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To: moonhawk

Much like we are doing here in AZ..or are late in doing.

Whole tree log it, or CTL with the removal of the brush, and then pile the brush and either chip it or burn the brush when conditions are right.

The problem I have with whole tree logging is that you cant do enough fast enough and the damage to the residual stand is bad if you have careless contractors-which is the problem they are having in AZ. In Ore, Ca, Wash, etc, and on steep ground, they have the best handle on how to harvest very steep ground.

With CTL, there is minimal ground disturb’ and the brush is packed out on the forwarders. The brush piles are done neatly for a better more complete burn. Besides that, 8 wheel drive equipment can be run in very soft ground conditions where whole tree requires 4X4 grapple skidders or clam bunk skidders. When it gets soft, rutting is extreme and the job has to be shut down. The point is, it has to be relatively dry to whole tree where as CTL it can be done also in wet conditions. Get my point?

Then, with the equipment made today, with brush mulchers that can be attached onto machinery such as tracked leveling machines, a very large portion of this countries public forests can be made fire proof-as some call it. They can tether machinery now so to climb very steep terrain.

Then, if they want to slash burn it, go ahead. The fuel is ground down onto the ground and it can be controlled. But, there are areas that will have to be managed through controlled burns.

Then, quit closing off access lanes like they are doing. We have closed off several NUMBERED USFS roads these past years.

Turn the management of these forests over to the local and county governments.

Case in point. I worked on the crew that did the Teacup sale in the Coconino south of Flagstaff AZ. Then, they had the fire break out in the Oak Creek Canyon. That fire ran up the hills till it got to the sale and stopped cold. We whole tree logged it, and whole tree logging simulates BURN. The fire crews didnt have enough fuel on that sale to start backfires. But the GD residual stand damage...

Back in the mid 80s, the eco freaks caused the closing down of all the sawmills around that area. So now, there is no market.

And now the people around there live in fear of fire. Believe me, if it ever gets going in Flag, it aint gonna be stopped very easy.

I got back from Ore three weeks ago digging fire breaks. Right now, the fellow I work for part time, is out on the Ferguson fire. He was supposed to be relieved since he has been there since that fire broke out. They wont let him go as the newbies coming in are green and need to be trained. There is more people going to die as a result of that states eviro wacko policy. I also got one friend in NV, and two in northern Cal fighting fires.

But what the hell. Its not them suffering is it now?


17 posted on 08/18/2018 11:37:09 PM PDT by crz
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To: crz

I’m in awe of the people who go to fight these fires. Staggeringly hard, physically demanding work and extreme danger. I don’t know how the crews can remain hopeful when faced with the almost impossible task of extinguishing or controlling the fire.

We visited relatives in north and south Idaho and in Albuquerque when I was a kid in the 50s and 60s. Fires like these sure didn’t seem to be a problem back then. I remember clear blue crystalline summer skies, not hazy, smoke-clouded reddish skies for months on end.

What accounts for the huge increase in BC fires? Did Canada adopt the same environmental policies that the US did? They have continued extensive logging unlike the US, but their fires seem to be even larger than ours.


22 posted on 08/19/2018 5:42:30 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: crz

Obviously controlled burns are cheaper than any of the mechanized clearing, unless there is lumber to sell. The biggest problem in California is most of the burns are in brush that grew rapidly since the 2016 El Nino and its massive rains. That stuff simply has to burn, there’s no other viable (or economic) outcome.


24 posted on 08/19/2018 6:22:00 AM PDT by palmer (...if we do not have strong families and strong values, then we will be weak and we will not survive)
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To: crz

Interesting—thanks. The Sandia Mountains, where I live East of Albuquerque are similarly overgrown and ripe for a devastating fire, with massive drought and beetle kill. It’s why I joined our local VFD shortly after 9/11, worried that those a-holes might set one off on purpose.

Sounds like we’re on the same page. But, what is CTL, please?


26 posted on 08/19/2018 8:29:44 AM PDT by moonhawk (My Basket of Deplorable is Irredeemably mired in the Swamp of Crazy.)
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