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Russia warns of 'horrible' conflict if Georgia joins NATO
AP via Fox News ^ | August 8th, 2018 | By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV

Posted on 08/08/2018 7:59:31 AM PDT by Mariner

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To: Snickering Hound

“1962 was closer to the Kaiser marching into France than it is to us... “

And an accurate reflection of how seriously the US takes The Monroe Doctrine.


41 posted on 08/08/2018 10:36:38 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner

Russia has been incrementally seizing Georgian land, to the point it occupies 20% of its territory. If Georgia joined NATO, that might short-circuit further Russian expansion, which is presumably why Medvedev is getting all riled up about that possibility. Russia has always considered any move to prevent its territorial expansion to be provocative, and the possible Georgian accession to NATO is no exception.

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-quietly-seizing-territory-in-georgia-10-years-after-the-war-2018-8
[Vice President Mike Pence made similar remarks on a visit to Georgia last year.

“Today, Russia continues to occupy one-fifth of Georgian territory,” Pence said . “So, to be clear — the United States of America strongly condemns Russia’s occupation on Georgia’s soil.” ]


42 posted on 08/08/2018 10:41:32 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (They can have my pitbull when they pry his cold dead jaws off my ass.)
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To: Mariner
Closer to 200, and all MIRV’D. And most mobile.

When they work.

There is no hard currency earned from their ICBM programs unlike Soyuz...for now. Even Soyuz admits SpaceX is eating their lunch.

Hard to keep trained personnel when they can go abroad for much more money.

43 posted on 08/08/2018 10:50:11 AM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: sarge83

[I was a staunch Cold Warrior but the continued expansion of NATO is provocative in nature.]


What is provocative is Russia’s continuing gradual invasion of Georgia, to the point it occupies 20% of the country’s territory.
https://www.rferl.org/a/pence-georgia-montenegro-nato-russia-baltics-visit/28652154.html

What Russia wants or doesn’t want is not our problem. Russia almost 2x the size of the next largest country in the world. It has plenty of breathing room - certainly more room than any other country on earth. The issue is that Russians are about conquer or be conquered. Note that mainland Russia is only 50 miles across the Bering Strait from Alaska. They are not a theoretical threat.


44 posted on 08/08/2018 10:50:58 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (They can have my pitbull when they pry his cold dead jaws off my ass.)
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To: SgtHooper

Continually poking someone for 20+ years isn’t strength, it’s stupidity. Poking then condemning the eventually push back is even more stupid. NATO should have been disbanded when the Warsaw Pact was.


45 posted on 08/08/2018 10:52:34 AM PDT by billakay
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To: Zhang Fei

Do you believe Georgia is in the essential interests of the US?

Is their territorial integrity worth a single US life?

How about a US city?


46 posted on 08/08/2018 10:55:23 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Zhang Fei

That 1/5 is also known as Abkhazia, which from the perspective of Russia is not occupied, but has their own government. The Georgians refuse to recognize the secession, but the reality is that they are independent.


47 posted on 08/08/2018 10:56:07 AM PDT by billakay
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To: Mariner
Do you believe Georgia is in the essential interests of the US?

Is their territorial integrity worth a single US life?

p07

What was the Soviet empire collapsed 30 years ago and it's still crashing.

Either their old territories side with the West or the Chinese...

48 posted on 08/08/2018 11:05:14 AM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: Mariner

Translation: Russia has solid plans for invading and annexing Georgia.


49 posted on 08/08/2018 11:05:28 AM PDT by MeganC (There is nothing feminine about feminism.)
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To: billakay

“Continually poking someone for 20+ years isn’t strength, it’s stupidity. Poking then condemning the eventually push back is even more stupid.”

Agreed. Putin should have accepted Ukrainian and Georgian independence rather than trying to annex them using the age old tactic of claiming persecuted ethnic minorities. Ukraine and Georgia wouldn’t be rushing to join NATO if he simply respected their independence.


50 posted on 08/08/2018 11:06:36 AM PDT by Justa
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To: Zhang Fei

I didn’t say disengage, selling Georgia weapons to defend themselves is absolutely on the table but this is their fight, not ours. You are actively looking for a fight if you keep expanding NATO into former Soviet provinces. Do you want to go to war over Kazakhstan or some other former province wanting in NATO? Giving or selling arms to independent countries to build up their military should be done, but I for one am not sending my son to die in yet another world war in Europe because of Georgia.

And I know they are fifty miles from Alaska do you suggest we invade their western Russia and push them back further from Alaska?

Letting a bully know if you cross this line there will be consequences and backing it up and knocking the hell out of him if he does is one thing. Walking up to a bully and constantly hitting him, taking his lunch money and knocking him around makes you the bully and eventually you will get a response. My question is, does whether or not Georgia is fully independent worth a nuclear exchange?


51 posted on 08/08/2018 11:07:21 AM PDT by sarge83
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To: Mariner

“If NATO admits Georgia, Russia will launch nukes.”

Georgia is a sovereign state and it’s none of Russia’s f***ing business what another sovereign state does. And if they’d launch a nuclear war as a form of a national tantrum then maybe we need to go in and kill Putin and annihilate Russia as a nation before they go nuclear over some other idiotic claim.


52 posted on 08/08/2018 11:09:24 AM PDT by MeganC (There is nothing feminine about feminism.)
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To: Mariner

[Do you believe Georgia is in the essential interests of the US?

Is their territorial integrity worth a single US life?

How about a US city?]


The lesson of WWII is that the Sudetenland, an area the size of Maryland, was an essential firebreak in preventing Germany from burning Europe to the ground. And Germany had only a short history of military expansion, having spent most of its existence subjugated by one foreign power or another. Whereas Russia has been an expansionist power for 700 years, since Dmitry Donskoy evicted the Mongols and began Russia’s rampage through Europe and Asia.

The real question is whether their expansion is worth a single Russian life or a single Russian city. Because it will come to that eventually. Russia is not a band of nutty, incompetent religious fanatics - it’s a world-conquering power with a long record of successful acquisitions. In the long run, we will either stop their expansion or be conquered by them.


53 posted on 08/08/2018 11:18:43 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (They can have my pitbull when they pry his cold dead jaws off my ass.)
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To: Zhang Fei
The real question is whether their expansion is worth a single Russian life or a single Russian city. Because it will come to that eventually. Russia is not a band of nutty, incompetent religious fanatics - it’s a world-conquering power with a long record of successful acquisitions. In the long run, we will either stop their expansion or be conquered by them.

Czarist Russia took Siberia from the Chinese after they lost the Crimean War. Vladivostok actually means 'Eastern Fortress'.

And the Chinese are taking it back. With Putin smiling the entire time.

Russia's population crashed when the Soviet Union did.

Worse, emigration of actually skilled Russians gutted their tech programs (And still does).

And Russian, ummm models, are a fixture across Asia in their red light districts.

54 posted on 08/08/2018 11:25:36 AM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: Attention Surplus Disorder

“This constant expansion of NATO, encroaching on Russian borders with weapons and mutual defense agreements, is an astoundingly insensitive and bad idea.”

It’s not a matter of insensitivity. It is a deliberate prelude to war. The neoconartists and related Soros types WANT a conflict. They think it can be confined to destabilization, targeted violence and ‘regime change’ methods as seen in the Ukraine and Libya.

They’re not very smart. And people who live in glass infrastructures should not throw stones.


55 posted on 08/08/2018 11:31:11 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (If the Sloth were a Honeybadger he'd set some Eagles on the Weasels.)
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To: sarge83

[Letting a bully know if you cross this line there will be consequences and backing it up and knocking the hell out of him if he does is one thing. Walking up to a bully and constantly hitting him, taking his lunch money and knocking him around makes you the bully and eventually you will get a response. My question is, does whether or not Georgia is fully independent worth a nuclear exchange?]


We’re not constantly hitting him. We’ve not entered a single square foot of Russian territory and we have no designs on Russian territory. However, we also believe Russia should have no designs on anybody else’s territory.

Georgia is a sovereign country. It could have chosen to align with Russia. It hasn’t, because it sees Russia as having designs on its territory. And based on the 20% of Georgian territory that is under Russian occupation, I’d suggest that this is a pretty accurate impression. Defensive alliances are not a provocation except to imperialists, which see these alliances as a barrier to their expansion.


56 posted on 08/08/2018 11:31:56 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (They can have my pitbull when they pry his cold dead jaws off my ass.)
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To: Mariner

I cannot understand the goals of the Neoconservatives on this.

They must hate themselves and desire suicide. And they want to take everyone with them.

################

Most of them are chickenhawks. They’ve never served, and probably know few people who did. They think they are immune. They do not desire suicide, but they do delight in murder. “We came, we saw, he died!” *witch cackles*

Neoconartists are the enemy within. They are globalists who make patriotic noise while despoiling weaker nations and peoples.


57 posted on 08/08/2018 11:34:51 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (If the Sloth were a Honeybadger he'd set some Eagles on the Weasels.)
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To: Psalm 144

[It’s not a matter of insensitivity. It is a deliberate prelude to war. ]


You’re saying that NATO will invade Russia? Are you on drugs? Stop buying the Russian lies. To invade Russia, we’d need a military several times its current size and military spending probably 5x the current level, if not more*. The issue isn’t that we want to invade Russia, but that Russia wants to remove any barriers to its continuing territorial expansion.

* WWII took up 50% of our annual economic output, every single year, four years running. We are now spending 3+%, nowhere near enough to sustain any kind of war, apart from plinking terrorists in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan.


58 posted on 08/08/2018 11:38:06 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (They can have my pitbull when they pry his cold dead jaws off my ass.)
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To: Zhang Fei
p07

Give him a break, he's read wayyyy too many Hal Lindsey prophecy books with their constant revisions when they don't pan out.

59 posted on 08/08/2018 11:41:09 AM PDT by Snickering Hound
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To: Zhang Fei

You’re saying that NATO will invade Russia? Are you on drugs?

##################

No. That isn’t what I said. But then the defining earmarks of neoconartists are stupidity and duplicity, and it is impossible to tell where one leaves off and the other begins.


60 posted on 08/08/2018 11:42:38 AM PDT by Psalm 144 (If the Sloth were a Honeybadger he'd set some Eagles on the Weasels.)
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