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1 posted on 03/23/2018 11:06:45 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
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To: 100American; Abundy; Albion Wilde; AlwaysFree; AnnaSASsyFR; bayliving; BFM; Bigg Red; ...

Maryland “Freak State” PING!


2 posted on 03/23/2018 11:08:10 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (The US Constitution ....... Invented by geniuses and God .... Administered by morons ......)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

You’re taking me down memory lane.

Very familiar with Viers Mill, Rte. 28, Rockville Pike, etc.

Quite congested. ‘Pod.


3 posted on 03/24/2018 4:16:29 AM PDT by sauropod (I am His and He is mine.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Shnider also suggests that bus rapid transit (BRT) is a good alternative. However, studies of bus rapid transit from other parts of the country show that numbers both for dollars and riders make little sense and will not solve traffic woes. Considering the number of actual riders of a proposed BRT system, it would mean removing a travel lane to accommodate a fraction of that road’s traffic. Think about it: How would taking away a travel lane somehow improve traffic? Only in Montgomery County does this make any sense.

Oh no; it does in Marion county as well! (Indianapolis)

Either that or even BETTER: Light Rail!!!

This boondoggle WILL occur; because certain people want it.

4 posted on 03/24/2018 4:17:38 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Eight happy little bikes!

If we all would just get off of our fat asses and rode one, just THINK of the space in would free up on our roads!!


5 posted on 03/24/2018 4:48:12 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
DC area freepers know the background, but for the out-of-towners who still think it's Marion Barry's Washington and who like to snark at all things DC:

Montgomery County doesn't want to be completely paved over and turned into a massive, gridlocked stretch of suburban sprawl. The only way to do that is to establish and enforce zoning that sets real limits. I'm with the limits to growth people on this one. YMMV. I only wish that other of our suburban counties had been more successful in similar efforts in past years. The developers, of course, are intent on busting open Montgomery. This article is typical of that campaign.

For purposes of transportation planning, one has to look to the larger scale of the combined metropolitan statistical area. From Professor Wikipedia:

Officially, the area is designated by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) as the Washington–Baltimore–Arlington, DC–MD–VA–WV–PA Combined Statistical Area. It is composed primarily of two major metropolitan statistical areas (MSA), the Washington–Arlington–Alexandria, DC–VA–MD–WV MSA and the Baltimore–Columbia–Towson, MD MSA.

In addition, six other smaller urban areas not contiguous to the main urban area but having strong commuting ties with the main area are also included in the metropolitan area.[3] These are: the Hagerstown–Martinsburg, MD–WV MSA, the Chambersburg–Waynesboro, PA MSA, the Winchester, VA–WV MSA, the California–Lexington Park, MD MSA, the Easton, MD micropolitan statistical area (µSA), and the Cambridge, MD µSA.

Some counties such as Caroline and King George County, Virginia are not officially designated by the OMB as members of this metropolitan area, but still consider themselves members anyway.[4][5][6][7][8] This is mostly due to their proximity to the area, the size of their commuter population, and by the influence of local broadcasting stations.

The population of the entire Washington-Baltimore Combined Statistical Area as of the Census Bureau's 2012 Population Estimates is 9,331,587.[9][10][11][12][13][14][15] The most populous city is Washington, DC, with a population of 681,170.[16] The most populous county is Fairfax County, Virginia, with a population exceeding 1.1 million.

For emphasis: the population of this region is 9.3 million. It is the fourth largest metro area in the country, behind New York, LA and Chicago and ahead of San Francisco, Boston, Dallas, Philadelphia and Houston. Note that DC itself comprises less than 10 percent of the population of the metro area associated with it, which an important reason that discussions about the area's urban issues often take on a bizarre tone, as many out-of-towners don't understand the complexion of the area.

The fact is, we are already choking on traffic. We are big enough that simply building more highways to extend the metroplex further into the countryside will merely expand the gridlock. The author of the WaPo article is focused on Montgomery County, and his "solution" is to break the county's limits to growth, build another Potomac River bridge, and expand the endless suburb all the way to Hagerstown.

To take an example that may resonate with some: since Virginia worships asphalt, we are already turning Chancellorsville, the Wilderness and Spotsylvania into urban parks. We will do the same to Antietam and Gettysburg if we're not careful. That's not a hypothetical. I have worked with people who commute into DC from north of Gettysburg, Hagerstown, and Winchester. Most ride a train, but some drive, and probably think they are entitled to a personal interstate highway to speed them along.

Enough. No more highways into DC. We don't have room for the cars we already have. The short term solution is redevelopment of rundown areas nearer the core. This is already happening in DC, where gentrification is on steroids. Intellectually, DC seems to be over the hump. People in the center understand we can't handle more cars. We have no interest in degrading our neighborhoods to accommodate suburban commuters, who should be riding a train or bus (or moving closer in). And we're gentrifying long-distressed areas and shifting the poor to the suburbs, so the NIMBY class warriors in the 'burbs had better start planning for the influx. DC was used for generations as the region's dumping ground, but that era is over.

The politics are still primitive in the outer ring suburbs. These were built as automobile suburbs to begin with, and people are joined umbilically to their cars. Many of them are still trapped mentally in the past, and their first response to every problem is to pour more concrete. But they have now reached a size and density that more roadbuilding is a fool's game. It's not going to work.

From a broader perspective, does anyone here really think it would be a good thing for cities like New York, LA, Chicago, DC (the metro area), etc. to get even bigger? We are insanely big now. The growth should be flowing to smaller cities, and of course, much of it is. I'm not in favor of heavy handed central planning, but when strategic decisions are being made, we should bear this in mind and let it inform incremental decisions along the way. I.e., no new arterial roads into DC. There is simply no way to outbuild the developers, who will put up housing developments faster than anyone can build roads to service them. If you want to live in Hagerstown and commute into DC, ride the blankety-blank train; don't demand that western Montgomery County be paved over so that you can traverse another 40 miles of suburban sprawl on a new expressway.

If you live in upcounty Montgomery and are tired of fighting I-270, move. Washington's affordable housing right now is in far northeast and close-in PG County, both of which are starting to gentrify but which are still relatively affordable. Swap your 2-3 hour, 40 miles commute for a five mile commute (bikeable, btw) or a metro ride, and reclaim your life. Yeah, you might have to put your kids in private school, but the first tuition is probably less than what you're spending on gas and an extra car right now. And when enough of the suburban cowboys move back in, we'll reclaim the schools as well.

6 posted on 03/24/2018 6:18:16 AM PDT by sphinx
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Or could reduce the traffic on the existing roads by moving some federal offices to Jamestown, ND or Salina, KS, etc.


8 posted on 03/24/2018 6:27:33 AM PDT by Glenmore
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks
Build a second Potomac River crossing, this one to connect Montgomery and Loudoun counties and to link up with the Intercounty Connector.

Greatly needed, not just for commuters, but also for people hoping to drive into Virginia or points south through Monkey Canny.

15 posted on 03/24/2018 2:59:43 PM PDT by Albion Wilde (We're even doing the right thing for them. They just don't know it yet. --Donald Trump, CPAC '18)
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