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ATF Explains Bump Fire Stock Approval, Wonít Say if Itís Reconsidering Legality of Device
Washington Free Beacon ^ | 10/7/17 | Stephen Gutowski

Posted on 10/07/2017 4:02:10 AM PDT by markomalley

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) clarified its role in determining bump fire stocks' classification and legality on Friday but wouldn't say whether it planned to revisit the issue.

"ATF does not approve items that are submitted for classification," Mary Markos, an ATF public affairs specialist, told the Washington Free Beacon. "ATF provides guidance to the industry and evaluates and classifies items submitted as either being a firearm, an NFA [National Firearms Act] firearm, or not subject to the jurisdiction of ATF."

Markos said the classification process at the ATF is initiated when a company voluntarily requests guidance from the agency as to what laws their products may be subject to. From there the ATF examines the product and responds to the company with what laws it has determined the product will be subject to. Depending on that classification the product can be subject to a wide range of laws, including no regulation from ATF at all or a full ban on new sales to civilians.

"ATF makes classifications based on the most current laws and regulations at the time of submission and on the results of a physical examination of that specific item," Markos said. "After ATF makes a classification, then the applicable laws and regulations related to the GCA [Gun Control Act] and NFA, if any, apply to the item. Classifications are memorialized via a letter from ATF, which is provided to the requesting individual or entity. These letters are not made public by ATF due to individuals' and/or entities' privacy rights and/or proprietary rights. Classifications are particular to the item submitted for evaluation and do not apply to like items manufactured by a different entity."

In 2010, the Slide Fire company requested the ATF review their bump fire stock. The stock is designed to make the bump fire technique, which helps a shooter pull the trigger on a semi-automatic firearm at a faster rate than with traditional shooting techniques, easier to achieve. The agency determined that the company's stock was only a firearm part and not subject to regulation under the Gun Control Act of 1968 or the National Firearms Act of 1934.

"The stock has no automatically functioning mechanical parts or springs and performs no automatic mechanical function when installed," the ATF's letter stated. "In order to use the installed device, the shooter must apply constant forward pressure with the non-shooting hand and constant rearward pressure with the shooting hand. Accordingly, we find that the ‘bump-stock' is a firearm part and is not regulated as a firearm under the Gun Control Act or the National Firearms Act."

The agency said the classification process is separate from the lawmaking process and only serves to interpret and provide guidance on current law.

"ATF does not approve items that are submitted for classification," Markos said. "ATF provides guidance to the industry and evaluates and classifies items submitted as either being a firearm, an NFA firearm, or not subject to the jurisdiction of ATF. Amendments to existing law or the introduction of new laws can have an impact on a previously submitted item that may cause an item’s classification to change. This later change in classification ensures consistency with the most current law. Additionally, if an item previously classified by ATF is changed or altered, this too can result in the item's classification to change."

Bump fire stocks have come under scrutiny after it was reported the devices were found on some of the firearms used by the Las Vegas shooter. Politicians from both sides of the aisle have called for the devices to be banned. The National Rifle Association, America's largest gun rights organization, has called on the ATF to review its classification of the devices.

"In Las Vegas, reports indicate that certain devices were used to modify the firearms involved. Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE) to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law," Wayne LaPierre and Chris Cox, the group's top leadership, said in a statement. "The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations."

The ATF has reversed themselves in the past on the classification of similar devices designed to help a shooter achieve a higher rate of fire while using a semi-automatic firearm. The agency first advised the makers of the Akins Accelerator that their device was not subject to machine gun regulations but later reversed themselves and determined the device was subject to those regulations.

The ATF did not respond to questions on whether the agency would similarly reconsider its classification of bump fire stocks, however.



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government
KEYWORDS: 115th; atf; banglist; batf; third100days
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1 posted on 10/07/2017 4:02:10 AM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley

Lol...just follow the money.


2 posted on 10/07/2017 4:16:45 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Communists...Socialists...Fascists & AntiFa...Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: markomalley
""The stock has no automatically functioning mechanical parts or springs and performs no automatic mechanical function when installed," the ATF's letter stated. "In order to use the installed device, the shooter must apply constant forward pressure with the non-shooting hand and constant rearward pressure with the shooting hand. Accordingly, we find that the ‘bump-stock' is a firearm part and is not regulated as a firearm under the Gun Control Act or the National Firearms Act.""

This is an example of the tunnel vision of the government bureaucrat.

The bump fire stock facilitates the use of the weapon in a rate of fire normally achievable only with a fully automatic weapon. That's why my opinion has always been that it ought to be considered a fully automatic weapon WHEN ATTACHED TO A RECEIVER.

Like it or not, for better or for worse.

Keep in mind this ruling was made during 0's administration, and think "Fast and Furious".

[Flame suit on.]

3 posted on 10/07/2017 4:22:29 AM PDT by OKSooner (A truth that's told with bad intent, Beats all the lies you can invent. - William Blake)
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To: OKSooner
Accordingly, we find that the ‘bump-stock' is a firearm part and is not regulated as a firearm under the Gun Control Act or the National Firearms Act.

So maybe what this says is that the only chance anyone has of making Bump Fire Stocks illegal to own would be to declare it a toy and then, condemn it for being unsafe for children...

4 posted on 10/07/2017 4:38:45 AM PDT by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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To: markomalley

“Now, would it have made a difference if everyone at that concert had been armed? Fact: none whatsoever. That’s one of the reasons why it was chosen as a target. Fact: that group of God and Country lovin’ conservatives were fish in a barrel, twenty thousand plus strong in number, shoulder to shoulder in an open-air venue. Conjecture: they were collateral damage on the Globalist’s altar. Purpose: cause enough outrage at our vulnerability to cause/force a knee-jerk reaction - we’ve gotta do something!

For those of us that have been on the giving or receiving end of gunfire (and depending on our travels), another thing emerges from the available videos - the acoustic signature of not ONE, but seemingly THREE different caliber weapons and very nearly simultaneously! I anxiously await the surgeons and ME’s findings after their having dug slugs out of the living and the dead, but I think we’re going to find three different calibers- 5.56, 7.62 X 51 and 7.62 X 39. A couple of my associates are of the same opinion. I would like to say - the truth will out...but given how things have progressed (or sadly, have not); I’m gonna hafta go with BOHICA. In the advancement of sinister agendas; Truth is the first casualty.

Yes, a number of weapons were photographed in this dead Hillary lovers suite on the 32nd floor, but that doesn’t explain the muzzle flashes and synchronized reports coming from the 4th floor which were videotaped by a cabbie who was directly in front of the hotel, by several concert goers at the venue, and which were also reported by police.”

Oathkeeprs article excerpt


5 posted on 10/07/2017 4:40:00 AM PDT by Neoliberalnot (Marxism works well only with the uneducated and the unarmed)
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To: OKSooner
Bump fire with only using finger no slide fire stock.

The statement is correct it doesn't convert a semi-automatic to a fully automatic. All the bump stock does is increase the rate of fire using physics. Talk of restricting them is laughable because you can replicate the function of it by using your finger like the guy in the link above.
6 posted on 10/07/2017 4:48:42 AM PDT by mrmeyer (You can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him. Robert Heinlein)
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To: Neoliberalnot; Travis McGee; Noumenon

I’m not enough of an expert to have a reliable opinion on what to me is the most important question about the technical side of the event.

Could one shooter, armed as he was with multiple weapons, but using only one at a time, from his range and elevation, achieve 600 or so hits on human-sized targets in the time allotted, and how many misses would be expected to achieve that many hits?

Accounts of combat with full-auto .556 and especially 7.62x51 have frequently emphasized the difficulty of accurate aim and muzzle control.

If all that was involved was spray and pray, it does seem like an awful lot of hits at that range.

It’s hard for me to believe that the answer is “yes”, but I would love to hear from many of the real experts we have here.


7 posted on 10/07/2017 4:48:49 AM PDT by Jim Noble (Single payer is coming. Which kind do you like?)
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To: Caipirabob

Not money... CYA is the motive for this ststement.


8 posted on 10/07/2017 4:57:26 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine (White is the new Black.)
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To: Dixie Yooper

You’re a funny guy.


9 posted on 10/07/2017 5:02:17 AM PDT by OKSooner (A truth that's told with bad intent, Beats all the lies you can invent. - William Blake)
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To: mrmeyer
Talk of restricting them is laughable because you can replicate the function of it by using your finger like the guy in the link above.

Over the years, I have witnessed a few handgunners whose shooting technique caused a particular handgun/ammunition combination to "Maxim." I had a nodding acquaintance with a man who owned a match-grade, semi-automatic pistol with which he had to be very deliberate in order to prevent firing a couple of rounds with "one" pull of the trigger, though there was nothing wrong with the firearm that was apparent to the eye. He asked a few of us to try and duplicate the problem, and none of us could get the gun to act up (IIRC, it only happened to him if there were a certain number of rounds in the magazine). Of course, off the pistol went to the manufacturer, and as far as I know, it worked fine for him afterward... I suspect that there wasn't ever anything wrong with it at all, other than that he and the pistol were a bad combination because of some (not so) simple physics.

Mr. niteowl77

10 posted on 10/07/2017 5:38:22 AM PDT by niteowl77
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To: markomalley

Some other ‘expert’ elsewhere claimed that using the belt off your pants could achieve the same effect as these devises. If true, then what (other than a creeping liberal anti-gun victory) does banning them do?


11 posted on 10/07/2017 5:39:40 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: mrmeyer

Which is why supporting a ban will result in a ban on all semi autos.

Anyone who does not see this is a fool. Including the NRA.


12 posted on 10/07/2017 5:45:44 AM PDT by JamesP81 (The DNC poses a greater threat to my liberty than terrorists, China, and Russia. Combined.)
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To: Jim Noble

When you have a large field full of 21,000 people all packed in close together, it is more than entirely possible to do so. 7.62x51 (for example) has been known to pass through multiple people at the 400 yard range unless it encounters an anatomical structure that disrupts its flight. 5.56x45 can do it too, but it’s less common as the projectile tends to be a bit easier to upset.


13 posted on 10/07/2017 5:46:47 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: markomalley

“The National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. 5845(b) defines “machine gun” to include any combination of
parts designed and intended for use in converting a weapon to shoot automatically more than one shot,
without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.”

Note the words “single function of the trigger”.

The bump stock facilitates rapid multiple funtions of the trigger so by the NFA definition does not make a firearm into a machine gun.


14 posted on 10/07/2017 5:52:12 AM PDT by Okieshooter
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To: markomalley

The NRA’s strategy of punting the bump stock issue to ATF has obviously failed. Now the NRA finds themselves in a position of having conceded to congress that gun control is ok and for nothing.

They’ve opened the door to a full semi auto ban in the near future. I have never witnessed a greater strategic political failure in my entire life.


15 posted on 10/07/2017 5:58:38 AM PDT by JamesP81 (The DNC poses a greater threat to my liberty than terrorists, China, and Russia. Combined.)
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To: mrmeyer
" All the bump stock does is increase the rate of fire using physics. "

Yes, exactly, and thank you for seeing my point. Just like every other fully automatic weapon that's ever been made or imagined since John Moses Browning increases the rate of fire using physics. That's the point of it, isn't it?

"Talk of restricting them is laughable because you can replicate the function of it by using your finger like the guy in the link above. "

That argument undermines itself. You first concede that the bump stock is a mechanism that increases the rate of fire "using physics", then you assert that a semiauto weapon can "replicate" that same accelerated rate of fire if the person operating it just uses their finger the right way.

So we've gone from what, let's say a fully automatic M16, to an AR15 equipped with a bump stock doing close to the same rate of fire "using physics", to some guileless dude in a "look at me!" video demonstrating that he can whup that trigger at about the same rate of fire, and they're really all the same thing. (That guy was a drummer when he was in the band and he had a really excellent single-stroke roll.) Never mind that he can't hit anything doing that.

"The other side" will to use this kind of reasoning against us, all under the rubric of existing law. They'll say that really they're all the same thing, a case that you just built for them, and they'll go for a ban on all semiauto firearms.

Now if you'd rather talk about the wisdom of the NFA of 1934 in general, or the 1968 law for that matter, that's fine with me.

16 posted on 10/07/2017 5:58:48 AM PDT by OKSooner
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To: Jim Noble
Not trying to steal your thread but I had some questions about the numbers after the attack also.

It seems to me that you would expect more than 58 dead with a total of better than 525 "wounded". The number of deaths compared to the number of wounded doesn't sound right compared to other shootings.

I suspect that the media is counting any injury among the audience as "wounded".

They sure are dragging their feet releasing information on this one.

17 posted on 10/07/2017 6:10:12 AM PDT by skimbell
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To: JamesP81
That's not how I see it.

It looks to me as though the NRA has just got the ATF to sign off on the stock again.

Not even democrats are talking about semi auto bans.

The ATF is not congress. The NRA just dulled the lefts gun grab with this.

Here's a link to how CNN is realizing what just happened...

CNN NRA action

18 posted on 10/07/2017 6:26:38 AM PDT by skimbell
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To: markomalley

You don’t need to have this attachment to speed trigger action. A simple belt loop can do the same thing. This is just a catch phrase that the idiot media and Democrats have latched on to beat up the NRA. It was Obama’s ATF that approved the bump stock, and Republicans ought to repeat that every time it’s brought up.


19 posted on 10/07/2017 6:29:12 AM PDT by txrefugee
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To: Jim Noble

Full auto fire from a hand held weapon is notoriously inaccurate. But, this guy had apparently mounted these weapons on tripods, which would make them far more effective, particularly against an area target like a mass of concert attendees.


20 posted on 10/07/2017 6:32:10 AM PDT by Bruce Campbells Chin
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