A monument to SC’s black Confederate soldiers? None fought for the South, experts say

The State ^ | 12/30/18 | Jeff Wilkinson

[Carry me back]

But big govt tyranny started in earnest with Lincoln.He cleared the path for the rest.

[wardaddy]

Exactly what neoyankee south bashers like the OP of this thread hope for

As Cleburne famously said before Franklin whilst surveying the lay of the forthcoming battle from atop Breezy Hill with his brigade general officers Govan Granberry and Lowery.....going on memory I think Cleburne and Granberry fell that afternoon at dusk...

Cleburne said ...basically if lose today we lose everything including how we are described by the future

But note his contemporaries in the north respected he and his valor

It took 150 years till a generation of utter pussies who likely have never busted insomuch as a grape have taken him down simply to puff how noble they are about blacks

Blacks Cleburne offered to emancipate early on i might add

These same folks are onto Washington and Jefferson and Jackson and even Lincoln now

Not like wee didn’t try to warn them

I’m within LAPUA 338 magnum range of where Cleburne fell

[Bull Snipe]

This is true. Forest told several of his black servants that if they would go with him, he would free them when the war ended.
The question is, did these men serve as soldiers in his cavalry unit or attend to him personally. that is, take care of his camp, tend to his horses, run messages for him.
That is a fact that is, un-proven, to this day, at least to my satisfaction.

[Carry me back]

Agree. They were part of the Army.

[wardaddy]

It's funny liberal Jews try to run from Judah P

He ain't hardly the only one

The South Carolina state constitution was the first govt doc of such stature to specify Jewish religious freedom by name

Also the plantation belt of Mississippi and Alabama and Louisiana had many temples due to mostly Sephardic Jews many of whom owned same plantations as Methodist or Episcopalians

These synagogues are often surfvivimg but unattended given the post bellum diaspora of Jews from the south

There is a book

[DiogenesLamp]

Don't know how credible this is, but i've seen others of a similar sort. Some of it looks like it came from real sources.

A Tribute To Our Black Confederate Heroes

It is entertaining anyways.

[DiogenesLamp]

please don’t disabuse people of their fantasies; we must be kind...

I disagree. We've had enough war on reality, it's time reality slapped back. Lincoln created the Federal Monster that plagues us today.

[DoodleDawg]

You and the rest of your south bashers can’t stomach the truths you don’t like

"Truth" and "Lost Causers" don't often meet up.

[wardaddy]

My great and great great father did

Great uncle killed at lookout mountain on horseback....odd huh

My wife’s gg uncle brig gen Barksdale killed Gettysburg

Another gg grandfather serve Boylston cavalry Miss as a cobbler and farrier first and dragoon later starting st age 14

I’m a descendent of Pocahontas and multiple branches of FFV

Byrd

Rolfe

Bolling

Wade

Hopkins

All my family branches have been in Mississippi as early as 1780s in what became Adams county whilst others after the Dancing Rabbit treaty early 1800s

My gggg grandmother was rumored to be the illegitimate daughter of William Dunbar of. Natchez aristocracy born by his Irish housegirl and “adopted” by my gggg grandpa who had over half a dozen sons and grandsons fight for the CSA

I could write a book on it literally

I’m qualified to speak for Dixie

[DoughtyOne]

I agree with your take on this.

I would also pay attention to his contemporaries in the North before I’d listen to any of these wankers today.

This purge of the South really angers me.

It’s a scrubbing of history, and that isn’t right.

[DiogenesLamp]

I really have mixed feelings over this war. Slavery IMO is unquestionably wrong. But this war is where we lost much in states rights. More was lost with the 17th amendment which transferred power to the parties.

Let me clear your moral qualms. Had the South remained in the Union, Slavery would have persisted into the 20th century. Lincoln repeatedly tried to bribe the south into staying by offering them assurances that slavery would be protected.

Beyond that, the numbers just don't work. To ban slavery would have required a constitutional amendment, and that would require a 3/4ths vote of all the states. With the 11 states that became the confederacy, it would require a Union of 44 states to override their opposition. (Not possible until 1896.)

If you add the five Union slave states to the 11 confederate states, it would require a Union of 64 states to override them, and we still do not have 66 states in the Union.

In other words, the Union would have kept slavery because there was no possible way of winning the legal battle to abolish it.

Therefore the war really wasn't about slavery. What it was about was the potential that the money pile coming into New York would end up in Southern ports.

There was 200 million dollars per year at stake immediately, and with the capital moving to Southern States, there was even greater financial threat to New York (and the Northeaster power barons who still run the United States today) in the possibility that the South would not only build competing factories with that money, but also that they would eventually provide the Western states with goods imported or manufactured in the South, and thereby cut off that source of money and power from the North East too.

The war was about money, and only about money. They created the propaganda that it was about "slavery" because they didn't want people to know the real motives for it. If they knew the real motives, the public would have been against it.

[wardaddy]

You’ve always been reasonable DO and smart and informed

And polite and restrained

Lol....not me sometimes admittedly

[Reily]

They were supposed his personal bodyguard as well as, cooks, musicians, etc.

[DiogenesLamp]

The question is, did these men serve as soldiers in his cavalry unit or attend to him personally.

The article I read said they were actual cavalry. I am thinking now that I should have bookmarked it.

[ml/nj]

Every problem that we endure now with a powerful centralized government was spawned by Lincoln.

I used to ask for and receive invitations to sit in, as an adult, on College classes at a couple of the country's top schools. One such class was a three hour class on the Politics of the Civil War at an Ivy. The professor is and was an author of a book on the topic I had on my shelf. I was invited to participate. I sat in the middle of a horseshoe, seven students to my left, seven to my right.

Long story short, is that I made a LOT of comments during this class. One was that Lincoln destroyed the Constitution bequeathed to us by Madison & Co. After the class, I spoke with the professor for about 20 minutes more. He told me that he could never say the things I did and retain his position and reputation, tenure notwithstanding. I think his strongest disagreement was with my comment about Lincoln. "He had help," the professor said.

ML/NJ

[Pelham]

“My wife’s gg uncle brig gen Barksdale killed Gettysburg”

My g-grandfather’s oldest brother was there with him in the 13th Mississippi. Killed in the same charge through The Peach Orchard. About 22 yrs old.

The family had settled in Lauderdale County after the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit Creek. The log house that they built circa 1840 still stands, that property belongs to some of my cousins.

I had about a dozen ancestors in the Revolutionary War, mostly militia, but only two CSA ancestors that I know of.

My early Jamestown ancestors surely must have known wardaddy’s- Wm Powell and Wm Parker are on the list of ‘Ancient Planters’ so they were there nearly from the start.

“I could write a book on it literally. I’m qualified to speak for Dixie”

Do it.

[Bull Snipe]

Thanks, would like to see the source.

[wardaddy]

I thought you claimed to be above just smears

Prove no blacks fought for the CSA ...that’s your claim despite the contemporary evidence to the contrary

DOODLEDAWG OF FREE REPUBLIC FAME CALLS OUT FREDERICK DOUGLASS AS A LIAR AND LOST CAUSE DEFENDER

SING IT LOUD DOODLE!

(And I’m a lost causer why....cause I won’t bend a knee while you piss your cheap virtue piss on my ancestry)

[Bull Snipe]

In the modern army, yes that is true, but during the CW, that was not true. No one grabbed you out of the company kitchen and stuffed a musket in your hand and told you to fall in. Show me some documentation that that ever happened.

[DoodleDawg]

I thought you claimed to be above just smears

I don't remember claiming that, as I'm sure you've never claimed it either.

Prove no blacks fought for the CSA ...that’s your claim despite the contemporary evidence to the contrary

How do you prove a negative? The greatest evidence that blacks were not recruited as combat troops prior to the spring of 1865 is the fact that there isn't a single mention of them in the Official Record. How would you explain it?

DOODLEDAWG OF FREE REPUBLIC FAME CALLS OUT FREDERICK DOUGLASS AS A LIAR AND LOST CAUSE DEFENDER

Neither. I've no doubt he exaggerated the presence of blacks in the Southern ranks, and for you to call him a "Lost Cause Defender" is just plain stupid.

(And I’m a lost causer why....cause I won’t bend a knee while you piss your cheap virtue piss on my ancestry)

Yes well you justify your bigotry any way you like.