Posted on 11/02/2015 10:46:56 AM PST by fishtank
Pre-Flood Human Fossils Revisited
by Brian Thomas, M.S. *
Evidence for Creation
Where are the fossils from the people who lived before the Flood? A 1992 ICR article supplied seven responses to this question.1
Land animals and humans have a low fossilization potential. We would expect few fossils from them. If the Flood buried a multitude of people and distributed their bodies among the world’s sedimentary rocks, finding even one human fossil in such a vast area would be unlikely. Underwater mudflows during the Flood would have ground human bones to powder. Floodwaters receding off continents might have likewise pulverized them. Catastrophic geological processes may have buried ancient continents in their entirety, virtually erasing all evidence of people. Whoever discovers a pre-Flood human bone or bone fragment might not identify it as such, since that finding would not fit evolutionary expectations. The pre-Flood population might have been quite small, considering Genesis 6:13’s statement that “the earth was filled with violence.â€
Does any new evidence help to update these responses?
(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...
sorry ...fantasy
can any Creationist please explain the vast plethora of dinosaur and pre-dino fossils that have occurred , going back over 300 million years ?
There was a lot that earlier men did not know and could not grasp . God is not about a religion(s) God is so much more vast than that .
There's your problem, right there...
Perhaps Homo Floresis (?) aka Hobbit Man rom Flores Island Indonesia dated back some 18K years. Methinks that is pre-flood. The Denovsian (?) rom Siberia date back what, 40K years. True, no whole skeletons have been found of pre-flood man, but enough has been found to say that man has been around a long, long time. Is it possible that man was around hundreds of millions of years? According to the Vedas (India) we have been. Who knows?
Not a reasonable position - The fact of remains of land animals having been found, many smaller than humans, denies the point - We should expect human remains in the natural course of things... And they are found. However, along with that, one must consider that humans would be more adept at battling the flood - having a superior ability to get to higher ground, make rafts and boats, cling to flotsam, and etc... While certainly not perfectly true, one might suggest that many human deaths came from perishing long after other animals by way of starvation, or drowning when their 'craft' became waterlogged, succumbing to currents or mega-waves, and etc... What that does to the placement of their remains, later in the flood, is beyond my ability to fully consider.
If the Flood buried a multitude of people and distributed their bodies among the world’s sedimentary rocks, finding even one human fossil in such a vast area would be unlikely.
Again, a poor position. That other remains have been found supposes the very same for humans.
Underwater mudflows during the Flood would have ground human bones to powder.
Again, a poor position. That other remains have been found supposes the very same for humans.
Floodwaters receding off continents might have likewise pulverized them.
Again, a poor position. That other remains have been found supposes the very same for humans.
Catastrophic geological processes may have buried ancient continents in their entirety, virtually erasing all evidence of people.
It is more likely that the flood preserved cities - Human habitation tends to follow sea coasts and rivers - low lands... as the flood waters rose, such places would be quickly inundated, and barring initial flood damages, would tend to be below the raging currents that would eventually occur once the waters rose to a point where the waters were made free to gain speed and power. If the oceans are higher today than they were in times before the flood, then preserved cities will be found beneath the waves - And they are.
Whoever discovers a pre-Flood human bone or bone fragment might not identify it as such, since that finding would not fit evolutionary expectations.
Very true.
“Where are the fossils from the people who lived before the Flood?”
Which of the many Floods do you want to talk about? There have been innumerable great floods.
Human fossils dating from before 12,000 years ago are rare, because the Human population was very small in comparison to the population of animal fossils typically found, and very few of the Human corpses survived long enough to become fossilized under the special conditions require for fossilization.
The question is irrational and nonsensical given the physical realities.
geology and the fossil record do not , can not , lie ....it is solid forensic evidence .
I firmly believe in the Creator God , I just think the puny and limited knowledge level mankind got the time line wrong . Since everything in our experience and consciousness is so limited , we seem to try and impose those limits and definitions upon God and His creation . To the point of unintelligently rejecting ever peg that does not fit into the forms we create .
I was asking a pastor friend recently how do explain dinosaur fossils , which carbon date and also exist in geological structures that can be dated ? he told me of a few references to ‘ Leviathon ‘ . Sorry , not all dinos were big , some were minute and the variety of fossil record we have now found is immense , not some single species. Let’s be frank , the ancient Jews just did not know , they could not know , they didn’t have the information . Not to fault them in any way ; they made things up to explain the unexplainable .
God is far far more vast , complex , intricate , and ancient , than anything we can come close to defining via the human mind . Imagine earthworms trying to figure out and define the Himalayas ....
The article has much content, and your very brief comments do not address that extra information.
In all truth, my first impression of the article, was that it was a bit weak.
However, when I got to the last paragraph, where he asked:
“Where Are Evolution’s Fossils?
Dr. John Morris wrote in 1992:
If evolution is true, and humans have lived on Earth for three million years, many trillions have lived and died. Where are their fossils? This is the more vexing question.1
What have we learned since then? That not only are evolution’s human fossils still missing, but so is any other trace of their existence. Countless human bones should fill caves, crevices, and graveyards. Their ancient firepits and trash heaps should be found around every corner. Scientists have described a few extinct ape fossils and evidence of unfamiliar-looking humans, but their continued failure to find the human fossils expected from millions of years of evolution only intensifies this “more vexing question.””
THAT paragraph brought up a pregnant question, and I wonder if there is a valid answer to the question.
True enough - But the lie may very well be in the interpretation of that evidence.
I firmly believe in the Creator God , I just think the puny and limited knowledge level mankind got the time line wrong .
Or, in our hubris, modern man, with our equally puny and limited knowledge, got the timeline wrong.
Since everything in our experience and consciousness is so limited , we seem to try and impose those limits and definitions upon God and His creation .
Exactly true, but not in the way you seem to suppose.
To the point of unintelligently rejecting ever peg that does not fit into the forms we create .
But that is done all the time in modern archaeology - That which does not conform to the current paradigm is consistently ignored. The proof is in the errata, not the theory.
I was asking a pastor friend recently how do explain dinosaur fossils , which carbon date and also exist in geological structures that can be dated ? he told me of a few references to ‘ Leviathon ‘ . Sorry , not all dinos were big , some were minute and the variety of fossil record we have now found is immense , not some single species. Let’s be frank , the ancient Jews just did not know , they could not know , they didn’t have the information . Not to fault them in any way ; they made things up to explain the unexplainable .
Who is to say they are being dated accurately? The problem with your premise is that one can no longer trust the Bible, relying instead upon the works of men. For instance, the Bible says explicitly that death did not enter into the Creation until the fall of Man. Your scenario necessarily refutes that explicit declaration, with death (and decay) being natural. Which then, is true?
God is far far more vast , complex , intricate , and ancient , than anything we can come close to defining via the human mind . Imagine earthworms trying to figure out and define the Himalayas ....
Then why not believe Him?
What have we learned since then? That not only are evolution’s human fossils still missing, but so is any other trace of their existence.
Not exactly true - I would encourage you to investigate OOPARTS - Out Of Place Artifacts - S8int.com is probably the largest collection I know of, and it is HUGE. You can easily spend months there. 'Modern' man, or his artifacts are everywhere... Beautifully wrought silver, tools and even remains found in coal beds, necklaces and coins coming out of well-shafts 150+ ft deep... human footprints with dinosaur prints... It goes on and on.
But they don't want 'modern man' to be that old in 'the column', because it goes against the evolutionary paradigm - So you never hear of such finds. They are literally swept aside, and instead, falsified monkey bones are used to fashion this 'proof of evolution'. Yet modern, intelligent man is found deep, deep in the strata.
And, in a young earth, with a catastrophic flood, one would expect 'modern' man to go way back to it's beginnings (and he does)... Which means that what we are arguing over is the time-frame involved (less the neeeeeed for evolution).
I would assert there is much that brings that timeline into question.
I believe that man has been around for much, much longer than we realize.
I think that the Adam/Eve era is just the last iteration.
There is a creator. He/She is very, very, very old.
while disagreeing with the position of the non-creationists, your argument has holes in it — the population of humans was historically small — at the time of Christ it was 100 million and before the invention of agriculture it was probably close to 1 million or less. Very few buried bones become fossils and our ancestors were not only burying, but also burning (cremation) or exposing to animals (Zoroastrianism), so the % is more like 0.0001% or something (I’m not sure of this, but suffice to say that it is a miniscule fraction of a percent of bones that get fossilised and are not destroyed by earth movements through the centuries
I wonder about the ‘very old’ — that is us anthropomorphizing. God exists outside time and space — and time is related to space and gravity. So the concept of old or young has no meaning when applied to God.
Darn...I knew someone would call me on that.
I have to come up with another argument now.
wasn’t really “calling you” about this — just that I believe we as humans keep thinking of God in the only way we can — by anthropomorphizing
No worries.
It struck me about a minute after posting it.
I’m from Missouri ....waiting to hear from Him directly .
And yes , I have come to distrust the spin of mankind .
Geology and paleontology are what they are , forensic evidence , tangibles . Nothing made up or extrapolated .
I have ‘studied’ religions and spirituality for many many years . Attended church , been baptized and pray daily , and after all of that , I hold this more pragmatic approach , rather than pure faith on unsubstantiated theology and the writings of the ancients alone . If a man of the Abrahamic times came upon a fossil embedded in a rock face , what would he have made of it ? can a mouse define the Himalayas ? It can assume they are BIG , but it has no idea how big ....what does the mouse tell other mice ? The mountains are BIG!.... but there is more involved . Much more .
Ahh, the 'Show me' State - You and I would get along I think...
And yes , I have come to distrust the spin of mankind . Geology and paleontology are what they are , forensic evidence , tangibles . Nothing made up or extrapolated .
Plenty made up, and more than plenty extrapolated... As I said up thread, look to the error and not to the theory - For instance, flesh found (now repeatedly) in the bones of dinosaurs absolutely discounts 'millions of years' - The proteins found therein cannot last in any condition beyond 100,000 years (if that long). That single evidence blows a huge hole in the established timeline. Yet the textbooks still all say 'millions of years'. As in all things, it takes much to change the party line.
I have 'studied' religions and spirituality for many many years .
Me too, with a penchant also toward anthropology - I am not quick to discount the legends and lore of indigenous peoples. Important things are passed down in such ways, what a grandfather teaches his sons, and I think that all of it will eventually knit into a single fabric.It is significant to me that the Great Flood is well noted in virtually all mythology, with surprising detail.
Attended church , been baptized and pray daily , and after all of that , I hold this more pragmatic approach [...]
I am not run-of-the-mill myself, either - I most closely fit as a Christian Messianic (kinda half way between Christianity and Judaism) because I too am not impressed by unsubstantiated theories in theology.
[...] rather than pure faith on [...] the writings of the ancients alone .
Here I will differ with you strenuously. The Bible, and especially Torah, can easily be proven to have come from beyond space and time. Not only by prophecies (which rightly ought to be proof enough), but also by inbuilt encryption, which not only prove the veracity of the text, but also is of such an elegant design as to be far beyond the reach of Man to accomplish - Impossible, yet true. And I have found *nothing* in the works of Man to compare - Nothing at all. In that, my faith is girded by proof. One must have a rod to measure with in this world and I will bank upon the one that comes from beyond space and time.
But such a declaration is of little use, I know, without laying out the proof - And that is something best reserved for buckets of sweet tea and many, many hours on the back porch. And that I fear, is not an option available to us here and now.
If a man of the Abrahamic times came upon a fossil embedded in a rock face , what would he have made of it ? can a mouse define the Himalayas ? It can assume they are BIG , but it has no idea how big ....what does the mouse tell other mice ? The mountains are BIG!.... but there is more involved . Much more .
True enough, I suppose, but even still true in the main, I will submit. I give ancient man more credit than others, and modern men less.
Homo-sapiens sapiens - Wise Man
Romans 1:22 (KJV) 'Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,'
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