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To: Owl558; Persevero; Kaslin; metmom; boatbums; caww; smvoice; presently no screen name; wmfights; ...

There is no question that the Bible allows only men to be apostles/elders/bishops, the instructions are plain...”

Interesting. I’d like to read for myself. Can you point me to where the bible plainly instructs us that only men should be apostles/elders/bishops?

This is a subject of contention in which the historical position is less popular, but here goes. First, for more of my examination of this subject by God's grace see here. For substantiation on the sanction of the practice of female pastors within Protestantism being a recent development, and for more on 1Cor. 14:35 as i likely somewhat imperfectly see it, see here.

As for your polemic, if by "plainly" you mean a verse that states plainly "only men shall be ordained apostles/elders/bishops," then you will find it right next to the verse that states, "though shall not marry fish" or the “thou shalt not engage in the practice of consensual cannibalism.”

The point being that if even these prohibitions can be warranted derivations, then how much more is the rule of male leadership, when Scripture only has them ordained as O.T. priests, and as apostles/elders/bishops in the New, and distinctly requires general silence of women in the assembly as regards giving the word of God in the church, occupying the office of a teacher, and straightly forbids women having authority over men, by principle and precept, and thus the aforementioned type of greater explicitness is not needed.

Likewise, while scripture does not explicitly forbid marrying fish (it forbids bestiality, but the word for beast is never used for fish, to my knowledge), and it only describes and sanctions marriage between opposite genders.(Gn. 2:18,24; Mt. 19:4,5)

Nor does Scripture plainly forbid consensual cannibalism, like “you have me for dinner if i die first.” But as it only provides as food beast of the earth, and fowl of the air, and fishes of the sea and fruit and veggies for food, (Gn. 9:2,3) and never sanctions eating the flesh of men (while cannibalism metaphorically used in the negative sense of Israel's enemies: Ps. 27:2), then a general prohibition of cannibalism is warranted.

However, as the law is meant to save lives and not destroy them, (Lk. 6:9) and food itself is not sin, then in case of dire need cannibalism of the already dead (by natural causes) - as in the case of the Andes survivors - might be allowed.

Likewise while female authority over men is contrary to the rule of God, yet there can be exceptions, to the shame of men who would not lead, as in the case of Deborah in the period of Israel's declension. But exceptions do not make the rule.

Nor is the women excluded from ministry, as they are are part of the team, but the male is to be the quarterback.

Moreover, when a covenantal distinction or important departure from the norm does exist then the norm in revelation is that the Holy Spirit makes it manifest.

Primary texts which support only male leadership in the family and the church are:


12 posted on 03/18/2012 12:38:57 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to forgive+save you,+live....)
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To: daniel1212

“As for your polemic, if by “plainly” you mean a verse that states plainly “only men shall be ordained apostles/elders/bishops,” then you will find it right next to the verse that states, “though shall not marry fish” or the “thou shalt not engage in the practice of consensual cannibalism.” “

The directions for ordaining men only as elders are not near any verses about fish or cannibalism.


14 posted on 03/18/2012 2:39:35 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: daniel1212; Owl558; Persevero; Kaslin; metmom; boatbums; caww; smvoice; presently no screen name
Great post.

Let me add a different thought to the discussion. The writer is making a fundamental error in thinking that the demise of Biblical Christianity among the European Protestant churches is a decline in Biblical Christianity. However, Evangelical Christians are growing in number throughout Asia, Africa and in Central and South America. Also, as the European Protestant Churches have declined in America we have seen Biblically centered non-denominational and Pentecostal churches growing.

24 posted on 03/18/2012 8:04:42 PM PDT by wmfights
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