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Chaos in southern Ukraine: Deadly fire, choppers down and street fighting
CNN World ^ | updated 9:23 PM EDT, Fri May 2, 2014 | By Nick Paton Walsh, Chelsea J. Carter and Victoria Butenko, CNN

Posted on 05/02/2014 8:28:00 PM PDT by Mariner

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To: achilles2000

I know that’s what some folks believe. I remain skeptical.


41 posted on 05/02/2014 9:23:23 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Girlene
Yeah, look at the source and the science of the poll.

Just who are the people rising up, in the thousands, in Eastern Ukraine?

A bunch of folks that want to join up with Berlin?

42 posted on 05/02/2014 9:23:48 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner

Dozens of pro-separatist people were burned to death today in a building hit with molotovs from right-sektor.

The police just watched. They were ready with shields ready to confront... the people being burned alive in the building.

This article just says people died in a fire.

I think this will have a big impact on the psychology of the region, and convince people of the need for self defense groups and separatism.

If dozens of pro-euro protesters were burned to death in the context of an attack by their political opponents and police, the reporting would be far different...


43 posted on 05/02/2014 9:30:51 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: goldstategop; MinuteGal

If Russia makes a move on Ukraine and tries to take it over, they better be prepared for lots of guerilla warfare by the Ukrainians, picking off the Russians one by one or more. The Ukrainians are very good at this as they have been occupied first by the Commies and then by the Fascists, and then by the Commies again. Putin will have his hands full which is why I think he’s been holding back and trying to achieve the same ends by having internal Ukrainian Russians fight his fight for him, with Putin’s aid on the QT of course.

Will be interesting to see what happens, but the Ukraine isn’t going to put up with Putin taking over its last deep water ports, leaving them landlocked. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.


44 posted on 05/02/2014 9:34:30 PM PDT by flaglady47 (Oppressors can tyranize only w/a standing army-enslaved press-disarmed populace)
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To: Mount Athos
"If dozens of pro-euro protesters were burned to death in the context of an attack by their political opponents and police, the reporting would be far different..."

Yep, but they were pro-Russian. No sympathy from the fascists in Kiev.

Odessa has been Russian for well over 200 years and was not even a city until Catherine the Great named it.

AT LEAST 95% of all development that ever occurred there was done with Russian money and Russian workers.

45 posted on 05/02/2014 9:35:19 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: allendale

Going up against the Russian military/intelligence apparatus with Ukraine’s current resources is like David with a broken arm going up against Goliath.

It seems for most new conscripts particularly for the the National Guard, they should train them in guerrilla tactics, create an infrastructure for an underground resistance, and be ready for a partisan insurgency.

I know the East thinks of Bandera as a Nazi, but he was a nationalist ( not socialist ) fighting a partisan war against Stalin’s Soviet Russia. He aligned with Hitler, but if your choice is Hitler or Stalin, who would you pick ( particularly with Stalin wanting to deport ALL Ukrainians and killing mainly through a manufactured starvation about 25% of the population )?


46 posted on 05/02/2014 9:35:27 PM PDT by More Objective than Subjective
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To: flaglady47
"they better be prepared for lots of guerilla warfare by the Ukrainians, picking off the Russians one by one or more"

Fantastic nonsense.

The Russian militias will kill all those folks in the night.

Doll, this is Eastern Europe we're talking about. When this kind of thing erupts, one side wins and the other loses.

47 posted on 05/02/2014 9:39:10 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner
Sounds about right.

blueprint for what will happen in the US southwest and california.

48 posted on 05/02/2014 9:41:19 PM PDT by Eagles6 (Valley Forge Redux. If not now, when? If not here, where?)
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To: Mariner
Yeah, look at the source and the science of the poll.

Really? How about this one? Agence France-Presse: Poll says most in eastern Ukraine region against joining Russia

They don't want to join Russia. Now whether they have the ability to react against Russian troops and their paid insurgents, who knows....but they CAN answer polls.
49 posted on 05/02/2014 9:41:40 PM PDT by Girlene (Hey, NSA!)
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To: More Objective than Subjective
"fighting a partisan war against Stalin’s Soviet Russia"

And killing as many Jews as they could get their hands on. Not because they were aligned with the Soviets, but because they were Jews.

50 posted on 05/02/2014 9:41:50 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Girlene
"A majority of inhabitants in Ukraine's pro-Russian protest hub Donetsk do not want to join Russia but consider the government in Kyiv to be illegitimate, "

So I say it's a good thing that Russia is willing to expend the resources necessary to bring law, order and prosperity to a failed state.

51 posted on 05/02/2014 9:45:03 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner

There’s a really great research paper out from National Defence Academy of Latvia Center for Security and Strategic Research titled ‘RUSSIA’S NEW GENERATION WARFARE IN UKRAINE:
IMPLICATIONS FOR LATVIAN DEFENSE POLICY’( wow, that’s a mouthful...good thing for copy and paste :)

It lays out Russia’s goals for military capability by 2020, and it’s stunning at how Ukraine is a play by play out of Russia’s changing strategy.

Basically, until conditions are right to go in conventionally, they will wage a cultural war, ‘from direct annihilation of the opponent to its inner decay’, ‘from war in the physical environment to a war in the human consciousness and in cyberspace’(can anyone say trolls), using ‘specially prepared forces and commercial irregular groupings’, ‘from the traditional (3D) battleground to information/psychological warfare and war of
perceptions.’

And they see their enemy as permanent; a permanent war.

It’s really fascinating and very ominous.


52 posted on 05/02/2014 9:49:09 PM PDT by More Objective than Subjective
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To: Mariner
The other is that a bunch of Western "Fascists", aided by NATO Security Services overthrew the legitimately elected government and are intent to mortgage Urkranian assets and culture to Berlin.

What evidence do you have of that. What street videos I saw were unorganized and showed a lot of individual commitment and casualties. And I have NO DOUBT that Vlad is stoking the fire with spec ops.

53 posted on 05/02/2014 9:51:07 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!)
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To: Mariner
So I say it's a good thing that Russia is willing to expend the resources necessary to bring law, order and prosperity to a failed state.

lol....So, is that what they're calling invading another country these days?

""A majority of inhabitants in Ukraine's pro-Russian protest hub Donetsk do not want to join Russia "
54 posted on 05/02/2014 9:51:45 PM PDT by Girlene (Hey, NSA!)
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To: More Objective than Subjective
"hey will wage a cultural war, ‘from direct annihilation of the opponent to its inner decay’, ‘from war in the physical environment to a war in the human consciousness and in cyberspace’(can anyone say trolls), using ‘specially prepared forces and commercial irregular groupings’, ‘from the traditional (3D) battleground to information/psychological warfare and war of perceptions.’"

Brilliant.

AND Ominous.

But truth be told they learned it all from us, from the Cold War through to the Serbian-Kosovo war and OUR initial probes into Ukraine.

I'm thinking the Russians are playing defense here.

55 posted on 05/02/2014 9:52:54 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Texas Fossil
"What evidence do you have of that."

Maidan.

56 posted on 05/02/2014 9:54:52 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Girlene
"So, is that what they're calling invading another country these days?"

USA Calls it Nation Building and Democratization.

57 posted on 05/02/2014 9:56:07 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner
I'm thinking the Russians are playing defense here.

Right...that's why they needed 40,50, whatever thousands troops on the Ukranian border (now inside it).

That's "defense".
58 posted on 05/02/2014 9:59:29 PM PDT by Girlene (Hey, NSA!)
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To: Mariner

2 words concerning people in this area and Russian “treatment”.

Katyn and Holodomor

Enough reason for a fierce hatred of Ivan & Vlad?


59 posted on 05/02/2014 9:59:45 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!)
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To: Mariner

Yes, I watched that and I did not see outside organization.

And the “elected” President was hand picked by Vlad and they stole almost the entire treasury on exit.

No, the EU wanted them, but NATO nor the EU was involved in the overthrow of the “elected” President of the Ukraine.

Popular dislike of what he was doing did.

I saw the videos and those videos were NOT the one on MSM.


60 posted on 05/02/2014 10:03:21 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!)
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