Make the appropiate adjustment for the business of choice.
Posted on 07/18/2004 11:04:36 AM PDT by Mulder
FAIRFAX, Va. (AP) - Carrying a weapon in public is legal in Virginia, but it's also upsetting to some. One restaurant chain owner had employees at his four northern Virginia shops post signs last week prohibiting firearms and declaring themselves a "safe zone." Kevin M. Tracy, director of operations for The Bungalow, said the restaurants banned gun-toting customers in March after a man with a firearm strapped to his hip sat down in its Franconia restaurant and ordered a drink. The man properly asserted that Virginia law allows him to openly carry his weapon.
But Tracy thinks guns, with the exception of those carried by police officers, have no place in his restaurants. "People change when they have alcohol," Tracy told The Washington Post. "I think people make too many bad judgments. I've had people who were perfectly wonderful snap."
Virginia residents must have permits to carry concealed weapons, which are prohibited by law from establishments that serve alcohol -- but guns openly displayed are permitted.
Still, restaurant and other business owners in the state have the right to ban customers carrying weapons - both openly carried and concealed - on their property, said Tom Lisk, general counsel for the Virginia Hospitality & Travel Association. Establishments can either post a notice or approach customers directly, he said, and people who violate the notice can be prosecuted under a trespass statute.
Tim Murtaugh, a spokesman for Virginia Attorney General Jerry W. Kilgore, said his office could not comment on whether businesses may legally ban patrons carrying guns, because it requires an "interpretation of law" that could not immediately be provided.
Many residents didn't know they had the right to pack a pistol in public until recent incidents in northern Virginia shops and restaurants. Fairfax police have said that residents have been spotted in the county with guns strapped to their hips three times in recent weeks.
Police said a group of men openly carrying guns at a Champps restaurant in Reston last month prompted a 911 call. Three days after that, an officer spotted a couple packing pistols at Reston Town Center. The instances involved members of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, an organization of thousands of gun owners statewide, according to Philip Van Cleave, the group's president.
Jim Snyder, 54, of the Kingstowne area, one of the gun owners spotted at Champps, said there's an unfair perception that he and his brethren are prone to violence. He carries his Colt .45 for protection, he said.
"I'm definitely not a wannabe Rambo," said Snyder, who does not have a concealed weapons permit and must carry his gun openly. "I'd rather skulk away from a confrontation than go in. This is a tool of last resort."
The issue is expected to come up for debate in the General Assembly next year. Some lawmakers who share Tracy's concern said the debate, as in recent years, is likely to center on whether patrons should be allowed to carry guns in restaurants, such as The Bungalow, that serve alcohol.
State Sen. Janet D. Howell (D-Fairfax) said she'll reintroduce a bill that would prohibit openly carried guns anywhere alcohol is served.
"I think that any reasonable person would agree that alcohol and guns don't mix," Howell said. "It's better to make sure that nothing happens than be sorry afterward."
Jim Sollo, president of Virginians Against Handgun Violence, said his group believes the combination of guns and alcohol will eventually lead to trouble. He's counting on the recent episodes to stir up support for Howell's legislation next year.
"We think open carrying is dangerous. Sooner or later one of these guys is going to do something stupid or an unfortunate accident is going to happen," Sollo said.
But Van Cleave, a former Texas deputy sheriff who said most gun owners are law-abiding citizens, stressed that restaurant and other business owners already can bar weapons from their businesses if they choose. He said his members respect those choices and are advised to "politely leave" if asked.
Mike Stollenwerk, the man who was asked to leave The Bungalow that March evening, said he often openly carries his weapon in restaurants and "if people feel uncomfortable I've never noticed it."
bang
Will this apply to cops also?
"It's better to make sure that nothing happens than be sorry afterward."
Which is exactly the reason many of us carry guns.
Jim Sollo, president of Virginians Against Handgun Violence, said his group believes the combination of guns and alcohol will eventually lead to trouble
So is this bozo also planning to ban cars from restuarant parking lots since "guns and cars" don't mix?
FYI
Some armed customers likely to ban area businesses.
Many Armed Customers May Take Their $$$ Elsewhere.
Both perfectly legal. Freedom works both ways.
Need to fix that for him.
...post signs last week prohibiting firearms and declaring themselves a "victim disarmament zone".
Maybe they should post one of those other signs? "We don't trust you with your own safety. We just want your money." Or words to that effect.
I smell boycott...
Make the appropiate adjustment for the business of choice.
Can a restaurant owner ban non-smokers?
One good way to do this is in a large group. If writing letters doesn't work, then get about 20 folks together, who are all open carrying, then show up and ask to be seated. See what the response is.
You can add an additional twist by having a few pro-RKBA folks go in right before the "big group", and then once the "big group" is asked to leave, the "smaller group" (not carrying) then speaks to the manager and explains to them that they are leaving since the restauarant doesn't recognize RKBA.
Alternatively, you can have most of the "big group" take their seats first (unarmed), then have a couple of guys come in openly carrying who join the group. Then when the restaurant asks them to leave, EVERYONE gets up and walks out.
There are so many variations that you can have fun with. Many business owners only care about $$$$, so that is the language you have to use when dealing with them. Most will take down their signs when they start losing $$$$.
---But Tracy thinks guns, with the exception of those carried by police officers, have no place in his restaurants. ---
When he sees his numbers after this move he may change his mind.
I don't carry. I will be dining in Northern VA from time to time. I will not patronize a so-called safe zone. Lubee's in Texas was a safe zone.
Many Armed Customers May Take Their $$$ Elsewhere.
Both perfectly legal. Freedom works both ways.
Exactly, property owners have the freedom of choice on both sides of this issue.
Those choosing to ban good guys with guns from their establishments are insuring that the robbers and rapists out there know which potential victims are unarmed. I'll bet they are making a list of establishments as we speak.
In a Free country that respected private businesses they could. Probably couldn't do it in the USA though.
Exactly true...I USED to eat lunch on occasion at that VERY restaurant in Franconia. Its not like it is some kind of high-class joint, fer crying out loud....."Bungalow Billiards and Brew".
Operative word "USED to".
Update! ... Update! ... Some armed customers will not spend their money in known, leftist, business establishments.
Ban cars from bars since drunk drivers are far more dangerous than guns or cars...
In fact ban people from alcohol as alchol is almost always present in every type of violent crime..
MORE LAWS... we need more laws....more laws....and prisons...and lawyers..and judges...and cops...and money....more laws....
Then we will finally be safe.....nirvana a land were everyone is happy cause there is a law against not being happy...we got rid of all the not happy law breakers...
Nirvana has vacancies...lots and lots of vacancies...
"I will not patronize a so-called safe zone"
I don't carry either, but I don't like to patronize businesses that essentially invite armed robberies.
I wonder if there are any 7-11's participating in this program? LOL
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