[FReeper Editorial] Is Obama a Christian? A proposed response for conservative candidates...

Between my ears ^ | 9/19/15

[markomalley]

We see this Thursday that Donald Trump joined the ranks of conservative politicians who are under fire...not for what they've said but for what they haven't said. As we all know, Mr. Trump was confronted with a question during his Thursday Town Hall meeting in New Hampshire...a question likely posed by a plant from another campaign (Yeb?). Embedded within that question was an accusation that the current occupant of the White House was a Muslim.

The Trump campaign has largely been silent about the issue since that point in time; however, any number of progressive Republican candidates have been convinced to come to the defense of Obama in an effort to not be tarred with the paintbrush that the media are using on Trump.

It is my understanding that a few of the campaigns may have some people who look at Free Republic from time to time. The following is a suggestion on how to get the real point across:

You ask me whether I believe that Obama is a Muslim. I find it hilarious that you ask me that question, as this was a meme started by the Hillary Clinton campaign back in 2008. Other than the occasional gaffe, such as his faux pas ("my Muslim faith") during an interview with George Stephanopoulos in that same campaign cycle, he has maintained that he is a Christian. A person's religious faith is a very personal matter and whether a candidate claims to be one faith or another shouldn't really be challenged.

One thing that is, on the other hand, fair game is to evaluate how "his Christian faith" has impacted his public policy making. A famous Democrat President once said:

Whatever issue may come before me as president — on birth control, divorce, censorship, gambling or any other subject — I will make my decision in accordance with these views, in accordance with what my conscience tells me to be the national interest, and without regard to outside religious pressures or dictates.

I would submit that this is only partially correct: one's faith informs one's conscience. While it is true that on purely ecclesiastical issues, it is entirely appropriate to separate one's faith from policy decisions, on matters of morals that cannot be the case. The Faith that one has internalized, whatever that faith is, informs one's values. One's values informs the decisions that are made, be those decisions personal or policy in nature. If a politician's values dictate that premeditated murder is wrong, there is no way that this politician could vote for or sign into law a bill that authorizes cold blooded murder, regardless of how popular this would be in society. This same famous Democrat President also said:

But if the time should ever come — and I do not concede any conflict to be even remotely possible — when my office would require me to either violate my conscience or violate the national interest, then I would resign the office; and I hope any conscientious public servant would do the same.

---

There is a somewhat popular saying that goes like this: "If you were accused of being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?" I believe that this saying originates from a passage in the Gospel of Matthew where Jesus says:

[15] Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

[16] By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

[17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

[18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit.

[19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire.

[20] Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.

[21] Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.

[22] Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?

[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

So since we can "know them by their fruits", what kind of fruits have been produced by Mr. Obama? Here is just a small sample:

In the area of morality:

• He has consistently advocated for abortion and, yes, even infanticide (reference his votes on "Born Alive Infant Protection Act")
• He has consistently persecuted Christian individuals, Christian-owned businesses, and Christian Religious societies to force compliance with his perverted views (reference Little Sisters of the Poor; reference Hobby Lobby; etc)
• He has consistently advocated for not just the acceptance of sodomy in society, but for the forceful indoctrination of these values. He has gone so far as to pressure foreign governments to adjust their national policies on the subject, contrary to the will of their peoples.

On the subject of Race Relations:

• He has incited people to riot; he has transformed the Department of Justice into the Department of "Just-Us" with their techniques of selective prosecution or persecution.
• Please, somebody, point out to me where he has gotten involved and truly emotional in the area of black-on-black crime. Hispanic-on-hispanic crime. Black-on-white crime. Hispanic-on-white crime. Black-on-hispanic crime or hispanic-on-black crime. He only seems to get deeply involved in one situation.

(Candidate who is reading this: you can and should continue this list for yourself: you can talk about the overseas issues such as revolutions he's supported vs revolutions he's opposed or ignored; Christian persecution as a result of those revolutions, and so on. You can talk about his leftist "cultural imperialism". You can continue this list for as long as you desire)

There are, admittedly, groups of Christians who believe that social issues are more important than moral issues. Let's take a look at Obama's fruit in regards to this:

• Income inequality. There are some who believe that income inequality is an important measure ("the rich get richer and the poor get poorer"). At the end of 2008, the year Obama was first elected, the top fifth of the country's population held 47.8% of the country's wealth. At the end of 2014, that amount has grown to 48.9% of the country's wealth. In 2008, the lowest fifth of the population held 4.0% of the country's wealth; by 2014, that amount has shrunk to 3.6%.
• Poverty. In 2008, the year Obama took office, 13.2% of the people in this country had incomes at or below the poverty line. In 2014, that number has grown to 14.7%.
• Employment. In 2008, there were 79.5 million people not in the workforce. In 2014, that number has grown to 92 million.

• Government Assistance. In 2008, there were 28 million people who used SNAP ("food stamps"). By 2014, that number has grown to 46.5 million.
• And I could go on and on and on: the point is that there is not one good measure out there, even from a "social justice" point of view.

Those are just a small example of the fruits of Obama.

---

So is Mr. Obama a Christian? He says that he is and it is not my place, nor is it the place of any of my supporters to question his assertion. That is, in the end, something between him and his God.

Is he a Christian in practice? Well, you can judge his fruits for yourself...I've listed just a tiny sampling of them above. Mr. Obama has accused himself of being a Christian. Is there enough evidence to convict him? You can judge for yourself.

One thing is for certain: he, like all of us, will some day stand before the judgment seat of Christ. And then all will be revealed one way or the other.

Question for my fellow FReepers: if a candidate was to respond as above, how would you react?

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

The Community Organizer from Chicago has made enough misstatements that one can call him a liar without losing credibility. Being a known liar creates a further problem; i.e. when do we know he is telling the truth?

[lp boonie]

Bump for later

[don-o]

Read later.

[cripplecreek]

He’s a radical marxist with obvious anti Judaeo-Christian sentiments.

[Carl Vehse]

Unless one is shown to be a board-certified telepath, one cannot see into the heart of a person regarding his faith. What one can do is look at the person's words and actions and see if they are consistent with the Christian faith.

A list of Obama's words and actions has been previously posted by Slyfox on Freerepublic. Obama's words and actions are inconsistent with the Christian faith.

[Buttons12]

Proper answer:
“Dial 202-555-1212.”

[glenduh]

It is an excellent, thoughtful response. Unfortunately, in today’s world candidates have to communicate in short sound bites and character limit tweets to reach the masses.

[betty boop]

Question for my fellow FReepers: if a candidate was to respond as above, how would you react?

Very positively.

Certainly I take a very dim view of Gov. Christie's recent remark — evidently intended to disparage The Donald — that Obama's Christianity (or self-identification as a Christian) is "self-evident." ("Nothing to see here, so just move along....")

There is nothing "self-evident" about it at all. Indeed, it seems all the evidence points to the reasonable supposition that he is not.

Plus from his "fruits" (deeds) we find evidence that he is highly sympathetic to the Islamic faith and its causes, and actively defends its claims worldwide; and if he has to sacrifice the national interest in so doing, so be it: "If you want to make an omelette, you've got to break some eggs."

Ergo, to me it seems more likely that Obama is a Muslim than he is a Christian — if we are to judge him by his "fruits."

Excellent article, markomally! Thank you ever so much for posting it.

[IronJack]

The response? “Why ask me?”

[Arthur McGowan]

If a candidate gave that response, I would quit reading after fifteen seconds, just the way I did here.

[Arthur McGowan]

Donald should say: If Obama likes his religion, he can keep his religion.

[Scrambler Bob]

one cannot see into the heart of a person regarding his faith. ==

When Christ indwells a person, that person IS changed by the power of God, and not by his own efforts.

I would have expected to see SOME change toward the image of Christ.

Maybe I’m not looking in the right place, or ????

[Lorianne]

It is not anyone’s responsibility to confirm the religious beliefs (or lack thereof) of a 3rd party. It is an illogical request. You can only confirm your own beliefs.

ILLOGICAL QUESTIONS SHOULD BE IGNORED.

This is also worrying in a Stasi sense ... people being coerced to denounce others to save their own skins. Very dangerous path to be going down.

Since you cannot know the true beliefs of someone other than yourself, you would also be bearing false witness to proclaim the beliefs of another as fact.

[captain_dave]

A name is the most personal of things we have. If he truly in his heart is a Christian he would not call himself with a moslem name. He has had other names before, like “Barry Soetero”, he chose “Barak Hussain Obama” - a very moslem name. I believe he’s a moslem because I believe he believes he’s a moslem.

[Carl Vehse]

Scrambler Bob @13: "I would have expected to see SOME change toward the image of Christ."

Certainly. But one can only view the faith in one's own heart, not the faith in another person's heart. Words and actions of others are all that we can hear and see.

So rather than saying, "Obama is not a Christian," one should simply state, "Obama words and actions are repeatedly inconsistent with those of a Christian."

[xzins]

I agree, Betty. This is a good response by Markomalley, and I would use it.

My quick snappy response would be: “He’s a tare.”

[mulligan]

Obama’s words and actions move in opposite directions. His words claims he is but his actions are devilish.

[caww]

(((.....”one should simply state, “Obama words and actions are repeatedly inconsistent with those of a Christian.” ....))))

That would be my response as well....He “evidences” contrary to that of a Christian therefore he would be “something else”.....His actions do indicate ‘favorably’ to the Islamic faith from what I have seen and heard. When a sitting Pres. of this nation, under the God of the Bible, says that we are no longer a Christian nation....that does send a message................

.....further stating that.... "I will stand with Muslims if the political winds shift in an ugly direction"..... does not lend one to the oath he took to this nation to uphold the Constitution....which he surely has trampled on.....

[Swede Girl]

I agree. He is not a Christian. The only religion he was exposed to while growing up was the Muslim religion. It is ingrained in him.

His background from conception on was so out of the norm and murky that he was able to eventually spin it into a fairytale.

He chose this name. He chose his friends. He chose his direction. All the while, he knew that this unlikely and unusual name would get him the attention he needed to help to propel him forward by following the path painted by the puppet masters who worked behind the scenes.

Even Michelle and his daughters were and are planned props. He went to her church because it gave him early exposure in the community that would give him notoriety. All planned, orchestrated and plotted out.

Add to this the safe cloak of the false claim of Christianity and he was easily able to sell himself to the voters on the left side of the Bell Curve who are always willing to trust a snake oil salesman who promotes class envy and promises free stuff.