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Suicide Reversal? Polling the Muslim world ^ | 7/26/07 | Daniel Pipes

Posted on 07/29/2007 5:21:31 AM PDT by Valin

National Review Online asked a group of experts: "On Tuesday, Pew released a poll indicating that support for suicide bombings is on the decline in the Muslim world, among other things. How encouraging is this poll? What can we do — as a government, as private entities — to use the information constructively?" For all replies, see "Suicide Reversal?"

It is good news if Muslim support for suicide bombings is indeed declining. But it need not have much to do, as the poll takers theorize, with improved personal circumstances. Two other factors likely have more importance.

First, as Muslims themselves (in such countries as Morocco, Algeria, Egypt, Iraq, and Pakistan) become the victims of suicide bombings, they increasingly reject this tactic. The Pew Global Attitudes Project itself noted in June 2006 that this "shift has been especially dramatic in Jordan, likely in response to the devastating terrorist attack in Amman last year; 29 percent of Jordanians view suicide attacks as often or sometimes justified, down from 57 percent in May 2005."

Second, Muslims appear growingly aware that the terroristic ways of Osama bin Laden offer a less successful path to realizing the Islamist goals of imposing the Shari'a and creating a caliphate do than the political, lawful ways of Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, Turkey's newly-triumphantly reelected prime minister. Whereas terrorism stimulates its own antibodies and offers no plausible path to power, working through the system is proving successful in such diverse places as Egypt, the Palestinian Authority, Lebanon, Iraq, and Bangladesh, as well as in the West.

Therefore, this survey has more subtle and ambiguous implications than first appear.

TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: danielpipes; muslims; pew; polls; suicidebombings
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1 posted on 07/29/2007 5:21:32 AM PDT by Valin
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To: Valin

On Tuesday, Pew released a poll indicating that support for suicide bombings is on the decline in the Muslim world, among other things

A Rising Tide Lifts Mood in the Developing World
Sharp Decline in Support for Suicide Bombing in Muslim Countries

Dwindling Muslim Support for Terrorism

Even as many people around the world express more positive views of their lives and countries than they did five years ago, opinions about regional issues and concerns are a mix of good and bad news.

Among the most striking trends in predominantly Muslim nations is the continuing decline in the number saying that suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilians are justifiable in the defense of Islam. In Lebanon, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Indonesia, the proportion of Muslims who view suicide bombing and other attacks against civilians as being often or sometimes justified has declined by half or more over the past five years.

Wide majorities say such attacks are, at most, rarely acceptable. However, this is decidedly not the case in the Palestinian territories. Fully 70% of Palestinians believe that suicide bombings against civilians can be often or sometimes justified, a position starkly at odds with Muslims in other Middle Eastern, Asian, and African nations.

The decreasing acceptance of extremism among Muslims also is reflected in declining support for Osama bin Laden. Since 2003, Muslim confidence in bin Laden to do the right thing in world affairs has fallen; in Jordan, just 20% express a lot or some confidence in bin Laden, down from 56% four years ago. Yet confidence in bin Laden in the Palestinian territories, while lower than it was in 2003, remains relatively high (57%).

Opinion about Hezbollah and Hamas varies among Muslim publics. Views of both groups are favorable among most predominantly Muslim countries in the Middle East and Asia. And Palestinians have strongly positive opinions of both militant groups. But majorities in Turkey have negative impressions of both Hezbollah and Hamas.

The survey also finds that, amid continuing sectarian strife in Iraq, there is broad concern among the Muslim publics surveyed that tensions between Sunnis and Shia are not limited to that country. Nearly nine-in-ten Lebanese (88%), and solid majorities in Kuwait (73%) and Pakistan (67%), say Sunni-Shia tensions are a growing problem for the Muslim world, and are not limited to Iraq.


2 posted on 07/29/2007 5:23:18 AM PDT by Valin (History takes time. It is not an instant thing.)
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To: Valin

Will never be true until their “religion” comes out of the dark ages. Except then they will have to face the critical scrutiny that Christianity has - and will not survive except as a cult. Which it is now.

3 posted on 07/29/2007 5:27:40 AM PDT by txzman (Jer 23:29)
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To: Valin

Has Pew checked to see if there is a new fatwa that requires lying to pollsters?

4 posted on 07/29/2007 5:31:06 AM PDT by donna (The United States Constitution and the Koran are mutually exclusive.)
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To: Valin
Its does NOT mean the Muslim World has become moderate. Rather, many Islamists have realized that the more extreme variants are threatening to discredit the entire project and the way to get there is through the tactics of "legality." It doesn't mean they're reconciled to freedom or to democratic governance, since the Sharia, the Law Of God, takes precedence over human institutions and legislation.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

5 posted on 07/29/2007 5:33:06 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: txzman

And this is what we are seeing in the Islamic world.


MEMRI’s Reform in the Arab and Muslim World focuses on advocates of reform, and the debate surrounding it, within the Middle East and Muslim world. The project is divided into four main categories: Social Reform, which will focus on women’s rights, civil society, and educational systems. Political Reform, which includes debates on democracy and the rule of law, protection of the individual, and freedom of speech, religion, and assembly. Also, Religious Reform, which covers the debate on reform in Islam, as well as the misuse of religion. Finally, the Reform Project will cover Economic Reform, which examines issues of free market economy, globalization, and modernization.

6 posted on 07/29/2007 5:33:30 AM PDT by Valin (History takes time. It is not an instant thing.)
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To: goldstategop

Absolutely correct. The article clearly indicates they are still attempting to impose Sharia on the rest of the world. Nothing is really changing except the tactics.

7 posted on 07/29/2007 5:36:46 AM PDT by EBH
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To: goldstategop

I prefer to say non-Safalist. And actually Radical/Political (whatever) Islam never has had a huge following. According to Daniel Pipes (and others) it’s around 10-15%, now 10-15% of 1.3(?) billlion is a pretty big number, but it’s nowhere as large as the 85-90% who are not followers of Safalism, unfortunately they get the press.

8 posted on 07/29/2007 5:41:25 AM PDT by Valin (History takes time. It is not an instant thing.)
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To: txzman
Will never be true until their “religion” comes out of the dark ages.

I think it's more like - when they come out of their psychosis. It's like taking a poll in a very large asylum for the criminally insane. Of what use are the results, to the civilized world? When you have large areas of the middle east, where the youth are forced to read one single book over and over, and that book teaches endless wars of domination, and the only life worth living is filled with death, what other outcome could there be? Islam is an insanity machine. A BIG one.
9 posted on 07/29/2007 5:43:26 AM PDT by mutley
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To: txzman

Yes but they are winning in the areas where they are competing with nothing. They may win in Europe because the secular people there have no core values to offer in return. The euros aren’t getting married or having kids and they have this naive view of immigration which Islam is taking advantage of. Islam will take over with demographics in a bloodless coup.

10 posted on 07/29/2007 6:10:18 AM PDT by ari-freedom (An expert is a person who avoids the small errors while sweeping on to the grand fallacy.)
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To: donna
Has Pew checked to see if there is a new fatwa that requires lying to pollsters?

Yes, you clearly understand how the ROP works. It would be great if the rest of the country caught on. It is not possible to trust someone whose religion tells them to lie to infidels.

11 posted on 07/29/2007 6:15:07 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: Right Wing Assault

I received this email today. Can anyone de-bunk it? It says suicide is preferred.

The writer states the following:
“A week ago, I was able to attend a dinner with Juval Aviv - the
Israeli Agent who the movie “Munich” was about... He was Golda Meir’s
bodyguard and she appointed him to track down and bring to justice
the Palestinian terrorists who took the Israeli athletes hostage and
killed them during the Munich Olympic Games. Tonight he shared
information that EVERY American needs to know but our government has
not shared. His bio is below, his book is “Staying Safe” and I
suggest you buy and read it.

First, I am going to share what he discussed in regard to the Bush
Administration, 9/11 and Iraq and then I will share his predictions
for the next attack on the U.S. (and he predicted the London subway
bombing on the Bill O’Reilly show on Fox News stating publicly that
it would happen within a week - O’Reilly laughed and mocked him saying
that in a week he wanted him back on the show and unfortunately,
within a week the terrorist attack occured).

Juval Aviv gave intelligence (via what he had gathered in Israel and
the Middle East) to the Bush Administration about 9/11 a month before
it occured. His report specifically said they would use planes as
bombs and target high profile buildings and monuments. The
Administration ridiculed him and refused to respond (Congress has
since hired him as a security consultant - but still the
Administration does not listen to him). Within a month 9/11occured.

He didn’t agree with going into Iraq - said it didn’t make sense if
we wanted terrorists responsible for 9/11 (and also he believes in Golda
Meir’s approach which was to bring justice to the terrorists but do
not take down civilians - killing civilians only creates more
terrorists - but similar to Bush, Israel’s subsequent leaders were
not as insightful as Golda Meir) - however, when we did decide to
invade Iraq we should have learned from Israel’s past mistakes. He
very articulately stated that Israel’s greatest mistake against their
war on terror was to invade the West Bank and Gaza and stay there...
He said they should have done the proven anti-terrorist strategy
which was “Hit and Leave” instead of “Hit and Stay.” Now we are
stuck in Iraq and it is worse than Vietnam - Iraq is the U.S.’s West Bank/
Gaza. He doesn’t think we will ever be able to truly leave because
even when we are able to pull our troops back we will still have to
go back regularly which will keep us quagmired. We should have hit hard
and left immediately - or actually, we shouldn’t have gone in at all...

Now for the scary stuff.... He predicts the next attack on the U.S.
is coming within the next few months. Forget hijacking airplanes
because he says terrorists will NEVER try and hijack a plane again as
the people on the plane will not go down quietly.
Aviv believes our airport security is a joke- we are being
reactionary versus looking at strategies that are effective.
1) our machines are outdated. They look for metal and the new
explosives are made of plastic
2) He talked about how some idiot tried to light his shoe on fire -
we now have to take off our shoes, a group of idiots tried to bring
aboard liquid explosives - now we can’t bring liquids on board. He
is waiting for some suicidal maniac to pour liquid explosive on their
underwear and light up in a plane or in the terminal and then we will
all have to travel naked!
3) We only focus on security when people are heading to the gates, he
says that if a terrorist attack targets airports in the future, they
will target busy times and on the front end when people are checking
in. It would be easy for someone to take two suitcases of
explosives, walk up to a busy check-in line, ask a person next to them to watch
their bags for a minute while they run to the restroom or get a
drink (and I have done that for people myself) and then detonate the bags
BEFORE security even gets involved. Israel checks bags before people
can enter the airport.

Now, back to his predictions: He says the next attack will come in
the next few months and will involve suicide bombers and non-suicide
bombers in places that people congregate: Disneyland, Las Vegas, Big
Cities (NY, SFO, Chicago, etc...) and there it will be shoppingmalls, subways in rush hour, train stations, casinos, etc.. as well as ruralAmerica (Wyoming, Montana, etc...). The attack will be simultaneous
detonations around the country (they like big impact) 5-8 cities
including rural areas. They won’t need to use suicide bombers
because at largely populated places like the MGM Grand in Vegas - they can
simply v

12 posted on 07/29/2007 6:21:28 AM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ("Don't touch that thing")
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

“they can
simply valet park!

He says this is well known in intelligence circles but our government
does not want to alarm Americans. However, he also said that Bush
will attack Iran and Syria before he leaves office (we are being
prepared for that! and I have to wonder if we are not hearing about
this impending attack so America will support attacking Iran and
Syria?). In addition, since we don’t have enough troops Bush will
likely use small, strategic nuclear weapons regardless that the
headlines the next day will read “US Nukes Islamic World” and the
world will be a different place to such an extent that global warming
will be irrevelent.”

13 posted on 07/29/2007 6:22:54 AM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ("Don't touch that thing")
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To: Valin

If they would just commit suicide, I wouldn’t care. It’s that they commit an act with double effect: blow up Christians and Jews, and themselves in the process. Blowing up Christians and Jews is wrong. Eliminating their hate-filled savage selves would not be a bad thing.

14 posted on 07/29/2007 6:27:00 AM PDT by Leftism is Mentally Deranged
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

So, is this why the dingbat head of homeland security had a “gut feeling” that there was going to be a terrorist attack? He actually has intelligence to that fact, but can’t say so publicly?

15 posted on 07/29/2007 6:29:59 AM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: Valin
If Christians could defy logic, authority, fear, and mortal danger to rise above the horrors perpetrated by so-called "Christians" in the Middle Ages--e.g. torture chambers established in the name of God (what could be a greater blasphemy, not to mention perversion?); executions, often brutal, for heresy; the murder of non-believers; et al.--perhaps Muslims may hear the Voice of God also.

The mind struggles to comprehend how so-called "Christians", when torturing and killing, could deceive themselves into believing that they were serving God when they were obviously serving Satan; that, when they committed such atrocities in the name of God, they were not committing the ultimate blasphemy; that in worshipping the god of death, torture, and violence they were worshipping not God but Satan. The mind struggles to comprehend how Muslims could be similarly misguided.

Christian emergence from the horrors and delusions of the Middle Ages was a long, hard time coming. Muslim emergence is taking longer, if indeed it will come at all.

However, after giving Puritanism a final fling under Oliver Cromwell, the English had had enough of horror, violence, and the perversion of God's will and worship and ushered in a more enlightened civilization. Perhaps Muslims will do the same.

This is not to encourage mindless optimism. Denial is the most dangerous thing there is.

And it is definitely not to encourage the routine mindless optimism, denial, and delusion of the psychotic Left.

It is merely an observation.

16 posted on 07/29/2007 6:46:31 AM PDT by Savage Beast ("History is not just cruel. It is witty." ~Charles Krauthammer)
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To: Valin

I guess all the people in favor of suicide bombing already blew themselves up.

17 posted on 07/29/2007 7:00:55 AM PDT by sportutegrl
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To: Savage Beast

The mind struggles to comprehend how so-called “Christians”, when torturing and killing, could deceive themselves into believing that they were serving God

The mind shouldn’t struggle. The Church was, at that time, a great societal powercenter. As such it attracted the same type of Evil that ANY such powercenter tends to attract. ie: The types who want to make sure that others live as THEY say others should. (by the way there is such a “powercenter” attracting these types in the present day)

“Thrust” NEVER changes direction. Evil, as a force, is subject to this law.

18 posted on 07/29/2007 8:10:50 AM PDT by TalBlack
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To: sportutegrl

can’t all muzzies just commit suicide without killing others???

what a wonderful world it could be!!!

19 posted on 07/29/2007 8:12:51 AM PDT by nyyankeefan
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To: Valin

Muslims Mellowing According to Survey

The Bush Administration has cited a Pew Research Center poll as a justification for its decision to fund armaments for the Fatah faction of the Palestinian government. According to the poll, “only” 70 percent of Palestinian Muslims now believe suicide bombing is justified. This is down from the 94 percent figure from last year’s poll. The Administration also took encouragement from the poll showing that the United States’ image in Muslim-majority countries has risen to “abysmal” from last year’s “horrible.”


20 posted on 07/29/2007 9:05:51 AM PDT by John Semmens
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