Utah Approves Gold! (as legal tender)

Libertarian Republicsn ^ | April 6, 2011 | Eric Dondero

[buzzer]

Euro rise to 14-month high vs dollar before ECB
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2700680/posts

[jongaltsr]

"From a practical standpoint, how will this work"?

You tender your gold or silver as payment for "X" product. The value of gold / silver is known per minute. Any cash returned you use like you always do.- only thing is that it is at that point not devalued as much as money you had in the bank because the value of the gold/silver increased.

Don't let it sit in your bank account - That is the trick

Any paper money you spend immediately on your immediate needs. Your keep your gold/silver for emergencies.

[jongaltsr]

By using the term "legal tender", they are declaring that the value of a Gold Eagle is $50, its face value if it is used as money. Likewise, a Silver Eagle's face value is $1.

This is unfortunate. For this reason, no one with a brain will use gold and silver bullion coins as legal tender in Utah. This provision of the law was ill-advised and needs to be rewritten.

You obviously do not understand how gold is exchanged.

A St.Gaudins Gold 1 oz coin is worth close to $2000.

If you are willing to exchange it for $50 please come to me. I will buy everything you have

[jongaltsr]

Everybody should read this speech...........

[expat_panama]

I hope they can make depository receipts to be legal currency.

You're hoping they'll print money, showing the stupidity of Paul's 'keep you from printing money' quote.

[omega4179]

Right, but they are not coining it. They are just encouraging it.

[Still Thinking]

Some employer paid his employees along those lines: say, $50/week ... paid in gold US face-value coin. The IRS had a problem with that.

I can't see how they got him for that. What he was paying them in was in fact legal currency, and he was reporting the value. I would have thought that in order to get him what they'd have had to do was say "Oh, if that gold is evaluated at face value, you're only paying your people $0.50 an hour, and therefore you're in violation of minimum wage laws." How can the US government go to court, state that the value of the currency is NOT what it has already stated it was, and WIN?

[DannyTN]

"“The gold standard would keep you from printing money and destroying the middle class,” said Republican Congressman Ron Paul"

Ron Paul is an idiot.

• The gold standard doesn't keep you from printing money unless you ban banking. (Example Larry deposits $100 gold, the bank loans it to Curly who deposits his $100 of gold in his bank. Now you have $200 of deposits and $100 of loans. Congrats you just printed $100 on the gold standard.)
• It doesn't stop a government from borrowing money, they'll just promise that your children will pay it back in gold.
• Unless there are vast new discoveries, the growth in gold can not keep up with the growth in the population or the growth in goods, almost guaranteeing deflation.
• Because of it's limited supply gold is highly speculated upon, and consequently we would see severe swings of inflation and deflation like we did in the 1800's.
• There are 5 billion oz's of gold in the world, there are 6 billion people.
• China is the largest producer of gold today. China would have more say over our money supply than we do.

[Publius]

On the contrary, I know exactly how gold is exchanged -- when you're dealing with a gold, silver or coin dealer. I know exactly how much an old St. Gaudens Double Eagle goes for, along with the exchange rate for a modern Canadian Maple Leaf.

What you don't understand is that when you are dealing with a government agency enabled by legal tender laws, that very valuable ounce of gold goes for only its face value. Under the Utah law as written, if you want to pay a state tax with gold, that one ounce Gold Eagle is only worth its $50 face value to the state. That's all you'll get, even if today's gold dealer value for that coin is closer to $1500.

This is why that provision of the law needs to be replaced. It's a trap.

[Noumenon]

When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion - when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you- when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice- you may know that your society is doomed.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is a true and accurate chronicle of our time. With consequences so dire and so grave that none of us - even those (especially those) who suppose themselves safe and above it all - will escape those consequences. At the end of the day, it's ultimately not about money. Money's only one of the means to a particular end. An end desired and driven by killers without conscience. And that end is a nightmare world of slaughter and atrocity. The nudge, the gradual squeeze - and then the shove. This is the foundation and the prerequisite for a world in which neither love, nor mercy, nor hope survive. It is a world in which all of your hopes, aspirations and dreams, all of your love of country and family not only count for naught, because they - and you - will be extinguished as if you never had existed. Because you surely must be if these will-to-power driven monsters are to rule without fear of opposition.

There can be only one response to such monstrous evil.

[dynachrome]

That is a much better speech than Galt’s in the book.

[Alex Murphy]

From a practical standpoint, how will this work?

Like one of these:

[SaraJohnson]

It’s good on Utah as Obama and Hillary have done in our oil supply with the Saudis.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/nbc-s-brokaw-saudis-so-unhappy-obama-adm

[count-your-change]

Well. screams, those are not U.S. currency or tender are they? Ever find any in the cash register? No, I didn't thinks so, they function as bullion coins like the U.S. silver rounds..............right?, player

[NYCslicker]

Very interesting. We should watch this very closely.

[count-your-change]

Given a choice of a $10 redeemable gold certificate and a $10 Fed. Reserve note, which one would you keep and which would you spend?
Yes, I think I know your answer but it seems the concept is lost on some readers.

[Jim Noble]

American gold and silver eagles are already legal tender in all 50 states.

[NYCslicker]

Good work in posting that.

[ScreamingFist]

Well. screams, those are not U.S. currency or tender are they? Ever find any in the cash register? No, I didn't thinks so, they function as bullion coins like the U.S. silver rounds..............right?, player

I know you are not this stupid.....If you found a Krugerrand in your cash register, you would throw it away? Go BS someone else....idiot.

[Jim Noble]

Think about it: the State of Utah can now *require* payment in gold or silver instead of hyper-inflated US dollars.

They sure can.

What they CAN'T do is specify a value other than $50/oz. for gold and $1/oz. for silver, since Congress has the power to regulate the value of coin.