christianity.

By contrast, in terms of his education, experience, habits, and even sexual proclivities (a line of criticism quite favored by modern Freudians) -- Sobran makes his Alias, Shakespeare case in favor of Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford quite compellingly, I think.

Of course, if you should prefer, I won't deny the possibility that Bill Stratford-upon-Avon wrote the greatest Plays in the English Language... despite the fact that he could scarcely sign his own name.


Beyond his purely historical talents, however, I daresay that if you were to combine Joseph Sobran's writings with those of PJ O'Rourke, you'd end up with the closest approximation of HL Mencken that the latter 20th Century has to offer.

"Influential"? No.
But a "Lightweight"? Certainly not. Were he a lightweight, he'd indubitably go much further in terms of Mass Audiences. Perhaps if he had the looks of Brad Pitt?

No, Sobran (for all his lack of Zionism... a distasteful quality to a convinced Zionist like myself) is simply a curmudgeon. And with that I can empathize.

What is more... Sobran never endorsed Economic Protectionism, I'll have you to know; his endorsement of Buchanan was always a matter of Personal Friendship, not Economic Agreement. He has always been a consummate Free Trader; perhaps now more than ever. Sobran's more-or-less given up on the State entirely:

To which I can only say... good for him.

I occasionally encounter FReepers who are still worried about "Christian Reconstructionism". Such folks seem to have missed the fact that RJ Rushdoony is dead.

The Christian Reconstructionists have all become Libertarians. Joseph Sobran (the most "fundamentalist" of all Roman Catholic pundits) is now a Libertarian too... if we can even constrain him to Libertarianism; he's practically a Natural-Order Anarchist now ("Family, Church, Contract... who needs the State?")

Paleos?

Truth is, with the Union-pandering exception of Pat Buchanan (whose Economic Foolishness doesn't even enjoy the support of his friends), there isn't a single "Paleo-Economic Conservative" around today.

Closest you'll get is a Libertarian Free-Trader who favors limits on massive immigration and who prefers (but is not so stupid as to enforce) Traditional Mores (i.e., Joseph Sobran).

best, OP

252 posted on 11/01/2003 9:21:53 AM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
He used to be a good writer, but as he himself admits, he is now obsessed and his writing has deteriorated. I've lost my respect for him
253 posted on 11/01/2003 6:21:48 PM PST by Michael2001 (Every man lives, and every man dies, but not every man truly lives)
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To: AmishDude

what is 'frightening' about it?


254 posted on 08/25/2005 4:57:59 PM PDT by colormebemused
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To: colormebemused

Why did you click on a 2-year-old thread?


255 posted on 08/25/2005 5:08:39 PM PDT by AmishDude (Join the AmishDude fan club: "ROFLOL!" -- tuliptree76)
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