Skip to comments.Christians Who Oppose Conversion Therapy Need a Reality Check
Posted on 09/13/2018 7:48:18 AM PDT by fwdude
To be loving does not mean to be gullible. Jesus Christ mentions that we will come across dishonest people, especially among those who have prestige (or are seeking it). We should love people, but that does not mean we should let them take advantage of us. Or fool us. Or trick us.
In that spirit, I want Rosaria Butterfield, Sam Allberry, and Jackie Hill Perry to answer a simple yes-or-no question. No long filibustering paragraphs. No detours into extensive complaints about what other Christians are supposedly doing. No lifeline block-quotes from Augustine. Just yes or no. Here:
Do you agree with the Anglican church's ban on conversion therapy?
Yes or no.
Here's why this question is urgent. Butterfield, Allberry, and Perry are currently superstars in the world of Protestant Christianity, constantly summoned to discuss issues of sexuality in the church. They all had experience with same-sex attraction. They all say they believe in Christ.
And they all attack conversion therapy.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
Leave them alone. Whatever turns you on. Now joining the military to get ones package cut off. That’s different.
No matter how much people pretend there’s a “gay gene” there just isn’t one. Renaming the idea to “born that way” doesn’t make a gay gene appear, either.
Interesting that in the liberal’s viewpoint that “Conversion” is outrageous and must be banned but supporting a “transgender” is the height of being “woke”
Mutilating oneself is “Kwel”
That's a nice sentiment, but it doesn't work in the real world. Liberalism means you have to be as unhappy as they are. And are you really "tolerant" if you and your children are not participating in their "diversity" programs?
And they always want someone else to either pay for the perversion, or pay to fix it.
They went from “gay gene” and “born that way” to “gender is fluid” in about a year, just like they went from “global warming” to “climate change” and from “democracy is good” to “populism is evil” and from “McCain is a grumpy old racist” to “McCain is an American hero.”
I think the bigger issue is letting people decide what is best for themselves and for their children.
If we accept that there's a gene which makes men be attracted to men, women to women, then I can we must accept that there's a gene that makes you attracted to children, animals, etc, etc.
It's learned sexually addictive behavior. Just ask any Muslim.
Americans are a “self-help” people - there’s a program to change your life, for literally every behavior there is. Too fat? drink too much? not as muscular as you like? shy in public? bad with girls? deep in debt?
There are hundreds of programs out there to help you change your behavior.
But you don’t like your urges to have sex with men?? Leftists tell us - NO WAY YOU CAN CHANGE THAT!
Once again, complete leftist hypocrisy.
Banning conversion therapy actually opposes the leftist ideas around transgenderism.
The transgender folks are promoting that you “might” be transgender and as there’s a broad range of sexualities, where you fall in this spectrum can be somewhat fluid.
So you can’t argue, on the one hand, that your sexuality CAN change when it comes to being more “gay” or “transgender” (you just didn’t know it!) and, on the other hand, argue that once “realized” it can’t be changed.
I don’t understand why “born that way” even matters. Stupid people are mostly “born that way”, but society frowns on stupid behavior. I don’t think people are born with a proclivity to have sex with random strangers of the same sex in a public bathroom (very, very common practice among homos), but it’s sick even if they were born that way.
whether they are born this way or not, I agree that you don’t have to take part in degrading behavior.
Goes for heteros, also.
When Paul listed off those who cannot enter the Kingdom he immediately followed it by saying “and such were some of you.”
There are at least two things relative to this topic that this should indicate.
First is that God is bigger than our sin, yet if someone makes out their sin to be so inborn that it becomes the cornerstone of their whole since of self they are essentially demanding not just that they’ve nothing to repent of (as they implicitly, if not explicitly, blame God for their condition) but they are also making their sin out to be bigger than God.
They are, to be blunt, setting up their sin on the throne of their heart and bowing down to it.
In Lewis’ The Great Divorce he used the symbolism of a man chained to a puppet who speaks through the puppet. As the man continues to resist redemption he shrinks and the puppet grows till at last the man crawls up the chain and is consumed by the puppet.
Though it is not an exact fit as metaphor from the book, so it is when people set up a persona based on something that they do and they believe to be their fundamental identity. When we call them to repentance they think we are calling them to give up who they really, really are. They blame God for making them that way if they think it in any way misopportune, or even if they just say so to confront any who would call them to repentance.
Like the puppeteer they may even seem to be consumed by their sin BUT, as I said, God is bigger than their sin and He can break through even the mightiest strongholds that grip the soul.
People can indeed be a “such were you”.
Here I turn to those who oppose efforts to break free of the stongholds in the heart. This is the second point I would raise.
Do they do so because the proposed remedy is too worldly or do they do so because they think that the first part of Paul’s construction is somehow invalid: that those in a “such are you still” category might somehow be saved though unrepentant of that particular sin?
Or, and this would be the almost worst of all, do they somehow agree that homosexuality is inborn, God’s doing in some non-judgment related fashion not covered by Romans 1:18-32?
Worse of all, do they think there is no repentance for homosexuals ... essentially that the sin, if not bigger than God, is all consuming and unrepentable of? If so then do they think Paul was a deciever for saying there even are such were you people? If they think things like these last things I would wonder how have they received the Gospel at all?
Of all of these only, and I do mean only, if they oppose such measures for being too worldly would I have no theological problem with their attitudes.
That said, as a practical measure, recognizing that human beings and our institutions tend to be compromised yet God can still work through them, I would say such an opposition is not always wise or prudent.
I dunno, I think the Apostle Paul give a pretty hearty endorsement of conversion therapy for gays in the book of 1st Corinthians.
I agree with Butterfield...In reality there is no such thing as “conversion therapy” for a christian!!! There is just conversion that is accomplished NOT by counseling sessions but by the power and work of the Holy Spirit.
In reality the sin of homosexuality is NO DIFFERENT in essence than any other sin. As with all other sins it basically is cosmic treason against a Holy God!! One nust realize they are sinners, repent of it and come to Christ by faith realizing He is the only way to God and the ONLY way for forgiveness of sins!! Rom 3:21-28
Once that happens the person, who is converted, walks in newness of life to grow more Christlike and grow in sanctification. So no “therapy” is needed and will NEVER work apart from being truly converted by the Holy Spirit.
Homesexulity like all other sins is a “fruit sin” of 3 main “root sins” of Pride, Selfishness and Unbelief. Unbelief is the root of the other two. So unless unbelief is dealt with no amount of therapy will “work” UNLESS the MAIN ISSUE of Unbelief is dealt with.
So in essence Butterfield is correct. Also unless the Anglican church views the issue as I described, that it is a faith issue (which I doubt) then they are wrong. If they view it as a faith issue then they are correct in “banning it” since a SPIRITUAL NOT MORAL conversion is needed!!!
It's really not possible to NOT leave them alone. How can I not? I'm not physically in their bedrooms.
But when the incessantly inject their poisonous agenda into my life, I have to respond.
This is CHILD RAPE!
Opposing 'Conversion Therapy' is to oppose RAPE THERAPY!
They seek to normalize their behavior to achieve easier access to MOLEST YOUR CHILDREN!
On page 37, the other relevant result relates to men.
The 13th research question addressed, of homosexual men who have been molested, what percentage were molested before self-identification as homosexual men, and what percentage were molested after self-identification as homosexual? Of homosexual men who were molested, 68% were molested before self-identification as homosexual, and 32% were molested after self-identification as homosexual.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q6pDGNQw3I The Left's Push For Pedophile Acceptance
Yes, many people claim to have failed at going from gay to straight, just as many obese people decide that after so much dieting and exercise, they will never lose weight. Jesus Christ shares the powerful message that with faith, hope, and love, such great things do happen. They have happened in my life. Rosaria Butterfield has no place to tell me faith can't make me straight.
The Apostle Paul said faith, hope, and love are the most enduring of all human feelings. Allberry, Butterfield, and Perry suffocate all three. They deny the power of people's faith to heal themselves and live in obedience to God, largely because they assume too much when they predict that people's attempts to change toward heterosexuality will necessarily fail. They stifle people's hope by telling them, falsely, that God will not answer their prayers if they pray for something godly and fair. And they place stumbling blocks before people so they cannot feel love in the way God intended it, including the beauty of love for the opposite sex in all its splendor.
If you are gay you are gay. It’s not like anybody wakes up one day and says “hey I think it would be cool to be gay”. Being gay is a very difficult lifestyle. Nobody would choose it.
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