Saudi Arabia is the home of the terrorist ideology and Saudi backed terrorists operated in conjunction with US-UK-Western and even Israeli support one could argue in Syria for the last seven years.
I think the President is hedging a bit, he did the sword dance with the leaders in Saudi Arabia last year, but here we are.
The Turks say they have audio and video evidence of Khashoggi's murder. He has killed and dismembered with a bone saw we are told.
Turkey versus Saudi Arabia.
Maybe we should sit this one out?
That was quite a post you had last weekend on your blog about Saudi Arabia.
People need to read and understand the problem.
https://nextrushfree.blogspot.com/2018/10/how-long-can-we-israel-uk-us-last.html
So let me see if I have this straight.....
This Kashhoggi guy has been uber critical of the Crowned Prince. He leaves the kingdom fearing for his safety.
Then he goes into a Suadi Arabian Consulate in of all places Turkey (aren’t consulates sovereign territory) and we’re surprised that they grabbed him and killed him on the spot?
I’m sorry to inform you Mr. Kashoggi you’re dead because you were stupid.
The guy was not a US citizen, so not much our concern. That said, we seriously need to decide if Saudi Arabia is friend or foe, then act accordingly. My vote is that they are a clear foe. We should treat them no differently than Iran and North Korea. I also suggest the same for China and a few others. Stop coddling our enemies!
Trump looks at the big picture...would rather use leverage with the Saudis and still give our businesses $150 billion in business than allow Russia and China to spread their own hegemony....might offend some folks’ sensibilities but he has his head screwed on right.
Just look at who's coming out in support of the journalist vs the reform of radical Islam.
There is excellent cooperation between the US, Saudi Arabia as well as Israel contributing to the demise of radicals in the area. Like it or not, the prince is the "good guy" here.
The media wants President Trump to break with Saudi Arabia.
It won't work.
America has "freedom of speech".
Saudi Arabia has "the sword". Maybe that will change in the future. Maybe their radicals won't be so lucky.
The story goes 15 men cut the Journalist in 15 pieces and 15 men carried the pieces out of the embassy.
My questions are,
1) Did they draw straws on who carried what part?
2) Who got the asshole, the new guy?
Read post 21
The lamestreams want to rub Trump’s nose in this incident. I actually heard one of their naboobs going on about how “the president MUST quit doing business with the Saudis”; so this will be the mantra of the upcoming week — the attempt to lead the President about by the nose. They want him on defense.
What is most likely happening as I write: US emissaries are w/ Saudi counterparts trying to decide on a “briar-patch punishment” that will look good to everyone. I.e., do something to them that they wanted done anyway.
I agree with those on this thread who have given voice to the realpolitik here: the new iteration of the royal family over there are the good guys.
Funny how the BBC headline doesn’t match the first sentence of the BBC article.
Punish them by subsidizing them at a slightly lower level? Cut their allowance? I guess that would be a start.
The Turks say they have audio and video evidence of Khashoggi’s murder.
...
How would they have that?
Even the CCTV footage at the article could be manipulated.
Whatever happened to Khashoggi, he was or still is an enemy of Western civilization.
The US has a major presence in the Kingdom, both militarily and economically. The Saudis have committed to purchasing over $100 billion in US military equipment. We have a huge training mission in the Kingdom as well as a significant intelligence operation. The Saudis have worked with Israel to combat the Iranians. They have proven very helpful to the US in many areas unknown to the public.
Turkey is not our friend. Erdogan has been moving Turkey more into the Islamic orbit and away from the many reforms of Ataturk that made Turkey a westernized country. The Turkish parliament prevented the 4th ID from transiting Turkey during the Iraq invasion. Turkey is buying Russian weapons. Erdogan is a tyrant and a friend of the MB. Remember the Turkish bodyguard goons beating up demonstrators in DC.
The Turks hate the Saudis for a number of reasons. And now we have Congress piling on Saudi Arabia trying to force Trump into taking precipitant actions that could damage our bilateral relations. It reminds me of Carter's human rights policies that led to the undermining of the Shah. Our national interests need to come first ahead of some concerns about a WP reporter (non-US citizen) who has his own set of problems.
I don't trust the Turks and Erdogan. Trump should be very wary.
Yes Kashoggi was a critic of the Saudi government.
He was also from previous experience very personally knowledgeable about the Saudi government and the royal family/clan.
He was also opposed to Wahabism but instead was a dedicated member of the Muslim Brotherhood.
The Saudi Royals believe they can contain Wahabism and are modernizing many government approaches to social issues - like women can now drive cars.
But, the Saudi royals are not changing as far as their absolute rule, and they see the Muslim Brotherhood as dedicated opponents of that.
To westerners, the philosophical distance between Wahabism and the Muslim Brotherhood is nil.
In sum, not all dissident Saudis or all Saudi opponents of the Saudi royals absolute rule are true friends of the west in general or the U.S. in particular.
I don’t applaud or support how the Saudis got rid of Kashoogi. I do understand why they did.
The saudis should have been our first target immediately after 9/11.
Copied and pasted from a fellow Treeper at the Conservative Treehouse.
daughnworks247 says:
October 13, 2018 at 11:10 am
Please forgive the length – if not interested in subject, keep scrolling.
I believe we are seeing, in real time, the death of “Muh Russia, and the beginning of “Muh Saudi”.
Several sharp Treepers have posted the recent thread of Patrick Poole’s on Khashoggi, Saffuri, and the international intrigue. Because Treepers strongly influences other groups, and because Poole’s compilation of research would take hours to hash through, I thought it worthwhile to provide my amateur attempt at a summary of details or possible motives into the story of disappearance/murder of Jamal Khashoggi, the alleged Washington Post journalist.
Think of this fight as the Hatfield’s and McCoy’s of the Middle East as well as competing factions of Clintons and Trumps in DC. We seem to have a multi-generational struggle between the radical Islam Saudis and the good Saudis, represented by young Prince Mohammed Bin Salman-MBS, who are trying to open up the country and quash terrorism. In this story, Turkey plays a supporting role and the UK, Iran, Qatar, have bit parts.
We’ve learned that most of the allegations of murder/disappearance of Khashoggi accusing Saudi Arabia are coming from a man named Khaled Saffuri, who approached the Washington Post and David Isikoff with the story. The wild allegations blew up from there.
As the story goes, Jamal Khashoggi entered the Saudi Embassy in Turkey and was never seen again. The Turks claim Khashoggi was murdered and dismembered in the Embassy, they claim a 15 member Saudi hit squad was responsible, they claim they have recordings of his murder from his Apple watch, but no one has yet produced any evidence.
Yes, Jamal Khashoggi is an employee of the Washington Post.
You will remember David Isikoff, reporter for Yahoo, as the guy who was the launderer for Christopher Steele’s dirty Russia Dossier. Isikoff’s Yahoo article (from information leaked by Steele) was used as one of the confirmation sources in the FISA Warrant against Team Trump. Isikoff has also written a book about the Russian probe. His involvement on the left has elevated his status among MSM media.
Who is Jamal Khashoggi?
He comes from a wealthy Saudi family. His grandfather was personal physician to King Saud. He is the nephew of Adnan Khashoggi, a multi-billionaire, the world’s greatest illegal arms dealer, who was involved in Iran Contra. He is also the cousin of Dodi Fayed, who was dating Princess Diana when they were both killed in a car crash in Paris.
Personally, Jamal Khashoggi is a writer, pundit of the Middle East, and no fan of Mohammed Bin Salman (MBS), the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, who wants to modernize Saudi Arabia. MBS recently came to power in Saudi, and many factions sought to wrestle control of the country. Who can forget the Saudi purge of enemies, when they were all imprisoned at the Ritz Carlton?
Who is Khaled Saffuri and why is Saffuri trying to steer the culpability to the Saudi’s, specifically, the young Prince Mohammed Bin Salman (MBS) for the disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi?
Why is the MSM claiming the ‘murder’ of Khashoggi was ordered by MBS?
Grab a cup of coffee and sit back.
Khaled Saffuri has been a major player in Mid-East politics for 30 years. Saffuri was deputy to Abdurahman Alamoudi on an off, for 20 years, connected to multiple terrorists, and always seems to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Alamoudi started the American Muslim Council (AMC)
Alamoudi accepted $1,000,000 from Gaddafi of Libya to recruit dissident Saudis, disgruntled Islam members in London, to assassinate Crown Prince Abdullah (who later became king) of Saudi Arabia on US soil. Alamoudi was sentenced to 23yrs in US Federal Prison. (article linked below)
Alamoudi was a fundraiser for Al-Qaeda (WaPost)
Alamoudi was a registered lobbyist to the Bush Administration on behalf of Gaddafi of Libya (copy of form enclosed)
Alamoudi also developed the Muslim Chaplain program from the US Pentagon during the W Bush Administration (article linked below)
Alamoudi funded and helped Saffuri START the Islamic Free Market Institute in the USA (checks enclosed in the thread at the bottom) in 1999.
Saffuri also received money from the Qatari’s, arch enemy of the House of Saud (article linked)
Alamoudi and Saffuri met with CANDIDATE George W. Bush and Karl Rove, in 2000 (pic included below)
Alamoudi and Saffuri arranged the first IFTAR dinner in the White House at the behest of Saffuri’s best buddy — Hillary Clinton (pics included below).
Kenneth Timmerman did an extensive article on Saffuri’s ties to terrorism. (article reprinted below – highly recommended for background). If we read the article, we learn:
Saffuri has contributed to both GOP and DEM candidates.
Saffuri intervened and tried to steer Bill Clinton to be involved in Bosnia, through a PAC, which was run by Alamoudi, with Saffuri as Treasurer.
Saffuri has taken many Congressmen on trips to the Middle
East.
Saffuri is also close to Sami al-Arian, who was arrested in 2003 for raising money for Palestinian terrorists who killed Americans.
Saffuri and Alamoudi worked with al-Arian all thro
ughout the 1990’s to stop the USA Immigration Naturalization Service from deporting Palestinian Jihad Members
.
Saffuri’s primary objective was to get W.Bush, then President, to agree NOT to use secret information, obtained by our intel, for use in deportation hearings — which was a position adopted by Bush in his final debate with Al Gore. After 9/11, Bush reversed his position.
Saffuri is also close to Barzingi, an Iraqi, with a network of investment companies, financed by wealthy Saudis. Again, the ‘bad’ Saudis, intent on radical terror, which Mohammed Bin Salman, the new Crown Prince, has been fighting so hard.
Back in the early 2000’s, the US Government had a task force to fight Barzingi and his network of companies. One by one, the US Treasury blacklisted each company for supporting Al-Qaeda.
Barzingi’s office was raided in March of 2002 and Alamoudi’s office was also raided at the same time, as part of the same investigation. Alamoudi was an aide to Barzingi in the early 90’s, yet Saffuri knew Barzingi since 1988.
In fact, George Bush, Sr. met with Barzingi and Alamoudi in 1990 and 1991….. and they advised Bush, Sr., on how to deal with Iraq.
No kidding.
Saffuri legally went to work with Alamoudi in 1993 when Saffuri was placed in charge of lobbying the Clintons to intervene in Bosnia on behalf of Muslims. Saffuri claims to distance himself from Alamoudi but the records prove differently and it is clear Alamoudi helped Saffuri start his new ‘Institute’ in 1999.
Same people just a different name of Institute.
Remember, Osama Bin Laden was training Al Qaeda fighters alongside Bosnian Muslims as early as 1989. At the same time, Saffuri was in Bosnia, for 4-5 weeks at a time, as Treasurer, of the PAC (National Muslims for a Better America) to lobby the Clinton White House on behalf of Bosnian Muslims. There were 40 donors to the PAC and half of them have either been arrested or are/were under investigation for terror ties. Saffuri claims not to know anything about ‘terrorism’ and says Alamoudi wrote the checks, but Saffuri was the Treasurer.
The PAC ran from 1993-1998 but the arrests came mostly during the W. Bush Administration. Note that while the PAC ended in 1998, Saffuri’s “Institute” started in 1999, with funding from Alamoudi.
Hey, this is interesting….., Saffuri claims his donors to the PAC were doing good work, according to Timmerman’s piece (enclosed). One donor was working with the Dept of Homeland Security, another was a USAid worker.
Then, the bombshell,…..,
Saffuri says he is invited to sit and meet with FBI Director Mueller every 6 months !!!!
In the final paragraphs of Timmerman’s article on Saffuri’s ties to terrorism, where connections to another 6 other terrorists are included, a familiar name appears…….,
Glen Simpson, who was then working for the WSJ, who now heads Fusion GPS, who created the dirty Russia Dossier, is referenced. Glen Simpson asked Karl Rove if Saffuri was exerting too much influence on the W Bush White House. Karl Rove replied, “No.”
Why is it always the same people involved? Here, in one story, we have Isikoff of Yahoo, WaPost (with mysterious connections to Mueller, and Glen Simpson), being fed a story, by a nefarious Saffuri, to attack/accuse/frame the young Prince Mohammed Bin Salman (MBS), in the death/disappearance of Jamal Khashoggi, the alleged WaPost journalist.
And are we surprised, suddenly, this story is at the forefront of every journalist in DC/NYC?
Does this SOUND familiar to you? Like the Russian collusion narrative?
Being spun into the mainstream while we watch? When Glen Simpson said yesterday, he would plead the 5th if called to testify about the Dossier/Bruce Ohr conflicting testimony?
Are we watching the death of “Muh Russia” and the beginning of “Muh Saudi”?
And this is happening while MBS is trying to weed out the radical Princes and dirty money in his kingdom = read as Saudi Deep State. While MBS is a close friend to the Trump Administration and they are BOTH weeding out Deep State?
Are you smelling a rat? But wait, it gets better. In July, 2004, the Washington Post reported (article enclosed) on the arrest/sentencing of Alamoudi and they KNEW about Saffuri’s ties to the entire nest of terror. Why in the heck would WaPost consider Saffuri a reliable source, in 2018?
The WaPost KNEW about Alamoudi’s plot to assassinate Prince (later King) Abdullah. They know the history and all the connections. Why Saffuri?
And why in the heck would they hire Khashoggi?
Something is rotten in Doha, Medina, and DC.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1050781389489152000.html
I think it’s likely that the Saudi’s did this, but:
1) I don’t trust Turkey at all. They are fully capable of false flag operations, and the coup that allowed Erdogan to consolidate power may well have been one.
2) Sadly, our own intelligence services are so politicized that I don’t fully trust their information as the basis of a major foreign policy shift. The “intercept” that was leaked seemed too convenient by far: the Saudis were plotting to lure the journalist to the embassy but since there was no mention of bodily harm our intelligence agencies were under no obligation to warn him.
It seems to me that Trump’s reaction is about right: wait for indisputable evidence and if that emerges, expel some diplomats and have some hard conversations about the impact of this sort of action on public opinion and diplomatic relations.
Saudi Arabia has been the source of much the Islamic terrorist movement, but the context needs to be understood. Saudi Arabia was on a path to social modernization in the 1970s, but after the Iranian revolution and a takeover of the Grand Mosque by Islamic militants they came to two conclusions: 1) the Islamists were a real threat to the monarchy, 2) the United States could not be counted to intervene to protect an ally against an Islamist uprising.
The elderly Saudi royal family made a bargain with the devil. They gave the Wahabbi clergy power over the general public’s everyday lives and funding to spread their mischief abroad. In return the clergy agreed to overlook the unIslamic ways of the Saudi family kleptocracy.
This has been the root of much of problems with Islamic terrorism over the past decades. The Saudis are certainly to blame, but this is also a direct consequence of Jimmy Carter’s cowardly betrayal of the Shah of Iran.
The Crown Prince is not a benevolent man, but he is attempting to break from the royal family’s decades long alliance with the Wahabbi’s. He is fighting radical Islamists in Yemen. He is allied with the moderate government of Egypt. He is pressuring Qatar to distance itself from radicals. He is standing up to radical regimes in Iran and Turkey. He is working more closely and openly with Israel than any previous Saudi ruler. His corruption crackdown on wealthy Saudis was largely directed against individuals with a history of funding terrorist movements. He has taken a few high profile measures to increase the freedom of women and common citizens by the Wahabbi religious establishment.
There are many competing agendas behind the Crown Prince’s actions, and not all his motives are pure. He is inexperienced and fully capable of making mistakes. But he is attempting all of this in a region that is brutal, corrupt and ruthless. There are many that want him to fail and many that want him dead. He cannot play by the rules of the western media.
The decision Trump faces now is very similar to the decision Carter faced with the Shah of Iran. The media made him out to be a good monster but the Shah was the best friend of the US and the best friend of human rights that was possible in that country at that time. What followed the Shah was far worse, for Iran and the world.
Even with our support, things may go badly for the Crown Prince. But if we abandon him, what follows will be far worse, for the US and the world.
I know that the Turks are Jerks. I’ve met an Armenian or two in my lifetime.
However, even Satan himself tells the truth once in a while.
This is the likely ‘once in a while’.
False Flag. Has anybody seen this evidence yet? How did they get audio and video from the Saudi Embassy, sovereign Saudi Arabian soil? Why would anybody send 15 hit men to take out one individual? Why was it necessary to lure him to the embassy? Why separate private planes, isn’t that kind of obvious? Mr. Trump will have to move very carefully in order to strike without damaging anything.