Fracking pushes New York towns to consider secession, join Pennsylvania

NEWSDAY ^ | February 22, 2015 | NEWSDAY

[SoothingDave]

Do you mean “permanent?”

[thackney]

Here is some examples, This $30 Billion investment does not include drilling and wells. I’ve spent a couple decades involved in engineering/construction/maintenance/upgrades of facilities that comes after the wells are in place.

Blue Racer: $30B In Infrastructure Needed
http://www.theintelligencer.net/page/content.detail/id/623826.html
January 30, 2015

Not being able to load ethane onto the ATEX Express because the Blue Racer Natrium plant’s connection remains shut down following the pipeline’s Monday explosion is only one of the challenges company officials see in the Marcellus and Utica shale.

“In excess of $30 billion worth of infrastructure still needs to be built,” Scott Williams, executive vice president and chief commercial officer for Blue Racer, said Thursday during the Marcellus-Utica Midstream Conference in Pittsburgh.

Williams said new pipeline infrastructure leading out of Natrium connects to Sunoco’s Mariner West pipeline, which can transport ethane to Ontario, Canada for cracking at the Nova Chemicals Corunna petrochemical facility at Sarnia. In addition to the Natrium plant, Williams said Blue Racer’s infrastructure now includes the Berne complex in Monroe County. The company’s extensive pipeline network features lines traveling as far north as Cleveland....

- - - - -

Ohio getting ethane cracker plant
http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/blog/ohio-energy-inc/2014/08/ohio-getting-ethane-cracker-plant.html

A billion-dollar ethane cracker plant for the oil and gas industry is crossing the Ohio River.

Now, the facility that was initially planned for West Virginia will be built in Monroe County.

Appalachian Resins Inc., a Houston company, has leased 50 acres of land in Salem Township to build a 600 million pound per year plant, the company told Downstream Today.
Such plants are highly sought. West Virginia and Pennsylvania are also eyeing ethane cracker plants that process ethane and other natural gas components from the area’s Utica and Marcellus shale for use in the plastics industry, especially in the Gulf Coast....

[thackney]

By the way, I grew up in the general area (NE Ohio) and moved to Texas for the jobs/opportunity/pay rates that this industry offered. The drilling is only the beginning of the jobs that follow at a more steady and lasting rate.

[thackney]

I seen a bad sign up the road from me. Shell Appalachia reclaimed a frack water retention pond.

Can you help me understand the "bad" in this?

[stremba]

I think you mean Western Nevada. California is still located west of Nevada last time I looked at a map.

[stremba]

Nice idea, but it would require either a Constitutional amendment or approval from the NY state legislature. The Constitution does not allow formation of new states from the territory of existing ones without the approval of the existing state in question.

[WakeUpAndVote]

This was the local frack pond that was to service four wells in the area. These well. were not drilled to the point where the sideways drilling would start about 4,000 feet down. This is a sign that the wells are on hold or about to be mothballed. Fracking of these wells was supposed to start Spring ‘14. Well see what happens when spring comes.

[woodbutcher1963]

Didn’t I read that some STEEL mills reopened in Ohio & PA because of the inexpensive natural gas they need to power the blast furnaces?
Cheap energy beats cheap labor in many manufacturing situations.

People also do not realize there are many different industries that benefit indirectly from drilling and less expensive energy whether it be natural gas, oil or electricity.

We have discussed my involvement with man camp buildings and access mats.
However, last November there was a shortage of Calcium Chloride pellets and flakes used as ice melter. Eventually by January it was available for about 30% more than last winter. This was because calcium chloride is used in drilling/fracking of oil/gas wells. It took that extra couple months for importers to get in shipments from China once there was a determined to be a shortage in the US. The minimal amount of trucks we could find prior to that, well let me say, we made a much higher margin on those.

[thackney]

Thanks, that helps.

I’ve read in several areas about well completions being postponed. I would have expected the drilling to be completed while the rigs were set up, but hydro frac delayed. It seems strange to stop before reaching planned bore depth/length. Rig mobilizations are not cheap; far cheaper to complete while the rig is in place. The hydro frac does not use the drill rig and can come later.

[thackney]

That may have been a while ago. Some have closed since the oil down turn.

http://www.recyclingtoday.com/ohio-steel-vallourec-star.aspx

http://www.ibj.com/articles/51473-arcelormittal-to-lay-off-304-in-steel-plant-closing

[WakeUpAndVote]

That's how I understand it. The vertical well is drilled and capped. Horizontal was not done. Another thing I noticed was the trains that used to come in that carried frack sand has all but stopped. We'll see what happens come Spring. The profit is not there after this drop.

[vette6387]

“Maybe Central California could changed to Eastern Nevada.

Last time I looked, Nevada was EAST of CA, so any additions to NV would necessarily be WESTERN.

[thackney]

The vertical well is drilled and capped. Horizontal was not done.

Interesting. It seems like a wasteful and expensive way to do it, but sometime cash flow takes priority over total costs.

Just drilling the well will not hold the lease. They will need production or penalty payments to do that.

[reed13k]

I personally think any city with a population over 500K should be forced to form their own state - thereby releasing the former states citizens of the tyranny of that city’s population.

Imagine Illinois without Chicago, Cali without LA/SF, etc About 25 cities are over 500k, the leftover state become substantially less liberal; but the country as a whole more conservative.

[stremba]

Again, not a bad idea, but see my post #26.

[stremba]

After more thought, that might not be such a great idea anyway. We would simply be creating more deep blue states. Your idea would likely just result in Democratic control of the Senate for all eternity.

[stremba]

Just looked it up. There were 32 cities (not counting Washington DC) that had over 500,000 people as of the 2010 census. That would mean 32 brand new deep blue states, out of a new total of 82 states. Your proposal would leave states such as Maine, Vermont, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Delaware, Minnesota, Iowa, and Hawaii unchanged. That’s 9 more states that are deep blue, for a total of 41 states, or half of the states. You are going to get at most a handful of GOP Senate seats out of those states. You would have to almost sweep the rest of the states for the GOP to control the Senate. Sure, states like Michigan, Oregon, Illinois, Pennsylvania and New York would become more conservative, but it’s still a very tall order.

[CIB-173RDABN]

You don’t understand I want to get as far as possible so pickup the entire central valley and move it

(color me embarrassed)

Actually Reno Nevada is further west than San Diego California so ...

[reed13k]

I realize they’d be deep blue - but they would free up the other parts of the states - if the number needs to be 1,000,000 I’m ok - then it’s only like 9-10. Maybe 800k for top 12 that would free the rest of Illinois, New York, Michigan, California, Penn. 3 of top 12 are Texas, 4 of top 12 are Cali...though I imagine SD being a conservative leaner and San Jose a toss up maybe, while LA and SF would lean hard left. 3 in Texas might split.