Iraq Was Supposed To Become Like The USA - But The Reverse Has Happened: Part II

The Stiletto ^ | February 5, 2007 | The Stiletto

[theothercheek]

In the days before the mid-term election, The Stiletto observed that Americans were dividing themselves into political and ideological tribes, creating schisms that parallel those between the Sunni and Shia in Iraq – the inevitable outcome being utter destruction of national identity and purpose.

Now, The New York Times reports that the Iraq war and Saddam’s trial and execution are escalating sectarian tensions between Sunni and Shia right here in the US – a country that has no state religion, and in which millions of (legal) immigrants of every creed and color have hitherto lived together in harmony because they assimilated, became citizens, adopted American mores and values and left ancient hatreds and rivalries behind in the Old Country:

Escalating tensions between Sunnis and Shiites across the Middle East are rippling through some American Muslim communities, and have been blamed for events including vandalism and student confrontations. Political splits between those for and against the American invasion of Iraq fuel some of the animosity, but it is also a fight among Muslims about who represents Islam. …

Before, most major cities had only one mosque and everyone was forced to get along. Now, some Muslim communities are so large that the majority Sunnis and minority Shiites maintain their own mosques, schools and social clubs.

Americans are watching – albeit at a distance - Muslims agitating to impose Sharia law in Europe because they refuse to adapt to the laws and customs of the countries in which they now live. It’s about to get up close and personal, as Muslims living in the US don’t all consider themselves Americans.Here’s what one Iraqi immigrant tells The New York Times (emphasis, The Stiletto’s):

"The Shiites were very happy that they killed Saddam, but the Sunnis were in tears," Aqeel Al-Tamimi, 34, an immigrant Iraqi truck driver and a Shiite, said. … "These people look at us like we sold our country to America." …

The paper cites other examples of Sunni-Shia animosity: "Stabbings and other violence between Sunni and Shiite prisoners in New York state jails prompted a long-running lawsuit by Shiite inmates seeking separate prayer facilities" and concludes that, "Some Muslims worry that the friction might erupt in greater violence in the United States. Others, in both camps, think the tension could prove healthy, forcing American Muslims to start a dialogue about Muslim differences."

The only civil war this country fought was to settle fundamental human rights issues, and to make America a more perfect union in which states north and south of the Mason-Dixon line realized the vision of our Founding Fathers.

Americans are not about to let blood to run in the streets over whether fatwas based on Koranic interpretation can only be issued by descendants of Mohammad, or whether a consensus among religious "scholars" is as legit.

Frankly, we don’t give a damn.

Note: In case I did not put all the links in correctly, please go to the original source.

[Lazamataz]

I didn't read this article, so in case it was good, kudos.

In case it was bad, boo on you.

[yankeedame]

Frankly, we don’t give a damn.

Nor should we. Like a man helping his neighbor put out a fire in the other man's house. He does it as much (if not more) for his own house as for his neighbor's. We did not go to Iraqi to make it like the United State, we went to Iraqi to protect the United States by fighting the enemy on their soil, not ours.

[theothercheek]

I know that, and you know that, but our president doesn't seem to know that. In the SOTU he again talked about the Golden Mosque being blown up as one of the reasons we need to be in Iraq. Those mosques are weapons caches so instead of waiting for a Shia to blow up a Sunni mosque or vice versa we should be blowing them all up ourselves. To think that one drop of Amernican blood has been shed over a mosque.

[Coldwater Creek]

THANK YOU! Someone besides myself gets it!

[InvisibleChurch]

The Left hates the United States so much they ought to be happy Iraq isn't turning out like it.

[Coldwater Creek]

Our President is not as dumb as you make him out to be. He has said that we are fighting over there to keep the WOT off of our shores over and over!

I do agree with you that the mosques should no longer be off limits, but we hit the first one, and the cowards will be filling them with women and children, along with arsenal.

[jude24]

We did not go to Iraqi to make it like the United State, we went to Iraqi to protect the United States by fighting the enemy on their soil, not ours.

That excuse is so 2005.

Like it or not, we went in because we thought - as far as I can tell, reasonably but wrongly - that Saddam Hussein was seeking and actually had WMD's. We also justified it on the grounds of creating a neo-conservative "city on a hill," believing ourselves to be on a mission from God to create a beacon of democracy in the Middle East. This "flypaper" theory didn't come into vogue until it was clear there were no WMD's, but that Saddam Hussein instead took advantage of the prestige the innuendo that he did gave him. The Flypaper theory, additionally, has been discredited by the London tube bombings and the countless stopped terrorist attacks here.

There's only one defense of the war necessary - with the best intelligence we had at the time, we reasonably believed Saddam had WMD's and so acted appropriately. Our mistake was not in going in, but trying to do it cheap so that the occupation was incredibly botched. Iraq is a quagmire, yes, but it is one because of actions that happened in 2004-2005, not 2003-2004.

[moonman]

I don't see the reverse happening at all. Iraq looks EXACTLY like Ameria. There are those that try and help build and protect the country and those that constantly try to intiminate and tear it down? Where is the reverse?

[rhombus]

I have to disagree with your neo-con bashing. We went to Iraq for many reasons...so many reasons that the left kept insisting before the invasion that the Administration kept changing its reasons when in fact it was ALL of the reasons. WMD? Of course. Setting up a self-sustaining democracy? Of course - that was the exit strategy. Did we go on the cheap? Perhaps but we were supposed to have help from a number of avenues that backed out... including the UN. Yes we should never anticipate help from anyone. Agreed. That was one mistake. However, the past is the past and we can't be sure that an iron-fist approach of overwhelming numbers would not have had other negative consequences. Nor can we be sure that if we'd delayed the Iraqi elections we would not have been encouraged more anti-American occupier sentiment. You may be correct that the actions of 2004 and 2005 produced whatever a "quagmire" means to you. The Maliki government has actually been in control for less than a year now. It isn't surprising to me that they are making numerous mistakes. I think those who would prematurely like to write the final chapters in Iraq as one of defeat, take a far too simplistic point of view in a broader war that we were well warned would take years and years to fight. If we as Americans take any lesson from Iraq it should be one of patience. Rome was not built in a day nor were any of the world's current democracies.

[Steel Wolf]

The Flypaper theory, additionally, has been discredited by the London tube bombings and the countless stopped terrorist attacks here.

The flypaper theory doesn't have a single credible counterterrorism analyst behind it. It's a political invention. It sounds good to people who don't understand militant Islam, but it's completely false. Most of the counterterrorism experts in the intelligence community was afraid that attacking Iraq would inflame tensions elsewhere, and lead to an increase in overall radicalization worldwide.

They were right. The only thing that's kept America safe in the interim is better intelligence cooperation between the various agencies, which was lacking before 9/11. While the idea of invading Iraq had some noble and worthwhile rationales, stopping terrorism was not one of them.

Islamic terrorism a complex problem that defies easy solutions like "kill em' there so we don't have to kill 'em here". It's a community-based social phenomenon, not a conventional military threat. Trying to apply a military solution to a social problem is bound to fail, as hindsight is bound to show us in a few years.

[paudio]

I'm just wondering about something that I haven't seen it being discussed. In every major US involvement post WWII, we saw an influx of population (refugees, etc.) from the country in question. Hence, we see many Koreans, and Vietnamese in the US. Will the same happen to Iraqis?

[theothercheek]

In this case, I believe the reverse is happening - we have not rolled out the welcome mat for Iraqi refugees. Countries in the middle east that have, are sorry as their Muslim populations have lived in peace until the Iraqis come and bring the Sunni-Shia animosity with them. There was an article in the WaPo about this yesterday:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/03/AR2007020301604_pf.html

[Axlrose]

HELL NO !!!

[RichInOC]

Iraq Was Supposed To Become Like The USA - But The Reverse Has Happened

Okay, I guess I missed the news about folks blowing themselves and others up in our big cities on a daily basis.

[ThanhPhero]

tension could prove healthy, forcing American Muslims to start a dialogue

Or it could prove healthy in that it might just force at least some Americans to see just what it is that we have so eagerly imported.

[theothercheek]

Iraq was supposed to be one nation under Allah. It is fractionalized by Sunni v. Shia hatred, Sunni v. Sunni tribal rivalry, Shia v. Shia tribal rivalry, Kurds v. Iraqi animosity, Islamists v. secularists, etc., etc. The US used to be one nation under G-d. Now, we are pro-abortion Americans v. pro-life Americans; pro-Iraq war Americans v. anti-Iraq war Americans, pro-Pres. Bush Americans v. anti-Pres. Bush Americans. We, too, have broken up into tribes just like the Iraqis. Instead of elevating them to our level of enlightened democracy, we have descended into their level of chaotic animosity.

[theothercheek]

Precisely my thoughts when I posted this.

[ThanhPhero]

The left desires the sort of chaos in the ME that this portends in order to "wean" us from oil and substitute universal public transportation and severe limits on Americans' mobility which has always anguished them.

[theothercheek]

If you read the NYT article, you will see that we are on our way to Shia v. Sunni violence here in the US. It's been a fact of life in England for years.